Would you all be willing to pay an extra fee to have access to a Dungeon/Raid Builder tool?

[Knighthonor.4061]

Games like Mario Maker although basic 2D game shows what tools in the hands of creative players can do.

What if something like this, as in a tool to allow players to create instanced Content for others to rate and play was added to the game with a small fee to access this tool and a small fee to host your Dungeon/Raid instances?

Dungeon Maker tools been around for a long time just never been an innovative approach to add it to the modern MMO genre.

[Teratus.2859]

No option for me..

This to me sounds like "The Foundry" content we had in Neverwinter and Star Trek Online.Basically player made missions, but it was shut down a short while ago, I believe they had good reasons for doing so but I don't remember them.

I dunno how I would feel about it in Gw2.It would have to be heavily regulated by Anet which would require time, work and money.

Can't exacly allow hundreds if not thousands of people to spam the game with player made dungeons and raids..That's just asking for content like Caudecus's secret dungeon where you must rescue a naked Logan from a horde of.. well i'll leave that up to your own imagination xD

On the plus side the potential for some great player made content is there, I just think there's equal potential for people to really take the skritt with such a tool and if there was no well established review process than the game would just be flooded with all manner of god knows what kinds of weirdness.

[Tarlonniel.6534]

The problem I've seen is that players will mostly throw together instances which reward lots of loot/XP/whatever in exchange for very little time or effort. In a single player game, this isn't such a big deal (though apparently it's become a big deal to at least one company now). In a multiplayer game, it can be ruinous.

[Linken.6345]

Look how well it was implented in assassins creed oddesy mate.

[Kate Soulguard.7132]

Well now I want to change my vote.

It would be incredibly helpful to roleplayers who are doing story arcs with a Dungeon Master who needs to create environments for stories. I'd like it, and would pay for the tool. The only caveat is that player content could never generate loot or experience.

[Dawdler.8521]

"Basic 2D game" being the keywords here. A 3D game is massivly more complex unless it as well is very basic (think old Neverwinter Nights 2D block building). Unless Anet already have a "consumer friendly" map builder for GW2 (which I doubt they do), that's years worth of work.

[serialkicker.5274]

@"Linken.6345" said:Look how well it was implented in assassins creed oddesy mate.

Don't make it auto implementing then? When a person designs a dungeon, it goes on a "wait for approval" list, until Anets staff checks it out and tests it.They would need few people for it, but way less resources than designing dungeons themselves. If done well, after a while the investment would most likely pay off very well.I don't believe there is any chance we would actually see something like that, but just saying, I think if anet wanted to do it, they could.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

This seems like way too much work creating and maintaining.I'd rather have them spend their ressources to do a dungeon overhaul and maybe create new dungeons in the future - but even that takes a lot of work already which is exactly why it hasn't happened yet. Maybe it will at some point and that would be nice but I'm not betting on it.

[Danikat.8537]

No option for me. I wouldn't pay to access it but I also wouldn't be opposed to it being in the game as long as it was balanced to address the issues mentioned above of people making stupidly easy content which rewards absurd amounts of loot and XP.

I learned years ago that making games, even making mods for games, isn't something I'm interested in. I've occasionally made mods because there's something I really wanted which no one else was doing (I've also adapted other people's mods to better suit my needs) and I really enjoy testing stuff for other people because I like seeing the process of building up a game or mod over time, but I prefer playing games to building them.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

Do not want.

[Game of Bones.8975]

I don't play either modes enough to make it worth while.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:I don't play either modes enough to make it worth while.

I don't either but the creative aspect of it is appealing. Making Dungeons/Raids that others may like seem appealing

[Trise.2865]

If I was going to design my own game, why would I need Guild Wars?

On the other hand, we do have the Guild Halls' Decoration and Arena systems... can make some pretty interesting Jumping Puzzles and encounters with those.

[Donari.5237]

Other:

I wouldn't use such a tool as I am no game designer and have never made any game mods (though the comment above about setting up RP spaces holds some interest, assuming it's not limited to five players at a time), so I would not pay for it and would be a bit miffed if I somehow got charged for it beyond what I already spend on the game.

