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Some Suggestions for Renegade all around


Knighthonor.4061

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Renegade Change suggestions:

Profession mechanic:Across the board all these skills need to have their energy reduced to 10 or less.Orders from Above need an additional support effect such as Damage reduction, healing ,Condition removal/conversion, stun break. Righteous Rebel should be baseline here honestly.*Heroic Command need an additional effect, such as Energy regen, to make this a good lead in skill for Warband.


Short Bow:

Damage need improvement all around.Sevenshot has a good concept, but poorly executed due to the action combat mechanics. Works for PvE, but I suggest that the skill here have a chain skill which triggers an AOE at the Arrow's conversion point. Maybe add an optional portal teleport effect to the Chain skill for added mobility in combat.


Legendary Renegade Stance:

First all across the board Energy cost for these Warband skills need to be reduced down to 10 if you want them to stay CC-able and killable.Warband skills need to be instant cast or reduced to 1/4th second.Warband skills need range of cast increased to 900.All Warband need a HP increase if you plan to keep them killable.Soulcleave need to have its upkeep cost reduced greatly if it stay in its nerfed state.Breakrazor's Bastion need to convert Conditions into Boons for allies or increase damage reduction for all damage type.Razorclaw's Rage needs to attack on its own as well, converting boons on enemies into conditions.Razorclaw, Breakrazor, Darkrazor, Icerazor should all have a chain skill element that either relocates them or does something unique.


Traits:

Sudden Reversal should apply to Warband if they should remain CC-able and Killable.Add 1 stack Stability to All for One for all Warband.Vindication has additional effect that this burns away conditions from allies.Lasting Legacy increases Warband HP and damage reduction.*Righteous Rebel baseline. Replaced with something else.

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Agree with pretty much all that was said. Looks like we will have to wait and see what they do for the balance patch. Nice post.

Especially like your suggested changes for the heal. Simply reducing condition damage only prolongs inevitable death to a scourge which vomits out conditions like crazy with no effort. The heal should also be reduced to 5 energy. I think it's the most expensive heal available to Revenants which is sad.

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I agree as well.
Including reducing the heal to 5 energy like exalted suggested.

The only thing I was iffy on was Sudden Reversal. Do you mean when you break stun, it also creates this effect around the warband as well?Also, I think sudden reversal should be a stun break on it's own. When you're CC'd, it should autocast, breaking stuns and knocking enemies down automatically. But it's just a thought.

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agree as well,WHY DO REVENANTS GET THE WEAKEST of all new elite specialisationsanet made engi OP like in HoT , every time they give all cool stuff other classes and let revenants stay behind them allthis is paytolose of your play as revenantWHY THE HELL DID I PAY FOR THIS EXPASIONS

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Overall for rev, I think that base energy should be increased to 55 up from 50.

Not sure where, but outside of Herald, rev has extremely limited access to any boons. This was not an issue before, cuz no one played anything but Herald, and the core condi builds in PvE relied on someone else providing the boons anyway. And that was only raid viable.

Beside that for Renegade:

SB, remove skill 3. It does not hit jack. SB needs to a mobility + evade skill. The damage is redistributed among skills 1, 2 and 4.SB skill 4 needs to be faster. Between the cast and the animation it is too slow.SB skill 1, increase base damage a bit.F1 cost to 10 energy.F2 cost to 20 energy. Faster animation.F3 cost to 10 energy and reduce CD to 15 sec.War band become immune to damage and CC. Their AOE radius might need to be reduced (except the heal).Razorclaw's Rage, cost 20 down from 25. Also provides 1 sec fury to allies per pulse.Icerazor, cost 20 down from 25 and redesigned. Instead of 20 hits single target now it does 5 hits AOE (3 targets) with 1 sec interval. Inflicts one stack of torment and bleeding per hit in addition to the other effects.Darkrazor, cost 25 down from 30. Remove the cast time. It is a CC break... Remove the daze and the damage. Now pulses with protection to allies (1 sec duration) and provides 1 stack of stability to you. CD increased to 15 secs.Wrought-Iron Will trait, movement speed is increased by 33% when endurance is not full.Brutal Momentum trait, scrap the 33% critic chance at full endurance. This is useless outside of raid. Now increased critic chance by 33% when you have vigor.Righteous Rebel, remove the 33% condi damage reduction. Summoning a war band converts a condi on you into a boon.

