GW2 ERP TORUNAMENT JUST PASSED 10K Viewers

[Vayne.8563]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I guess the question really becomes, how many of those people watching are Guild Wars 2 players. How many will buy Guild Wars 2. How many would play that content if they bought it. Look, I'm happy that the game got some exposure, but in my opinion, it's the wrong kind of exposure. This isn't a hard core game, and creating the illusion that it is leads to disappointment. Too many hard core players don't feel they have enough content coming out fast enough. In my opinion Anet may not want to attract more of those players.

I guess most of those watching would be players that at least played Guild Wars 2 once or twice. A lot would play the content shown on stream (Raids) and then will leave the game when they realize it takes Arenanet 9 months to release a wing. Exposure is one way to think about it, the other is to show that the 9-month release schedule of raids was a mistake and the content does have a lot of players playing it. If it wasn't on life support it would be much more popular and successful. But Arenanet dropped the ball with Raids, first because they released Raids, and second because they didn't support Raids after releasing them.

See, this is my problem. IF there really was a lot of people playing that content, why would Anet not make it more of a priority? It doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Anet knows how many percentage of the player base raid regularly or have ever raided regularly. I'm guessing if more people did it, as many as you seem to think, they'd have made more raids. Of course, this is only a guess.

My guess is more people hang around farming living story maps and doing metas than ever raid, so they focus on that. If the raiding community consists of 10,000 people, it might not be a big enough percentage of the playerbase as a whole to justify more development dollars than it's getting. It was always going to be a business decision.

[Pirindolo.9427]

Thank God it passed. Such a spam here and in reddit. Not again, please.

[Raknar.4735]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Thank God it passed. Such a spam here and in reddit. Not again, please.

Yeah, it was awful. Even though Tpot himself said to not go crazy, his community can't control itself.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Vayne.8563 said:See, this is my problem. IF there really was a lot of people playing that content, why would Anet not make it more of a priority? It doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Anet knows how many percentage of the player base raid regularly or have ever raided regularly. I'm guessing if more people did it, as many as you seem to think, they'd have made more raids. Of course, this is only a guess.

The company more than doubled with the release of PoF (in terms of employees) did we get enough content to justify that? Not by a long shot. Keep in mind that while raids literally died (9 months for a wing is life support), the rest of the game wasn't any better. Time between episode releases also increased by a lot. My guess is that the other projects they were working on drained a LOT of resources. I can't justify how we get things at a snail's pace ever since PoF was released. And it obviously affected Raids too, I wouldn't expect them to release one episode every 4 months to have a Raid every 6 months, that would make the episode players quit. So I think it's more about bad allocation of resources than a business decision

My guess is more people hang around farming living story maps and doing metas than ever raid, so they focus on that. If the raiding community consists of 10,000 people, it might not be a big enough percentage of the playerbase as a whole to justify more development dollars than it's getting. It was always going to be a business decision.

If the raiding community consists of 10k people, it's a very large percentage of the active players of the game. Also farming living story maps and doing metas is one thing, but one can only guess that the bulk of the episodes are the large maps and the achievements/content that is associated with them. The real question in regards to population is how many players are raiding, compared to how many are actually FINISHING the episodes and not just the story and then farm.

[Vayne.8563]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:See, this is my problem. IF there really was a lot of people playing that content, why would Anet not make it more of a priority? It doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Anet knows how many percentage of the player base raid regularly or have ever raided regularly. I'm guessing if more people did it, as many as you seem to think, they'd have made more raids. Of course, this is only a guess.

The company more than doubled with the release of PoF (in terms of employees) did we get enough content to justify that? Not by a long shot. Keep in mind that while raids literally died (9 months for a wing is life support), the rest of the game wasn't any better. Time between episode releases also increased by a lot. My guess is that the other projects they were working on drained a LOT of resources. I can't justify how we get things at a snail's pace ever since PoF was released. And it obviously affected Raids too, I wouldn't expect them to release one episode every 4 months to have a Raid every 6 months, that would make the episode players quit. So I think it's more about bad allocation of resources than a business decision

My guess is more people hang around farming living story maps and doing metas than ever raid, so they focus on that. If the raiding community consists of 10,000 people, it might not be a big enough percentage of the playerbase as a whole to justify more development dollars than it's getting. It was always going to be a business decision.

