Will GW2 survive as NCSoft's second least profitable title?

[Danikat.8537]

One way to look at it is this: If GW2 was shut down which NCSoft game would you play instead? Blade & Soul? Aion? Lineage? I suspect for the majority of players the answer is none of them. Which means it's not nearly as simple as shutting down one game and shifting those players (and therefore profits) to a more profitable one. They'd lose this audience and have to establish a new one for a new game, which is a lot more work and risk (and marketing costs) than keeping an existing one running. Especially when, as other people have said, GW2 is the only NCSoft game still popular in western countries, so either they're introducing a new game to their established markets which risks competing with the ones they already have or being a niche title with minimal profits, or they're making another attempt to break into a market where they've historically had very little success.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So.... revenue doesn’t mean profit....

And it doesn’t give you margin either.

Revenue (if that is what you saw) is more of a raw number. So, if you truly saw revenue, but didn’t see EXPENSE, then you really don’t have an idea how the product is doing.

GW2 has always been relatively small. Revenue is likely to be small. But if the margin is 25%, (as an arbitrary number) they’ll leave it alone. If margin is 5%, that’s a different thing altogether.

I could be wrong but since this is a report produced for NCSoft's share holders on the money they earned from their properties I'm pretty sure it's all profit. Anet is a wholly owned subsidiary, so their financial data isn't made public. The costs for developing and maintaining GW2 come from their budget and then they pass a chunk of the profits on to NCSoft as the publisher.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Danikat.8537 said:One way to look at it is this: If GW2 was shut down which NCSoft game would you play instead? Blade & Soul? Aion? Lineage?

Given how Blade & Soul, Aion and Lineage II combined make less money than Guild Wars 2 in the NA and EU, shutting down Guild Wars 2 would mean NCsoft no longer has any meaningful games in those regions. Removing Guild Wars 2 would mean shutting down NCsoft West completely.

I could be wrong but since this is a report produced for NCSoft's share holders on the money they earned from their properties I'm pretty sure it's all profit. Anet is a wholly owned subsidiary, so their financial data isn't made public. The costs for developing and maintaining GW2 come from their budget and then they pass a chunk of the profits on to NCSoft as the publisher.

It's not profit, it's income from the games. They don't offer details on individual profits, but on the company as a whole. NCsoft made 410786 million krw in that quarter, but after taxes and operational costs this turns into 116857 (this is their actual profit).

[Goettel.4389]

Let me check my crystal ball.My guess is: yes, it will.

[aspirine.6852]

@Vayne.8563 said:You're looking at this all wrong. NcSoft's most popular title is Lineage and has been forever. Lineage failed in the US however and closed down. Guild Wars 2 is NcSoft's most popular title in the west. Everything else in the west has failed. Is there are value to having a western presence for an international company? Of course there is. Unless the NcSoft West gets a much more popular MMO, NcSoft will be sticking with Guild Wars 2. It's important for them to have that presence.

Absolutely dead on.NCsoft will try to change that of course, they hope to do it perhaps with their Project TL. But they have been working on that for so long.... Not sure if it's even going to happen.

[Luthan.5236]

Yes. It is better to use the money on stuff that makes more profit. But then again: There is a limit to the profitable stuff. Once the most profit game is maxed it might make sense to use money on other games - as long as they make profit. Also for companies with more than 1 game cross selling and advertising might work. (2nd best game might bring players to their top games.)

Since GW2 is pretty different (no item/gear treadmill) I guess it will always have some stable plyerbase that like this concept. While more hardcore gamers switch or only play when new expansiosn come out grinding/finishing them in 1-2 weeks then going on break and playing WoW again.

Question is on how much money is made - cause there is no subscription - from the players that really like this game. I'm not spending a lot of real money. But considering that there are players having event reached the cap of char slots (and wanting more) and caring about skins ... I guess it is still making enough money. Making new skins probably is earning them lots of money while being cheap and not much development work. Just hire a designer for skins and put him in a room with a computer and let him to a amor set every week or 2 - while also doing other stuff that involves designing and sell it for 800 diamonds or so.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

Betteridge's law of headlines. Google it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

An Armor set every week or 2? From one designer? While working on other content?
The playerbase wishes.

