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in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2?


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@witcher.3197 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"TwoGhosts.6790" said:Why do people even stream? It's such a peculiar mentality to me.Someone used the word narcissistic earlier. That's quite pejorative, but it does seem to describe streaming behaviour pretty well.

i don´t know, is a
  • book author
  • radio host
  • professor
  • musician
  • forum poster
  • .....................also automaticly a narcisist for sharing his work/mind/activities/...?

This makes me feel that mmo players are going the way of the dinosaurs. I notice mmo players are usually the first to call out mobile games as not being real games either so, it's not surprising that streaming isnt in their repitore as well.

You know what would be really healthy for probably most people...

Stop needing to call others out for your opinions. Stop calling them out as though somehow "you" possess some hidden knowledge that is subtle and quaint. Who cares if something that is clearly creative and imaginary (yes it exists in the sense that it is physically able to be interacted with but spawned from imagination) doesn't do it for you? I hate the taste of liver. I have cooked liver and onions thousands of times in my life and eaten it many as well. I still hate the taste but have been complimented on my preparation of it by others who love it often. My personal taste is not relevant in any way.

With a game or twitch or anything that you or another might consider creative or entertaining who are we to argue with that taste. I never understood twitch and for quite some time wondered why people did that and why anyone would even want to broadcast themselves in that way. It is pretty raw entertainment. No filter really no time delay and things can go badly wrong and if the camera is still rolling you are going to get super exposed to the world real fast considering it is being recorded or clipped by someone. Then I went to twitch one day and saw for myself.

It is madness. It isn't just games. I watched a person build a bird feeder the other day. there were only about 100 people watching but we chatted and he did as well with us and questioned certain things he was doing with tools and technique in his wood shop. He answered and gave information and joked around. It was a nice little bird feeder. It isn't just a bunch of twelve year old squeakers. I watch games and chat and watch cooking shows and other stuff live. For me that is the reason I actually really like it now that I just went and saw for myself. I love live entertainment. I have far less chance to see live performance for me actually in the flesh than I would like so it fits a role for me. I go to concerts, plays, opera, ballet and all kinds of other stuff whenever I can but I am not rich and that stuff can cost. Twitch and other platforms like it serve a very desired purpose and now I have digressed.

The reason more people will watch wow is several factors. One being that things change fast at the top on twitch. New and shiny often rockets to the top for a bit and then drops into a place below that and hovers around or crashes and disappears so far down you forget about it. WOW as classic launches is going to have a huge presence for a short time. It will not last long and will drop in place in the first three rows on the twitch browser after a month or so, maybe less. GW2 has never had much presence and in the end that is a viscous circle that causes a game to flounder. You need something that draws at least a couple mid-size or large streamers to a degree to survive. That causes ads to get played people get paid and then the circle is broken. It isn't easy in the sea of online games to achieve this and most games simply cannot for long. There is a reason the top games are always on top. Small streams and streamers are often more fun than large ones.

GW2 is never really going to have a place on twitch based on the current existence and culture of twitch.

Sort of digressed hard from the person I quoted not sure what happened. What can you do???

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

Never said it is and it's irrelevant to what you or I have said. There are people that can play [pick a sport], but at the given time choose to watch it instead, which doesn't magically make them abandon active participation in the near future OR make [said sport] FUNDAMENTALLY wrong/bad/whatever you want to call it. Your statement is just false no matter how you choose to paint it.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

Right, you are describing what your thoughts and opinions are on the subject...and I'm contributing a contrary, or opposing, thought/opinion that is actually supported by available information that essentially refutes that opinion.

Its okay if your opinion is opposed, its okay if an opinion is wrong, that is the entire basis of an opinion; it is a view or judgment of something that is not necessarily supported by fact or knowledge. Which means that its okay that it can be wrong, and its also okay if your opinion changes based on new information or perspective.

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Because gw2 is more entertain to play than to watch.I doubt even know why game channels are popular in the first. You're waching someone else having fun.(Strictly talking about lets play streams. There are people who can amusing videos ABOUT games)

So world of warcraft is more entertaining to watch than play?

Apparently. The people must not like the game very much to rather watch other people play

Apparently people that watch sports must not like the sport very much if they’d rather watch than play.

Apparently people that watch music performances must not like the music very much if they’d rather watch than play it themselves.

Apparently people that watch TV/movies must not like the their lives very much if they’d rather watch events through imaginary characters than experience them firsthand.

