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Returning 3 bars of adrenaline


Acheron.4731

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@Acheron.4731 said:to berserker as a gm trait in exchange for % damage boost or stabPros/Cons?

you have to be kidding lol

berserker (both banners, and power dps) are currently overperforming dps-wiseand here you are, asking for even more dps.

you do realise that the next balance patch, in 3 months from now, will nerf berserker by either putting an icd on f1, or lowering the damage mod from bloody roar from 20% to 10%?

enjoy your 3 months, i know i will

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well, i may be :)but, there are other berserker f1(f2) abilities that still hit a wee bit low (gunflame for instance) is quite mellow atm.Plus, in exchange it could take 'king of flames' gm trait thus having to give up bloody roar so you would have to trait in something other than discipline and defense to really make it HIT,It is still my favorite elite spec but lost its fluidity when the single adrenaline bar went in effect.for further clarification I am looking from a wvw perspective. I don't think in terms of pve/raid dps where everything can work in ideal situations.I just still think it has a few kinks.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@Acheron.4731 said:to berserker as a gm trait in exchange for % damage boost or stabPros/Cons?

you have to be kidding lol

berserker (both banners, and power dps) are currently overperforming dps-wiseand here you are, asking for even more dps.

you do realise that the next balance patch, in 3 months from now, will nerf berserker by either putting an icd on f1, or lowering the damage mod from bloody roar from 20% to 10%?

enjoy your 3 months, i know i will

Overperforming where? Not in PvE, the power build is now on par with the condi build, which was only meta because of banners. They already nerfed Bloody Roar to 15% in PvP and WvW.

ICD on F1? Are you meaning going from BMode to the first burst? If they did that They would have to increase BMode duration to compensate, yet would effectively kill the spec for WvW and PvP. There is already a cast time and aftercast to using BMode, so its not like its instantaneous follow up.

Really not sure where you are coming from here mate.

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@melandru.3876 said:

@"Acheron.4731" said:to berserker as a gm trait in exchange for % damage boost or stabPros/Cons?

you have to be kidding lol

berserker (both banners, and power dps) are currently overperforming dps-wiseand here you are, asking for even more dps.

you do realise that the next balance patch, in 3 months from now, will nerf berserker by either putting an icd on f1, or lowering the damage mod from bloody roar from 20% to 10%?

enjoy your 3 months, i know i will

I am unsure of where and how Berserker is overperforming. Even Warrior as a whole. The only reason people will want to have a warrior in their team (pve) is for their banners and Empower Allies. Nothing else. Even if you ditch the banners, and spec purely for DPS, people will not want to have you as a Warrior because other classes are simply just better at that than you.

Instead of just saying "Berserker is overperforming DPS-wise" without any source, proof of concrete points, It's just senseless and it sounds highly subjective.

If a Warrior should not do good DPS as you seem to say, what should he do? Bring banners and CC? He already does that and it always been.

======

As for the 3 bars adrenaline, I'm honestly not sure. I kinda like the idea of a certain trade off, but it seems to be badly executed.

My suggestion would be to make it a bit like Spellbreaker. Put 2 bars of adrenaline, use 1 bar for core burst or 1 bar for berserk mode, and then unleash what you have with your "berserk" adrenaline bar. I wonder, really. 3 bars would be really fun to have in berserk mode, but maybe berserk mode only.

I have trouble coming out with ideas. These might sound like bad ones XD.

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https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

The highest-performing Warrior build is currently the 5th highest DPS profession, and only on large hitboxes. Having excellent group support and CC on top of its middle-of-the-pack DPS puts it in a pretty decent spot.

I vote to keep the single adrenaline bar. It feels more thematically fitting that a Berserker would be firing those off every chance its available rather than pooling their adrenaline. Plus it's fun.

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I think the idea needs more flesh. I can't see this happening ... you're making it possible to pop berserker mode at 1/3 the adrenline cost ... but get the same berserker mode advantage at 2/3 or full adrenaline bar?

I mean ... what's the compelling reason to ask for this?