If the raiding community consists of 10k people, it's a very large percentage of the active players of the game. Also farming living story maps and doing metas is one thing, but one can only guess that the bulk of the episodes are the large maps and the achievements/content that is associated with them. The real question in regards to population is how many players are raiding, compared to how many are actually FINISHING the episodes and not just the story and then farm.

We don't know the number of active players. If it's 300,000 playing the game, and I'm not saying it is, then 10,000 is not enough of a dent in the population to invest heavily in. And I'm not saying it's 10,000 people raiding either. I'm just using random numbers as an example. I don't think an episode every 4 months would make people quit, btw. That's your assumption but I don't think it's a good one.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:See, this is my problem. IF there really was a lot of people playing that content, why would Anet not make it more of a priority? It doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Anet knows how many percentage of the player base raid regularly or have ever raided regularly. I'm guessing if more people did it, as many as you seem to think, they'd have made more raids. Of course, this is only a guess.

The company more than doubled with the release of PoF (in terms of employees) did we get enough content to justify that? Not by a long shot. Keep in mind that while raids literally died (9 months for a wing is life support), the rest of the game wasn't any better. Time between episode releases also increased by a lot. My guess is that the other projects they were working on drained a LOT of resources. I can't justify how we get things at a snail's pace ever since PoF was released. And it obviously affected Raids too, I wouldn't expect them to release one episode every 4 months to have a Raid every 6 months, that would make the episode players quit. So I think it's more about bad allocation of resources than a business decision

My guess is more people hang around farming living story maps and doing metas than ever raid, so they focus on that. If the raiding community consists of 10,000 people, it might not be a big enough percentage of the playerbase as a whole to justify more development dollars than it's getting. It was always going to be a business decision.

If the raiding community consists of 10k people, it's a very large percentage of the active players of the game. Also farming living story maps and doing metas is one thing, but one can only guess that the bulk of the episodes are the large maps and the achievements/content that is associated with them. The real question in regards to population is how many players are raiding, compared to how many are actually FINISHING the episodes and not just the story and then farm.

We don't know the number of active players. If it's 300,000 playing the game, and I'm not saying it is, then 10,000 is not enough of a dent in the population to invest heavily in. And I'm not saying it's 10,000 people raiding either. I'm just using random numbers as an example. I don't think an episode every 4 months would make people quit, btw. That's your assumption but I don't think it's a good one.

An episode every 3 months surely made lots of players quit, so if it became an episode every 4 months it would surely make even more players quit. As for how many, we don't know the actual numbers, but about half of the gw2efficiency accounts (48%) stopped playing the game between the finale of Path of Fire and War Eternal. More stopped during the expansion and didn't bother to finish it although they bought it. I hope they have a better release cadence with Season 5.

Yesterday there were 17k people interested in GW2 raids. FF14 barely got 10k concurrent players before June 2019 (it exploded since then), now it's at 18k average in the last 30 days. So having 17k players concurrently interested in GW2 Raids is a very good number, and I'm positive not every Raider was even watching the stream, not even close. I'm quite sure there were more people watching the stream yesterday, than online playing the game, unless for some reason GW2 has more active players than FF14, which I really really doubt.

[FOX.3582]

@vyncius.6105 said:

@FOX.3582 said:Thousands of people watching a game they could easily play themselves, yeah, we ain’t all that stupid. Next.

do you watch sports? same thing with esports

I hate it when people say this weak argument. It’s not the same. You can now startup GW2 and play, while you can’t just go play a professional football game in your own, doughnut.

[Xenon.4537]

@Danikat.8537 said:10k of what?

