Add A Stunbreak to Speed of Shadows

[Zex Anthon.8673]

With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Agreed.And they can change FiTG to 30% reduction on Shroud CD.

[Vancho.8750]

Not gona happen necro must suffer everyone gets stun break in adept, the necro has to be grand master https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave .

[ZDragon.3046]

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specificallySpeed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specificallySpeed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.

Have you seen the changes to unstoppable union? It does what speed of shadows does, except it is blatantly better while they are both ADEPT traits. Foot in the grave provides the stun break, and one stack of stability for 3 seconds. It also has to compete with death perception.

I would argue that the new unstoppable union, an ADEPT trait, is a stronger defensive trait that Foot in the grave now, a GRANDMASTER trait.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

While we do need more stunbreaks/stability, they should not go into Soul Reaping. We already have Foot in the Grave for that.Putting more there, while nothing in other lines will make Soul Reaping mandatory and greatly limit build diversity.

Death Magic in imho is a good place to plant an extra stunbreak and/or stability, as it's focused on reducing the abuse from enemies and is pretty much build agnostic, much like Soul Reaping. Not to mention it needs some love.

And on the subject of Foot in the Grave - i think it would be awesome if we had stunbreak as minor grandmaster trait, while Foot itself just adding stability, but 2 stacks of it, not one.

[anduriell.6280]

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specificallySpeed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.

Have you seen the changes to unstoppable union? It does what speed of shadows does, except it is blatantly better while they are both ADEPT traits. Foot in the grave provides the stun break, and one stack of stability for 3 seconds. It also has to compete with death perception.

I would argue that the new unstoppable union, an ADEPT trait, is a stronger defensive trait that Foot in the grave now, a GRANDMASTER trait.

Well is not the same situation. A merged soulbeast lose the pet which we could think of it of a weapon with 2K range and no need for LoS.So IMO you should not compare different classes traits, the dynamics may not be the same.

Although i agree reaper should have access to some stunbreak, and reaper only.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:While we do need more stunbreaks/stability, they should not go into Soul Reaping. We already have Foot in the Grave for that.Putting more there, while nothing in other lines will make Soul Reaping mandatory and greatly limit build diversity.

Death Magic in imho is a good place to plant an extra stunbreak and/or stability, as it's focused on reducing the abuse from enemies and is pretty much build agnostic, much like Soul Reaping. Not to mention it needs some love.

And on the subject of Foot in the Grave - i think it would be awesome if we had stunbreak as minor grandmaster trait, while Foot itself just adding stability, but 2 stacks of it, not one.

foot in the grave should pulse stability much like juggernaut pulses stability for engi. That is what a grandmaster trait should look like.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specificallySpeed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.

Have you seen the changes to unstoppable union? It does what speed of shadows does, except it is blatantly better while they are both ADEPT traits. Foot in the grave provides the stun break, and one stack of stability for 3 seconds. It also has to compete with death perception.

I would argue that the new unstoppable union, an ADEPT trait, is a stronger defensive trait that Foot in the grave now, a GRANDMASTER trait.

Well is not the same situation. A merged soulbeast lose the pet which we could think of it of a weapon with 2K range and no need for LoS.So IMO you should not compare different classes traits, the dynamics may not be the same.

Although i agree reaper should have access to some stunbreak, and reaper only.

Look at the traits for what they are at face value. A 10 second movement impairing condition clear. The only difference is unstoppable union also provides a stunbreak.

If you want to balance a trait based off the classes other abilities then look at the class as a whole. Realistically the soulbeast is not losing much when merging with pet, they gain additional stats and high power offensive and defensive abilities. You could argue necro gains the same when entering shroud, whether the two abilities are equal in strength is not relevant to the trait. What is relevant is the amount of other defensive abilities the class has. Soul beast has far more access to defensive skills as well as stability.

The fact that a class that is already bloated with "free" sustain gets an ADEPT trait that is more powerful than a GRANDMASTER trait on a class known for having very little survivability is laughable. Even if necro received a stunbreak on speed of shadows, it would not be enough to bring them anywhere close to the survivability that soulbeast has.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:-snip-foot in the grave should pulse stability much like juggernaut pulses stability for engi. That is what a grandmaster trait should look like.

Pulsing stab puts you at major risk of being chain feared by other necros. Our lich form is one big example of that. However as long as stunbreak gets moved to grandmaster minor and is not chained to stab it could still be an idea, since you would not risk chain fearing just to be able to stunbreak from cc when entering shroud.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:With the upcoming change to unstoppable union, these two traits essentially do the same thing (removing movement impairing conditions on a 10s CD), except unstoppable union is also a stunbreak.

I think it is only fair that speed of shadows gains a stunbreak to bring it up to par with a similar adept trait. Especially since entering shroud requires lifeforce while beastmode can be entered freely.

