what condi builds nowa days?

rowdy.5107 · August 8, 2019

For condi I recommend D/D. Ive been a condi thief for over a year now and ive found that there is really nothing out there that can beat you in a 1v1 situation. Even in a 1v2 situation the odds are, you are gonna walk away with the cap and +10 points for your team. If any type of thief is unfortunate enough to run into you on a point. 9 times out of 10, hes going to be insta-popped. The only profession you need to worry about is Guard. But with a little bit of patience and skill. you should be able to take them out with ease as well.

H a z Z y.1762 · August 13, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:Leeching venoms was kind of disappointing seeing how I didn't really want or need to stay in stealth for extended periods of time.

Shadow's rejuvenation (SA tree) is also disappointing for the same reason and the other two options aren't that great for condi thief. I may switch SA to Acro, but losing the stealth bonuses of SA is a tough trade off.

EDIT: Rending Shade isn't too shabs actually.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · August 13, 2019

@H a z Z y.1762 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Leeching venoms was kind of disappointing seeing how I didn't really want or need to stay in stealth for extended periods of time.

Shadow's rejuvenation (SA tree) is also disappointing for the same reason and the other two options aren't that great for condi thief. I may switch SA to Acro, but losing the stealth bonuses of SA is a tough trade off.

EDIT: Rending Shade isn't too shabs actually.

Yeah, there's no reason to stay longer in stealth especially when you can trait for Flickering Shadows. The only reason S.Rejuv was good was due to 33% damage reduction while in stealth trait. Now that's gone, S.Rejuv is useless.

The added life siphon to Cloaked is really good for P/D giving the build more sustain. Not much but it's better than other GM choice.

babazhook.6805 · August 13, 2019

@H a z Z y.1762 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Leeching venoms was kind of disappointing seeing how I didn't really want or need to stay in stealth for extended periods of time.

Shadow's rejuvenation (SA tree) is also disappointing for the same reason and the other two options aren't that great for condi thief. I may switch SA to Acro, but losing the stealth bonuses of SA is a tough trade off.

EDIT: Rending Shade isn't too shabs actually.

SA is fine in a p/d condition build . It does not work with d/d. Condition thief takes lower trait on deceptions and one of floickering shadows or shadows savior. I am not sure what any other traitline would add to a Condition P/d build other then DA/SA and one of TR or DE. (De allows for payback and easy access to sneak attack with tha added torment. TR adds the added INI , uncatchable and confusion.

Leeching venoms I see no reason to take at all.

rowdy.5107 · August 21, 2019

well nobody uses D/P anymore. sometimes you see P/P. Now with all the new changes to thief, most people play D/D, staff or S/D. learn one of those 3 and you should be ok.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · August 25, 2019

So both Saerni and Babazhook have said in the past (either to me directly or generally) that hybrid thief is good, I've not really tried it properly until this week tho. I've been messing with full grieving DE with thorns runes and that's been a lot of fun. Previously I'd written the build off because 12k health on a DoT spec seems a bit silly, but I figured that getting one shot with 16-17k health is no different to getting one shot with 12k health, and the damage when you go all in is really worth it. Smoke screen also solves a lot of problems for the build, being a source of stealth and a great defensive skill.

Rifle can build full malice from a safe range while also applying 15-18 stacks of poison (thorn runes, energy and blight on rifle) and critting for around 3k a shot, and P/D makes for a great burst from stealth. I actually like leeching venoms a lot more than I thought I would too, it makes P/D sneak attacks with full malice very, very meaty, potentially applying 5 bleed, 5 poison and 5 torment just from the sneak attack.

Basic play would be to camp stealth on rifle to build full venom stacks, mark a target, build malice with spotter's shot, swap to P/D when you get M7 proc for 15 might total (doom and battle sigils on P/D currently), sneak attack, shadow strike, repeater. I've had shadow strike hit for as high as 9k power damage between the two hits alone (poor scourge :P), before the power damage from sneak attack and repeater and the 4-5k condi tick. Sometimes not bothering with malice and just marking on rifle, swapping to P/D and sneak attacking is better, if you do it close range for the fear from rending shade. Ambushing makes it more likely they have no boons.

