WVW-is this the endgame mode

[Obtena.7952]

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.I can't seem to agree with this? What the hell does a WvW player need gold for? Used to be paying for siege and upgrades but....that's years ago. Please don't say transferring.

It's easy to not agree with it ... because it's nonsense. There is no way in hell all the WvW players are supporting the game with gem sales to such an extent for the lions share of dev time and effort to be put towards PVE content. The ocean doesn't have this much salt.

And what about the people with feet in both ponds so to speak?>

What about them? It doesn't change the fact that there isn't more revenue coming from WvW players keeping this game going for the benefit of PVE players like the poster wants us to think. That makes NO sense. The revenues are going to split approximately along the percentages of players in the game modes. If a player splits their time over more than one, so to does the revenue they contribute to the game. Anet knows where the money is coming from ... they are going to ensure those players are the most catered to. If the money was coming from WvW ... WvW would be getting updates ALL time.

You mention that Anet seems to be driven by pure economics, then you seem to ignore the fact that server transfers are a huge cash cow for Anet, by your logic PVP,WVW and SPVP , the three end game modes are not populated by people spending on gems...well, its not a good assumption, why>?a. People spend money and play all game modes, the guys from wvw have been forced to pve to get stuff used on their equips, we all have time and time again gone on pve maps to farm for our shinies!b. The fact that you trust Anet to make correct decisions about picking the right area to spend their time and efforts on, are essentially what this post is all about, they ignored plain and simple the 3 end game modes everyone have mentioned on this post and focused only on living story and raids, now i don't know how many exactly raid, but i can tell you one thing for a fact, the raiders are so exclusive a club of people that they literally have one main discord channel and forming parties are a nightmare in the waiting, so many pay to carry them. I really dont think such a small percentage of the player base needs to get as many updates as Anet have given out so far.c. Also, finally, it is not healthy for any game to ignore not one but 3 game modes and focus on 1, especially since player population are what a company who is offering a free MMO is looking for, if you want numbers, then competitive game modes are what everyone is selling in the market. You can call the living story competitive, if you want, since that's your logic of how economics of scale work. But out there in the real world, every f2p game company needs more players, money will come if there is a momentum, but sadly, expecting players to focus on one game mode aka pve is certainly short sighted and lacking any sort of vision.

I'm not ignoring anything. The reality is that if WvW players were bringing in the majority of the revenue, Anet would be plowing their investments back into it to keep that revenue flowing. That's not happening, so it's REALLY easy to conclude where the money is not coming from.

You don't even need to think very hard here. Just imagine what the game would look like if 100% of the revenue came from WvW players ... nobody with a clue would think Anet is investing any significant amount of effort, time or money in PVE or PVP if that was the case. That shouldn't be a logical Chasm for anyone to understand. Yet here we are ... a whole bunch people thinking most of the money comes from WvW players while almost no WvW developments are being made. It's certainly not aiding any agenda people may have to get Anet to pay more attention to WvW. If you can't admit this is the case, you don't have a case to make.

[XenesisII.1540]

@SoV.5139 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Yeah you wvw freeloaders that never buy the expansions or anything on the gem store, you thank the pve people!

How did the pile of firebrands and scourges on every map not buy the expansions? Inquiring minds want to know. ?

It was a joke... read my follow up post...

[XenesisII.1540]

@Obtena.7952 said:I'm not ignoring anything. The reality is that if WvW players were bringing in the majority of the revenue, Anet would be plowing their investments back into it to keep that revenue flowing. That's not happening.

No the reality is anet ignored wvw for a good portion of it's early life and now people like you think it's the players fault they didn't sink money into it. They released a game that catered to 3 types of players, they didn't invest in all 3, they gave pve most of their development time for living story and expansions, they gave spvp esports tournaments. Meanwhile anet helped bandwagon wvw servers, served up tournaments to obvious winners, ran broken exploited week events without a single word, pushed out a sorry excuse of a converted pve map for wvw, gave no kittens about broken specs unless it was something that could be abused on their precious raids, took 5 years before they could implement a decent reward structure. Wasn't until 2016 when HoT was sinking wvw that they had to push stuff out to stop the bleeding, alpine map back in rotation, fixing desert, links, skirmish mode.