[otto.5684]

@Westenev.5289 said:

@otto.5684 said:Also, did you take in consideration GW brand name? This game will keep going for years and we could potentially see GW3 and maybe more. A new title that has one-two good margin years does not guarantee future cash returns.

I only found out about this game from a friend of a friend, and many of my friends who don't play have never heard of the game. :# Compare this to something like Maple Story, WoW or Runescape - brand names any mmorpg noob will have heard at least once.

Don't get me wrong, GW2 is a fun game, but I feel like the brand name is about as obscure as the many korean mmo's on the market.

It is not. At PoF release GW2 was one of the biggest MMOs, which were WOW, ESO, Final fantasy and GW2.

[sigur.9453]

@otto.5684 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:

@otto.5684 said:Also, did you take in consideration GW brand name? This game will keep going for years and we could potentially see GW3 and maybe more. A new title that has one-two good margin years does not guarantee future cash returns.

I only found out about this game from a friend of a friend, and many of my friends who don't play have never heard of the game. :# Compare this to something like Maple Story, WoW or Runescape - brand names any mmorpg noob will have heard at least once.

Don't get me wrong, GW2 is a fun game, but I feel like the brand name is about as obscure as the many korean mmo's on the market.

It is not. At PoF release GW2 was one of the biggest MMOs, which were WOW, ESO, Final fantasy and GW2.

To be fair, in almost every mmo list gw2 is not listed in the top 3 spots. You named the usual top spot holders yourself. so the general population sadly treats gw2 like "any other mmo except top 3"

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Randulf.7614" said:If Anarchy Online can survive 18 years with a handful of players and no major content for just about 15 years, I feel pretty confident GW2 will be fine

You call "no major content" fine? :o

Anyway, I ,too, think there is no reason to panic (once again). These type of threads is getting tiresome.

[Blocki.4931]

Reading through some of the replies made me realize that the dye system was a mistake. Giving us content in form of the same armor sets with a different color works for other games and would probably quench the thirst of people who always demand more ingame rewards (or rather make them think that is the case)

[Tzarakiel.7490]

Shutting down gw2 as long as it's still profitable would only make sense if the players/customers moved on to other ncsoft titles. However most sensible people wouldn't move on to a different game by the same publisher immediately after.

[Randulf.7614]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:If Anarchy Online can survive 18 years with a handful of players and no major content for just about 15 years, I feel pretty confident GW2 will be fine

You call "no major content"

fine

? :o

No but the game was strong enough to survive even with a compulsory sub without content. GW2 for all its problems is a stronger game and will survive.

[Xanadrine.4352]

I think the problem is marketing and appeal. I never see anything about gw2 they need to get their presence out there, and they need to change/add some things that will appeal to new players. They need a bigger presence at gaming and fantasy cons, now would be a great time to announce an expansion and really get the advertising out there. I dont understand why they barely promote the game, it makes it seem like they have no interest in expanding it, just keeping it where it is.

Also do the people at arena net get free reign on their game? Because we all know the devil that corporations are over their game companies. Look no further than Bobby the devil Kotick lol

[phokus.8934]

@Faline.8795 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Ah, the daily "GW2 is dying! " thread. Missed a couple days there, was starting to get worried.

I didn't say GW2 is dying.

I stated an economic fact (GW2 is the second-lowest revenue producer), a business fact (why spend money on a low-profit venture when you can spend it on a high-profit venture) and then asked a question based on those facts.

You don't know what their profit margins are. And that's one of the more important figures to look at.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Faline.8795 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:Ah, the daily "GW2 is dying! " thread. Missed a couple days there, was starting to get worried.

I didn't say GW2 is dying.

I stated an economic fact (GW2 is the second-lowest revenue producer), a business fact (why spend money on a low-profit venture when you can spend it on a high-profit venture) and then asked a question based on those facts.

You don't know what their profit margins are. And that's one of the more important figures to look at.

Most people under the age of 30 don’t understand the difference.

And schools won’t teach them.

[Dietrich.2617]

2 steps to guild wars 2 success:1-Remaster Graphics2-Optimization (FPS)

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I doubt they would dare. Guild Wars 2 is one (and NcSoft's only) representative among MMORPG "four titans" (FF XIV, WoW, ESO, GW2). If this was GW1, which did not have the cult following nor brand awareness comparable with Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy and Warcraft brands, then yea, they might be thinking about giving it the axe.