It's extremely glassy, so you have to be very careful about when you swap to P/D as doing it at the wrong time means death, and about not getting revealed, but it is effective. Thanks to Saerni and Babazhook for the advice in forums, whether aimed at me or not :)

saerni.2584 · August 25, 2019

@Jugglemonkey.8741

Glad you are enjoying it :)

You can be less glassy (around 16k HP) with Carrion armor/weapons and Grieving trinkets.

Edit:

I’ve been working to get some gameplay recorded but Shadowplay isn’t recording any audio for some strange reason. I’ll probably have to reinstall the GeForce software or just go with the clips without sound.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · August 25, 2019

@saerni.2584 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741
Glad you are enjoying it :)
You can be less glassy (around 16k HP) with Carrion armor/weapons and Grieving trinkets.
Edit:
I’ve been working to get some gameplay recorded but Shadowplay isn’t recording any audio for some strange reason. I’ll probably have to reinstall the GeForce software or just go with the clips without sound.

Nice, that would be good to see :) you could always set it to music, I do like hearing the sounds from the game though personally.

I originally was using some carrion, I'm a bit of a critical hit fiend hence my main's char name in my sig (made a charr engi called Kit da Kittengineer years ago and the name stuck) and deadeye needs a good amount of crit chance to build malice nicely so I swapped it out haha. It's pretty funny being able to hit 4k condi ticks along with 10k death's judgements, I might try swapping some stuff around later and see if I can't get more health without losing the damage.

babazhook.6805 · August 26, 2019

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@saerni.2584 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741
Glad you are enjoying it :)
You can be less glassy (around 16k HP) with Carrion armor/weapons and Grieving trinkets.
Edit:
I’ve been working to get some gameplay recorded but Shadowplay isn’t recording any audio for some strange reason. I’ll probably have to reinstall the GeForce software or just go with the clips without sound.

Nice, that would be good to see :) you could always set it to music, I do like hearing the sounds from the game though personally.

I originally was using some carrion, I'm a bit of a critical hit fiend hence my main's char name in my sig (made a charr engi called Kit da Kittengineer years ago and the name stuck) and deadeye needs a good amount of crit chance to build malice nicely so I swapped it out haha. It's pretty funny being able to hit 4k condi ticks along with 10k death's judgements, I might try swapping some stuff around later and see if I can't get more health without losing the damage.

If your are in Rifle with the DE in a hybrid just remember you can do with a lot less precision then the norm if you trait into CS and take hidden killer. I tend to find if you use one of the runes or the armor for a little vitality you will be fine. You do not have to have both. IE Grieving in Thief Runes for Hybrid and make sure you flank attack then use some carrion in the armor.

That all said with recent changes it hard to take CS Over DA in a hybrid now. That deadly ambition is good in such a build. (DA/DE/SA)

saerni.2584 · August 26, 2019

@babazhook.6805

Exactly. DA-SA-DE is better than using CS mainly because the poison application is now more versatile. It’s tough though because you lose easy Fury for 20% less crit rate. Definitely a trade off.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · August 26, 2019

@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@saerni.2584 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741
Glad you are enjoying it :)
You can be less glassy (around 16k HP) with Carrion armor/weapons and Grieving trinkets.
Edit:
I’ve been working to get some gameplay recorded but Shadowplay isn’t recording any audio for some strange reason. I’ll probably have to reinstall the GeForce software or just go with the clips without sound.

Nice, that would be good to see :) you could always set it to music, I do like hearing the sounds from the game though personally.

I originally was using some carrion, I'm a bit of a critical hit fiend hence my main's char name in my sig (made a charr engi called Kit da Kittengineer years ago and the name stuck) and deadeye needs a good amount of crit chance to build malice nicely so I swapped it out haha. It's pretty funny being able to hit 4k condi ticks along with 10k death's judgements, I might try swapping some stuff around later and see if I can't get more health without losing the damage.

If your are in Rifle with the DE in a hybrid just remember you can do with a lot less precision then the norm if you trait into CS and take hidden killer. I tend to find if you use one of the runes or the armor for a little vitality you will be fine. You do not have to have both. IE Grieving in Thief Runes for Hybrid and make sure you flank attack then use some carrion in the armor.