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@Obtena.7952 said:I think the idea needs more flesh. I can't see this happening ... you're making it possible to pop berserker mode at 1/3 the adrenline cost ... but get the same berserker mode advantage at 2/3 or full adrenaline bar?

I mean ... what's the compelling reason to ask for this?

Not really, i was assuming it would pop at 3 like it used to.Again, the burst really lacks for anything other than gs imho at the expense of survivability once bz mode is down. Adrenal health really has little impact as-is which I know was a concern before but once bz was reworked it kinda feels empty now.Thus, 3 bars to initiate but with traits can employ more power (which would be lost from bloody roar) in exchange for going into strength for berseker power...which thematically fits OR defense for adrenal health....assuming discipline is always taken since it usually is.Make more since?

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Actually, there is a great reason to get this fixed ... the fact that you earn the adrenaline for the full 3 bars and don't benefit from those 3 bars like all non-berserker specs do. Just another one of those 'deficient' design decisions that hoses Berserker spec.

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@Blocki.4931 said:The fact berserker mode alone gives you the 3 bar Berserker's Power buff and due to resets + weapon switch you'll be getting multiple stacks of every adrenaline related trait makes this completely redundant.

Explain please. Maybe you are seeing something different than I am.Again, I am coming from a wvw perspective (or pvp even). Are you talking about static mobs that you hit 3 times consecutively?Or are you traiting in Bloody roar + berserker power (bz and strength)?It still only counts as one bar.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Acheron.4731" said:to berserker as a gm trait in exchange for % damage boost or stabPros/Cons?

you have to be kidding lol

berserker (both banners, and power dps) are currently overperforming dps-wiseand here you are, asking for even more dps.

you do realise that the next balance patch, in 3 months from now, will nerf berserker by either putting an icd on f1, or lowering the damage mod from bloody roar from 20% to 10%?

enjoy your 3 months, i know i will

Overperforming where? Not in PvE, the power build is now on par with the condi build, which was only meta because of banners. They already nerfed Bloody Roar to 15% in PvP and WvW.

ICD on F1? Are you meaning going from BMode to the first burst? If they did that They would have to increase BMode duration to compensate, yet would effectively kill the spec for WvW and PvP. There is already a cast time and aftercast to using BMode, so its not like its instantaneous follow up.

Really not sure where you are coming from here mate.

not in pve? you have to be kidding me. literally everywhere i go be that frac cm's or raids, i am topdps as zerker.a spammable f1 that hits for 40k-ish, ye sure how balanced. now add 3 adrenaline bars so the damage on decapitate is even higher /logic

most people complain about zerker overperforming as i allready said, we are bound to get nerfed in the next balance patch by either a bloody roar nerf, or a icd (3 seconds?) on axe f1

it's not really the time to ask for buffs lol

normal pug run https://dps.report/wtD0-20190809-213153_gorsnormal pug run https://dps.report/Xi84-20190810-004316_skornormal pug run https://dps.report/ynmt-20190810-005655_arkknormal pug run https://dps.report/WXA2-20190809-232309_mamanormal pug run https://dps.report/yeo1-20190809-232957_siax

all from yesterday, as can be seen by date.

not the best run, not my best performance, not the best comp.

berserker is overperforming, anyone claiming otherwise is just wanting to keep his op-ness

when both zerker banner power and zerker banner condi are doing MORE dps then actual dedicated dps classes like power soulbeast something has to be wrong

pretty much no rotation just 3 hits and f1, anyone can do that

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@melandru.3876 said:

@"Acheron.4731" said:to berserker as a gm trait in exchange for % damage boost or stabPros/Cons?

you have to be kidding lol

berserker (both banners, and power dps) are currently overperforming dps-wiseand here you are, asking for even more dps.

you do realise that the next balance patch, in 3 months from now, will nerf berserker by either putting an icd on f1, or lowering the damage mod from bloody roar from 20% to 10%?

enjoy your 3 months, i know i will

Overperforming where? Not in PvE, the power build is now on par with the condi build, which was only meta because of banners. They already nerfed Bloody Roar to 15% in PvP and WvW.