No stop the traits dont do the same thing at all

But foot in the grave acts as a stun break for shroud specificallySpeed of shadows is a movement impairment clear which is very very important to necromancer in pvp. Being immobilized, chilled, crippled as a necro is a death sentence in a critical situation.

While i agree the break stun trait in Soul reaping for necromancer should be better there is no sense in making speed of shadows a stunbreak.

Have you seen the changes to unstoppable union? It does what speed of shadows does, except it is blatantly better while they are both ADEPT traits. Foot in the grave provides the stun break, and one stack of stability for 3 seconds. It also has to compete with death perception.

I would argue that the new unstoppable union, an ADEPT trait, is a stronger defensive trait that Foot in the grave now, a GRANDMASTER trait.

Also remember that Soul Beast cost money and there fore its better than a core game trait is. As much as i would love the two to be equal in terms of power there is likely a reason why they are not. Necro has traits all over that dont make sense when you compare them to another professions traits. That said as a sustain based trait you are also crossing from a light armored profession to a medium armored one there are just alot of inconsistencies there.

Like i said the better way to handle this would be to make Foot in the Grave equal in terms of power to death perception. That trait has been under tuned for some years now mean while speed of shadows offers quite a bit of help for non staff users when it comes to being locked down by movement impairing conditions.

Besides to have 2 traits that do the same thing in the same traitline would be a waste of a trait slot. If you want a strong stun break on entering shroud then you should at least go for using the grand master slot so that its not something weak and meaningless.

The other option is hope for a death magic rework with an adept that does something similar as it should be necros best personal sustain or defensive line of traits.

[ZDragon.3046]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Zex Anthon.8673 said:-snip-foot in the grave should pulse stability much like juggernaut pulses stability for engi. That is what a grandmaster trait should look like.

Pulsing stab puts you at major risk of being chain feared by other necros. Our lich form is one big example of that. However as long as stunbreak gets moved to grandmaster minor and is not chained to stab it could still be an idea, since you would not risk chain fearing just to be able to stunbreak from cc when entering shroud.

This is what i was going to say to be honest it would make necro super countable to other necros its a bad ideawhat really needs to happen is simply a break stun , 2 stacks of stab for a slightly longer duration along with a mechanic that triggers when leaving shroud or is active while not in shroud.

The best designed shroud traits are the ones that provide functions both and in and out anet just has not realized this yet.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Vancho.8750" said:Not gona happen necro must suffer everyone gets stun break in adept, the necro has to be grand master https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave .

Can you point out other examples of everyone gets stunbreak in the adept?

Off the top of my head i cant think of more than 1 or 2 at best. Unstoppable union being one of them.If i recall most stun breaks traits are in the master slot ;) and these days some of them dont even break stun anymore.

[Vancho.8750]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Not gona happen necro must suffer everyone gets stun break in adept, the necro has to be grand master

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave

.

Can you point out other examples of everyone gets stunbreak in the adept?

Off the top of my head i cant think of more than 1 or 2 at best. Unstoppable union being one of them.If i recall most stun breaks traits are in the master slot ;) and these days some of them dont even break stun anymore.Well apparently

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

almost every class excluding necro.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Not gona happen necro must suffer everyone gets stun break in adept, the necro has to be grand master

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave

.

Can you point out other examples of everyone gets stunbreak in the adept?

Off the top of my head i cant think of more than 1 or 2 at best. Unstoppable union being one of them.If i recall most stun breaks traits are in the master slot ;) and these days some of them dont even break stun anymore.Well apparently

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

almost every class excluding necro.

Thats not what you said though.You said each one has one in the adpet slot there for necro should have one.... to be blunt thats not true

FactsMost professions do have a passive stun breakMost professiosn that have a passive stun break trait have it usually sitting in the master or grandmaster slotNecromancer use to have a stunbreak passive that triggered at 50% hp. IT was removed along with the patch that culled a lot of passive survival tools.

The trait that necro should have that acts as a passive stun breaker should have always beenhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_DefiancePreviously named Reaper's Protection however because death magic is so weak and tragic it didnt even break your stun, because that would be op to have passive that breaks your stun instantly on necormancer (Sarcasm) I dont know why it didnt likely because like the rest of death magic its very bad for anything other than some extra toughness points.

That said Just because Soul beast has one in the adept slot does not mean speed of shadows needs to be changed to do that.The trait of concern should be Foot in the Grave period. Yes its weak at the moment and thats the reason you should be drawing concern to it instead of trying to add another trait that does the same thing in a lower slot.

[ZDragon.3046]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:And they can change FiTG to 30% reduction on Shroud CD.

This is not a good idea for so many reasons