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Bugs in the new Scrapper traits + video examples


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  1. Speed of Synergy doesn't work unless an actual combo is triggered on a field. However, the trait doesn't specify that there must be a combo. Seems like a bug. Admittedly this doesn't come up that often because usually you are using blast finishers on combo fields, but occasionally you need to use a blast finisher mid-combat and don't have time to lay down a field first, but still need the superspeed.
  2. Sort of related: Speed of Synergy's 5s superspeed (from Rocket Boots' blast finisher) is overwritten by Gadgeteer's 2s superspeed at the end of Rocket Boots. This is a total nonbo and sucks. Why can't superspeed stack? It'd avoid most of these annoying interactions.
  3. Object in Motion only works with power damage .. trait says "increased damage" - actually only affects power damage. Why can't this work with condi?
  4. Impact Savant doesn't work with condition damage - okay.. this one is by design I'm assuming because it says "strike damage", but .. why though? It just kills build diversity for no reason. If 15% condi damage would be too much, maybe have it function at 10% condi damage to barrier?

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Hello There, IMHO those are not "bugs":1) is just a bad wording Chosen, I assume this was the intended mechanic from beginning on, just benefitting from any finisher without a field would make no sense.2) you could call this a bug. However, a General one concerning superspeed and not a scrapper related one. It only hurts scrapper most with the current traits. It was similar before when someone overwrote your superspeed with his AoE superspeed.3) & 4): yep, they COULD also work for condition damage, however, in GW2 the term "increased damage" is generally used for power damage alone, you can see this on several other classes, or runes, or traits. Otherwise, the condition damage is additionally listed, so I would also not call it a BUG but just that the traits could be improved by adding a condition damage modifier.

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In that case, they should probably change the wording. At present, it doesn't say anywhere that it requires a combo to happen - only that you use a finisher.

I find it particularly egregious when one trait overwrites another trait .. and the lower duration wins. If anything, it should just be 5s instead of 2. Considering both of those things happen at the end of Rocket Boots (the blast finisher and the gadgeteer superspeed). Also, why is the gadgeteer superspeed only 2s? It's a GM trait. Shouldn't it be doing more than a minor trait?

,4. In that case, they should add it to the trait descriptions like they did with Impact Savant ("strike damage"), but I'd prefer if they just worked with condition damage. Or if Impact Savant could be optional..

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I think the balance team has been trying to forget turrets exist for like 4+ years now.

I mean, I think it just highlights the fact that the current Impact Savant forces you to play power dps and then doesn't even work well enough to do that..

Just put it back the way it was! Adaptive armour didn't restrict builds...

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I think the trait meant to read as :

Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers on lightning fields to to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers on lighning fields to give superspeed in an area around you.

It gives 5 sec of superspeed (non-stack) instead of swiftness on lightning fields.

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@Mil.3562 said:I think the trait meant to read as :

Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers on lightning fields to to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers on lighning fields to give superspeed in an area around you.

It gives 5 sec of superspeed (non-stack) instead of swiftness on lightning fields.

Not really, all field works.. Tested,u just have to combo it. Thats it

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Superspeed is not a boon, so it can't stack and be buffed by BD, also get overwrite by new one, just how it works now, sucks but true..... Unless Anet change it, before that, we cant do anytjing about it (already there for 7 years I guess, u just notice because the new patch give u alot of them.

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@Yazeed.4971 said:

@Mil.3562 said:I think the trait meant to read as :

Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers
on lightning fields
to to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers
on lighning fields
to give superspeed in an area around you.

It gives 5 sec of superspeed (non-stack) instead of swiftness on lightning fields.

Not really, all field works.. Tested,u just have to combo it. Thats it

All fields work? Really? Meaning if i do blast finisher on a water field, i will blast area heals plus superspeed to those affected?

I also tested it on the patch day but it didnt work then.

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@Mil.3562 said:

@Mil.3562 said:I think the trait meant to read as :

Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers
on lightning fields
to to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers
on lighning fields
to give superspeed in an area around you.

It gives 5 sec of superspeed (non-stack) instead of swiftness on lightning fields.

Not really, all field works.. Tested,u just have to combo it. Thats it

All fields work? Really? Meaning if i do blast finisher on a water field, i will blast area heals plus superspeed to those affected?

Thats correct,u can try it again, very simple

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@Yazeed.4971 said:

@Mil.3562 said:

@Mil.3562 said:I think the trait meant to read as :

Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers
on lightning fields
to to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers
on lighning fields
to give superspeed in an area around you.

It gives 5 sec of superspeed (non-stack) instead of swiftness on lightning fields.

Not really, all field works.. Tested,u just have to combo it. Thats it

All fields work? Really? Meaning if i do blast finisher on a water field, i will blast area heals plus superspeed to those affected?