10k viewers. It seemed pretty obvious to me.

[maddoctor.2738]

@FOX.3582 said:

@vyncius.6105 said:

@FOX.3582 said:Thousands of people watching a game they could easily play themselves, yeah, we ain’t all that stupid. Next.

do you watch sports? same thing with esports

I hate it when people say this weak argument. It’s not the same. You can now startup GW2 and play, while you can’t just go play a professional football game in your own, doughnut.

The argument is solid, esports and sports are the same. Nobody would ever watch a football match that takes place in a field behind a random house. But big sports events get millions of viewers. You can't fire up GW2 and go play in the event because it's over now. Also, I really doubt even if you did fire up GW2 you would go and do what they were doing in the event. You can startup GW2 anytime you want, but you would be kicking a ball alone around your backyard, not playing at a major sports event level. That's what makes sports and esports the exact same.

[rchristianhk.3914]

@FOX.3582 said:

I hate it when people say this weak argument. It’s not the same. You can now startup GW2 and play, while you can’t just go play a professional football game in your own, doughnut.It is the same thing actually. You can go and play football with your friends same as you can go and play gw2 raids with your friends. But in both cases it will be different from professional play(same goes for E-sports).

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:See, this is my problem. IF there really was a lot of people playing that content, why would Anet not make it more of a priority? It doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Anet knows how many percentage of the player base raid regularly or have ever raided regularly. I'm guessing if more people did it, as many as you seem to think, they'd have made more raids. Of course, this is only a guess.

The company more than doubled with the release of PoF (in terms of employees) did we get enough content to justify that? Not by a long shot. Keep in mind that while raids literally died (9 months for a wing is life support), the rest of the game wasn't any better. Time between episode releases also increased by a lot. My guess is that the other projects they were working on drained a LOT of resources. I can't justify how we get things at a snail's pace ever since PoF was released. And it obviously affected Raids too, I wouldn't expect them to release one episode every 4 months to have a Raid every 6 months, that would make the episode players quit. So I think it's more about bad allocation of resources than a business decision

My guess is more people hang around farming living story maps and doing metas than ever raid, so they focus on that. If the raiding community consists of 10,000 people, it might not be a big enough percentage of the playerbase as a whole to justify more development dollars than it's getting. It was always going to be a business decision.

If the raiding community consists of 10k people, it's a very large percentage of the active players of the game. Also farming living story maps and doing metas is one thing, but one can only guess that the bulk of the episodes are the large maps and the achievements/content that is associated with them. The real question in regards to population is how many players are raiding, compared to how many are actually FINISHING the episodes and not just the story and then farm.

We don't know the number of active players. If it's 300,000 playing the game, and I'm not saying it is, then 10,000 is not enough of a dent in the population to invest heavily in. And I'm not saying it's 10,000 people raiding either. I'm just using random numbers as an example. I don't think an episode every 4 months would make people quit, btw. That's your assumption but I don't think it's a good one.

An episode every 3 months surely made lots of players quit, so if it became an episode every 4 months it would surely make even more players quit. As for how many, we don't know the actual numbers, but about half of the gw2efficiency accounts (48%) stopped playing the game between the finale of Path of Fire and War Eternal. More stopped during the expansion and didn't bother to finish it although they bought it. I hope they have a better release cadence with Season 5.

Yesterday there were 17k people interested in GW2 raids. FF14 barely got 10k concurrent players before June 2019 (it exploded since then), now it's at 18k average in the last 30 days. So having 17k players concurrently interested in GW2 Raids is a very good number, and I'm positive not every Raider was even watching the stream, not even close. I'm quite sure there were more people watching the stream yesterday, than online playing the game, unless for some reason GW2 has more active players than FF14, which I really really doubt.

How is it known people 'stopped playing the game' by not finishing an achievement/story?

I play every day and haven't finished several Episode stories, and only recently finished the PoF story.

Does gw2efficiency track log-ins?

