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Condi Engi is in a bad enough spot right now..


coro.3176

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@Lazze.9870 said:

@Conncept.7638 said:Disagree completely, the major reason condi engi is terrible is because everything on the base class is hybrid damage, we wouldn't have a viable power option either if it weren't for the holoforge.

We need real condi options, but further ruining the scrappers theme by making it hybrid isn't the way to do it.

If it's supposed to be hybrid damage, the power coefficients don't support it at all. Eg. see the power coefficients for all the pistol skills. I'd be happy to run a hybrid power/condi/x build and split the damage, but the skills hit like a wet noodle and aren't worth investing stats into.

Eg. Compare:
  • Engi pistol 1 - Fragmentation Shot - 900 range, effectively 0.8s cast time even though it says 0.5, 147x(0.4Power) damage, plus ~1500 of bleed with max condition damage/duration over 10s+
  • Ranger longbow - Long Range Shot - 1500 range (effectively 1800+), 0.75s cast time, 347x(0.9Power) damage

Why compare it longbow when ranger literally has a 900 range condi weapon with the same exact power coefficient on its auto as the engie pistol?

Because I haven't seen a condi ranger in FOREVER, probably because its weapon attacks are equally bad and it gets most of its value from traps. Also, that ranger auto is close its listed 0.5s cast time. The engi one is listed at 0.5s, but instead takes 0.82s! That's a whole 64% longer than it should be, which seriously hurts its usability and dps.

I picked Longbow because that's what I see most ranger roamers using and I find it to be a good example of a ranged weapon autoattack that is actually valuable and does its job - maybe even too well.

If anything, the 900 range attacks should be much
better
than the 1800 range attacks on longbow to make up for the fact that the user has to close a lot more distance before they are in range.If the pistol auto doesn't line up with the stated cast time, that is something they should obviously fix.

.. and yet, 7 years later.. still slow. sigh..

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Tried adding more power to the build to increase barrier generation, but the coefficients on pistol and other skills really don't support it. You end up with barely any barrier and it's just actively worse than playing Holo.. I mean hell, you're not even using holo for much, just a bit of CC, burn and sustain and it's still better than Scrapper, which used to be a nice neutral utility + defense traitline.

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@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:The solution is not to undo Scrapper nerfs but to bring Core on par. A meaningful F5 (dedicated weapon kit to free up utility slots, an extra stunbreak with stability, you name it) would go a long way in just doing that.

Maybe, but there are a couple major issues:

  • Despite recent efforts at giving elite specs some tradeoffs, the fact remains that what they offer is substantially better than any of the core traitlines in sustain, damage and gameplay mechanics. Engineer is no exception to this. No core traitline provides as much as holo or scrapper do. Even if there was a core traitline good enough to replace them, it wouldn't help the situation because holo and scrapper would just pick that traitline as well and still be much stronger than core.
  • As you suggest, this could maybe be solved by increasing the power of F5. It would have to be a significant buff in order to match the strength of the elite specs though. I know replacing F5 with a kit swap was suggested. I like this option as it'd be kind of like a weaker Photon Forge (kits do way less than PF does), freeing up another utility skill slot which engineer badly needs. Alternatively, the existing F5 skills could be massively buffed, but I'm having trouble imagining just how much they would have to be adjusted to match the power level of the elite specs. Orbital Strike power doubled and cast time halved? Toss Elixir S duration doubled and cooldown halved? I don't see super-buffed F5 skills going over very well with the rest of the player base. Extra stunbreaks and stability are nice, but IMO that would not be enough.
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