Don't expect people to be happy for all those 7 years and keep investing back into that. It's a two way street, you invest in development of areas of a game to keep those players interested and happy to play, when you don't, they won't invest back or they outright leave, which is what has been happening for wvw. The same will happen for pve if they don't bother with anymore expansions or don't release anymore of the important new features those expansions usually bring. Relying only on living story will only get them on to maintenance mode down the road.

[Obtena.7952]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I'm not ignoring anything. The reality is that if WvW players were bringing in the majority of the revenue, Anet would be plowing their investments back into it to keep that revenue flowing. That's not happening.

No the reality is anet ignored wvw for a good portion of it's early life and now people like you think it's the players fault they didn't sink money into it. They released a game that catered to 3 types of players, they didn't invest in all 3, they gave pve most of their development time for living story and expansions, they gave spvp esports tournaments, meanwhile anet helped bandwagon wvw servers, served up tournaments to obvious winners, ran broken exploited week events without a single word, pushed out a sorry excuse of a converted pve map for wvw, gave no kittens about broken specs unless it was something that could be abused on their precious raids, took 5 years before they could implement a decent reward structure. Wasn't until 2016 when HoT was sinking wvw that they had to push stuff out to stop the bleeding, alpine map back in rotation, fixing desert, links, skirmish mode.

Don't expect people to be happy for all those 7 years and keep investing back into that. It's a two way street, you invest in development of areas of a game to keep those players interested and happy to play, when you don't, they won't invest back or they outright leave, which is what has been happening for wvw.

That's doesn't change what I said. I'm not making any hypothesis about how we got to this situation nor do I have any interest discussing it because frankly it's not all that relevant. The fact I'm making here is that at the highest level, investments in the game go to where the revenue comes from because it keep the revenue flowing in the right direction. There might be some variations if Anet wants to push something, but generally, what I'm saying is a sound business practice.

If anything ... if what you say is accurate, it probably points to the the fact that WvW players weren't spending very much on the game compared to PVE PVP, so the investment dropped accordingly. These aren't hysterical or crazy ideas. Successful businesses do not continually to plow money into poor performance areas of their businesses.

[XenesisII.1540]

Yeah no kidding. If you're not interested in a discussion, dunno why you're in a forum.

[Obtena.7952]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Yeah no kidding. If you're not interested in a discussion, dunno why you're in a forum.

What discussion are you looking for? The one where people say nonsensical things about who's spending the most money to push an agenda? You're in it, because that's exactly the discussion that people were making in this thread.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:@sephiroth.4217

I am certain you are wasting your breath. (Or fingers lol). The poster you are replying to doesn’t understand where WvW has come from and how much the average player had to spend in gold on a frequent basis in the first few years.

Nor the amount of gold needed to progress in their professions... As playing PvE was never their intent,

Yea its sort of why I stopped reading his responses...Early days were expensive with tower upgrades or the fast craft to 80..

[Obtena.7952]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:@sephiroth.4217

I am certain you are wasting your breath. (Or fingers lol). The poster you are replying to doesn’t understand where WvW has come from and how much the average player had to spend in gold on a frequent basis in the first few years.

Nor the amount of gold needed to progress in their professions... As playing PvE was never their intent,

Yea its sort of why I stopped reading his responses...Early days were expensive with tower upgrades or the fast craft to 80..

What you spent is irrelevant. If the majority of revenue was coming from WvW ... then that's where Anet would be focusing it's investment.

[sephiroth.4217]

Huh?Nevermind, thought I heard something.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Was it alliances?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@sephiroth.4217 said:Huh?Nevermind, thought I heard something.

Had a post removed a bit ago lol.

Yeah. That expense on tower/keep upgrades really hit hard but most either choose to ignore the dedication to the mode both with purchases of gold to keep the mode going and the willingness to play the mode despite effectively getting ignored.

Unfortunately, by being so dedicated to a mostly forgotten end game mode, we likely made it seem like we were content with getting nothing.

I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that it was advertised as having three main modes. One has always been the stepchild.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:@sephiroth.4217

I am certain you are wasting your breath. (Or fingers lol). The poster you are replying to doesn’t understand where WvW has come from and how much the average player had to spend in gold on a frequent basis in the first few years.

Nor the amount of gold needed to progress in their professions... As playing PvE was never their intent,

Yea its sort of why I stopped reading his responses...Early days were expensive with tower upgrades or the fast craft to 80..

