-300 vit on holo instead of scrapper

[rdigeri.7935]

What if the vitality reduction was the tradeoff of holo instead of scrapper?Imo it makes more sense for a glass cannon themed spec.

[Nephalem.8921]

Holo lacks the cannon big time though. Would be up for it if damage would be on daredevil level.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

Why not on both?

[Eastcorn.5901]

Buff holo damage by a lot, maybe add another active defense to one of the skills then yes, -300 vit is good. And also it makes a lot more sense.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Eastcorn.5901 said:Buff holo damage by a lot, maybe add another active defense to one of the skills then yes, -300 vit is good. And also it makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, it would fit the aesthetic of a glass cannon

[knite.1542]

In general I am against giving negative stats to a class. Just seems like a lazy cop out to use instead of making actual balance.

For this specific case, I don't think holosmith really fits glass cannon. Holos don't really do a lot of high numbers, they just have higher sustained DPS. I think the negative vitality should be removed from scrapper and forge mode should be harder to upkeep. Just my opinion anyway. It is an interesting idea though.

[Naxos.2503]

Okay, but then tone down the overheat penalty even more on Photonic Blast Module. Otherwise Nay.

Removing stats from classes that are Already in a bad way is not Something we should encourage. Holo already has tradeoffs, Scrapper already has tradeoffs. Neither needed to be penalized stat wise.

[Ruufio.1496]

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:Why not on both?

Do you work at Arenanet ¿¿

[revolucion.3864]

girfuy

Edited February 15 by revolucion.3864

[Genesis.7864]

I say revert the current holo changes to overheating which literally just breaks built-in mechanics with existing GM traits. Then they should do the -300 base vitality.Scrapper should be reverted to what it was before. This last "balance" update is by far the worst balance update they've ever done. Ever. It's a mistake and they need to hit the undo button.Seriously, PBM requires overheating, but the new nerf now punishes the player for overheating. It completely breaks the intended function.Undo this all this and just take off 300 vitality. Done.

[Nephalem.8921]

@knite.1542 said:In general I am against giving negative stats to a class. Just seems like a lazy cop out to use instead of making actual balance.

For this specific case, I don't think holosmith really fits glass cannon. Holos don't really do a lot of high numbers, they just have higher sustained DPS. I think the negative vitality should be removed from scrapper and forge mode should be harder to upkeep. Just my opinion anyway. It is an interesting idea though.

No. The power version has ok to low burst and the lowest sustained damage of all the power builds. Even counting stuff like herald.The condi build is super hard to play and with recent uncalled buffs to ele and fb way behind them. Holo never had high sustained dps in pve. It was all about burst and wasn't it a sustain bruiser aswell in pvp?I have seen 3 holos in raids/fractals since the patch hit and all of them performed terrible. I mean sometimes 50% and more behind. Most of the time just 20-30% though.

[knite.1542]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@knite.1542 said:In general I am against giving negative stats to a class. Just seems like a lazy cop out to use instead of making actual balance.

For this specific case, I don't think holosmith really fits glass cannon. Holos don't really do a lot of high numbers, they just have higher sustained DPS. I think the negative vitality should be removed from scrapper and forge mode should be harder to upkeep. Just my opinion anyway. It is an interesting idea though.

No. The power version has ok to low burst and the lowest sustained damage of all the power builds. Even counting stuff like herald.The condi build is super hard to play and with recent uncalled buffs to ele and fb way behind them. Holo never had high sustained dps in pve. It was all about burst and wasn't it a sustain bruiser aswell in pvp?I have seen 3 holos in raids/fractals since the patch hit and all of them performed terrible. I mean sometimes 50% and more behind. Most of the time just 20-30% though.

Sorry, I was referring to WvW, I should have specified.

[Iozeph.5617]

How about no vitality penatly to any of them? It was a stupid change put in place by stupid people. Anathema to a profession which is supposed to be a tank. And for the holo the overheat changes were going in that direction to begin with. That should be a big enough penalty to health if the holo isn't managing correctly. We're all playing engineers here, why shuffle these idiotic changes from one miserable group to another. Then, instead of it being a stupid penalty on the Scrapper it will be a stupid penalty on the Holo. And I have no love lost for the holosmith so take that from where it's coming.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Iozeph.5617 said:Anathema to a profession which is supposed to be a tank.But it doesnt even matter to a tank. An ele, thief and guard can easily run sustain/bunker builds and they have even less base hp. Its all about the defensive traits and how they regen hp... you know the traits that was deleted.

