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WvW from day one was always marketed as a form of PvPvE, so why do you all hate having better NPC?


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WvW was always, since day one, marketed as a PvPvE gameplay mode which featured NPCs to fight against along side enemy players. So why is the WvW community been so against the improvement of the NPC part of the gameplay in this game mode?

I seen some WvW Community members say they want No NPCs. but isnt that what SPvP is for if you just want PvP?

People been against having Metas in WvW, and Big Powerful Faction Boss Units in WvW, and even against the improvement of the AI of NPC guards in WvW. But why? WvW is PvPvE. Always been.

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Yea they did that in desert bl and those keep lords are nothing more than cc spam bots. Incredibly annoying to fight, not challenging, just frustrating and not fun whatsoever. I dont go to WvW to fight NPCS, I go for the large scale fights which you cant get in PvP.

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@X T D.6458 said:Yea they did that in desert bl and those keep lords are nothing more than cc spam bots. Incredibly annoying to fight, not challenging, just frustrating and not fun whatsoever. I dont go to WvW to fight NPCS, I go for the large scale fights which you cant get in PvP.

you can get that from 20man SPvP maps. Ask Anet to create a queue for it or make it larger if thats all you want.

WvW has always been about PvPvE. And NPC were always sold to be a major factor in this game mode.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Yea they did that in desert bl and those keep lords are nothing more than cc spam bots. Incredibly annoying to fight, not challenging, just frustrating and not fun whatsoever. I dont go to WvW to fight NPCS, I go for the large scale fights which you cant get in PvP.

you can get that from 20man SPvP maps. Ask Anet to create a queue for it or make it larger if thats all you want.

WvW has always been about PvPvE. And NPC were always sold to be a major factor in this game mode.

PvP is not WvW. They are completely separate game modes in functionality and mechanics. The only thing they have in common is people fighting each other, everything else is pretty much done differently. WvW incorporates PvE but that doesnt mean thats the reason people go into it. Do any PvPers go into PvP to fight base lords? They go to fight other players. I like to do it on a much larger scale, and WvW allows me to have much greater flexibility in what I choose to do. The PvE factor serves a purpose, because there has to be some kind of token resistance in objectives, the rest serves as scenery. The mercenary camps in EB should be replaced IMO.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:WvW was always, since day one, marketed as a PvPvE gameplay mode which featured NPCs to fight against along side enemy players. So why is the WvW community been so against the improvement of the NPC part of the gameplay in this game mode?

I seen some WvW Community members say they want No NPCs. but isnt that what SPvP is for if you just want PvP?

People been against having Metas in WvW, and Big Powerful Faction Boss Units in WvW, and even against the improvement of the AI of NPC guards in WvW. But why? WvW is PvPvE. Always been.

nothing against it. some players just want easy bags. :/

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WvW from day one was always marketed as a form of PvPvE, so why do you all hate having better NPC?As phrased, that's not correct. It's always been marketed as realm vs realm with NPCs. It's never been played nor thought of as NPCs being on equal footing. And over time, ANet has reduced the importance of NPCs altogether.

It's also not true that everyone hates the NPCs. GvGs, Fight Guilds, and plenty of roamers can't stand NPCs, sure. And yet there are plenty of people who actually preferred realm-vs-environment, as it made for easy karma trains (case in point: the history of EotM).

Put another way, WvW "purists" prefer no NPCs, traditionalists are okay with some being involved (Keep Lords, if nothing else), and some people would love to see more. Like everything in WvW, there's a mix of views.

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WvW is not a PvPvE mode, it's a large scale (3 servers) PvPvP siege game mode. The NPC lords are just a time gate to allow defense, this is why a keep lord can be soloed, they are not meant to be strong, but waste time for people to try and defend/respond.

SPvP was meant to be a commercial competitive, highly balanced PvP game mode, they pushed pretty hard to go esports with it and streaming, but it failed pretty bad, and has fallen apart in the last few years due to many poor choices including lack of proper balance.

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There's an entire game mode dedicated to pve to cater to everything you could want in pve, raids, fractals, daily bosses, ktrains, meta trains, exploration, story, dungeons, festivals. What more do you need to add for wvw? more roaming guard groups that get owned by zergs in 2s? harder bosses that just become endurance fights like smc or air lord? grub turned into a raid boss? more cc junk that's an annoyance not "fun" mechanics to fight?