That all said with recent changes it hard to take CS Over DA in a hybrid now. That deadly ambition is good in such a build. (DA/DE/SA)

Yeah, I use SA/CS/DE when capping towers etc or when going for one shots, though I personally like running marauders when I do that so I can take advantage of the other two grandmaster traits besides hidden killer. When I say high crit I mean I build for 85-90% crit chance with fury on pure power, 70% with fury is sufficient for building malice but I'd rather push to make sure death's judgement consistently crits if I can. It's hard enough just to land DJ against some enemies, so consistency of crits is worth more to me than pushing for a few percent more damage on each shot. And yeah, between the poison from mark and the new poison traits DA is irreplaceable for hybrid.

What I might try doing is dropping some power and condi damage for some health, and taking aristocracy over thorns to make it up through might stacks on weakness application. Might be too hefty a drop tho, particularly to poison duration.

babazhook.6805 · August 26, 2019

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@saerni.2584 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741
Glad you are enjoying it :)
You can be less glassy (around 16k HP) with Carrion armor/weapons and Grieving trinkets.
Edit:
I’ve been working to get some gameplay recorded but Shadowplay isn’t recording any audio for some strange reason. I’ll probably have to reinstall the GeForce software or just go with the clips without sound.

Nice, that would be good to see :) you could always set it to music, I do like hearing the sounds from the game though personally.

I originally was using some carrion, I'm a bit of a critical hit fiend hence my main's char name in my sig (made a charr engi called Kit da Kittengineer years ago and the name stuck) and deadeye needs a good amount of crit chance to build malice nicely so I swapped it out haha. It's pretty funny being able to hit 4k condi ticks along with 10k death's judgements, I might try swapping some stuff around later and see if I can't get more health without losing the damage.

If your are in Rifle with the DE in a hybrid just remember you can do with a lot less precision then the norm if you trait into CS and take hidden killer. I tend to find if you use one of the runes or the armor for a little vitality you will be fine. You do not have to have both. IE Grieving in Thief Runes for Hybrid and make sure you flank attack then use some carrion in the armor.

That all said with recent changes it hard to take CS Over DA in a hybrid now. That deadly ambition is good in such a build. (DA/DE/SA)

Yeah, I use SA/CS/DE when capping towers etc or when going for one shots, though I personally like running marauders when I do that so I can take advantage of the other two grandmaster traits besides hidden killer. When I say high crit I mean I build for 85-90% crit chance with fury on pure power, 70% with fury is sufficient for building malice but I'd rather push to make sure death's judgement consistently crits if I can. It's hard enough just to land DJ against some enemies, so consistency of crits is worth more to me than pushing for a few percent more damage on each shot. And yeah, between the poison from mark and the new poison traits DA is irreplaceable for hybrid.

What I might try doing is dropping some power and condi damage for some health, and taking aristocracy over thorns to make it up through might stacks on weakness application. Might be too hefty a drop tho, particularly to poison duration.

Personally I would not worry too much about the duration of the poison. It just more important to reapply. Aristocrat runes are great in hybrid as the might helps both facets of your damage. If you get those poison ticks to tick harder for their lower duration, damage is more consistent than a longer duration of poison that gets cleansed before it runs its course.

Now one problem is sources of weakness in Rifle. I used Aristocrat in a DrD build because you get the added weakness out of weakening strikes. I am not sure the Steal plus deadly ambition sources linked to Lotus poison will generate enough stacks given that Lotus poison cool down. Even the odds + the Lotus poison might generate enough dependent on number of stealth attacks you make but then you have to weigh that against revealed training.

Lyssa might be an interesting choice.

Jugglemonkey.8741 · August 26, 2019

@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@babazhook.6805 said:
@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
@saerni.2584 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741
Glad you are enjoying it :)
You can be less glassy (around 16k HP) with Carrion armor/weapons and Grieving trinkets.
Edit:
I’ve been working to get some gameplay recorded but Shadowplay isn’t recording any audio for some strange reason. I’ll probably have to reinstall the GeForce software or just go with the clips without sound.