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low effort suggestion to help increase player activity in raids


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@zealex.9410 said:

@Glider.5792 said:If you want to increase activity, you need to make raids easier, NOT harder.

I assume that mean the raiding scene grew with wing 6? If the scene is to grow they need to make raids both easier and harder, make nm a couple wipes kind of deal and make the cms something that will take 2 or 3 days to clear on release.

The problem is they are still to hard for the majority of players to try. I havent done it yet myself, but ive looked up videos and its mostly just doing the mechanics and not dying, but you do have to have a certain level of competence that is pretty lacking across this player base.

Honestly: Raid difficulty levels seems likes a good idea(Heresy i know, please dont kill me), Easy, normal., Hard, Impossible(CM essentially). With the bosses dropping more loot depending on the level(You can still get all the rewards on easy, just takes quite a bit longer). Easy and Normal would be once a week for rewards as well, while Hard and Impossible could be ran more than once with diminishing returns per repeated trys.

Nah just 2, nm and cm make nm easier and cm harder. The more dificulties the more resources it will take. And i think the weekly deal they run now in is fine.

That works too i suppose!

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The current raid community cannout survive a difficulty option now. That option should had been put on the very first raids.

If you put dificulty now, you will spread one already small part of the community into little bubbles that will burst sooner...

The option is no longer viable...

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@Condutas.3580 said:The current raid community cannout survive a difficulty option now. That option should had been put on the very first raids.

If you put dificulty now, you will spread one already small part of the community into little bubbles that will burst sooner...

The option is no longer viable...

Actually it would still help i think,. Adding a mode that easy enough for the vast majority of GW2 players to get into raids would increase the numbers attempting raids, while the current raid community would not appreciate it, perhaps thats for the best and overall future health of the game. I dont know, im not ANET, and nobody here really knows either.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:I agree that rewards are way more important than CMs. Better rewards increase Raid popularity, CMs keep current Raiders busy for a bit longer.But even more important than rewards I think it's the popularity of the game as a whole as those joining -just for raids- shouldn't be any kind of high number. Maybe they'll stay and enjoy Raids more than anything else, but I can't imagine anyone reading about Guild Wars 2 and saying "I'll play this game because it has the best Raids". Arenanet should put some serious effort in bringing new players in.Fair point. Indeed, the bigger the game population, the bigger the pool every game mode can recruit from. And of course the bigger the game popularity, the more new players, not only for the game overall, but also for each of those modes. And GW2 doesn't seem to be growing at the moment.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Glider.5792 said:If you want to increase activity, you need to make raids easier, NOT harder.

I assume that mean the raiding scene grew with wing 6?No. It grew with wing 4, and decreased with 5. Wing 6, while easier than 5, was by no means easy. It also was too little too late - by that time interest in raids was already dropping.

If the scene is to grow they need to make raids both easier and harder, make nm a couple wipes kind of deal and make the cms something that will take 2 or 3 days to clear on release.Precisely. Although i am afraid it might be too late for that.

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@Condutas.3580 said:The current raid community cannout survive a difficulty option now. That option should had been put on the very first raids.

If you put dificulty now, you will spread one already small part of the community into little bubbles that will burst sooner...

The option is no longer viable...

The community can revitalise if it get good content in a consistend cadence. Similarly to how pvp can revitalise if they add a god damn 2v2 q >:^(

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@"Dante.1763" said:Actually it would still help i think,. Adding a mode that easy enough for the vast majority of GW2 players to get into raids would increase the numbers attempting raids, while the current raid community would not appreciate it, perhaps thats for the best and overall future health of the game. I dont know, im not ANET, and nobody here really knows either.