But if it is implemented in such a way as to prevent game-affecting exploits, and doesn't divert the devs from making other more generally-useful content, I wouldn't be flat-out opposed to it like your only "no" option suggests.

[Westenev.5289]

While "player made" concepts can be amazing, like forge mode in halo:reach, we have no precident for this type of content in gw2. I mean, I'd be rather unhappy if we ended up with a mini guildhall-eque sandbox that I could only show to the two or three friends bored enough to show up.

That said, what if Anet added hostile mobs and bosses as guildhall decorations...

[MithranArkanere.8957]

As interesting as it could be, players would probably misuse them to create farming rooms.

And if there was no drops, then they would simply not use it.

[Emberstone.2904]

I'd be willing to try it if it had scripting tools similar to that of Doom's SnapMap editor. id Software overall did a pretty great job giving us powerful scripting tools, but each tool was curated so, in the end, we could only play within their own limitations despite having the freedom to do whatever we wanted with them.

It sounds really meh, but you could do some insane stuff in SnapMap since they effectively gave us basic programming tools. Logical gates/operators, loops, variables, cached objects, timers, ways to mess with the properties of individual objects (such as HP, damage, healing, armor, encounter spawning, etc.) using those functions. I personally like making boss encounters. This is one of the ones I made. I've got more on my channel if you feel like searching, but I won't bother cluttering up this post.

In-game editors have some serious potential, but I can't imagine ArenaNet having the resources to make such a powerful tool available to the public in an MMO setting. They can't even solve the game's problems as it is, let alone player-created problems in an editor (because there will be bugs and exploits; there were even in SnapMap).

I'd be willing to pay for such a tool, but only if we can be sure it's going to at least be as powerful as SnapMap, which can't possibly happen here.

[Khisanth.2948]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:"Basic 2D game" being the keywords here. A 3D game is massivly more complex unless it as well is very basic (think old Neverwinter Nights 2D block building). Unless Anet already have a "consumer friendly" map builder for GW2 (which I doubt they do), that's years worth of work.

They have shown some bits of map building for one of the PvP maps. It doesn't look like anything resembling "consumer friendly" and that was just a small part of what needs to be done.

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:Look how well it was implented in assassins creed oddesy mate.

Don't make it auto implementing then? When a person designs a dungeon, it goes on a "wait for approval" list, until Anets staff checks it out and tests it.They would need few people for it, but way less resources than designing dungeons themselves. If done well, after a while the investment would most likely pay off very well.I don't believe there is any chance we would actually see something like that, but just saying, I think if anet wanted to do it, they could.

If they need few people then that would mean very few players are actually using it. That doesn't sound like something that is worth pursuing. If it is expected that a lot of people will use it then a lot more staff would be needed for review.

A "review when reported" system would require less staff but that will also allow more things to slip through.

@"Emberstone.2904" said:I'd be willing to try it if it had scripting tools similar to that of Doom's SnapMap editor. id Software overall did a pretty great job giving us powerful scripting tools, but each tool was curated so, in the end, we could only play within their own limitations despite having the freedom to do whatever we wanted with them.

It sounds really meh, but you could do some insane stuff in SnapMap since they effectively gave us basic programming tools. Logical gates/operators, loops, variables, cached objects, timers, ways to mess with the properties of individual objects (such as HP, damage, healing, armor, encounter spawning, etc.) using those functions. I personally like making boss encounters. This is one of the ones I made. I've got more on my channel if you feel like searching, but I won't bother cluttering up this post.

In-game editors have some serious potential, but I can't imagine ArenaNet having the resources to make such a powerful tool available to the public in an MMO setting. They can't even solve the game's problems as it is, let alone player-created problems in an editor (because there will be bugs and exploits; there were even in SnapMap).

I'd be willing to pay for such a tool, but only if we can be sure it's going to at least be as powerful as SnapMap, which can't possibly happen here.

Doom and Mario also doesn't have to worry about loot and economy.

