Joined forum to emphasize frustration against Mesmer

[Squirrel.2370]

Just did yet another 5v5 where the Mesmer completely carried the enemy team. It wasn't even close. I know anecdotal occurrences aren't stats, but this happens ALMOST EVERY GAME. WHAT IS WRONG with this character design? I'm so unhappy with how overpowered Mesmer is right now I'm actually considering quitting pvp all-together.After losing or winning a few in a row, both teams getting carried by Mesmers (and some holo's), I queued into a game where enemy had a mesmer and we didn't. We lost that game 80-500. One time the mesmer 1v3'd our team for a good 20 seconds of combat... somehow remaining almost untouched by our constant abilities, and then downed all of us.I'm super upset about this. There is no shadow of a doubt in my mind that Mesmer is busted op and needs some drastic changes. Again. Whatever it takes to bring this class down to mortal again.

[Tayga.3192]

If you can't beat them, join them.

Many people have given a million tips for fighting mesmers. I can't say anything but "It's a L2P issue".

[alain.1659]

As I have just relized that people lack this knowledge which has been a common thing (at least for me), I want to give you a good tip. Please use the previous enemy function in the game to deal with mesmers better. Rest is a combination of l2p and imbalancedness of condi mirage.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

If you wipe 500-80, it isn't the Mesmer's fault.If a Mesmer is 1v3ing you and manages to win, it -definitely- isn't the Mesmer's fault.

There's a difference between overpowered class mechanics and being outplayed. It isnt the mesmers fault three of your teammates fought one guy for 20 seconds and then managed to wipe vs that mesmer. That's extremely poor team play. the remaining two players who were elsewhere must have been eaten alive because of that, and that's why you guys got steamrolled.

You can be frustrated, but that wasn't an example of being carried by a class. It takes extreme player skill coupled with a novice team strategy on the opposing side to kite 3 people around for a third of a minute and then win.

If you think something on mesmer is busted, specify exactly what it is. Saying "it carried a team because we 3v1d it and all died", especially now, says more about your team than about the mesmer.

@alain.1659 said:As I have just relized that people lack this knowledge which has been a common thing (at least for me), I want to give you a good tip. Please use the previous enemy function in the game to deal with mesmers better. Rest is a combination of l2p and imbalancedness of condi mirage.

That function doesn't work properly. Previous enemy will give you an arbitrary target somewhere in your line of sight if you havent willfully deselected the target yourself. stealth and drop target cannot be mitigated by this.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Everyone has there own reasons for hating mesmers. From the kind of skills they have to there play style they use. But the most common defense mesmers players have is l2p....why is that? You dont usually see people say l2p as much as they do about mesmer.Maybe just maybe, how the class was designed is alittle op compaired to alot of other classes.....now im not saying they can use all these at any given time but they have access to, stealth, invuln, detargeting, teleports, skills that evade, and blocks.Why should any class have the ability to have a counter for everything. I say take away there teleports completely. No one should have that kind of mobility.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I say take away there teleports completely.

No thanks. Mesmers are already slow and have very little movement skills. If it wasnt for their blinks/portal theyd be one of the least mobile classes, second only to necro. And they nerfed portal.

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Everyone has there own reasons for hating mesmers. From the kind of stills they have to there play style they use. But the most common defense mesmers players have is l2p....why is that?

Probably because people 3v1 them and die. Mesmers are light armor. They have some toxic mechanics sure, but not anything that can allow them to 3v1 and win outside of excessive skill disparity.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Mirage is a horribly designed class for a competitive game. People continue to ignore the ridiculously powerful design and instead cry about nerfed damage and say l2p. Mirage cloak is insane how much of an advantage it is over a regular dodge. Spamming clones and visual effects constantly hide animations you need to watch for like heal or pistol cc. Target breaks, invis, invuln, cc spam, condi spam, multiple teleports, evading while attacking or stunned, all in 1 class is just a sign of laughable design, yet people seem to think that clicking on the real mes is all you need to do to win. The number of nerfs mirage has had is ridiculous, yet it still is one of the most viable classes. This should tell people that the class is broken by design, and saying l2p only demonstrates their ignorance of this game.