At the end of the day, most players are in wvw to kill other players, if your only purpose is to avoid players, fight npcs and collect loot, you might as well be doing it in pve, it's way better and more efficient and more rewarding for that. The biggest challenge for pvp players comes from fighting other players.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Yea they did that in desert bl and those keep lords are nothing more than cc spam bots. Incredibly annoying to fight, not challenging, just frustrating and not fun whatsoever. I dont go to WvW to fight NPCS, I go for the large scale fights which you cant get in PvP.

you can get that from 20man SPvP maps. Ask Anet to create a queue for it or make it larger if thats all you want.

WvW has always been about PvPvE. And NPC were always sold to be a major factor in this game mode.

I believe it was PvPvE because back then it was a sandbox mode... players had to manually upgrade the map and look after the environment.Tower upgrades, NPC upgrades, camp upgrades, protecting yaks because upgrades came out of location supply instead of x amount of deliveries and so on..

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Because npc AI is bad, and because the wvw maps are small. Making boss and npc fights "better" just means adding one or more of: More health, more damage, more cc, more movement. This artificial difficulty does nothing to add to the experience of wvw, which is large scale dynamic fights, not memorizing npc attack patterns.

Also since wvw maps are so small, defeating a group defending a keep doesnt guarantee enough time to deal with complex npc mechanics and encounters, since respawns are at most a couple minutes away.

Adding other types of "better" npcs would mean having features like buffing/healing defenders and making attacking/sieges more difficult, which would just encourage attackers to ppt undefended objectives, or hold their fights outside them. There is no incentive to capture a defended keep over an undefended one, so increasing the difficulty would just discourage people from fighting each other.

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player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

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@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

wvw isnt newbie friendly. ita not like we let newbs live if we see them. :<

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

wvw isnt newbie friendly. ita not like we let newbs live if we see them. :<

The mechanics of certain classes (warior, ranger and mesmer) are really newbe friendly on roamer class...since the passive traits those classes have and can Carry people to face a more experienced foe

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

wvw isnt newbie friendly. ita not like we let newbs live if we see them. :<

The mechanics of certain classes (warior, ranger and mesmer) are really newbe friendly on roamer class...since the passive traits those classes have and can Carry people to face a more experienced foe

if the new player played a little bit of pvp, it would work. else, could you imagine a new bie running mace mace hammer roaming around?

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

wvw isnt newbie friendly. ita not like we let newbs live if we see them. :<

The mechanics of certain classes (warior, ranger and mesmer) are really newbe friendly on roamer class...since the passive traits those classes have and can Carry people to face a more experienced foe

if the new player played a little bit of pvp, it would work. else, could you imagine a new bie running mace mace hammer roaming around?

I mean its more easy tools to make the newbie survive and Discover the class and how to counter a bitJust getting wrecked all the time with 5s fights wont learn you to play. And soon learn why mace/mace+Hammer would or wouldnt work

On the pvp: yeah they need to be willing to learn, playing pvp shows mechanics on a different perspective

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

wvw isnt newbie friendly. ita not like we let newbs live if we see them. :<

The mechanics of certain classes (warior, ranger and mesmer) are really newbe friendly on roamer class...since the passive traits those classes have and can Carry people to face a more experienced foe

if the new player played a little bit of pvp, it would work. else, could you imagine a new bie running mace mace hammer roaming around?

I mean its more easy tools to make the newbie survive and Discover the class and how to counter a bitJust getting wrecked all the time with 5s fights wont learn you to play. And soon learn why mace/mace+Hammer would or wouldnt work

On the pvp: yeah they need to be willing to learn, playing pvp shows mechanics on a different perspective

i suppose i can speak only for my experience. i remember a long time ago when i was with int guild in vabbi, 3 of us went to wvw, and we took a tower; after which we were zerged down by 15 players. we laughed it off and returned to wvw after 3 months. :pensive:

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:player side.

as i observe, not many took time to learn the game mechanics, thus, the whining.

maybe, check out unofficial sources manual? or from dev side, tutorials? i.e. starcraft has basics and achievements if you comply with certain strategies tutorials. maybe in pvp or some tutorial mode, the same can be done in wvw?

i know not many go forth and read things made by players. except those who are invested and some who are invested in this game, simply want to try and err. but if easily bored or not patient, so much whining.