ICD on F1? Are you meaning going from BMode to the first burst? If they did that They would have to increase BMode duration to compensate, yet would effectively kill the spec for WvW and PvP. There is already a cast time and aftercast to using BMode, so its not like its instantaneous follow up.

Really not sure where you are coming from here mate.

not in pve? you have to be kidding me. literally everywhere i go be that frac cm's or raids, i am topdps as zerker.a spammable f1 that hits for 40k-ish, ye sure how balanced. now add 3 adrenaline bars so the damage on decapitate is even higher /logic

most people complain about zerker overperforming as i allready said, we are bound to get nerfed in the next balance patch by either a bloody roar nerf, or a icd (3 seconds?) on axe f1

it's not really the time to ask for buffs lol

normal pug run
normal pug run
normal pug run
normal pug run
normal pug run

all from yesterday, as can be seen by date.

not the best run, not my best performance, not the best comp.

berserker is overperforming, anyone claiming otherwise is just wanting to keep his op-ness

when both zerker banner power and zerker banner condi are doing MORE dps then actual dedicated dps classes like power soulbeast something has to be wrong

pretty much no rotation just 3 hits and f1, anyone can do that

Power is king in FotM. Golem benchmark is 35k on a power zerker. This is in the middle of the pack as far as benchmarks go. Power Ele of any sort has higher numbers. Power DD is also higher.

Banners give more stats to Warriors if they trait for it, so of course a banner Zerker, or a Zerker playing with a BS, will bring more dps than a Soulbeast in a sustained fight. Berserker DPS is not locked behind utilities to the extent of other classes. Soulbeast will only ever pull ahead while Sic'em is up, or in the rare times they have AoO up.

If you are consistently the highest DPS in your pugs as a Zerker, then GG you encountered what everyone encounters in pugs, people who think they are good but aren't.

I have Arc installed, I pull benchmark numbers on the golem. I have a static FotM group with 1 druid, 1 support FB, a power weaver, and a floating 5th that is most of the time a power DD. The power DD actually pulls the highest DPS in our FotM group, but that makes since because they rely on dodging for DPS, and Mobility pots and endurance food help them out there. The weaver pulls 2nd place, with me very close behind him. If our DD isn't there then the weaver pulls 1st and I am a close 2nd to him.

So what we have here is you pugging with crappy players and thus thinking zerker is op when zerker is in actuality pulling moderate benchmarks. Warrior has always been and will always be okay in all that it does. It is not and will never be top DPS when in a group of players that properly play they classes. It will never and has never been top support. Banners are only meta because of their unique benefit, and Anet has nerfed them recently, and I fear will be nerfed again.

/logic back at you.

As to the OP. Primal Burst are on a roughly 4s CD if you have Discipline traited. Berserker's Power last for 15s. Berserk Mode already counts as a T3 burst. You will always have maximum stacks up if you use your F1 on cooldown. Ditto for Adrenal Health if you spec for sustain instead of DPS. If you roll Axe/x and use F1 on CD, then you will always have max stacks even without Discipline traited. There is no need for your requested GM trait, and if it did happen it would actually nerf Berserker DPS if it is in place of Bloody Roar.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I have a static FotM group with 1 druid, 1 support FB, a power weaver, and a floating 5th that is most of the time a power DD. The power DD actually pulls the highest DPS in our FotM group, but that makes since because they rely on dodging for DPS, and Mobility pots and endurance food help them out there. The weaver pulls 2nd place, with me very close behind him. If our DD isn't there then the weaver pulls 1st and I am a close 2nd to him.

nice alacrity your static has, you might want to replace the dd for a third healer

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@melandru.3876 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I have a static FotM group with 1 druid, 1 support FB, a power weaver, and a floating 5th that is most of the time a power DD. The power DD actually pulls the highest DPS in our FotM group, but that makes since because they rely on dodging for DPS, and Mobility pots and endurance food help them out there. The weaver pulls 2nd place, with me very close behind him. If our DD isn't there then the weaver pulls 1st and I am a close 2nd to him.

nice alacrity your static has, you might want to replace the dd for a third healer

Our FB isn't a healer, and we burn through boss quickly enough without the alacrity. Our FB does more DPS than many of the random DPS that join us.

