[Merged] Idea to help Overall Guild improvement (keeps players together)

[JpDelano.2580]

I have a suggestion or idea on how to keep players together. Every MMO out there today advertises there guild as Casual, Friendly, Active, and you get there and sometimes it is sometimes it isnt. If there was a guild search that revealed stats, this would help. For Example the guild seach would reveal a few colums that are system generated, based on how the guild performs and behaves.. It is not selectable by the Guild leader and updates every month. Here is a list of a few colums you would see.

1) Guild Type (Options are Casual, Moderate, Hardcore).. It reveals Caual to indicate that the average player in the guild is logged on for 2 hours per session.
2) Guild Activity (Options are Stagnant, Moderate, Active).. It reveals Moderate to show the guild overall has at least 10-20 players on at any given time..
3) Guild Disposition (Options are Stale, Moderate, Friendly).. It reveals Friendly because there are numberous players that use Chat when logged on.4) Guild Most Active ( Options are Morning, Day, Evening).. it reveals Evening because most players are on in the evening.. So players who work during day can see (time zone will show)5) Dungeons Completed (Options are Few, Moderate, Numberous).. It revelas numberous to show that each player averaged 30 dungeons this month6) Raids Completed ( Options same as above)7) Fractals completed (Options same as above)8) PvP and WvW (Options same above)9) Established Date ... shows date guild was formed10) Server... NA or EU11) Guild Mentoring..( Options are yes or no) not sure how this would work or how you would track it

Basically this is designed for any type of player to locate a guild that fits their playstyle. The system generates it letting the player know that this how the guild performs. If the guild leader wants to make sure that they keep the statistics, then they will need to work to maintain it.

Recruiting New Members:

Basically when the player sees a guild he is interested in joining, he sends an in game application. A guild official gets the application and it reveals the stats listed above for the player as well. So it would show how many dungeons the player completed this month, etc... This is so that the guild can keep the ranking that they want, and will group players together with the same playstyle. The official can accept or reject the application. You are allowed to apply once per month to a guild.

I think this will help keep the player base active. I am aware that there are a few static groups out there, however if your a new player youd be hard pressed to find one. This would make it easier. I know there is in game recruiting as I mentioned, however the guild statistics would be a better way to show how the guild performs and if the player wants to join or not.

[Rasimir.6239]

Or ... we could just talk to the people who's guild we think about joining, and find all of that out during personal conversation.

[JpDelano.2580]

@Rasimir.6239 said:Or ... we could just talk to the people who's guild we think about joining, and find all of that out during personal conversation.

Ive had one guild ever ask me anything before joining in all the MMO's ive played. I had no issue with going to discord or teamspeak either, but didn't need to in that case. I realize it sounds a bit out there, but if your a casual player, do you need to be playing in a hardcore guild, or you would be able to get more out of playing in a casual guild? The columns could change up a bit, but the idea is to keep players with same or similar playstyles together. This could also go a long way for new guilds just starting out. Some people enjoy joining a new guild to help build it, … lots of reasons why people join the guilds they do

[mindcircus.1506]

Sounds like a great way to segregate people into convenient little silos of your choosing rather than bringing them together.

[Seera.5916]

A guild is more than just the stats of how they play.

All this will do is label people unnecessarily based on arbitrary numbers that even the player base can't agree on.

When the actual key feature of if someone is a good fit for a guild or not is more their personality and how it meshes with the others in the guild than their play stats.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, a new player, interested in learning/playing Dungeons, but with little experience applies to a Numerous-rated Guild, he will be denied?Doesn't sound that great. Same for Raids, or anything else.

[JpDelano.2580]

@mindcircus.1506 said:Sounds like a great way to segregate people into convenient little silos of your choosing rather than bringing them together.

All current social policies aside, segregation is what is needed in an MMO. If I work a 9-5 job, and new to the game, and only PvP, it wouldn't be hard for me to find a guild if they do it right.

@Seera.5916 said:A guild is more than just the stats of how they play.

All this will do is label people unnecessarily based on arbitrary numbers that even the player base can't agree on.

When the actual key feature of if someone is a good fit for a guild or not is more their personality and how it meshes with the others in the guild than their play stats.

There wouldn't be individual stats, just the guilds overall stats, so the player can find a raid group or a PvP group they want to hang out with.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:So, a new player, interested in learning/playing Dungeons, but with little experience applies to a Numerous-rated Guild, he will be denied?Doesn't sound that great. Same for Raids, or anything else.

That's why I was thinking of adding a mentor stat somehow. The other aspect is recruiting.. You can apply once per month, so if you want in a prime guild, and you want in bad enough, youll run what you need to run to meet the requirements..