Thats correct,u can try it again, very simple

Cool. I'll test it out later. Now we have one more reason to use Shield over Hammer.

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You can see it in the video. I'm using water fields on the second and third blasts.

My guess is they'll just update the wording of the trait to say "blast finishers that trigger combos" or something like that.

.. but there's still the matter of Gadgeteer giving less superspeed and applying after the trait triggers.... and condi not working with scrapper at all

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the only one I can assume is a actually bug is the first and second one, the spec is suppose to deal power damage, engi doesn't really have a spec that is suppose to deal condi damage outside of core, if a trait is meant to increase condi damage it normally specifies

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No bugs here, just intended designs we don't fully love.

  • Speed of Synergy is obviously intended to be used on combos, there is a precedent set by "Blasting Zone", exolosives middle adept. Blast finishers grant might, it specifies nothing of interacting with a combo field, but here we are acting surprised.

  • Super speed overwrites and doesn't stack. This is 100% an intended design. Yes, Gadgeteer is redundant with Scrapper equipped, hardly impactful though.

  • All traits that say "do X% more damage" all mean power damage unless specified "and X% more condition damage". I could find 100 precedents of this interaction.

  • Strike damage specifically shows intent to disclude condition damage, it's by design, not a bug.

Maybe OP is pretending they're bugs to protest the design? Clearly all is as intended

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@"Chaith.8256" said:No bugs here, just intended designs we don't fully love.

  • Speed of Synergy is obviously intended to be used on combos, there is a precedent set by "Blasting Zone", exolosives middle adept. Blast finishers grant might, it specifies nothing of interacting with a combo field, but here we are acting surprised.

  • Super speed overwrites and doesn't stack. This is 100% an intended design. Yes, Gadgeteer is redundant with Scrapper equipped, hardly impactful though.

  • All traits that say "do X% more damage" all mean power damage unless specified "and X% more condition damage". I could find 100 precedents of this interaction.

  • Strike damage specifically shows intent to disclude condition damage, it's by design, not a bug.

Maybe OP is pretending they're bugs to protest the design? Clearly all is as intended

  • Synergy: well that's news to me. I never used blasting zone, so I was surprised to find the trait say "blast finishers" and then not work with "blast finishers" but instead "blast combos". If it requires a combo, I would expect it to be more like Soothing Detonation: "When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher.."
  • I mean, it sucks that it overwrites and doesn't stack, but if it's going to do that, it could at least overwrite in a more beneficial way and not put you at a disadvantage for using those two traits together.
  • Again, that isn't really described anywhere. If that's the case, it should say so..
  • Admittedly #4 is just a design complaint.. Why deliberately exclude all non-power-dps scrapper builds? It's stupid. No other spec is so restrictive..
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@coro.3176 said:

@"Chaith.8256" said:No bugs here, just intended designs we don't fully love.
  • Speed of Synergy is obviously intended to be used on combos, there is a precedent set by "Blasting Zone", exolosives middle adept. Blast finishers grant might, it specifies nothing of interacting with a combo field, but here we are acting surprised.
  • Super speed overwrites and doesn't stack. This is 100% an intended design. Yes, Gadgeteer is redundant with Scrapper equipped, hardly impactful though.
  • All traits that say "do X% more damage" all mean power damage unless specified "and X% more condition damage". I could find 100 precedents of this interaction.
  • Strike damage specifically shows intent to disclude condition damage, it's by design, not a bug.

Maybe OP is pretending they're bugs to protest the design? Clearly all is as intended
  • Synergy: well that's news to me. I never used blasting zone, so I was surprised to find the trait say "blast finishers" and then not work with "blast finishers" but instead "blast combos". If it requires a combo, I would expect it to be more like Soothing Detonation:
    "When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher.."
  • I mean, it sucks that it overwrites and doesn't stack, but if it's going to do that, it could at least overwrite in a more beneficial way and not put you at a disadvantage for using those two traits together.
  • Again, that isn't really described anywhere. If that's the case, it should say so..
  • Admittedly #4 is just a design complaint.. Why deliberately exclude all non-power-dps scrapper builds? It's stupid. No other spec is so restrictive..

@#4We can have our wants and desires, and I know how many people feel about the way scrapper got “balanced” But i’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anet, who can guess how strong a burn scrapper might be ticking 6k on you every second from range.

Now don’t get me wrong, the traits could have been implemented in a way that allows a condi build to work or a power build, but as it stands now, anet wants us to build glassy and use hammer.

If I can say, just as an aside: These “trade offs” seem to have a domino effect, the changes actually pidgin holed us into a very particular play style, and forces us to make many many many more trade offs to stay relevant, than I think anet intended.

