Entlein.7412 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Hey,I think that after Dagger Training got worse and worse this Trait needs some love. For example it would be a nice when it grants 80 power PER dagger equipped.Also I do not understand why Revealed Training only gives 80/120 Power and not 120/120 like Staff master or Swindlers Equillibrium. Both traits are on the same level but grant more power and have a good extra effect aswell. Revealed training in comparision seems just weak.What are your thoughts about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 only hurt build is condi d/d i think? outside of it, u still take dagger training for power builds in pve, while power builds in pvp will be taking mug anyway AND condi build in pve other than d/x got buffed. imo its good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign.2189 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Yeah, it definitely needs something, but what would it need for you to run it over mug in PvP, and would that be healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entlein.7412 Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 I think that revealed training buff could be nice and I would play that in pvp too. And 80 power per dagger would be nice, and I think with DD and the new SA traitline you could try playing power DD in pvp. Not serious because you loose all mobility that sword gives you but it would be an option in a damage build for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakshow.1809 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 IDK how i feel about it, I feel like its easier to ramp up to 10-16 poison stacks han before, but harder to ramp it up into the higher numbers like 30+ now while in the oder build I could burst 50+ with top gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trianox.3486 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 @Freakshow.1809 said:IDK how i feel about it, I feel like its easier to ramp up to 10-16 poison stacks han before, but harder to ramp it up into the higher numbers like 30+ now while in the oder build I could burst 50+ with top gearYeah, same feeling. I'd just add tho that as you rotate weapons, you're capable of keeping your poison stacks up better than before.SB poison gas, combined with the new poison trait and potent poison is an instant 4 poison stacks, with immediate daze it seems, so it's quite enjoyable combined other traits such as torment on interupt, or disrupting impact, along a with a quickness on interupt rune... It gives a whole new dimension to Short how... and add lotus training/dodge into the field... It's a bit gimmick, but actually works kind of well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The only way I can describe/relate to it is like "gating" in audio engineering - it can hit the threshold fast but it won't go beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.2938 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 @Entlein.7412 said:Hey,I think that after Dagger Training got worse and worse this Trait needs some love. For example it would be a nice when it grants 80 power PER dagger equipped.Also I do not understand why Revealed Training only gives 80/120 Power and not 120/120 like Staff master or Swindlers Equillibrium. Both traits are on the same level but grant more power and have a good extra effect aswell. Revealed training in comparision seems just weak.What are your thoughts about that?Whew 160 power for a dagger dagger build. That whopping 5% or so damage would just be too OP. I mean compare that to the crappy :Forceful GreatswordGain power and a chance to gain might on critical strike. Double these bonuses while wielding a greatsword or spear. Greatsword and spear skills recharge faster.Chance on Critical Strike to Gain Might: 50%Power: +120Recharge Reduced: 20%So lets remake it as Forceful Dagger:Forceful DaggerGain power and a chance to gain might on critical strike. Double these bonuses while wielding a dagger or spear. Initiative recharge is increased while wielding a dagger or spear.Chance on Critical Strike to Gain Might: 50%Power: +120Increase Initiative Recharge: 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 @Straegen.2938 said:@Entlein.7412 said:Hey,I think that after Dagger Training got worse and worse this Trait needs some love. For example it would be a nice when it grants 80 power PER dagger equipped.Also I do not understand why Revealed Training only gives 80/120 Power and not 120/120 like Staff master or Swindlers Equillibrium. Both traits are on the same level but grant more power and have a good extra effect aswell. Revealed training in comparision seems just weak.What are your thoughts about that?Whew 160 power for a dagger dagger build. That whopping 5% or so damage would just be too OP.Oh, you mean like how it used to, and how that made it actually cohesive with other damage modifier sources? That Forceful Dagger change is stupidly overpowered, though. Full stop.All DT needs is marginally better condi support and the +80 extra power per dagger.Hell, they could probably just make it 80 power and condi damage per dagger and it'd be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign.2189 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 @Entlein.7412 said:Hey,I think that after Dagger Training got worse and worse this Trait needs some love. For example it would be a nice when it grants 80 power PER dagger equipped.Sure, it isn't a very good trait right now. What would be a good thing for it to do besides just adding even more power onto a D/D build?Also I do not understand why Revealed Training only gives 80/120 Power and not 120/120 like Staff master or Swindlers Equillibrium.What are your thoughts about that?Probably because power thief is already a high performer in terms on power DPS and they wanted to limit the free power to a 2%, rather than a 3% bonus - DPS thief doesn't get a ton from that slot anyway.I do agree it looks weird and the trait itself isn't that good, but where would you want to shave DPS from the thief kit to put another 40 power on RT? Is the place you chose a good place to shave for the game overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.2938 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 @DeceiverX.8361 said:That Forceful Dagger change is stupidly