Anyway guys, its food for thought. The way Guild systems in MMO's are in generally not put together the way they should or could be. Its all the same. Casual, Friendly, Active, boot player after two weeks of inactive, rinse and repeat

[Mewcifer.5198]

I feel people would just mark their guilds as whatever they think is the most desirable categories to try and lure in members.

[JpDelano.2580]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:I feel people would just mark their guilds as whatever they think is the most desirable categories to try and lure in members.

That's why I said its all system generated stats. Not player kills or anything like that, just general stats. Each month they are reset. The guild leaders cant influence them at all so no false advertising

[Mewcifer.5198]

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:I feel people would just mark their guilds as whatever they think is the most desirable categories to try and lure in members.

That's why I said its all system generated stats. Not player kills or anything like that, just general stats. Each month they are reset. The guild leaders cant influence them at all so no false advertising

Those would be harder to influence but they are also cold numbers, they don't really show or tell what a guild is like or about.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Sounds like a great way to segregate people into convenient little silos of your choosing rather than bringing them together.

All current social policies aside, segregation is what is needed in an MMO. If I work a 9-5 job, and new to the game, and only PvP, it wouldn't be hard for me to find a guild if they do it right.

@Seera.5916 said:A guild is more than just the stats of how they play.

All this will do is label people unnecessarily based on arbitrary numbers that even the player base can't agree on.

When the actual key feature of if someone is a good fit for a guild or not is more their personality and how it meshes with the others in the guild than their play stats.

There wouldn't be individual stats, just the guilds overall stats, so the player can find a raid group or a PvP group they want to hang out with.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:So, a new player, interested in learning/playing Dungeons, but with little experience applies to a Numerous-rated Guild, he will be denied?Doesn't sound that great. Same for Raids, or anything else.

That's why I was thinking of adding a mentor stat somehow. The other aspect is recruiting.. You can apply once per month, so if you want in a prime guild, and you want in bad enough, youll run what you need to run to meet the requirements..

Anyway guys, its food for thought. The way Guild systems in MMO's are in generally not put together the way they should or could be. Its all the same. Casual, Friendly, Active, boot player after two weeks of inactive, rinse and repeat

A guild official gets the application and it reveals the stats listed above for the player as well.

I'm confused.

[Seera.5916]

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Sounds like a great way to segregate people into convenient little silos of your choosing rather than bringing them together.

All current social policies aside, segregation is what is needed in an MMO. If I work a 9-5 job, and new to the game, and only PvP, it wouldn't be hard for me to find a guild if they do it right.

@Seera.5916 said:A guild is more than just the stats of how they play.

All this will do is label people unnecessarily based on arbitrary numbers that even the player base can't agree on.

When the actual key feature of if someone is a good fit for a guild or not is more their personality and how it meshes with the others in the guild than their play stats.

There wouldn't be individual stats, just the guilds overall stats, so the player can find a raid group or a PvP group they want to hang out with.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:So, a new player, interested in learning/playing Dungeons, but with little experience applies to a Numerous-rated Guild, he will be denied?Doesn't sound that great. Same for Raids, or anything else.

That's why I was thinking of adding a mentor stat somehow. The other aspect is recruiting.. You can apply once per month, so if you want in a prime guild, and you want in bad enough, youll run what you need to run to meet the requirements..

Anyway guys, its food for thought. The way Guild systems in MMO's are in generally not put together the way they should or could be. Its all the same. Casual, Friendly, Active, boot player after two weeks of inactive, rinse and repeat

But people make up guilds. Those numbers the guild is judged on are based on how those individual players play. Plus, you said that when players apply to join guilds, the guilds get those stats for the player. So tell me again how it's not based on individual stats?

And players can't decide what makes someone casual or hardcore. What makes you think that ANet will find values that most will agree on?

Or will just be another way for players to "judge" others based off of arbitrary numbers that mean nothing as to who a person is and how well they play the game?

Because again the best way to find the best guild is to actually talk to the guild and listen to their responses and answer their questions. Because you can get a lot more from that than from the list of stats you suggested.

To me, if a guild just accepts into the ranks without talking to me or having someone vouch for me or for the guild that we'd be a good fit, isn't a guild I want to be in. Because that's a guild that will let the worst players into the guild. And by worst I mean personality wise. The trolls, the jerks, etc. Because they just let anyone in who asks.

[Tinker.6924]

@JpDelano.2580 said:1) Guild Type (Options are Casual, Moderate, Hardcore).. It reveals Caual to indicate that the average player in the guild is logged on for 2 hours per session.

2) Guild Activity (Options are Stagnant, Moderate, Active).. It reveals Moderate to show the guild overall has at least 10-20 players on at any given time..