I'm not sure a mode that is "easy for the majority" will do anything to increase the population of actual Raids. And no I wouldn't call such a mode a "Raid" anymore, that's instanced open world. Just like similar Raid "modes" in other games they are never used to get more people to play the actual Raids. So not sure what the point would be in adding an instanced version of open world content.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:Just like similar Raid "modes" in other games they are never used to get more people to play the actual Raids.True, the main point is to justify resources expenditure on normal raids. It's easier to spend resources on a content meant for majority of players (and get a higher difficulty mode meant for a small minority as a byproduct), than spend almost the same amount of resources just for that small minority. The first option is way more efficient resource-wise. And if it will cause a small percentage of players to graduate from one mode to another? That's an added bonus, not main goal.

That's because raids in a game like gw2 to keep the minority they are aimed at engaged, require resources that are vastly disproportionate to the size of the raid community.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dante.1763" said:Actually it would still help i think,. Adding a mode that easy enough for the vast majority of GW2 players to get into raids would increase the numbers attempting raids, while the current raid community would not appreciate it, perhaps thats for the best and overall future health of the game. I dont know, im not ANET, and nobody here really knows either.

I'm not sure a mode that is "easy for the majority" will do anything to increase the population of actual Raids. And no I wouldn't call such a mode a "Raid" anymore, that's instanced open world. Just like similar Raid "modes" in other games they are never used to get more people to play the actual Raids. So not sure what the point would be in adding an instanced version of open world content.

Its just more ppl that get to see what the devs made even if it is an easier version. Raids have environments, unique enemies, loot, collections, lore, music etc. Thats stuff that you can experience and largely apreciate without having a hard or easy tag. If it gets more ppl to be interested in the game for longer and log in more often then why not?

Also, i just see a diff value to isntanced content as oposed to ow content, for one i like the smaller, more controled scale of it which makes senae for the encounters. similarly i apreciate ow content for its massiveness which makes sense for these massive encounters (be it world bosses or metas). Besides, in my opinion a nm raid regardless how easy it gets should always be something that if a completely clueless group ventures in will wipe at for at least a couple of times. Thats not really the experience you get from ow.

It's easier to spend resources on a content meant for majority of players (and get a higher difficulty mode meant for a small minority as a byproduct)

I think cm should get a good bit of attention because its easier to make a cm and the start toning down or removing mechanics/boss phases instead of making the nm then trying to fit in mechanics to it. Also unlike nm it works as aspirational content, that content ppl outide the game will be told of and will show some interest in experiencing, u dont want that to get the attention of a byproduct. Thats part of the reason why WoW and FF14 have adopted the aproach of releasing nm first then after like 2 or 3 weeks they release the cm, it allows them time to see how players react to the nm as well as time to more finely tune the cm itself. It also makes the game feel busier if stuffs happening more often than once every 3-4 months.

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  1. Greatly increase rewards for duplicate boss kills (ie, incentivize joining pugs even if you've already cleared that week).
  2. Either lower raid size to 5 man, or allow Chrono to give 10 man quickness/alacrity. Similarly, allow FB to give 10 man quickness.
  3. Continue broadening the range of viable healers, tanks, and DPS.
  4. Nerf the "pug killer" mechanics and mechanics that require extremely specific roles (Sabetha cannons, Xera leylines, Deimos hands).
  5. Improve raid-specific UI elements (eg, the ability to see a raid member's toughness).
  6. Put in worthwhile rewards for W5 and upwards. Weapon skins that look worse than gemstore skins ain't it.

Any one of these would be a decent step towards saving raids.

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Make at least 2 difficulties of raids. Right now raids are to hard fo casuals to do, and to easy for veterans. And give related rewards for these. A bit of gold for easy mode and shiton of rewards for harder mode.Right now farming dragonfall gives just a bit less rewards than doing raid fc in decent time. Ppl should think :"if I improve I can make shiton of gold in raids so I'll start to use my brain now"Also make Cms repeatable and give rewards for it.

