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@Ziggityzog.7389 said:They will never fix the issue with the no skill carry build. Conditions flow out of the butts of mirages as they dodge all damage for ages. All is fine here.

As compared to scourge, since you have necro avatar? Scourge is far more oppressive compared to mesmer by a mile. Mesmer is only better solo and only against builds without strong condi clear and stability. Your inability to deal with illusions is a skill problem not a game flow.

I also want to comment on this: > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

This build is actually fine. As one mirage wrote here "just don't press any skills when you get immobed". So take your 25 stacks of bleed, some torment too and enjoy watching your character melting to death. ^^

If there is anything that separate between people in P1 and above and everyone else, it is specifically this. People play PvE thinking they will come in and do a PvE rotation. Then get upset if a skilled enemy interrupts them. Using skills at the right time in the right situation is everything.

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@otto.5684 said:

@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:They will never fix the issue with the no skill carry build. Conditions flow out of the butts of mirages as they dodge all damage for ages. All is fine here.

As compared to scourge, since you have necro avatar? Scourge is far more oppressive compared to mesmer by a mile. Mesmer is only better solo and only against builds without strong condi clear and stability. Your inability to deal with illusions is a skill problem not a game flow.

I play reaper. I'm not into skill less spam builds that have never ending conditions which should be "damage over time" not damage and death in 5 seconds..

Sure it's a "l2p" thing and I just play pvp almost everyday, been here since launch of gw2, and have been legendary rank before. But sure lol

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@Ziggityzog.7389 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:They will never fix the issue with the no skill carry build. Conditions flow out of the butts of mirages as they dodge all damage for ages. All is fine here.

As compared to scourge, since you have necro avatar? Scourge is far more oppressive compared to mesmer by a mile. Mesmer is only better solo and only against builds without strong condi clear and stability. Your inability to deal with illusions is a skill problem not a game flow.

I play reaper. I'm not into skill less spam builds that have never ending conditions which should be "damage over time" not damage and death in 5 seconds..

Sure it's a "l2p" thing and I just play pvp almost everyday, been here since launch of gw2, and have been legendary rank before. But sure lol

To be fair, mirage always had an edge against necro. And reaper in particular is very susceptible to condi damage. But the mirage CI build does not deal that much damage. If you avoid the chaos storms, the mirage is going to have problems for the remainder of the fight against competent opponents.

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I used to have issues with them. I literally asked to spar with a couple, became friends with 1 and learned how to beat them. I got gud by learn to adapt to overcome. I could have either QQ/cried about it on the forums, or...until something happened to them....adapted to become a better fighter. Less QQ, less stress and more laughs as my k/d vs them improved to the point where statistically, fighting was in my favor.

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@Hex.8714 said:bump bump b

That's not a very constructive comment is it? Why do you think mirage needs nerfs?

@dagger dave.5201 said:and the daze mantra is only countered with stab which most classes lack.

Classes with access to stab in viable builds: Ranger, warrior, engineer, scourge, firebrand, weaverClasses w/o access to stab:Thief (hard counters mesmers anyway), mesmer (CI competes with stab trait), rev (does shiro evade remove immob?)

Only 3 classes lack stab, what are you saying?

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Classes with access to stab in viable builds: Ranger, warrior, engineer, scourge, firebrand, weaverClasses w/o access to stab:Thief (hard counters mesmers anyway), mesmer (CI competes with stab trait), rev (does shiro evade remove immob?)

Only 3 classes lack stab, what are you saying?

The amount of stab is ripped from any class with the sheer amount of spammable daze mesmer has, 2x chaos field, daze mantra, pistol 5, diversion.

And of course arcane thievery which any semi competent mesmer will use after stability is applied.

Scourge stabi is pointless as its 1 stack, firebrand needs to access tomes so it can't pressure the mesmer, so again doesn't really help. Engi needs to hit a target so can easily be dodged. Warrior gets it from full counter which lasts 2 seconds. Ranger gets a lot of stabi surr and I don't play weaver so Idk.

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@dagger dave.5201 said:The amount of stab is ripped from any class with the sheer amount of spammable daze mesmer has, 2x chaos field, daze mantra, pistol 5, diversion.And of course arcane thievery which any semi competent mesmer will use after stability is applied.If you have 2 daze field that means you don't run manipulation trait. Arcane Thievery is 25 second cooldown and you need to have LoS.By the way, aegis also counters instant casts.

Scourge stabi is pointless as its 1 stack,Mesmer counters necro on 1v1 anyway.Edit: Mirage can't go out of aoes while dodging because dodge is stationary, heh.

firebrand needs to access tomes so it can't pressure the mesmer, so again doesn't really help.FB can't pressure anybody, a fb's least concern is mirage.Edit: It can also give stab and aegis to teammates, essentially countering CI.