[vyncius.6105]

@FOX.3582 said:

@vyncius.6105 said:

@FOX.3582 said:Thousands of people watching a game they could easily play themselves, yeah, we ain’t all that stupid. Next.

do you watch sports? same thing with esports

I hate it when people say this weak argument. It’s not the same. You can now startup GW2 and play, while you can’t just go play a professional football game in your own, doughnut.

it is the same, just different playing ground

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

:slow clap: and a shrug. I'm happy that someone else is happy.

[Yahkov.8217]

I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

[Ashen.2907]

@FOX.3582 said:

@vyncius.6105 said:

@FOX.3582 said:Thousands of people watching a game they could easily play themselves, yeah, we ain’t all that stupid. Next.

do you watch sports? same thing with esports

I hate it when people say this weak argument. It’s not the same. You can now startup GW2 and play, while you can’t just go play a professional football game in your own, doughnut.

You can play GW2.You can play sports.

If you are going to add, "professional," as a qualifier for sports then a qualifier for high end competitive raiding should be added for GW2.

Of course most watching sports are not professional players any more than most watching a competitive game tournament are competitive tournament players.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

while I enjoyed the final very much - and you could not wish for a tighter ending, I usually prefer stuff like cmaj's 'a music guild tries to raid' or some 'wvw guild tries to raid' videos. You know, regular people. Their fails resonate AND are kind of funny.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Yahkov.8217 said:I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

not me. Because elitist raid guilds don't have any useful wvw builds :P

[Towelie.9504]

@Yahkov.8217 said:I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

Well yeah pretty much. This forum, like Reddit, is basically just a sea of casual players who log in every few days, do the same old meta and open-world boss events over and over, or once a month when there's new open-world content and then just log off. Why have a game with arguably the best combat mechanics of the MMO genre and only churn out new content updates for the game mode that you basically just can be on autopilot to actually do (Open World PVE, Open World Bosses, etc.) while refusing to add content to game-modes who would heavily utilize the combat mechanics (WvW, sPvP and Raids). Balance and skill changes, while incredibly appreciated and do make those game modes more interesting temporarily, aren't content updates before anyone says anything.

The thing is no one wants to watch open-world content stuff on twitch cause its boring. Incredibly boring. Which is why Anet doesn't ever show it on their twitch streams, they show WvW. If they were playing open-world PvE content every week it would result in negative advertising of how dull it really is after the first play-through.

Basically, teapot hasn't 100% quit but he did say he will come back and play GW2 how it is presently being designed to play: Once maybe a month and for a few hours and then log off. This game is BLEEDING its hardcore and competitive player base (two different demographics, oftentimes overlapping but not always), which maybe ArenaNet doesn't care about because the population is likely much smaller than the casual Open World PVE population.

[Raknar.4735]

@Yahkov.8217 said:I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

You mean the builds that every other raider copies, because they can't come up with their own builds, while the casual players don't even visit the forums or any build site, because they can create their own builds, and simply don't care about the whole meta?Yeah, i do wonder why some players try to use this community event to push their own agenda, instead of enjoying it like Teapot intended. ?

[Yahkov.8217]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Yahkov.8217 said:I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

not me. Because elitist raid guilds don't have any useful wvw builds :P

Well we can find some common ground. ArenaNet likes to ignore WvW too. But y'all probably have it worse. We have a 9 month window between raids. How long has it been now since they spoke of the alliance system? What new content have they made for WvW? Got to ask yourself sometimes, what in the world is ArenaNet doing? Oh wait, mount skins and a new map with repeat content. Duh.

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Yahkov.8217 said:I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

You mean the builds that every other raider copies, because they can't come up with their own builds, while the casual players don't even visit the forums or any build site, because they can create their own builds, and simply don't care about the whole meta?Yeah, i do wonder why some players try to use this community event to push their own agenda, instead of enjoying it like Teapot intended. ?

Wow, you nailed it right there buddy! Could be true.