3) Guild Disposition (Options are Stale, Moderate, Friendly).. It reveals Friendly because there are numberous players that use Chat when logged on.4) Guild Most Active ( Options are Morning, Day, Evening).. it reveals Evening because most players are on in the evening.. So players who work during day can see (time zone will show)5) Dungeons Completed (Options are Few, Moderate, Numberous).. It revelas numberous to show that each player averaged 30 dungeons this month6) Raids Completed ( Options same as above)7) Fractals completed (Options same as above)8) PvP and WvW (Options same above)9) Established Date ... shows date guild was formed10) Server... NA or EU11) Guild Mentoring..( Options are yes or no) not sure how this would work or how you would track itSome of those ideas make sense. However, chat activity can underrepresent guilds that have a very strong Discord community. Time activity (day, evening, etc) is tricky because it's a game with a global playerbase and your evening might be someone else's day...

I'm not sure how you calculate these statistics with guild representation. If I'm in Guild X and Y and I'm on a character that reps X but raids with Y, do you count that raid toward X or Y or both?

[Westenev.5289]

Sounds like a lot of trouble for a new or casual player who has no reference to gauge many of these stats.

Guilds are driven by people, not Anet's numbers. The only way to fit into a guild is by joining it.

[JpDelano.2580]

@Seera.5916 said:

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Sounds like a great way to segregate people into convenient little silos of your choosing rather than bringing them together.

All current social policies aside, segregation is what is needed in an MMO. If I work a 9-5 job, and new to the game, and only PvP, it wouldn't be hard for me to find a guild if they do it right.

@Seera.5916 said:A guild is more than just the stats of how they play.

All this will do is label people unnecessarily based on arbitrary numbers that even the player base can't agree on.

When the actual key feature of if someone is a good fit for a guild or not is more their personality and how it meshes with the others in the guild than their play stats.

There wouldn't be individual stats, just the guilds overall stats, so the player can find a raid group or a PvP group they want to hang out with.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:So, a new player, interested in learning/playing Dungeons, but with little experience applies to a Numerous-rated Guild, he will be denied?Doesn't sound that great. Same for Raids, or anything else.

That's why I was thinking of adding a mentor stat somehow. The other aspect is recruiting.. You can apply once per month, so if you want in a prime guild, and you want in bad enough, youll run what you need to run to meet the requirements..

Anyway guys, its food for thought. The way Guild systems in MMO's are in generally not put together the way they should or could be. Its all the same. Casual, Friendly, Active, boot player after two weeks of inactive, rinse and repeat

But people make up guilds. Those numbers the guild is judged on are based on how those individual players play. Plus, you said that when players apply to join guilds, the guilds get those stats for the player. So tell me again how it's not based on individual stats?

And players can't decide what makes someone casual or hardcore. What makes you think that ANet will find values that most will agree on?

Or will just be another way for players to "judge" others based off of arbitrary numbers that mean nothing as to who a person is and how well they play the game?

Because again the best way to find the best guild is to actually talk to the guild and listen to their responses and answer their questions. Because you can get a lot more from that than from the list of stats you suggested.

To me, if a guild just accepts into the ranks without talking to me or having someone vouch for me or for the guild that we'd be a good fit, isn't a guild I want to be in. Because that's a guild that will let the worst players into the guild. And by worst I mean personality wise. The trolls, the jerks, etc. Because they just let anyone in who asks.

Well considering we all judge or form opinions everyday, I think its fair. The numbers will show us simple stats. They will not show character kills for example. They would show how often the player logs in for a session, how many dungeons the players completed, etc... If the Guild Leader establishes itself as a PvP or WvW guild for example, then they would likely want players to help them keep up their PvP "stats" . The guild can accept anyone they want, however if they want to maintain a PvP rating of Hardcore, they will turn down applicants because those applicants run Raids and Dungeons..

This is a means for searching for a guild. The guild will still have its recruitment message, etc... so you can form your opinion and judge for yourself whether or not you want to be there.

The guild leaders or officers would accept applicants because those applicants have a common goal for the guild. If the guild wants to run everything, then well, they would invite everyone. If they want Raid guild, then they could see how many raids the applicant ran this month. However it helps the players to narrow down there search and will have a lot less guild hopping or guild flipping. If all I care about is a social guild, then it wouldn't be hard to find.

As for the interview with a guild leader. I think its great. It just doesn't happen.. Or if it does, it rarely happens. If at all. The guild I am in is great, I lucked out because they do mentoring, events, all of it. I lucked out, however I doubt its the case for most guilds.

Anyway, maybe its not needed, but I think it would definitely help out a lot. Especially if your looking for a specific guild type that is on the same time you are on, and plays what you play.

[Seera.5916]

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Sounds like a great way to segregate people into convenient little silos of your choosing rather than bringing them together.

