LaFurion.3167 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftFootpaws.9134 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFurion.3167 Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 @Hannelore.8153 said:No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi.But as we all know this will not happen. Patch just dropped and they probably won't tweak it given their history. So now enjoy the -300 vitality, full stop. Fun right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 @"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 @Chichimec.9364 said:@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update. Yeah.. thats why its balance patch as it was too tanky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hmm, this is from the update notes - "These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight." My scrapper was already a tank-like character. So refocusing the class on "personal barrier applications" was a deliberate nerf because it was too tanky? Ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 @"Chichimec.9364" said:Hmm, this is from the update notes - "These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight." My scrapper was already a tank-like character. So refocusing the class on "personal barrier applications" was a deliberate nerf because it was too tanky? Ugh!I didn't quite get the tanky explanation either. Seemed a focus on speed and finishers and less on the tanky side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 penalty traits?those are called trade-offs.more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 @Hannelore.8153 said:No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi.I think it needs a minor adjustment. It should absolutely NOT universally be affected by outgoing condition damage AND power damage at the same time. That would make the class, once again, an unstoppable force. They SHOULD keep the -300 vita baseline, move the 20% condition damage reduction baseline, and make two of the grandmasters give you EITHER condi based barrier OR power based barrier. You should never have both at once. That would be insanely broken on any grieving or viper setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruufio.1496 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 @Hannelore.8153 said:No, I like them, they make taking an elite and gaining the power it brings to be a risk instead of free candy.The barrier is just a little weak and needs to be affected by outgoing condi.And what power are you talking about that it brings? Scrapper does not bring anything to the table now except for superspeed. Why would anyone equip scrapper instead of another traitline? You could equip tools instead and get a passive stunbreak with superspeed on gadgets/toolkit swap. Scrapper doesn't do anything now. It can't even rez/finisher properly anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 My hope is that, after Anet implements all of these tradeoffs, that they'll buff the classes that they introduced massive changes to. I.E. buffing chronophantasm back to previous levels.Though that is a pipedream at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnarrant.9714 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 I agree it is a penalty trait and should not exist. There are plenty of other ways to create trade-offs. Scrapper was one of the few elite specs I actually liked, and it is now ruined for me. I've always been frustrated that elite specs seemed forced on us because of their superiority, so I am not at all opposed to balancing them with core builds, but putting a massive negative stat hit in like that is too hamfisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I don't know...I haven't really noticed a difference honestly. I'm still hard to kill, and usually one of the last ones standing in fights we get wiped on.shrugs shoulders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monotony.4931 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I hope they stick to their current approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 @Odinens.5920 said:I don't know...I haven't really noticed a difference honestly. I'm still hard to kill, and usually one of the last ones standing in fights we get wiped on.shrugs shouldersTested with my condi scrapper versus my power scrapper and the power one can achieve a barrier that equates to the loss in vit but the condi one does not. So my impression is they are saying scrapper should be power. For the power builds it's a ok fit but for the condi is feels more of a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgerrule.8739 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Every class needs something their good at and something they’re not so good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Meh since Elites are stronger than core, trade-offs are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 @sokeenoppa.5384 said:@Chichimec.9364 said:@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update. Yeah.. thats why its balance patch as it was too tanky.In the very same patch they said they wanted to make it more tanky, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I find them interesting. Not only do they allow for some interesting mechanics to be added but it essentially allows Anet to change a spec from its base type of adventurer , scholar , and soldier. I know there have been topics around it in the past about elite specs having different base HP it being a different armour weight This is kind of a way of achieving that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreams.3128 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I still drag two people off of point to come chase me and now I have damage. I say this is a win I am still pumping 5k barrier, but now I have much more cc, longer cc chains, and damage.I see nothing wrong with this for me, as a scrapper main, in the slightest. It made scrapper WAY more interesting and gets people off of scrapper that were never dedicated to it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury ranique.2170 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I think a good trade off is a very welcome thing. I main Holosmith and welcome the Holoforge Overheated. It forces me to plan carefully to not be out of the belt skills when you need them. So in itself a tradeoff (or a penalty as you call it) is a good thing. It depends however on the size of the penalty and the benefit from the main effect. Balance is needed, which brings me to the core. Calling a specific action when balancing bad is not the correct way to go. Eventually it is wether or not the balance is fair and in balance. In my opinion this is a perfection that will never be reached, but the current tradeoffs sound reasonable fair to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodokuna Akuma.9570 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 @Astralporing.1957 said:@sokeenoppa.5384 said:@Chichimec.9364 said:@"LaFurion.3167" said:I sincerely hope that arena net stays away from unavoidable minor traits that nerf your class. It's not fun.Daredevil having 600 range steal was bad. Now engineer scrapper, a spec that was meant to be a tanky bruiser has -300 vitality just for equipping the elite spec.Its just not good design. Period. Please change this... scrappers really got gutted..... stay away from these unavoidable nerf traits please.Agreed. My scrapper was a lot tankier before the "balance" update. Yeah.. thats why its balance patch as it was too tanky.In the very same patch they said they wanted to make it more tanky, though.No they did not. They said, and I quote "These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight."If you do not understand what that means, in laymans terms it means they aim to shift how the scrapper tanks and gains its survivability. With the intent for a scrapper to instead tank through barrier application to increase sustainability.Otherwise known as they dont want to make it more tanky but instead change HOW it can tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irreverent.3594 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Penalty trait is just lazy design.All anet achieved is that my Scrapper is now worse at berry gathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunki.3916 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 While I agree that pure -stat traits are lazy as fuck, having a clever penalty is a good thing imho.Weaver as an example gets increased cd on attunments not switchimg to and from and loses direct access to the third slots skill. That's very clever design and is a real penalty at times, but you get good stuff for it.Tempest can overload, but by using that mechanic he gets a big cd on that attunment so it's risky to switch out as you cant get back fast.Both penalties are tied to the benefit in thw first place.-300hp on the other side........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Sometimes when you want to add something to the class (which especs often do), you have to take something away so it won't be a striaght upgrade of the core. Which is powercreep. Which actually would be a bad design despite of you suggesting otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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