@Towelie.9504 said:

@Yahkov.8217 said:I don't know why we are even talking about this here. This forum is full of casual players. The same casual players who got their build from an elitist raid guild. ?

Well yeah pretty much. This forum, like Reddit, is basically just a sea of casual players who log in every few days, do the same old meta and open-world boss events over and over, or once a month when there's new open-world content and then just log off. Why have a game with arguably the best combat mechanics of the MMO genre and only churn out new content updates for the game mode that you basically just can be on autopilot to actually do (Open World PVE, Open World Bosses, etc.) while refusing to add content to game-modes who would heavily utilize the combat mechanics (WvW, sPvP and Raids). Balance and skill changes, while incredibly appreciated and do make those game modes more interesting temporarily, aren't content updates before anyone says anything.

The thing is no one wants to watch open-world content stuff on twitch cause its

boring

. Incredibly boring. Which is why Anet doesn't ever show it on their twitch streams, they show WvW. If they were playing open-world PvE content every week it would result in negative advertising of how dull it really is after the first play-through.

Basically, teapot hasn't 100% quit but he did say he will come back and play GW2 how it is presently being designed to play:

Once maybe a month and for a few hours and then log off.

This game is BLEEDING its hardcore and competitive player base (two different demographics, oftentimes overlapping but not always), which maybe ArenaNet doesn't care about because the population is likely much smaller than the casual Open World PVE population.

This is exactly what I think it all boils down to. The more hardcore players will find that this game just isn't it for them, despite how much they love the game. What I think a lot of people neglect is there is so much to expect out of an mmorpg. There's the lore, the story, the environment, the PvP, the raids, etc. There are a lot of reasons why hardcore players may love this game outside of raiding. But for hardcore players, there is not much replayability in this game.

Obviously players come at all different skill levels. Players like to play casually and other players like more competition. Problem I see with ArenaNet is they invest very heavily into the casual player, way more than they should. And when you do that, you get living season 4 over the course of 2 years. In my honest opinion, just terrible. If you compare the content ArenaNet delivers with its competition (ESO, FF14), they are seriously behind. But you can't even say that in this community because the casuals will immediately tell you to go play those games. Reality is, hardcore players love this game for certain reasons, despite the drought in content. They want this game to do better, myself included.

The content they released over the past 2 years takes not even an entire day to complete. The only thing that took a while was the skyskale, a single mount, and that was only due to time gates. Others may like this, this is just my honest opinion, I think it's terrible. With all that being said, I think TeaPot is spot on: Guild Wars 2 is designed to be played once a month.

Furthermore, I don't understand people who say "the raid community is only about 10k people so why should ArenaNet invest into it?" Maybe because ArenaNet doesn't deliver much for those who raid, doesn't fix much in raids, and has the worst LFG system in an mmorpg? Idk that's just a couple guesses. People who raid in this game are leaving right now, so that number will go down even more. Next year they will be saying "the raid community is only about 8k people so why should ArenaNet invest into it?" You can now see where the problem is. We already saw this happen with sPvP. If ArenaNet spent more resources on raiding or even WvW, what would the casual player lose? A new map every 4 months that you will go in for about a day and not visit again unless it's for a collection or achievement? You have people who enter raid wings every single day. You have people in WvW maps every single day. How much content are they getting? It's ridiculous.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

Teapot seems like a nice enough fellow. I have to admit I am not really a Twitch viewer and even I watched a bit of his streams over the last few weeks out of curiosity due to all the posts here and on reddit about what he was doing. It seems he has done a good job driving awareness to his brand/stream over the last month or so on his way to other gaming ventures with the finale being marketed in my opinion kind of along the lines of, "ERP 3, the raid tournament players love and Anet doesn't want you to know about!" Maybe some of my opinion on that had more to do with others and the way they talked about it though and less to do with his actual feelings on the tournament.