Personally I don't do raids anymore cuz I don't feel rewarded enough - Yea yea I got some random asc boxes but plz, it's not rly worth the skill wer putting into it if u look at dragonfall or sv

Edit: I also stopped playing cuz w7 qadim is trash and I lost faith in future design of raids

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@Glider.5792 said:If you want to increase activity, you need to make raids easier, NOT harder.Making them harder will only be great for more experienced and hardcore community (which is leaving the game, woop woop).

title reward is a good compromise if we cannot have extra loot.

Soo, we would do it once for the title instead of loot ? This achieves litteraly nothing.

See i dont agree, unless anet is willing to have multiple difficulty raids ala wow, then i think raids are fine as they are. I personally have not done 7 but raiders i know that have say its not very difficult. Lowering the bar is never a good idea, instead teach people to play better. If you want something to be easy then you are looking for an LFG auto system like wow uses, and i can tell you those lfg groups still wipe because mechanics.

I dont have a problem with it if they want to add a less hard mode for raids, i have a problem if that will be the only mode.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Make at least 2 difficulties of raids. Right now raids are to hard fo casuals to do, and to easy for veterans.

They are not hard for casuals to do. They are hard for casual pugs to do. There is a difference

I really would like to see the statistics how many percent of ppl only pug. Like daily fractals. This number must be huge. Lost potential for raids...

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@Zuldari.3940 said:

@Glider.5792 said:If you want to increase activity, you need to make raids easier, NOT harder.Making them harder will only be great for more experienced and hardcore community (which is leaving the game, woop woop).

title reward is a good compromise if we cannot have extra loot.

Soo, we would do it once for the title instead of loot ? This achieves litteraly nothing.

See i dont agree, unless anet is willing to have multiple difficulty raids ala wow, then i think raids are fine as they are. I personally have not done 7 but raiders i know that have say its not very difficult. Lowering the bar is never a good idea, instead teach people to play better. If you want something to be easy then you are looking for an LFG auto system like wow uses, and i can tell you those lfg groups still wipe because mechanics.

I dont have a problem with it if they want to add a less hard mode for raids, i have a problem if that will be the only mode.

Raids are already easy enough, and thats the problem. They are too easy for experienced, but too hard for most of the community. At this point, raids are just losing players, since it doesnt appeal to either. Either make em easier or harder, or bring different dificulties.

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@Glider.5792 said:

@Glider.5792 said:If you want to increase activity, you need to make raids easier, NOT harder.Making them harder will only be great for more experienced and hardcore community (which is leaving the game, woop woop).

title reward is a good compromise if we cannot have extra loot.

Soo, we would do it once for the title instead of loot ? This achieves litteraly nothing.

See i dont agree, unless anet is willing to have multiple difficulty raids ala wow, then i think raids are fine as they are. I personally have not done 7 but raiders i know that have say its not very difficult. Lowering the bar is never a good idea, instead teach people to play better. If you want something to be easy then you are looking for an LFG auto system like wow uses, and i can tell you those lfg groups still wipe because mechanics.

I dont have a problem with it if they want to add a less hard mode for raids, i have a problem if that will be the only mode.

Raids are already easy enough, and thats the problem. They are too easy for experienced, but too hard for most of the community. At this point, raids are just losing players, since it doesnt appeal to either. Either make em easier or harder, or bring different dificulties.

I think that ship has sailed. The raiders that are left are adamant about not making it easy enough for the rest of the community to access, while wanting to complain about the lack of people, and even if they made them harder, i doubt they would bring back the players who have already left.

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How would throwing a title onto CM's or making harder raids help raid activity? The way I see it, the problem with raids is that the casual player thinks the content is already too hardcore (JOIN A TRAINING GUILD IN THE RIGHT TIMEZONE, WATCH HOURS OF YOUTUBE BEFORE TRYING, FIND A 100 KP CHAT CODE, PERUSE AN EMPTY LFG ASIDE FROM TWO OR THREE RAID SELLERS - ain't nobody got time for that after school/work). Throwing a single-use title reward to hardcore raiders probably won't fix that.