Running in WvW with 3.5K armor and 20K hp is like being on a glass cannon now. Thats how bad it is. -300 vitality is irrelevant.

[rdigeri.7935]

@"revolucion.3864" said:I don't know what the point of this poll is.

It's basically asking "Do you want to get punched in the face or the stomach?"

The big picture is a little more than "if my class gets nerfed it's bad, if my class gets buffed it's good"

@Iozeph.5617 said:How about no vitality penatly to any of them? It was a stupid change put in place by stupid people. Anathema to a profession which is supposed to be a tank. And for the holo the overheat changes were going in that direction to begin with. That should be a big enough penalty to health if the holo isn't managing correctly. We're all playing engineers here, why shuffle these idiotic changes from one miserable group to another. Then, instead of it being a stupid penalty on the Scrapper it will be a stupid penalty on the Holo. And I have no love lost for the holosmith so take that from where it's coming.

I see where you're coming from. The reason i'd prefer health loss over overheat penalty is that the penalty's unjustified for raid holo (blasting module) while on other GM-s, it doesn't change anything, overheating was avoided anyways.

[TwiceCookedPorkins.8940]

Neither. It's stupid and a completely uninteresting "tradeoff".

[Skotlex.7580]

-300 vitality penalty is supposed to offset the extra survival the scrapper can obtain via damage. However, a flat value is bad balance because it heavily penalizes builds that don't focus already on being glass cannons.

I'd rather they change the vitality penalty to scale of ferocity (as that ensures that only high dps builds will be affected, and in that case the barrier from damage can offset the handicap).

[Ambrosius Custard.8137]

How about -300 for neither? It's a ridiculous way to balance things in the first place. The worst thing is that even giving the Scrapper back 300 Vitality wouldn't fix the issues of this ''''balance'''' patch.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

@Ruufio.1496 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:Why not on both?

Do you work at Arenanet ¿¿

In my opinion the specialisations added since 2015 need limitations. I'm happy Arena Net finally (and hopefully) seems to agree.

[Ambrosius Custard.8137]

Which is fine and something that isn't innately a bad thing (I also agree that they needed looking at, especially the ones that are basically a flat upgrade like Mirage), the issue is the current implementation. Honestly you could have made it +300 Vit and the current Scrapper would still be garbage. The issue really isn't necessarily in the prospect of giving elite specs a drawback (though IMO they should have looked at bringing some of the less loved/pointless core specs to standard first), but in the way they've been implemented, and in the case of specs like the Scrapper a poorly thought out and implemented redesign of how the spec functions.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Iozeph.5617" said:Anathema to a profession which is supposed to be a tank.But it doesnt even matter to a tank. An ele, thief and guard can

easily

run sustain/bunker builds and they have even less base hp. Its all about the defensive traits and how they regen hp...

you know the traits that was deleted

.

Running in WvW with 3.5K armor and 20K hp is like being on a glass cannon now. Thats how bad it is. -300 vitality is irrelevant.

It matters to some tanks, and as you say it matters even more to us when we've lost so much regen. One or the other might have been annoying but acceptable.

Taking away both vitality AND regen and then expecting that to be made up by doing damage with a hammer that has a difficult time keeping you in range long enough to hit your opponent came across as over punitive and sadistic.

You need that vitality/regen because of the valleys in combat where you find your barriers/shields are on cooldown. Three thousand health is nothing to sneeze at. Toughness doesn't help against conditions and there's still plenty of professions that have no problem reapplying condi on you the moment after you've wasted a cleanse getting rid of the last few. Yes, that extra three thousand might only give you a second or two extra if you're lucky, but in fights sometimes that one or two seconds is crucial in allowing a clutch ability to come off cooldown to keep you in a fight.

The loss of three hundred vitality isn't irrelevant. It's just that there have been so many other hits with the last couple of 'balance' passes that it seems insignificant by comparison. Similar to this;

[Crab Fear.1624]

-300 toughness sounds better, and forge reveals you

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Nobody should have a penalty on their specialization lines. Period.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:-300 toughness sounds better, and forge reveals you

The reveal is actually a nice idea. It makes them less slippery and forces them to plan their disengage. That change also has no effect on PvE (AFAIK, please correct me if I'm wrong).

[Lunateric.3708]

I'm okay with Holo getting a stat penalty if it also gets more damage in return. As it stands it's completely underwhelming compared to almost every other class.