Engi needs to hit a target so can easily be dodged.Corona Burst is 6 sec cd and can hit clones all the time while thievery has 25 second cooldown. Don't forget Elixir U and Elixir X.

Warrior gets it from full counter which lasts 2 seconds.Warrior can remove immob with any leap or rush. Don't forget rampage.

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I used to run a condi mirage (its what got me into mirage...Axe+ torch and Scepter+torch) and I could 2v1, 3v1 for days (brought it to WvW and it was gross). When they initially nerfed the condi mirage a while back, I stopped playing it, got accustomed to a DPS build I made and played that ever since. When Condi mirage made a comeback, I didn't want to go back as it was OP for the little skill that was required (I could still beat them however as I knew most rotations so knew what to look for).

I still believe they need to be toned down. Glad they were nerfed at one poitn tho...I love my lil Cotton Candy Cutie as a DPS Mirage.

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@"BadMed.3846" said:Condi mirage is utterly broken and ridiculously OP. Stop defending it in the name of previous nerfs. They were just not enough and a lot needs to be done to tone down this cheese spec that requires no skill and just macro spams.

In what world would a CI mirage ever need a macro?Secondly, it's far from "utterly broken or ridiculously OP." Like miles from it.

Learn not to spam your skill bar at people, use your dodges for a purpose, and clear the bleed stack, that's literally all you have to do to beat them.

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@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@"BadMed.3846" said:Condi mirage is utterly broken and ridiculously OP. Stop defending it in the name of previous nerfs. They were just not enough and a lot needs to be done to tone down this cheese spec that requires no skill and just macro spams.

In what world would a CI mirage ever need a macro?Secondly, it's far from "utterly broken or ridiculously OP." Like miles from it.

Learn not to spam your skill bar at people, use your dodges for a purpose, and clear the bleed stack, that's literally all you have to do to beat them.

It's beyond a joke and absolutely ridiculously broken. Don't try to justify a broken spec by giving L2P excuses. We've had enough of that. mirage needs some solid nerfs.

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@"LegendaVagyok.9132" said:Exaclty, thank you. Are you unhappy about Mesmer go and try it out, you will be fine since it’s OP and braindead, oh wait... no I guess you will be smashed in 2s.

Learn to play is the hard (sometimes salty) way but definitely rewarding. Mesmers in general are now in a good place, due the recent nerfs (4-5 in row), is it annoying to play against one? Yes, is it OP though? I don’t think so, there are only a few capable Mesmers who could give you a hard time, however it’s not about the class it’s the skill gap. Literally every class has now tons of condi cleanse, and you know [ kite] makes it right :)

No more nerf needed maybe some adjustments, or trade off. Smashing buttons and not knowing your opponent’s skills is like playing blindfolded - crying on forum for Mesmer now is just meh. Why?

I'm a multiclasser in high plat on NA (r2 and r4). In other words, I play ALL classes at this rating. I can say from personal experience, playing as/with/against mesmers for years, that the amount of effort it takes to be effective on this class is disproportionately low in comparison to the effort it takes to play every other class in the game at the same level.

I posted this screenshot on one of my threads where I went 26-0 in unranked during my second time playing berserker power mirage. I also play the CI build and the traditional Dueling/Illusions/Mirage condi build in ranked and they also work extremely well.

There are so many mesmer mains downplaying the strengths of this class. I see them whining on the mesmer forums saying stuff like: we've been nerfed the hardest, can't deal damage, don't have mobility, are worst class in the game etc. etc.

It's ridiculous. I played these so-called "nerfed and unviable" builds a few days ago on stream and farmed players in ranked going 16-1, 9-1, etc. etc. back to back while winning/kiting outnumbered easily because of how much damage/cc/survivability/mobility/utility mesmers have access to. The only matchups a mesmer could ever lose are against s/d thieves that never miss their steals, other mesmers, and/or holosmiths IF the mesmer plays terribly and stays in melee range on the node. Funnily enough, even if they "lose" the fight, the mesmer can just blink away, escape with stealth, cc any counterpressure or attempt to chase, and block/blind/invuln/distort until their cooldowns come back.

The class is literally ez-mode and probably the most overpowered and reliable carry in ranked if you want to completely roll over 99% of the players you come across.

If the links don't work, here they are in order:

  1. https://imgur.com/a/HXmRGKS
  2. https://imgur.com/a/d9vHNHS
  3. https://i.imgur.com/Oo5b1hQ.png?1
  4. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/82223/wow-this-new-patch-is-it-me-or-all-mesmer-builds-are-right-out-owned-underwhelming
  5. https://clips.twitch.tv/TsundereAbstruseDumplings4Head
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@BadMed.3846 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi mirage is utterly broken and ridiculously OP. Stop defending it in the name of previous nerfs. They were just not enough and a lot needs to be done to tone down this cheese spec that requires no skill and just macro spams.