I dont understand what you are getting at. WvW was always marketed as large scale PvPvE gameplay. It's not whining to want improvements. From the other side of the token all I have seen is people complain about Balance, Lag, A Lack of updates, and Population of course.

Many of these are issues that are nearly impossible to fix completely. The game will never be balanced as long as classes are radically different.Lag will always be a problem when dealing with a MMO over the Internet across large distances.Population always changes with this game mode since that's kind of the point of Open World Pvp which WvW is a confined simulation of. It always going to have unbalanced populations, hence the rise of the popular Instanced PvP in MMOs over the last 15 years. Anet did try here with the server linking but again its never going to be balanced unless they force where players go, similar to a Queue in Starwars Battlefront 2 Capitol Supremacy. But that won't happen for a while because of the outcry of it.

Then we get to the last one which is Content Updates. But seem like WvW people here are against all forms of content updates. I listed a few examples in the original post. Let's go through some of them in detail.

AI Improvements:AI improvements will change how NPC react to fighting against Zergs. If they on a Wall and a siege is right there they should mount the siege and attack nearby Zergs. Guards if outnumbered need to run inside and attack with sieges. Third party NPC factions need to use their own unique fighting styles to attack enemy players. Keep lords would change of their combat tactics based on what is being thrown at them from enemy players. Defense in this game tend to not be as big outside the zerg. This gives players additional assistance defending structure until ally zerg can get there for the big defensive battles which I want more of.

WvW Meta Events and Powerful Faction Bosses:I always been a verbal fan of Old AV from WoW, because it did many things right that never been done since the end of vanilla WoW. I believe large objects and Large powerful Faction Bosses would be a huge improvement to shake up the gameplay and especially with splitting up the zerg. Part of the zerg need to be ready to challenge these Bosses while other part of the zerg continue to push forward on offense. And roamers or individuals will have an objective that they can contribute to the overall meta progress when they eliminate a player and run back a new mat currency to contribute to the objective goal to build an outpost minibase or something. So many ways to do this in a fun exciting manner.

yes, i dont disagree. what i meant was people who dont like what you ask dont want to bother learning the mechanics

I would argue that people feel learning the mechanics is boring and mind numbing, which is why it’s not Raids.

AI is a waste of time. It’s boring and repetitive. That has always been the draw about roaming and PvP: you can always be surprised.

It’s also why most PvE players won’t have anything to do with WvW. They don’t want to fail. They want to memorize a predictable sequence in order to succeed.

wvw isnt newbie friendly. ita not like we let newbs live if we see them. :<

The mechanics of certain classes (warior, ranger and mesmer) are really newbe friendly on roamer class...since the passive traits those classes have and can Carry people to face a more experienced foe

if the new player played a little bit of pvp, it would work. else, could you imagine a new bie running mace mace hammer roaming around?

I mean its more easy tools to make the newbie survive and Discover the class and how to counter a bitJust getting wrecked all the time with 5s fights wont learn you to play. And soon learn why mace/mace+Hammer would or wouldnt work

On the pvp: yeah they need to be willing to learn, playing pvp shows mechanics on a different perspective

i suppose i can speak only for my experience. i remember a long time ago when i was with int guild in vabbi, 3 of us went to wvw, and we took a tower; after which we were zerged down by 15 players. we laughed it off and returned to wvw after 3 months. :pensive:

Im sorry for that experience, it happens in the gamemode since its open world. Some people choose to gank rather then fight squarly, rather Just ignore 3:1 is Both 15v5 as 15v45 and yeah IT happens i guess

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NPCs were never like a faction. They are nothing like the npc faction from AION. That was actually kind of fun and different. These NPCs in wvw are utterly useless. If they randomly raided and took camps towers or keeps then it would add a little bit more degree of difficulty to wvw and strategy, but it would also require defense and increasing the pop cap

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