Speaking of powerful editing or lack of it in this case, look at the tools we have for dealing with guild decorations. I can't even do something as simple as rotate something after I put it down. I have to remove it then place it again.

[Emberstone.2904]

@Khisanth.2948 said:Doom and Mario also doesn't have to worry about loot and economy.

Player-made content doesn't have to drop loot. There's really no reason it should.

[Ashen.2907]

Yes.

The problem of cheese farm instances could be readily addressed.

[Omega.6801]

1)Exploitable tools will be exploited. If such a tool existed ppl would either create farm-dungeons and/or offensive and inapropriate instances.2)Policing playermade content takes lots of ressources. Sure a list of approval could be done but let's say 50 instances are sent in for approval per day, that sums up to 1500 per month or 18000 per year. I doubt ANet could police/survey all those instances on a high quality level. Also just imagine all the "pls forward my dungeon!", "Why is my raid not approved yet!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" threads and/or tickets that would just add to the team's to-do list.3)While creating small, lootless, unfarmable instances for RP purposes would be fine i guess, is it worth the serverspace though? And what if the author/creatir of such an instance leaves the game or the guild? Could these instances be handed to other players? Can they be shared? I'd think that even such instances would nicrease the workload for ANet by a lot.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@"lokh.2695" said:1)Exploitable tools will be exploited. If such a tool existed ppl would either create farm-dungeons and/or offensive and inapropriate instances.2)Policing playermade content takes lots of ressources. Sure a list of approval could be done but let's say 50 instances are sent in for approval per day, that sums up to 1500 per month or 18000 per year. I doubt ANet could police/survey all those instances on a high quality level. Also just imagine all the "pls forward my dungeon!", "Why is my raid not approved yet!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" threads and/or tickets that would just add to the team's to-do list.3)While creating small, lootless, unfarmable instances for RP purposes would be fine i guess, is it worth the serverspace though? And what if the author/creatir of such an instance leaves the game or the guild? Could these instances be handed to other players? Can they be shared? I'd think that even such instances would nicrease the workload for ANet by a lot.

The way I would mod it is to have a public test realm sort of mechanism that have players test and rate these player made Dungeons and Raids to value what's worth being submitted to Anet for confirmation and uploaded on their in game big board for players to play and gain rewards for. This method these PMC can be graded for quality as well as difficulty before it reaches Anet and players in the game.

One content maker may make a single room Meta Event Boss battles for a raid size group of players.

Another content maker may make a longer detailed small group dungeon for 5 players with puzzles and stuff like that.

[Lexi.1398]

Interesting concept, and one i wouldn't mind seeing in an MMO, i just don't think such would suit being on an already existing MMO; as in the guild wars 2 programme we currently run and servers for the current game. Copy the entire combat system and fashion over to a seperate programme with it's own dedicated servers, something like a spin-off based primarily around this concept, and that would be fun. Something like this would be a game changer; so much so, i think it wouldn't fit with the core design values of the current game.

However, mapping tools on mmos tend to be confusing and inaccessable, gw2 i imagine is up there with the least accessable in this reguard. It would make arenanet look bad, IMO, to just hand over their current mapping tools without recreating that system entirely to be user friendly to people who haven't done a single bit of coding in their life. It's gonna suck to use and be used by very very few people. Mario maker is accessable- you don't need to know how games work to use it. On the other, something like RPG maker, sure you didn't need a massive knowledge of how games do, but if you go in with nothing then you're not really gonna be able to create something without a tutorial first.

All in all, i wonder if it's worth the work. I, of course, am not a professional in any one of the various skills a game team has amongst it, so I couldn't begin to say.

[serialkicker.5274]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

If they need few people then that would mean very few players are actually using it. That doesn't sound like something that is worth pursuing. If it is expected that a lot of people will use it then a lot more staff would be needed for review.Who says they need to test and approve all listed entries right away? Testing out and approving one dungeon even every 2 weeks or a month would be quite something. There could also be some basic requirements that needs to be met in order to list you designed content, so not everyone with 5 minutes would go about doing that.