Other classes have their own appalling design decisions, like fb and scourge aoe spam and overtuned boons, healing, corrupts, etc. But the issue behind this terrible balance comes down to the fact that gw2 has been designed to be a pve game. Any attempt at fair, engaging competitive play will be met with major disappointment. If you just want to play casually, dont care to win or lose then you can probably still enjoy it, otherwise you are probably better off quitting. I finally did and its been a relief not having to tolerate this broken game anymore.

[Tayga.3192]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Everyone has there own reasons for hating mesmers. From the kind of skills they have to there play style they use.Mesmer punishes bad play, that hasn't changed since GW1.But the most common defense mesmers players have is l2p....why is that? You dont usually see people say l2p as much as they do about mesmer.Because mesmer punishes bad play, that hasn't changed since GW1.Maybe just maybe, how the class was designed is alittle op compaired to alot of other classes.....now im not saying they can use all these at any given time but they have access to, stealth, invuln, detargeting, teleports, skills that evade, and blocks.Meta mirage build doesn't have any stealth or detargeting.Elementalist can invuln, detarget, teleport, evade and block.Please don't be biased.Why should any class have the ability to have a counter for everything. I say take away there teleports completely. No one should have that kind of mobility.Sure, remove mesmer.

[Aaralyna.3104]

Can we pls differentiate a mirage with a core mesmer and a chronomancer? Not all of those are op nor have access to every single thing they could equip as skills (you still have to make choices on what to slot). I used to main a mesmer (now im between mesmer (chrono) and renegade). Both with builds that aren't the mainstream builds I suppose as I tailer to how I like to play with them. So my chrono never had any portal skills in pvp as my slots were a heal, reflect arrow bubble, well for aoe dps, gravity well for cc and a skill to summon 2 clones. And I use greatsword as weapon. I would still say, try out a mesmer and see for yourself what they can do, what they cannot do, and bonus points if you try chrono in pvp/wvw ;)

[Darth.7623]

Hopefully ANET will be giving Mirage, Holo,Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker the Druid/Chrono?Scrapper treatment.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Question...is it the core spec that the OP is QQing about?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Question...is it the core spec that the OP is QQing about?

I would hope its mirage and not core

[Sampson.2403]

Lol @ the people saying "mirage isn't broken, its a l2p issue".

Okay fine. You're right, in order to beat mirage you need to learn how to beat it. But that argument is like saying mt everest isn't hard to climb, you just need to learn how do it.

Mirage is broken by design 4 sureeee. So your guys solution is that everyone needs to become pro at this game because beating a mirage is like fighting diablo on the highest difficulty setting. L2p and git gud amirite.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Sampson.2403 said:Lol @ the people saying "mirage isn't broken, its a l2p issue".

Okay fine. You're right, in order to beat mirage you need to learn how to beat it. But that argument is like saying mt everest isn't hard to climb, you just need to learn how do it.

L2p and git gud amirite.

Some people actually did

[Marxx.5021]

Well it should be clear by now that balance issues in PvP never get addressed properly. There is no real balancing for PvP at least since Anet decided not to split traits or mechanics between game modes. And this was quite some time ago ...

[Offair.2563]

Class is broken by design, it's why it keeps getting hit by nerfbat each and every single time and still overperforms here and there..

[Squirrel.2370]

@Sampson.2403 said:Lol @ the people saying "mirage isn't broken, its a l2p issue".

Okay fine. You're right, in order to beat mirage you need to learn how to beat it. But that argument is like saying mt everest isn't hard to climb, you just need to learn how do it.

Mirage is broken by design 4 sureeee. So your guys solution is that everyone needs to become pro at this game because beating a mirage is like fighting diablo on the highest difficulty setting. L2p and git gud amirite.