The difference there being that those levels of activities require years of dedicated training.I get you'd watch a championship of a game because that's not a playing field the average Joe can access.What i don't get is why you'd watch another average Joe play

The top streamers might seem like normal average joes to you but most of them have made a stupidly large pile of money competing in some cases at the international level in gaming. They got rich some of them playing games at a level that would simply make you or me quit if we had to play them everyday at "that" game. It is like anything else people do professionally for money. Many might do it but few master and claim it as their own.

It might be unpopular here to mention this stuff and you might not find the games some of them play regularly amusing but there are a couple streamers that often are playing PUBG and other FPS games that crush people like they never even existed and do it calmly no matter what happens. I love seeing that. I love seeing in their eyes the pain of losing to an amateur and the process going on back there or learning and then being a performer and keeping it all down while they genuinely say GG when the other play got the drop and won in a fair fight. I love watching people perform. The average joes are there as well they are just the ones with fewer viewers often or in some cases are diamonds in the rough that have not figured out their brand yet. I find the come up and the fight to survive in that world and on twitch highly amusing. the same as singers, actors, and other artists that I enjoy.

In the words of the great philosopher Rodney Danderfield from Back to School (1986):I have only one thing

to say to you today,

it's a jungle out thereYou gotta look outfor number oneBut don't step in number two.And so,to all you graduates...as you go out into the worldmy advice to you is...

don't go!

It's rough out there.Move back with your parentsLet them worry about it.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

Never said it is and it's irrelevant to what you or I have said. There are people that can play [pick a sport], but at the given time choose to watch it instead, which doesn't magically make them abandon active participation in the near future OR make [said sport] FUNDAMENTALLY wrong/bad/whatever you want to call it. Your statement is just false no matter how you choose to paint it.

Hey, it's your choice if you want to look at that statement and take it out of context. We are, after all, in a forum talking about video games ... but if you want to have an academic argument if what I said applies outside of the scope of the discussion I'm taking part in, you will have to do it without me. Have fun.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

Never said it is and it's irrelevant to what you or I have said. There are people that can play [pick a sport], but at the given time choose to watch it instead, which doesn't magically make them abandon active participation in the near future OR make [said sport] FUNDAMENTALLY wrong/bad/whatever you want to call it. Your statement is just false no matter how you choose to paint it.

Hey, it's your choice if you want to look at that statement and take it out of context.

Nothing I commented on here was out of context. You just have nothing to say, so it's time for your regular disappearance act, gj :)

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was
incorrect
and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content
worth
watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was
incorrect
and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content
worth
watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was
incorrect
and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content
worth
watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched
the most
on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was
incorrect
and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content
worth
watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched
the most
on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

What do mean
'still'
saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

It is what you said in the first place.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

How does this not imply you are saying "games that are watched and not played have something wrong with them" because that is exactly what you said, meant and implied with this post.

I'm not trying to draw you out, I'm trying to understand the zig-zagging logic and perspective that keeps happening with you.

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Watching games and twitch is popular.

The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

Unless you are Amish...maybe.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:Watching games and twitch is popular.

The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

Unless you are Amish...maybe.

i agree

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was
incorrect
and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content
worth
watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched
the most
on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

What do mean
'still'
saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

lmao, it's like you don't even understand what you keep writing :lol:

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

That doesn't even
sound
accurate much less look it.

That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

None of that makes any sense.

Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play
and
watch along with said streamers and provided information to
support
it. That they wath
because
they play and
because
they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to
why
GW2 isn't being watched
does not
make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was
incorrect
and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content
worth
watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched
the most
on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

What do mean
'still'
saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

It is what you said in the first place.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

How does this not imply you are saying "games that are watched and not played have something wrong with them" because that is exactly what you said, meant and implied with this post.

I'm not trying to draw you out, I'm trying to understand the zig-zagging logic and perspective that keeps happening with you.

There isn't a zig zag ... I was clear. I'm not getting into some convoluted argument about a simple point that I have made more than once that other players have affirmed as well. You can keep asking me what I mean in all the different ways you can think of ... but at this point, I don't think I can explain it in a way you will understand it.

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:Watching games and twitch is popular.

The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

Unless you are Amish...maybe.

I dunno ... old folks got lots of money ... IF Anet makes any revenue at all from twitch, it's certainly not close to what they get from people playing and buying gems.

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