[Sovereign.1093]

for me it is the game. it may not be popular as pve but, after a long days work of commanding my work force, its fun commanding my team mates. @.@;;

[Bandwagon.4512]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:WVW players put the same if not more money in to the game as a PvE player.PVE players farm thousands of golds, WvW buys hundreds of golds.So YOU should be thanking us for YOUR living stories and huge amounts of pve content.I can't seem to agree with this? What the hell does a WvW player need gold for? Used to be paying for siege and upgrades but....that's years ago. Please don't say transferring.

It's easy to not agree with it ... because it's nonsense. There is no way in hell all the WvW players are supporting the game with gem sales to such an extent for the lions share of dev time and effort to be put towards PVE content. The ocean doesn't have this much salt.

And what about the people with feet in both ponds so to speak?>

What about them? It doesn't change the fact that there isn't more revenue coming from WvW players keeping this game going for the benefit of PVE players like the poster wants us to think. That makes NO sense. The revenues are going to split approximately along the percentages of players in the game modes. If a player splits their time over more than one, so to does the revenue they contribute to the game. Anet knows where the money is coming from ... they are going to ensure those players are the most catered to. If the money was coming from WvW ... WvW would be getting updates ALL time.

You mention that Anet seems to be driven by pure economics, then you seem to ignore the fact that server transfers are a huge cash cow for Anet, by your logic PVP,WVW and SPVP , the three end game modes are not populated by people spending on gems...well, its not a good assumption, why>?a. People spend money and play all game modes, the guys from wvw have been forced to pve to get stuff used on their equips, we all have time and time again gone on pve maps to farm for our shinies!b. The fact that you trust Anet to make correct decisions about picking the right area to spend their time and efforts on, are essentially what this post is all about, they ignored plain and simple the 3 end game modes everyone have mentioned on this post and focused only on living story and raids, now i don't know how many exactly raid, but i can tell you one thing for a fact, the raiders are so exclusive a club of people that they literally have one main discord channel and forming parties are a nightmare in the waiting, so many pay to carry them. I really dont think such a small percentage of the player base needs to get as many updates as Anet have given out so far.c. Also, finally, it is not healthy for any game to ignore not one but 3 game modes and focus on 1, especially since player population are what a company who is offering a free MMO is looking for, if you want numbers, then competitive game modes are what everyone is selling in the market. You can call the living story competitive, if you want, since that's your logic of how economics of scale work. But out there in the real world, every f2p game company needs more players, money will come if there is a momentum, but sadly, expecting players to focus on one game mode aka pve is certainly short sighted and lacking any sort of vision.

I'm not ignoring anything. The reality is that if WvW players were bringing in the majority of the revenue, Anet would be plowing their investments back into it to keep that revenue flowing. That's not happening, so it's REALLY easy to conclude where the money is not coming from.

You don't even need to think very hard here. Just imagine what the game would look like if 100% of the revenue came from WvW players ... nobody with a clue would think Anet is investing any significant amount of effort, time or money in PVE or PVP if that was the case. That shouldn't be a logical Chasm for anyone to understand. Yet here we are ... a whole bunch people thinking most of the money comes from WvW players while almost no WvW developments are being made. It's certainly not aiding any agenda people may have to get Anet to pay more attention to WvW. If you can't admit this is the case, you don't have a case to make.

I will just copy paste what i wrote earlierc. Also, finally, it is not healthy for any game to ignore not one but 3 game modes and focus on 1, especially since player population are what a company who is offering a free MMO is looking for, if you want numbers, then competitive game modes are what everyone is selling in the market. You can call the living story competitive, if you want, since that's your logic of how economics of scale work. But out there in the real world, every f2p game company needs more players, money will come if there is a momentum, but sadly, expecting players to focus on one game mode aka pve is certainly short sighted and lacking any sort of vision.So no, i never mentioned that 100% or heck even 50% of the revenues were coming from WVW, what i mentioned was you are running a game based on player hours put in, And on all three game modes, Spvp/Pvp/Wvw , and especially WVW people have put in much longer hours than your average maps, if you want to ignore player hours in a f2p game and are focused on the Pve maps alone(where admittedly the players tend to stay only on the current loot meta) , then i have only one thing to tell you...I'm happy that you will get a chance to enjoy some new and exciting content going to be revealed on the 30th Aug, enjoy the game!Also, how does PVE map correlate to spending on Gems?? You mean no one else buys that shiny mount or cool looking armor, just the players who are focused on PVE maps do it? I hope you meant what you typed and are not trolling, i really do.