Either way, I think the whole thing, as far as I have followed it, has had some positives. It brought more discussion about the game, the community, and the people that represent GW2 via streaming media for better or worse. Even though I don't often watch people play GW2 I still understand that there is value to having people that do take the time to stream while providing feedback on their gaming experience. Like it or not Twitch and other streaming formats are as big as they are because there is a significant number of people that do watch people play video games. As a fan of GW2 I wish more people would get in to streaming it because I think even if in small numbers of viewers at a time, it brings more attention to a game I very much enjoy and want to see prosper.

So, I wish Teapot good luck in his future gaming and streaming. He's done a good job marketing what he does. It certainly won't be the end of GW2 by his leaving but it would not hurt the game if he stopped back time to time to stream a little GW2. :)

[Vayne.8563]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:See, this is my problem. IF there really was a lot of people playing that content, why would Anet not make it more of a priority? It doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Anet knows how many percentage of the player base raid regularly or have ever raided regularly. I'm guessing if more people did it, as many as you seem to think, they'd have made more raids. Of course, this is only a guess.

The company more than doubled with the release of PoF (in terms of employees) did we get enough content to justify that? Not by a long shot. Keep in mind that while raids literally died (9 months for a wing is life support), the rest of the game wasn't any better. Time between episode releases also increased by a lot. My guess is that the other projects they were working on drained a LOT of resources. I can't justify how we get things at a snail's pace ever since PoF was released. And it obviously affected Raids too, I wouldn't expect them to release one episode every 4 months to have a Raid every 6 months, that would make the episode players quit. So I think it's more about bad allocation of resources than a business decision

My guess is more people hang around farming living story maps and doing metas than ever raid, so they focus on that. If the raiding community consists of 10,000 people, it might not be a big enough percentage of the playerbase as a whole to justify more development dollars than it's getting. It was always going to be a business decision.

If the raiding community consists of 10k people, it's a very large percentage of the active players of the game. Also farming living story maps and doing metas is one thing, but one can only guess that the bulk of the episodes are the large maps and the achievements/content that is associated with them. The real question in regards to population is how many players are raiding, compared to how many are actually FINISHING the episodes and not just the story and then farm.

We don't know the number of active players. If it's 300,000 playing the game, and I'm not saying it is, then 10,000 is not enough of a dent in the population to invest heavily in. And I'm not saying it's 10,000 people raiding either. I'm just using random numbers as an example. I don't think an episode every 4 months would make people quit, btw. That's your assumption but I don't think it's a good one.

An episode every 3 months surely made lots of players quit, so if it became an episode every 4 months it would surely make even more players quit. As for how many, we don't know the actual numbers, but about half of the gw2efficiency accounts (48%) stopped playing the game between the finale of Path of Fire and War Eternal. More stopped during the expansion and didn't bother to finish it although they bought it. I hope they have a better release cadence with Season 5.

Yesterday there were 17k people interested in GW2 raids. FF14 barely got 10k concurrent players before June 2019 (it exploded since then), now it's at 18k average in the last 30 days. So having 17k players concurrently interested in GW2 Raids is a very good number, and I'm positive not every Raider was even watching the stream, not even close. I'm quite sure there were more people watching the stream yesterday, than online playing the game, unless for some reason GW2 has more active players than FF14, which I really really doubt.

Where do you get those numbers from? I'm curious. How do you know that people quit from an episode every 3 months? Particularly a lot of people. I'm sure, 100% sure people take breaks. And I'm sure that the playerbase is very casual. Most people in my guild don't use GW2 efficiency. You have new players that never even hear about it, or go to reddit. The harder core people that live in the game constantly, sure they'll quit. How do you know they're a big majority of the game. I have 350 people in my guild and some of them are feeling worn out by events and feel they need a break, others are waiting for the next story. This whole idea what anyone knows why these people quit is ludicrous.

I guarantee you Anet has a much better idea from their own metrics of how many people raid and have ever raided as a total percentage of the player base than you have from a single twitch stream that was heavily advertised by a legion of fans. You have no idea how many non-raiders even watched it.