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Kalla's Fervor should be baseline maxed at 10 stacks, otherwise Lasting Legacy will always be the go to trait across all game modes.

Citadel Orders

Heroic Command – The energy cost goes from 15 to 10.Citadel Bombardment – Increase missiles speed by 33%.

Traits

Wrought-Iron Will – The regeneration goes from 2s. to 4s.

The regeneration uptime is too low in the current iteration, particularly when considering the trait has an icd and is already limited by stamina.

Righteous Rebel – Increase duration of Orders from Above by 75% (instead of 50%), increase the radius by 120 (unchanged), increase the number of targets by 5.

The condition damage reduction on Righteous Rebel feels shoe-horned into the trait because Renegade doesn’t have a lot of ways to deal against conditions, but it kind of makes the trait doing two completely different things at once, first giving more survivability in sPvP/WvW and second improving the support capabilities of Orders from Above, so I moved this to the new Lasting Legacy.With this change Orders from Above would be a great support skill in WvW and Raids, and it gives more possibilities for the Revenant as a whole to share alacrity, therefore makes support Revenant more relevant in Raids to take the place of a second Chrono depending on the team composition.

Lasting Legacy – Incoming condition damage is reduced by 3% for each stack of Kalla's Fervor. In addition Heroic Command grants you 2s. of retaliation.

The extra retaliation allows for a good synergy with the Retribution trait line, and the condition damage reduction should allow for better sustain in sPvP and WvW.

Vindication – Increase the radius (the projectiles landing zone not the missiles’ radius) of Citadel Bombardment by 60.

This trait was fine and therefore almost unchanged, but feels a little bit underwhelming, the extra radius shouldn’t make Citadel Bombardment too strong, but should be just enough to make the difference in sPvP and WvW.

Renegade Stance

I’ll quote myself from another thread.

@Alchimist.4738 said:The thing is Kalla’s skills behave like Wells, they either damage foes or give advantages to allies inside AoEs, and just like Wells they’re easy to deal with, against offensive ones you just have to stay out of them, and against defensive ones you just have to push back your enemies out of them, and Wells on their own work quite well across all game modes, but Kalla’s skills also behave like Illusions in the sense that they have a physical presence, therefore can be cleaved and interrupted, and Illusions work well on their own because they can track the enemy movements, but coupled with the immobility of Wells it just makes for very poor skills across all game modes, because even in PvE your skills can be interrupted.

Kalla’s skills shouldn’t have a physical presence in the world, they shouldn’t have health and shouldn’t be interrupted, they should only behave like Wells, which are strong but also have enough counter play to them.

If the devs don’t want to consider this idea, then Kalla’s skills should at least be summoned with stability lasting the entire duration of the skill, or the two third, and should have increased health to avoid being cleaved too hard in sPvP and WvW.

Razorclaw's Rage – The bleeding damage shared is based on the allies’ own stats.

It currently behaves like Ashes of the Just and other Venoms, so the damage count as yours and scales on your own stats, if it’s great for condition builds, it’s less so for support builds wanting to use Kalla as a legend, so Razorclaw's Rage should work like Sun Spirit. I know it’s a nerf for condition Renegade, but I think it promotes better build diversity overall for the Revenant.

Shortbow

Bloodbane Path – The bleeding duration goes from 7s. to 8s.

Sevenshot – Rework the skill in order to make it work like Poison Volley.

I don’t know how to improve this skill, the issue with it is that it’s way too easy to avoid the point of convergence, but you want the target to be hit in that point of impact because this is there that you’ll get the better of the skill, so I choose this rather doll approach. I just don’t think the skill is practical in its current iteration.

Spiritcrush – You can use it without line of sight. Slow is replaced by chill. Burning duration increased from 2s. to 3s.

You should be able to use that skill in your back while being chased, so without line of sight, the thief’s shortbow can, why not the Renegade’s. The shortbow as a condition weapon fails to synergize with one of the most used condition trait (Abyssal Chill), and this one reason why the shortbow has so little use right now.

Scorchrazor – Burning duration increased from 2s. to 4s.

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Absolutely NO do NOT change razorclaw's rage, that would make it horrible for Condi Revs who raid. If you want more build diversity out of it ask them to have it grant cripple in addition and turn ice razor's field into a chill field with an ICD high enough not to get too crazy with torment.