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@Obtena.7952 said:Actually, there is a great reason to get this fixed ... the fact that you earn the adrenaline for the full 3 bars and don't benefit from those 3 bars like all non-berserker specs do. Just another one of those 'deficient' design decisions that hoses Berserker spec.

I find this makes better ammunition to the argument for retooling the whole 3 Bar concept in core traits, given how its creating scaling problems with the Espec's stronger baseline abilities. I would also call for the removal/reworking of traits that passively scale up for hoarding Adrenaline, and refocus on giving warriors more ways to spend it. I'd even go as far as suggesting adding an F2 to core, so traits have something else to play off of, and have that be the modification for Espec.

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@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Actually, there is a great reason to get this fixed ... the fact that you earn the adrenaline for the full 3 bars and don't benefit from those 3 bars like all non-berserker specs do. Just another one of those 'deficient' design decisions that hoses Berserker spec.

I find this makes better ammunition to the argument for retooling the whole 3 Bar concept in core traits, given how its creating scaling problems with the Espec's stronger baseline abilities. I would also call for the removal/reworking of traits that passively scale up for hoarding Adrenaline, and refocus on giving warriors more ways to spend it. I'd even go as far as suggesting adding an F2 to core, so traits have something else to play off of, and have that be the modification for Espec.

Sounds interesting to me. At it's core, warrior is a pretty limited class, so more things to do would be appreciated.

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@"melandru.3876" said:normal pug run https://dps.report/wtD0-20190809-213153_gorsThe changes made to berserker as part of the patch from the 23rd of April ended up increasing the damage output for both power and condition builds, correct? And yet the condition bs berserker snowcrows used in a gorseval kill in early February achieved slightly higher dps than the one in your log.the log: https://dps.report/HpZ6-20190202-224442_gorsAlso note how their lowest dps ended on 21k, far ahead of even the best result from the log you posted. You are trying to draw conclusions for balance from examples in which the most important factor is the difference in player skill level.

when both zerker banner power and zerker banner condi are doing MORE dps then actual dedicated dps classes like power soulbeast something has to be wrongWhy do you exclude the possibility that something is wrong with soulbeast instead of berserker? Additionally: According to snowcrows benchmarks "Condition Lynx" soulbeast has higher dps than "Condition Berserker Banner" berserker and "Power" soulbeast is ahead of "Power Berserker Banner" berserker.https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

pretty much no rotation just 3 hits and f1, anyone can do thatThe unfortunate state of the optimal rotation for power berserker is no indication for it's over- or underperformance.

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@Katary.7096 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:normal pug run
The changes made to berserker as part of the patch from the 23rd of April ended up increasing the damage output for both power and condition builds, correct? And yet the condition bs berserker snowcrows used in a gorseval kill in early February achieved slightly higher dps than the one in your log.the log:
Also note how their lowest dps ended on 21k, far ahead of even the best result from the log you posted. You are trying to draw conclusions for balance from examples in which the most important factor is the difference in player skill level.

when both zerker banner power and zerker banner condi are doing MORE dps then actual dedicated dps classes like power soulbeast something has to be wrongWhy do you exclude the possibility that something is wrong with soulbeast instead of berserker? Additionally: According to snowcrows benchmarks "Condition Lynx" soulbeast has higher dps than "Condition Berserker Banner" berserker and "Power" soulbeast is ahead of "Power Berserker Banner" berserker.

pretty much no rotation just 3 hits and f1, anyone can do thatThe unfortunate state of the optimal rotation for power berserker is no indication for it's over- or underperformance.

Not to mention that pure power Berserker has a higher benchmark than power Soulbeast. Melandru really isn't making sense in this thread.

Back on topic: I wish all adrenaline was not spent on use and that we had an option of using the burst at lesser tiers without losing all adrenaline, or for alternate F2s in core.

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