[Chorazin.4107]

Even as an 'end game' there was never any char progression in WvW, DAoC at least had the realm abilities so you still kind of felt like your char was growing. Only a few more points and I can purchase that next ability!

This game I got extra carry capacity zzzzzzzzzzz

[Obtena.7952]

@Bandwagon.4512 said:c. Also, finally, it is not healthy for any game to ignore not one but 3 game modes and focus on 1, especially since player population are what a company who is offering a free MMO is looking for, if you want numbers, then competitive game modes are what everyone is selling in the market. You can call the living story competitive, if you want, since that's your logic of how economics of scale work. But out there in the real world, every f2p game company needs more players, money will come if there is a momentum, but sadly, expecting players to focus on one game mode aka pve is certainly short sighted and lacking any sort of vision.So no, i never mentioned that 100% or heck even 50% of the revenues were coming from WVW, what i mentioned was you are running a game based on player hours put in, And on all three game modes, Spvp/Pvp/Wvw , and especially WVW people have put in much longer hours than your average maps, if you want to ignore player hours in a f2p game and are focused on the Pve maps alone(where admittedly the players tend to stay only on the current loot meta) , then i have only one thing to tell you...I'm happy that you will get a chance to enjoy some new and exciting content going to be revealed on the 30th Aug, enjoy the game!Also, how does PVE map correlate to spending on Gems?? You mean no one else buys that shiny mount or cool looking armor, just the players who are focused on PVE maps do it? I hope you meant what you typed and are not trolling, i really do.

Numbers of hours put into any given mode are irrelevant. You can't pay bills with played hours.

I don't know how PVE map correlate to spending Gems but it's not relevant anyways because players don't need anything particular about different game mode maps to compel them to spend money on gems. If the majority of revenues were coming from WvW players, that's where Anet would be making the majority of their investments.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:c. Also, finally, it is not healthy for any game to ignore not one but 3 game modes and focus on 1, especially since player population are what a company who is offering a free MMO is looking for, if you want numbers, then competitive game modes are what everyone is selling in the market. You can call the living story competitive, if you want, since that's your logic of how economics of scale work. But out there in the real world, every f2p game company needs more players, money will come if there is a momentum, but sadly, expecting players to focus on one game mode aka pve is certainly short sighted and lacking any sort of vision.So no, i never mentioned that 100% or heck even 50% of the revenues were coming from WVW, what i mentioned was you are running a game based on player hours put in, And on all three game modes, Spvp/Pvp/Wvw , and especially WVW people have put in much longer hours than your average maps, if you want to ignore player hours in a f2p game and are focused on the Pve maps alone(where admittedly the players tend to stay only on the current loot meta) , then i have only one thing to tell you...I'm happy that you will get a chance to enjoy some new and exciting content going to be revealed on the 30th Aug, enjoy the game!Also, how does PVE map correlate to spending on Gems?? You mean no one else buys that shiny mount or cool looking armor, just the players who are focused on PVE maps do it? I hope you meant what you typed and are not trolling, i really do.

Numbers of hours put into any given mode are irrelevant. You can't pay bills with played hours.

I don't know how PVE map correlate to spending Gems but it's not relevant anyways because players don't need anything particular about different game mode maps to compel them to spend money on gems. If the majority of revenues were coming from WvW players, that's where Anet would be making the majority of their investments.

If Anet are that stupid... I doubt they would forget simple processes a WvW person goes through when buying gems... Like logging on, loading into a pve map because you dont load strait into WvW... inputting card details or gem card numbers to get that juicy skin you waited for all week before equipping it and heading in to WvW.

Im 100% positive they dont take metrics based on where purchases made otherwise that is the most skewed and unreliable data chart that has ever been made. If they do run off charts like this then it would explain a lot to be honest but I really hope not.

[Obtena.7952]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Im 100% positive they dont take metrics based on where purchases made ...

Based on what? That it opposes your own desire to believe something that is probably untrue? Great. That's amazing. The best part is that even though you don't think Anet does anything to measure their business for sales that we are all supposed to believe that YOU have it all figured out based on your miniscule anecdotal evidence. So if it's so easy for you, why are you so confident Anet does nothing? That makes zero sense.

I'm going to stick with more solid observational evidence ... what area of the game is getting investment? It's not WvW. You were right ... you probably should keep ignoring me because when you don't, it doesn't look good for you.