Exactly. Class (mirage especially) needs overhaul.

[Squirrel.2370]

@"Tayga.3192" said:

"> Elementalist can invuln, detarget, teleport, evade and block.

Please don't be biased."

LOL, I see you jumping around to every anti-mesmer(mirage) post and attempting to defend them. It's time to acknowledge how busted your class is and drop your bias. Comparing their survivability to elementalist just reeks of desperation. Like seriously? Can you not see how biased your reasoning is to even make this assertion? Go play some ele or tempest and then tell me how many times you were downed compared to playing mirage. None of your theory-crafting is really based in reality.

And... I know this seems like I'm attacking you but I'm really not. You main Mirage and you love it, sure. It seems you have good technical knowledge of the classes, but your feedback has just not been helpful or constructive. Just objectively it seems very clear Mirage is a tier above everything else. If you have anti-Mirage tips, then please share, but saying "l2p" and other git-gud comments isn't convincing anyone.

[Abelisk.5148]

Mirage is a toxic spec because it can cast while evading.

[Squirrel.2370]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Question...is it the core spec that the OP is QQing about?

Mirage, sorry for not being concise! I actually wish things with Chrono turned out a little differently because I love the idea behind it, but that's a different topic all together.

[Squirrel.2370]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Question...is it the core spec that the OP is QQing about?

I would hope its mirage and not core

It was definitely mirage, sorry for not being concise.

[Squirrel.2370]

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:If you wipe 500-80, it isn't the Mesmer's fault.If a Mesmer is 1v3ing you and manages to win, it -definitely- isn't the Mesmer's fault.

There's a difference between overpowered class mechanics and being outplayed. It isnt the mesmers fault three of your teammates fought one guy for 20 seconds and then managed to wipe vs that mesmer. That's extremely poor team play. the remaining two players who were elsewhere must have been eaten alive because of that, and that's why you guys got steamrolled.

You can be frustrated, but that wasn't an example of being carried by a class. It takes extreme player skill coupled with a novice team strategy on the opposing side to kite 3 people around for a third of a minute and then win.

If you think something on mesmer is busted, specify exactly what it is. Saying "it carried a team because we 3v1d it and all died", especially now, says more about your team than about the mesmer.

@alain.1659 said:As I have just relized that people lack this knowledge which has been a common thing (at least for me), I want to give you a good tip. Please use the previous enemy function in the game to deal with mesmers better. Rest is a combination of l2p and imbalancedness of condi mirage.

That function doesn't work properly. Previous enemy will give you an arbitrary target somewhere in your line of sight if you havent willfully deselected the target yourself. stealth and drop target cannot be mitigated by this.

I mean, it's tough to swallow but you are right to a degree... I'm sure I can improve. However, that 1v3 was just one example I'm giving. This see this type of thing occurring frequently, and almost exclusively against Mirage. I don't see any other spec carrying this hard against me or my teammates this consistently.

[bravan.3876]

Mirage itself is not broken, Ci is broken and condi clones autoattacks and ambush attacks (scepter, staff, axe) are broken. Compare the condi dmg from clones to the power dmg clones do with normal autoattack and ambush attacks and you instantly see the balance problem condimesmers will always have as long as condi clone dmg doesnt get addressed. That conditions are in general op designed in gw2 (not only mesmer has lame and op condibuilds) is another problem. CI is then the cookie on top of condi mesmers opness.

[alain.1659]

Sadly mesmer clone system is also problematic. There should be an active limit to the clone number but you can summon more than 3 with some tricks. And yep, CI trait is ugly. Lets swap it with old glamour trait and all will be well :)

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Anet fucked up with mirage big time. Why fix it when we can kill the game mode some more. Frustration makes the game fun i guess in thier eyes. Either Quick fix and if you cant fix it then disable it until you figure it out. Competition is supposed to be fun and exciting. This is not that. Too bad pvp is being ruined and overshadowed by this when everything else feels great.