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@Jthug.9506 said:Absolutely NO do NOT change razorclaw's rage, that would make it horrible for Condi Revs who raid. If you want more build diversity out of it ask them to have it grant cripple in addition and turn ice razor's field into a chill field with an ICD high enough not to get too crazy with torment.

Wait are you serious or sarcasm?

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Jthug.9506 said:Absolutely NO do NOT change razorclaw's rage, that would make it horrible for Condi Revs who raid. If you want more build diversity out of it ask them to have it grant cripple in addition and turn ice razor's field into a chill field with an ICD high enough not to get too crazy with torment.

Wait are you serious or sarcasm?

Serious... It scaling with your stats is one of the most OP mechanics in the game... Especially because your sub will most likely have a chrono and a druid in it.

The OP's suggestion would take Rev's out of the dps meta as fast as they crawled into it in favor of helping support revs? When let's be honest, nobody really even wants a support rev--and if they did, the rev would be camping Ventari since swapping to Kalla would leave a 6 second gap in their alacrity uptime.

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@narcx.3570 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Jthug.9506 said:Absolutely NO do NOT change razorclaw's rage, that would make it horrible for Condi Revs who raid. If you want more build diversity out of it ask them to have it grant cripple in addition and turn ice razor's field into a chill field with an ICD high enough not to get too crazy with torment.

Wait are you serious or sarcasm?

Serious... It scaling with your stats is one of the most OP mechanics in the game... Especially because your sub will most likely have a chrono and a druid in it.

The OP's suggestion would take Rev's out of the dps meta as fast as they crawled into it in favor of helping support revs? When let's be honest, nobody really even wants a support rev--and if they did, the rev would be camping Ventari since swapping to Kalla would leave a 6 second gap in their alacrity uptime.

I agree that scaling Razorclaw off allies’ stats would be a bad move. It’s good for dps spec. Support rev already has great options in Kalla via Breakrazor and Soulcleave, as well as OfA. That said, adding cripple or chill would definitely not increase viability. Such direct synergy with Corruption line would reduce the viability of other options and reduce diversity.

Edit: I want to add that swapping into Kalla is necessary in the optimal Alacrity upkeep rotation. You swap to Kalla, pop OfA, drop Soulcleave so your heals don’t disappear completely, and swap back to Ventari immediately. It ends up being significantly better than simply waiting for your energy to recharge.

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@"Ardent Heretic.8216" said:Edit: I want to add that swapping into Kalla is necessary in the optimal Alacrity upkeep rotation. You swap to Kalla, pop OfA, drop Soulcleave so your heals don’t disappear completely, and swap back to Ventari immediately. It ends up being significantly better than simply waiting for your energy to recharge.

Why would you need to swap to Kalla in order to use Orders from Above? It's your F4 skill available in any stance. If you mean for energy purposes, that means you are still stuck for 10 seconds in the "wrong" legendary stance, and the 4/6 seconds of Alacrity while swapped is not alleviating the hindrance of locking yourself out for that long when you are likely a healer as well, is it? Soulcleave's Summit is a good utility of course, but if your focus is the Alacrity, why not stay in Ventari where you can burst heal and supplement Orders from Above with a couple semi-spread out, Serene Rejuvenation traited, Natural Harmony uses in between the burstier heals? Kalla's stance would almost require the use of both Breakrazor's Bastion and Soulcleave's Summit to compete with a burst heal from Ventari, but you can't really do all three on swapping stances without running out of Gatorade before the ability to swap back to Ventari presents itself. While not always of that much importance, the tablet can also travel- and reach further as a result of that distance.

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@Absconditus.6804 said:

@"Ardent Heretic.8216" said:Edit: I want to add that swapping into Kalla is necessary in the optimal Alacrity upkeep rotation. You swap to Kalla, pop OfA, drop Soulcleave so your heals don’t disappear completely, and swap back to Ventari immediately. It ends up being significantly better than simply waiting for your energy to recharge.

Why would you swap to Kalla in order to use Orders from Above? It's your F4 skill available in any stance. If you mean for energy purposes, that means you are still stuck for 10 seconds in the "wrong" legendary stance, and the 4/6 seconds of Alacrity while swapped is not alleviating the hindrance of locking yourself out for that long.