overpowered, though. Full stop.I was just copying the warriors Greatsword trait and applying the same mechanics to the Dagger trait. How about:Marauders Defense 5s - Evading an attack grants Quickness. Dagger skills that consume initiative cost one less.Quickness (3s): Skills and actions are faster.orScoundrel's Equilibrium 10s - Successfully evading an attack while wielding a dagger recharges Steal. Daggers deal increased damage.Power: +120Additional Power: +60 per daggerRecharge Time Reduced: 50%Both of these traits are essentially reworked versions of other weapon traits available in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 @Straegen.2938 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Forceful Dagger change is stupidly overpowered, though. Full stop.I was just copying the warriors Greatsword trait and applying the same mechanics to the Dagger trait.Giving the same trait to thief's dagger would result in a 40% bigger dps increase on an auto chain than it does on gs, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxHat.1824 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 @Straegen.2938 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Forceful Dagger change is stupidly overpowered, though. Full stop.I was just copying the warriors Greatsword trait and applying the same mechanics to the Dagger trait. How about:Marauders Defense 5s - Evading an attack grants Quickness. Dagger skills that consume initiative cost one less.Quickness (3s): Skills and actions are faster.orScoundrel's Equilibrium 10s - Successfully evading an attack while wielding a dagger recharges Steal. Daggers deal increased damage.Power: +120Additional Power: +60 per daggerRecharge Time Reduced: 50%Both of these traits are essentially reworked versions of other weapon traits available in the game.Lol @ having both scoundrels equilibrium and swindler equilibrium on a s/d thief for a 75% reduction. I miss the glorydays.Quickness on evade though yes please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 @Straegen.2938 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:That Forceful Dagger change is stupidly overpowered, though. Full stop.I was just copying the warriors Greatsword trait and applying the same mechanics to the Dagger trait. How about:Marauders Defense 5s - Evading an attack grants Quickness. Dagger skills that consume initiative cost one less.Quickness (3s): Skills and actions are faster.orScoundrel's Equilibrium 10s - Successfully evading an attack while wielding a dagger recharges Steal. Daggers deal increased damage.Power: +120Additional Power: +60 per daggerRecharge Time Reduced: 50%Both of these traits are essentially reworked versions of other weapon traits available in the game.Makes S/D oppressive and downright busted and even more dominant over the other kits by enabling better FS/LS spam and absurd steal uptime which gets the bonus speed from the quickness while really not doing anything except further buffing D/D for PvE DPS which it doesn't honestly need, and -1 init costs across the board for dagger skills again just makes the kit take even less skill to play/promote spamming the same button while really not addressing its weaknesses.DT doesn't need much. MH Dagger's issues are its skills and not its trait options. DT is just currently a dead trait because it got nerfed and is still competing with one of the best traits in the game/on thief (Mug). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.2938 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I simply don't understand the concerns here. If SoulBeasts can run with a 40% damage multiplier for months on an unblockable attack from long range with a ridiculously fast rotation, why can't Dagger get some OP love instead of constant nerfs. The class needs a few months in the sun instead of being handcuffed, shackled and tortured inside ANets basement.I really just want to see one trait, skill, etc change on the thief that makes me want to build around it. The last several patches have been nerfs or "that looks kinda interesting to sorta try on my already fully functional build". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 @"Straegen.2938" said:I simply don't understand the concerns here. If SoulBeasts can run with a 40% damage multiplier for months on an unblockable attack from long range with a ridiculously fast rotation, why can't Dagger get some OP love instead of constant nerfs. The class needs a few months in the sun instead of being handcuffed, shackled and tortured inside ANets basement.Sorry, but "X was OP for Y time before getting nerfed, so we should get some broken stuff now" is hardly an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxHat.1824 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 @"Straegen.2938" said:I simply don't understand the concerns here. If SoulBeasts can run with a 40% damage multiplier for months on an unblockable attack from long range with a ridiculously fast rotation, why can't Dagger get some OP love instead of constant nerfs. The class needs a few months in the sun instead of being handcuffed, shackled and tortured inside ANets basement.I really just want to see one trait, skill, etc change on the thief that makes me want to build around it. The last several patches have been nerfs or "that looks kinda interesting to sorta try on my already fully functional build".They buff theif too much. Everyone starts playing theif. Outcrys of 'theif op' increase. Theif overnerfed and left for 2 years to rot. Is this what you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureskullz.7536 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 @Entlein.7412 said:Hey,I think that after Dagger Training got worse and worse this Trait needs some love. For example it would be a nice when it grants 80 power PER dagger equipped.Also I do not understand why Revealed Training only gives 80/120 Power and not 120/120 like Staff master or Swindlers Equillibrium. Both traits are on the same level but grant more power and have a good extra effect aswell. Revealed training in comparision seems just weak.What are your thoughts about that?It is a condi trait line I don't really care much for it getting changed if anything it seems to fill its orignal purpose more than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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