In what world would a CI mirage ever need a macro?Secondly, it's far from "utterly broken or ridiculously OP." Like miles from it.

Learn not to spam your skill bar at people, use your dodges for a purpose, and clear the bleed stack, that's literally all you have to do to beat them.

It's beyond a joke and absolutely ridiculously broken. Don't try to justify a broken spec by giving L2P excuses. We've had enough of that. mirage needs some solid nerfs.

Well then, name a nerf that would actually be intelligent, and not just "Nerf it because I want to." For instance, adding an internal cooldown to Chaotic Interruption would do wonders, and removing the Mirage's ability to dodge while hard CCd would balance everything a bit more. Meanwhile, requesting for nerfs on Daze Mantra (which was nerfed so many times I can't even count it) would be outrageous for any non-CI builds, while removing ambush skills would be brain-dead detrimental to the balance. You don't run macros on Mirage - it's one of the most reactive classes in this game, thus macroing would be detrimental to your personal skill cap.

Your arguments show that you lack knowledge on Mirage, even if you've maybe played it before. Yes, I'm a Mirage main, and I'm super annoyed by CI Condition Interrupt Mirage. As a Power Mirage, I find that its abilities (for power builds) are at least somewhat balanced. Touching CI would be more intelligent than touching how Mirage works, can we agree on that?

I mean, fundamentally, this Elite Specialization is broken because it can dodge while basically doing anything. They'd need to rework how Mirage works in a whole - and before that, they'd need to rework stuff like Scourge and Holosmith to tune down their respective capabilities. And that's not because I find them very oppressive, I personally have a good time as a Power Mirage fighting either of them. Their skill ceiling access though is too easy, in retrospective to each ladder, and they have currently too much impact in the Meta for them to pass after Mirage. Because let's remember that Mirage isn't seeing much play when you get higher than Gold 3.

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@DigiQWill.6378 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi mirage is utterly broken and ridiculously OP. Stop defending it in the name of previous nerfs. They were just not enough and a lot needs to be done to tone down this cheese spec that requires no skill and just macro spams.

In what world would a CI mirage ever need a macro?Secondly, it's far from "utterly broken or ridiculously OP." Like miles from it.

Learn not to spam your skill bar at people, use your dodges for a purpose, and clear the bleed stack, that's literally all you have to do to beat them.

It's beyond a joke and absolutely ridiculously broken. Don't try to justify a broken spec by giving L2P excuses. We've had enough of that. mirage needs some solid nerfs.

Well then, name a nerf that would actually be intelligent, and not just "Nerf it because I want to." For instance, adding an internal cooldown to Chaotic Interruption would do wonders, and removing the Mirage's ability to dodge while hard CCd would balance everything a bit more. Meanwhile, requesting for nerfs on Daze Mantra (which was nerfed so many times I can't even count it) would be outrageous for any non-CI builds, while removing ambush skills would be brain-dead detrimental to the balance. You don't run macros on Mirage - it's one of the most reactive classes in this game, thus macroing would be detrimental to your personal skill cap.

Your arguments show that you lack knowledge on Mirage, even if you've maybe played it before. Yes, I'm a Mirage main, and I'm super annoyed by CI Condition Interrupt Mirage. As a Power Mirage, I find that its abilities (for power builds) are at least somewhat balanced. Touching CI would be more intelligent than touching how Mirage works, can we agree on that?

I mean, fundamentally, this Elite Specialization is broken because it can dodge while basically doing anything. They'd need to rework how Mirage works in a whole - and before that, they'd need to rework stuff like Scourge and Holosmith to tune down their respective capabilities. And that's not because I find them very oppressive, I personally have a good time as a Power Mirage fighting either of them. Their skill ceiling access though is too easy, in retrospective to each ladder, and they have currently too much impact in the Meta for them to pass after Mirage. Because let's remember that Mirage isn't seeing much play when you get higher than Gold 3.

Where top 3 on leaderboards have been Mirage recently you still claim that mirage is not getting much use beyond gold 3. Macros or not, even a bronze player can easily climb the ladder with the broken mirage. Holo and scourge and everything else could do with minor nerfs but mirage needs huge nerfs to make it even acceptable.

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It's the same crap it's always been.

Condi has to much output and what keeps getting nerfed is mesmer's survivability, I've been saying this since season 9.Mirage has less on demand defensive cooldowns than 6/8 of the other classes (and their respective viable elite specs), this includes things like blind and aegis. But even though they keep nerfing the survivability that everyone keeps crying about, people are still dying. It's almost like the issue with condi hasn't changed.