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@Westenev.5289 said:How would throwing a title onto CM's or making harder raids help raid activity? The way I see it, the problem with raids is that the casual player thinks the content is already too hardcore (JOIN A TRAINING GUILD IN THE RIGHT TIMEZONE, WATCH HOURS OF YOUTUBE BEFORE TRYING, FIND A 100 KP CHAT CODE, PERUSE AN EMPTY LFG ASIDE FROM TWO OR THREE RAID SELLERS - ain't nobody got time for that after school/work). Throwing a single-use title reward to hardcore raiders probably won't fix that.

  • you can watch like a 10 min vid per boss, i don't think that's outrageous.
  • LFG activity is low because anet doesn't do anything for months and lets content stagnate for months even with glaring problems.
  • If you're the kind of player that uses chat codes to fake kp, you'll likely get kicked for trying to join groups expecting to get carried. It's very apparent when someone doesn't know what they are doing.
  • harder raids will appeal to raiders more as they can't just blow through the content in 2 hours after release. The general skill of raiders has grown and we constantly crave a challenge.
  • If you don't want to join a training guild, make your own progression groups and learn as you go with others. That's more fun than going with randoms anyway.
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@The one to Rule.2593 said:

@"Westenev.5289" said:How would throwing a title onto CM's or making harder raids help raid activity? The way I see it, the problem with raids is that the casual player thinks the content is already too hardcore (JOIN A TRAINING GUILD IN THE RIGHT TIMEZONE, WATCH HOURS OF YOUTUBE BEFORE TRYING, FIND A 100 KP CHAT CODE, PERUSE AN EMPTY LFG ASIDE FROM TWO OR THREE RAID SELLERS - ain't nobody got time for that after school/work). Throwing a single-use title reward to hardcore raiders probably won't fix that.
  • you can watch like a 10 min vid per boss, i don't think that's outrageous.
  • LFG activity is low because anet doesn't do anything for months and lets content stagnate for months even with glaring problems.
  • If you're the kind of player that uses chat codes to fake kp, you'll likely get kicked for trying to join groups expecting to get carried. It's very apparent when someone doesn't know what they are doing.
  • harder raids will appeal to raiders more as they can't just blow through the content in 2 hours after release. The general skill of raiders has grown and we constantly crave a challenge.
  • If you don't want to join a training guild, make your own progression groups and learn as you go with others. That's more fun than going with randoms anyway.

You don't have to convince me; I'm happy to pretend raids don't exist out of spite, and laugh at the current perception that "there aren't enough people interested in raids" in one of the most populated mmo's on the market.

But that wasn't what my post was about. What I'm saying that the current "git gud, study moar, join a guild of strangers" mentality will turn off a lot of "casual" players who often use these excuses, since the entry barrier can seem excessively high if you don't have raider friends (or, well, any friends to begin with...). If you want more casual players trying raids, someone needs to break down these steriotypes - not throw more titles to raiders who probably don't want or need them.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:How would throwing a title onto CM's or making harder raids help raid activity? The way I see it, the problem with raids is that the casual player thinks the content is already too hardcore (JOIN A TRAINING GUILD IN THE RIGHT TIMEZONE, WATCH HOURS OF YOUTUBE BEFORE TRYING, FIND A 100 KP CHAT CODE, PERUSE AN EMPTY LFG ASIDE FROM TWO OR THREE RAID SELLERS - ain't nobody got time for that after school/work). Throwing a single-use title reward to hardcore raiders probably won't fix that.
  • you can watch like a 10 min vid per boss, i don't think that's outrageous.
  • LFG activity is low because anet doesn't do anything for months and lets content stagnate for months even with glaring problems.
  • If you're the kind of player that uses chat codes to fake kp, you'll likely get kicked for trying to join groups expecting to get carried. It's very apparent when someone doesn't know what they are doing.
  • harder raids will appeal to raiders more as they can't just blow through the content in 2 hours after release. The general skill of raiders has grown and we constantly crave a challenge.
  • If you don't want to join a training guild, make your own progression groups and learn as you go with others. That's more fun than going with randoms anyway.