That's correct. If you are trying to play the role of wand of alacrity, you want to camp ventari, only switching to kalla in the event of very low health.

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@Absconditus.6804 said:

@"Ardent Heretic.8216" said:Edit: I want to add that swapping into Kalla is necessary in the optimal Alacrity upkeep rotation. You swap to Kalla, pop OfA, drop Soulcleave so your heals don’t disappear completely, and swap back to Ventari immediately. It ends up being significantly better than simply waiting for your energy to recharge.

Why would you swap to Kalla in order to use Orders from Above? It's your F4 skill available in any stance. If you mean for energy purposes, that means you are still stuck for 10 seconds in the "wrong" legendary stance, and the 4/6 seconds of Alacrity while swapped is not alleviating the hindrance of locking yourself out for that long.

The energy regeneration ends up being the true limiter. It takes ten seconds to regenerate 50 energy, so you could stay in Ventari for that ten seconds continuing to spam and waiting on regen, or you can swap to Kalla and back to effectively get a free cast of OfA and some extra energy for Soulcleave healing. After ten seconds, you can swap back to Ventari and be at 50 energy, which is all you would have gained from camping.

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@Jthug.9506 said:It's true that energy is the limiter, but I have found that in practice you are better off camping especially if you have to spend time moving the tablet around after switching back.

Oh, I won't disagree. Kalla's burst healing is unreliable at best. I mean you swap if you want to prioritize Alacrity over responsive heals, such as during a burn phase with predictable or limited damage.

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before anyone puts out new suggestion ask yourself which role renegade fulfillcondition - low dmg with sb and no cleanse to handle them thus push to use corruption resistance which got corrupt
power - no dmg and low team buff like heraldsupport - no boons spamming or aoe cleanse or self sustain with protection, stability, cleanse, break stun

after playing wvw, pve, and pvp here my (simple i hope so) suggestions

sb

  1. AA base duration is 5 sec
  2. bloodbane path - increase direct dmg by 25%. 100% projectile finisher and no need targeting
  3. sevenshot - evade 1 sec and swiftness for 10 sec . shots 7 arrow in a cone each strike hits 7 torment stacks (can only hits enemy once ), 100% projectile finisher
  4. spirit crush - instead of slow it should procs 4 stacks of immobilize for 1 sec (or confusion, or cripple) . field duration 5 sec. burning duration 3 sec base. can be cast behind back
  5. scorchrzor - increase direct dmg 100% 100% projectile finisher. can be cast behind back

F skillsatm cost too much do too little. small changes to help your team and self sustain.f2 - aoe stun break, nrg reduce to 10.f3 - increase skill direct dmg by 25%. reduce nrg to 20.f4 - aoe cleanse 1 condition each pulse. reduce nrg to 20

utilitiesatm cost too much to be combine with more skills for huge pressure. also easy to cc and killed fast.

all of them proc with 5 stacks of stability for 1 sec. and have higher hpbreakrazor bastion - reduce nrg to 5razorclaw - reduce nrg to 20, bleeding duration 4 sec base. also increase direct dmg by 10%ice razor - reduce nrg to 20 , proc ice field (can combo with mace blast, sb 100% projectile to proc chill and 2 torment if traited)darkrazor - reduce nrg to 25soulcleave - also empower all npc (including your on for more solo sustainability)

traitswrought iron will - regen and retal duration increase to 5 sec. atm 2 sec is too low. easy to rip off so it wont be huge buffendless enmity - proc at 75%all for one - instead of 4 sec protection it procs 1 stack of protection for 1 sec for each legend duration. also self protection for 4 sec . you can support from range and protection wont easy corrupt or removed from you allies. also self protection if you not standing in the zone or to prolong it for self sustain.heartpiercer - bleeding dmg 33%.sudden reversal - base dmg increase by 100%righteous rebel - each stack decrease condition dmg and duration by 6%.vindication - might duration 4 sec .

this will create 3 builds for any game mode

direct dmg with team support -with devestation, invocation combine with razorclow which buff dmg by 10% you are the best team base dmg buff.condi dmg - with corruption and mallyx you still can handle condi pressure, cleanse for your team and corrupt boons (not like necro) and do good pressure (not buff that much)support - with good condi cleanse, healing skills and dmg mitigation and alacrity spam whats not to like.

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