Even back when Mirage had alllll it's defensive options; Power was not overperforming. Gee, I wonder why? Could it be the disparity for how a single burst combo works compared to the more passive nature of condi application, and granting a lot more pressure and damage off of IH?

All nerfing the survivability did was kill power more and more, while condi always found an easy way to adapt because it maintained it's damage and damage application methods. Not to say it wasn't nerfed at all, but even if you take a stack or two off, it still hits like a truck for something you didn't need to set up or land a complicated/fickle/unintuitive combo for.

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@Daishi.6027 said:Even back when Mirage had alllll it's defensive options; Power was not overperforming. Gee, I wonder why?

As far as I remember, mesmer is a hybrid damage profession.

Anyway, there is an important point here: When mirage had good defense, condi was better than power. Today, condi is still better. That can mean two things:1) Condi is op2) Power is weak

However even after axe, illusions line and illusionary ambush got nerfed condi is still the better build. In my honest opinion, we need a big greatsword rework and mh/oh sword buffs.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@Daishi.6027 said:Even back when Mirage had alllll it's defensive options; Power was not overperforming. Gee, I wonder why?

As far as I remember, mesmer is a hybrid damage profession.

Anyway, there is an important point here: When mirage had good defense, condi was better than power. Today, condi is still better. That can mean two things:1) Condi is op2) Power is weak

However even after axe, illusions line and illusionary ambush got nerfed condi is still the better build. In my honest opinion, we need a big greatsword rework and mh/oh sword buffs.

I run a non meta DPS build using axe. Personally the nerf to Axe direct DPS and nerf some of the condi application. How often do you hear (compared to other complaints) that Axe direct DPS is OP? lol

A rework would be interesting imo. No idea if I would like it myself due to certain combos I use with GS and abilities (I dont run 1 shot or any daze abilities), however im not a fan of the 1 shot GS build either....I feel conflicted :p

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@"Lyndina.7984" said:Yeah right. Nerf mesmer more. Not like they just patched chrono out of the game. But here come's the next one that wants to nerf the last remain Elitespec. Just take condi remove if you do pvp.

When I mashed the keyboard on Mirage, a player had both 8 stacks of confusion and 8 stacks of torment on them. To say that is overkill is an understatement. They do too much.. far too much. No other class can pull that off, even the "please continually nerf Scourges into the ground" full on shade bomb can't even dump half that out.

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@BadMed.3846 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi mirage is utterly broken and ridiculously OP. Stop defending it in the name of previous nerfs. They were just not enough and a lot needs to be done to tone down this cheese spec that requires no skill and just macro spams.

In what world would a CI mirage ever need a macro?Secondly, it's far from "utterly broken or ridiculously OP." Like miles from it.

Learn not to spam your skill bar at people, use your dodges for a purpose, and clear the bleed stack, that's literally all you have to do to beat them.

It's beyond a joke and absolutely ridiculously broken. Don't try to justify a broken spec by giving L2P excuses. We've had enough of that. mirage needs some solid nerfs.

Fine, your choice to continue to cry instead of actually getting better at the game. While you are at it, continue to ignore the question I asked about "macro using CI mes."

OMEGALUL

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@Tayga.3192 said:

As far as I remember, mesmer is a hybrid damage profession.

Anyway, there is an important point here: When mirage had good defense, condi was better than power. Today, condi is still better. That can mean two things:1) Condi is op2) Power is weak

However even after axe, illusions line and illusionary ambush got nerfed condi is still the better build. In my honest opinion, we need a big greatsword rework and mh/oh sword buffs.

Regarding swords, they are the ones who kept nerfing and nerfing and nerfing it, actually I made a post about killed traits and skills (maybe weapons should be added), they need to start working on dead/killed traits and skills for all classes, also their balance patches are SLOW, so slow.

By the way, sometimes issues appear because of the stats that they add, talking about wvw mainly, things like trailblaizer, viper, greiving, there was once stats that were added that looked like a joke and they were joke, I think the removed that stats now xD

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@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:Condi mirage is utterly broken and ridiculously OP. Stop defending it in the name of previous nerfs. They were just not enough and a lot needs to be done to tone down this cheese spec that requires no skill and just macro spams.

In what world would a CI mirage ever need a macro?Secondly, it's far from "utterly broken or ridiculously OP." Like miles from it.

Learn not to spam your skill bar at people, use your dodges for a purpose, and clear the bleed stack, that's literally all you have to do to beat them.

It's beyond a joke and absolutely ridiculously broken. Don't try to justify a broken spec by giving L2P excuses. We've had enough of that. mirage needs some solid nerfs.

Fine, your choice to continue to cry instead of actually getting better at the game. While you are at it, continue to ignore the question I asked about "macro using CI mes."

OMEGALUL

Your choice to keep supporting a broken spec as you're not interested in learning to play a fair game.Keep LULing.

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