Based on what I already said... the rest of what you didn't quote.

I don't need to quote it to question it. You don't think Anet is capable of figuring out who spends money and what they do ingame? That's nonsense because we know they measure how much revenue they make, we know it's attached to your account. We know they can measure the time people spend in a game mode because you have to press a key or cross a portal to enter the WVW and PVP game modes.

The only reason you don't want to believe Anet can measure this is because you want to believe your view is the correct one. just wanting something to be true doesn't make it so.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Nah. I won’t walk away, I just don’t engage.

That being said: and back on topic,@sephiroth.4217

I would like to see their metric, but of course that won’t happen for good reasons. I remain positive that they are planning something I am just afraid that something is more skins..,

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

To be fairId rather pay 5euros contribution.to keep the server goingThen pay for a mount i didn't want in the first placeOr a costume since i dont care if my war looks like a princes

[L A T I O N.8923]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

To be fairId rather pay 5euros contribution.to keep the server goingThen pay for a mount i didn't want in the first placeOr a costume since i dont care if my war looks like a princes

And dont get me wrong on thisBut what i meant is: its how you try to put IT on the marketAnd there's plenty of WvW players who Just dont care about stuff on the gemstore, not because it has a pricetag. But because its not important enough to care

[XenesisII.1540]

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

To be fairId rather pay 5euros contribution.to keep the server goingThen pay for a mount i didn't want in the first placeOr a costume since i dont care if my war looks like a princes

And dont get me wrong on thisBut what i meant is: its how you try to put IT on the marketAnd there's plenty of WvW players who Just dont care about stuff on the gemstore, not because it has a pricetag. But because its not important enough to care

Oh I agree believe me, I was one of those opposed to the introduction of the Warclaw.. but we cant have our cake and eat it.. there has to be a business case for spending dev time on certain aspects of the game over more lucrative, time proven elements that are the bread and butter of the games existence, especially when expacs were taken off the table some time back and downsizing has happened of late.

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

To be fairId rather pay 5euros contribution.to keep the server goingThen pay for a mount i didn't want in the first placeOr a costume since i dont care if my war looks like a princes

And dont get me wrong on thisBut what i meant is: its how you try to put IT on the marketAnd there's plenty of WvW players who Just dont care about stuff on the gemstore, not because it has a pricetag. But because its not important enough to care

Oh I agree believe me, I was one of those opposed to the introduction of the Warclaw.. but we cant have our cake and eat it.. there has to be a business case for spending dev time on certain aspects of the game over more lucrative, time proven elements that are the bread and butter of the games existence, especially when expacs were taken off the table some time back and downsizing has happened of late.

Enterprises gotta adapt to the market, not the market to the big cooperationsIts kinda the foundation of the world we live in

[Obtena.7952]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

To be fairId rather pay 5euros contribution.to keep the server goingThen pay for a mount i didn't want in the first placeOr a costume since i dont care if my war looks like a princes

And dont get me wrong on thisBut what i meant is: its how you try to put IT on the marketAnd there's plenty of WvW players who Just dont care about stuff on the gemstore, not because it has a pricetag. But because its not important enough to care

Oh I agree believe me, I was one of those opposed to the introduction of the Warclaw.. but we cant have our cake and eat it.. there has to be a business case for spending dev time on certain aspects of the game over more lucrative, time proven elements that are the bread and butter of the games existence, especially when expacs were taken off the table some time back and downsizing has happened of late.

Enterprises gotta adapt to the market, not the market to the big cooperationsIts kinda the foundation of the world we live in

GW2 IS an example of the MMO gaming industry adapting to the market. That's the primary reason it's successful. GW2 has a number of innovative concepts and how they are also brought together into a game to attract a large and underserved segment of the market is the proof if that.

The notion that GW2 change all the time to continually appease all the different kinds of players in it doesn't make sense. The fact that WvW and PVP are not all that successful in this game are good indicators that the gaming values for the primary section of the market this game attracts clashes with many of the concepts that establish these competitive game modes. We can already see these are largely unreconcilable ...

Warclaw is a great example of this because it fixes problems that most hardcore PVP players don't have a problem with ... yet Anet did it anyways. Again, this is just another example of Anet creating an environment that is more friendly to the majority of people that play it. There are so many hints of what most people in this game want that they are not possible to ignore. The lack of WvW development relative to PVE is just one of many of them.