You don't have to convince me; I'm happy to pretend raids don't exist out of spite, and laugh at the current perception that "there aren't enough people interested in raids" in one of the most populated mmo's on the market.

But that wasn't what my post was about. What I'm saying that the current "git gud, study moar, join a guild of strangers" mentality will turn off a lot of "casual" players who often use these excuses, since the entry barrier can seem excessively high if you don't have raider friends (or, well, any friends to begin with...). If you want more casual players trying raids, someone needs to break down these steriotypes - not throw more titles to raiders who probably don't want or need them.

Agree with the general sentiment but I think what the casual community needs is not something that the current raiding population can/will reasonably provide. The barrier of entry is so high because the game does such a terrible job at raising the average player. In open world and story, you are never required to interact with your traits, utilities, alternate weapon sets, or change stats on your gear. You can beat all of the open world content and story by auto attacking. I'm not a huge fan of taking current raids and making easy mode versions but I am willing to support content like freezies lair and actual tutorials that explain what a cc bar is, when to use stability, how to use reflects, how to do damage etc. Raise the average skill level of the player base so theres not a 600% difference between a random open worlder and a veteran raider and you'll see the demand for strict requirements start to lessen.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:How would throwing a title onto CM's or making harder raids help raid activity? The way I see it, the problem with raids is that the casual player thinks the content is already too hardcore (JOIN A TRAINING GUILD IN THE RIGHT TIMEZONE, WATCH HOURS OF YOUTUBE BEFORE TRYING, FIND A 100 KP CHAT CODE, PERUSE AN EMPTY LFG ASIDE FROM TWO OR THREE RAID SELLERS - ain't nobody got time for that after school/work). Throwing a single-use title reward to hardcore raiders probably won't fix that.
  • you can watch like a 10 min vid per boss, i don't think that's outrageous.
  • LFG activity is low because anet doesn't do anything for months and lets content stagnate for months even with glaring problems.
  • If you're the kind of player that uses chat codes to fake kp, you'll likely get kicked for trying to join groups expecting to get carried. It's very apparent when someone doesn't know what they are doing.
  • harder raids will appeal to raiders more as they can't just blow through the content in 2 hours after release. The general skill of raiders has grown and we constantly crave a challenge.
  • If you don't want to join a training guild, make your own progression groups and learn as you go with others. That's more fun than going with randoms anyway.

You don't have to convince me; I'm happy to pretend raids don't exist out of spite, and laugh at the current perception that "there aren't enough people interested in raids" in one of the most populated mmo's on the market.

But that wasn't what my post was about. What I'm saying that the current "git gud, study moar, join a guild of strangers" mentality will turn off a lot of "casual" players who often use these excuses, since the entry barrier can seem excessively high if you don't have raider friends (or, well, any friends to begin with...). If you want more casual players trying raids, someone needs to break down these steriotypes - not throw more titles to raiders who probably don't want or need them.

I mean the point of my post wasn't to convince you not to raid or pretend that raids don't exist out of spite. If asking people to watch some vids of the fights is too much, id argue that maybe gaming in general isn't their cup of tea. It takes literally 0 effort to do so in your free time.

People get kicked for faking kp because instead of being open and honest about their exp they lie and try to pull sneaky stuff like that. I'd much rather a newbie tell me he's new because chances are i can teach him relatively fast and there's no false expectation that we won't have to carry someone through it.

My point is that for those of us who do regularly raid, the rewards aren't all that wonderful some currency and maybe an ascended drop isnt exciting to those of us who have 15 sets of ascended. I don't care about titles personally i would want more monetary rewards than 2g for a CM kill as that takes considerably more effort than anything else in the game.

As it stands currently there's no reason to do CMS once you have done them once.

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