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@BarnacleBoy.6918 said:

@"Chaith.8256" said:No bugs here, just intended designs we don't fully love.
  • Speed of Synergy is obviously intended to be used on combos, there is a precedent set by "Blasting Zone", exolosives middle adept. Blast finishers grant might, it specifies nothing of interacting with a combo field, but here we are acting surprised.
  • Super speed overwrites and doesn't stack. This is 100% an intended design. Yes, Gadgeteer is redundant with Scrapper equipped, hardly impactful though.
  • All traits that say "do X% more damage" all mean power damage unless specified "and X% more condition damage". I could find 100 precedents of this interaction.
  • Strike damage specifically shows intent to disclude condition damage, it's by design, not a bug.

Maybe OP is pretending they're bugs to protest the design? Clearly all is as intended
  • Synergy: well that's news to me. I never used blasting zone, so I was surprised to find the trait say "blast finishers" and then not work with "blast finishers" but instead "blast combos". If it requires a combo, I would expect it to be more like Soothing Detonation:
    "When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher.."
  • I mean, it sucks that it overwrites and doesn't stack, but if it's going to do that, it could at least overwrite in a more beneficial way and not put you at a disadvantage for using those two traits together.
  • Again, that isn't really described anywhere. If that's the case, it should say so..
  • Admittedly #4 is just a design complaint.. Why deliberately exclude all non-power-dps scrapper builds? It's stupid. No other spec is so restrictive..

@#4We can have our wants and desires, and I know how many people feel about the way scrapper got “balanced” But i’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anet, who can guess how strong a burn scrapper might be ticking 6k on you every second from range.

Now don’t get me wrong, the traits could have been implemented in a way that allows a condi build to work or a power build, but as it stands now, anet wants us to build glassy and use hammer.

If I can say, just as an aside: These “trade offs” seem to have a domino effect, the changes actually pidgin holed us into a very particular play style, and forces us to make many many many more trade offs to stay relevant, than I think anet intended.

If you pop everything and land it all (and it's not cleansed), you can maybe get 6k ticks, but not for very long, and with the amount of effort + skills you'd have to use, you would have easily pulled off a lethal power combo had you been playing power instead. Most of the time, you get ~1-3k burn ticks, which would equate to ~150-450 barrier per second which is .. not actually crazy? That's in the range of Backpack Regenerator's ~100hps (terrible, no one uses it) and Healing Signet's ~350hps (pretty decent).

Also, condi damage -> health already exists in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Parasitic_Contagion and Necromancer can easily reach condition ticks higher than Engineer. I think it'd be totally fair to have something similar for the barrier trait. After all, barrier is often less useful than healing, as it expires after 4s and scrapper is already paying a heavy -3k health price for this mandatory trait.

I would recommend a similar value for impact savant - maybe 10% of condition damage and 15% of outgoing (not applied to self) healing?

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@"coro.3176" said:

  • Synergy: well that's news to me. I never used blasting zone, so I was surprised to find the trait say "blast finishers" and then not work with "blast finishers" but instead "blast combos". If it requires a combo, I would expect it to be more like Soothing Detonation: "When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher.."

I agree

The tips on Tools/Traits should state what they do accurately, this is currently not the case for this one. Expecting you'll get superspeed when using a blast/leap finisher (regardless if you combo it with fields) is the only correct way to interpret this trait tip. The existance of an other (simmilary) badly written trait tip is not an excuse for the existence of this badly written trait tip, they must both be changed AND HEADS SHOULD ROLL OVER SUCH UNFORGIVABLE INACCURACIES ! ;)

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All those points in the main post just prove how quick and not thought-through were the scrapper changes. I can just hear the conversation:-Hey, Bob, do you have the list of Scrapper changes I asked you to get together yesterday? We're pushing the patch to live in 35 minutes.-(CRAP CRAP CRAP) Yuuup Johnathan I have them riiiight here (quickly writes down random changes on a post-it note)!

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@coro.3176 said:I like how they fixed the holo raid dps, but not the bugs/tooltips/viability/build diversity of scrapper..

yay for priorities..

They didn't fix Holo raid DPS, it's still overshadowed by the meta picks and the new ECSU build is very gimmicky, you have to preheat before the boss but pulling the boss is not on you most of the time as a non-tank.

Kit lockout is still there and it's still horrible to have with PBM.

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@"Ambrosius Custard.8137" said:Here's how you fix the current Scrapper bugs - revert the Scrapper changes. No need to thank me Anet!

Or increase Impact Savant damage to barrier "conversion" from 15% to 20%, and increase the Function Gyro health so it doesn't die in a single downed attack that deals 980 damage (Chaith tested this, and the Function Gyro was destroyed from a single downed Warrior NPC attack that dealt 980 damage, which made my stomach turn to know our Function Gyro, the staple of the Scrapper mechanic, is that darn fragile). If they did these 2 things, Scrapper would see a significant increase in its survivability and usefulness.

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