But at this Moment Guild Wars brand awareness is global thanks to this game, and even if not most profitable, axing it could have catastrophic consequences in terms of player trust and getting ppl to commit to any other huge project they may try to launch. Even by value of being a starting platform for Guild Wars 3, the game is well worth to keep around and not piss it's playerbase off.

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Yeah, Marine Corps billboards randomly all over Tyria will probably improve the aesthetics of the game.

I don't wanna say nuthin', but if you go to a certain "fortified spot" in Jahai bluffs, near cliffside ... oops gotta go, they're on to me!

[Leo G.4501]

What's the status on NCSoft's mobile ports of their other MMOs?

At worst, you might see some kind of new mobile western MMO or mobile port in the future and THAT might be the undoing of GW2.

[Faline.8795]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:One way to look at it is this: If GW2 was shut down which NCSoft game would you play instead? Blade & Soul? Aion? Lineage?

Given how Blade & Soul, Aion and Lineage II combined make less money than Guild Wars 2 in the NA and EU, shutting down Guild Wars 2 would mean NCsoft no longer has any meaningful games in those regions. Removing Guild Wars 2 would mean shutting down NCsoft West completely.

I don't really know how much regional presence makes that much of a difference. Is NCSoft willing to give up profit just to have a virtual presence in the West?

Is anyone who makes the decision really asking, "Am we willing to give up a million dollars in profit just to say we have a Western game?"

There are such things as loss leaders. If running only a minorly profitable game gets you to look at other games from NCSoft, that could be a viable reason to keep a minorly profitable game going.

Yeah, sure, putting out more content would certainly get more people involved, and more money into the game. But that brings us back to the original question: Why spend money for 25 cents profit per dollar when you can spend money on 75 cents profit per dollar.

Sure, we don't know GW2's cost/revenue ratio. I don't know the other games, but certainly it's higher than a mobile game.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Cynder.2509 said:In my opinion ArenaNet should get rid of NCSoft and make a partnership/deal with another company which is much fairer in this case. If all things go down I'd even say they should be bought by Blizzard even though that isn't the nicest company either but at least they're more stabilized in revenue matters so they won't have to rely on one studio making the money for them.

Next to impossible to do since NCSoft owns ArenaNet, unless someone with very deep pockets offered NCSoft a boat load of money to take the company off their hands, and it would have to be a significant boat load of money in order for NCSoft to make up for the loss in revenue that would have their shareholders jumping down the boards throats.

Still, this is the only game ArenaNet makes, there's nothing else to replace it should NCSoft decide for what ever stupid reason to shut down GW2(or more likely put it in maintenance mode like GW1).

[Skotlex.7580]

Also, I am pretty sure the other ncsoft titles are not going to see their revenues increase if they close down GW2, since we are talking about different markets, and I doubt it's even possible to further invest into "pay2win" games to make even more money, I am pretty certain they are already optimized to milk their customers for all they have.

So, basically, for the time being GW2 remains running, until ncsoft decides to just close ncwest, and they are unlikely to do that while there's a profitable market to benefit from.

[DoRi Silvia.4159]

I think the reason people dread posts like these is because the so called 'doom and gloom' posts all end up having the same discussion almost every time.Sure you may change the title and ask a question worded differently, but we end up with in the same spot.

No one can give the exact answers except ANET, and we can only make a educated guess

The way I see it, there is still PLENTY of people in game , and still see a ton of new players in the low level maps around Tyria - Population is not an issue

Majority of gw2 players know this is fashion wars and we don't mind that, for example shimmerwing skyscale released for 2000gems, on the day of release I went to LA and found almost everyone with a skyscale had the skin on - GW2 still makes good money when skins are released

30th of August we have a big announcement and Season 5 is starting for living world, I can't see this game going down anytime soon.

[Fozzie.5370]

@"Trise.2865" said:Ah, the daily "GW2 is dying! " thread. Missed a couple days there, was starting to get worried.

^^ Just this. :joy:

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Maybe, and if not, they can split off like LOTRO did from Warner Brother games (Was Turbine, Now Standing Stone games)