All current social policies aside, segregation is what is needed in an MMO. If I work a 9-5 job, and new to the game, and only PvP, it wouldn't be hard for me to find a guild if they do it right.

@Seera.5916 said:A guild is more than just the stats of how they play.

All this will do is label people unnecessarily based on arbitrary numbers that even the player base can't agree on.

When the actual key feature of if someone is a good fit for a guild or not is more their personality and how it meshes with the others in the guild than their play stats.

There wouldn't be individual stats, just the guilds overall stats, so the player can find a raid group or a PvP group they want to hang out with.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:So, a new player, interested in learning/playing Dungeons, but with little experience applies to a Numerous-rated Guild, he will be denied?Doesn't sound that great. Same for Raids, or anything else.

That's why I was thinking of adding a mentor stat somehow. The other aspect is recruiting.. You can apply once per month, so if you want in a prime guild, and you want in bad enough, youll run what you need to run to meet the requirements..

Anyway guys, its food for thought. The way Guild systems in MMO's are in generally not put together the way they should or could be. Its all the same. Casual, Friendly, Active, boot player after two weeks of inactive, rinse and repeat

But people make up guilds. Those numbers the guild is judged on are based on how those individual players play. Plus, you said that when players apply to join guilds, the guilds get those stats for the player. So tell me again how it's not based on individual stats?

And players can't decide what makes someone casual or hardcore. What makes you think that ANet will find values that most will agree on?

Or will just be another way for players to "judge" others based off of arbitrary numbers that mean nothing as to who a person is and how well they play the game?

Because again the best way to find the best guild is to actually talk to the guild and listen to their responses and answer their questions. Because you can get a lot more from that than from the list of stats you suggested.

To me, if a guild just accepts into the ranks without talking to me or having someone vouch for me or for the guild that we'd be a good fit, isn't a guild I want to be in. Because that's a guild that will let the worst players into the guild. And by worst I mean personality wise. The trolls, the jerks, etc. Because they just let anyone in who asks.

Well considering we all judge or form opinions everyday, I think its fair. The numbers will show us simple stats. They will not show character kills for example. They would show how often the player logs in for a session, how many dungeons the players completed, etc... If the Guild Leader establishes itself as a PvP or WvW guild for example, then they would likely want players to help them keep up their PvP "stats" . The guild can accept anyone they want, however if they want to maintain a PvP rating of Hardcore, they will turn down applicants because those applicants run Raids and Dungeons..

This is a means for searching for a guild. The guild will still have its recruitment message, etc... so you can form your opinion and judge for yourself whether or not you want to be there.

The guild leaders or officers would accept applicants because those applicants have a common goal for the guild. If the guild wants to run everything, then well, they would invite everyone. If they want Raid guild, then they could see how many raids the applicant ran this month. However it helps the players to narrow down there search and will have a lot less guild hopping or guild flipping. If all I care about is a social guild, then it wouldn't be hard to find.

As for the interview with a guild leader. I think its great. It just doesn't happen.. Or if it does, it rarely happens. If at all. The guild I am in is great, I lucked out because they do mentoring, events, all of it. I lucked out, however I doubt its the case for most guilds.

Anyway, maybe its not needed, but I think it would definitely help out a lot. Especially if your looking for a specific guild type that is on the same time you are on, and plays what you play.

The judgement shouldn't be made by arbitrary stats that mean nothing.

A person may not have raided last month because they are a tax person and it was the month before taxes were due and therefore they didn't have time to raid and when they did have free time they wanted to do something mindless and not raiding. Or they might be new to raiding and want to join a raiding guild in order to learn. Oh wait, the stats don't tell me that. Only talking to them will. The stats don't tell me that this person with 0 raids last month is new to raiding and is very eager to learn and willing to actually listen and learn.

It also doesn't them that their other applicant bought all their raids last month and doesn't know anything about raids yet thinks he does because he's watched them.

The chatting statistic doesn't tell me anything about their discord or teamspeak community. Where they may actually be highly active in. Even when they don't have time to log into Guild Wars 2.

It doesn't tell me that the guild has gone multi-game and they are all playing this other game this month primarily that just released a new expansion pack so their hours in Guild Wars 2 are lower than normal so they appear as a casual guild when they actually aren't.

It doesn't tell me that the guild is looking to form a raiding group. It doesn't tell me that this person who has a bunch of raids under his belt did it primarily by PUG's and he can't keep a steady group because he's a jerk that people will put up with for a PUG but they sure don't want to play with him every time.

The stats don't tell me that the person who is super chatty is only super chatty because they do it by trolling in Lion's Arch.

The stats are meaningless because they don't give the reason behind the stats.

The only way, I repeat the only way, to find out if guild an applicant are right for each other is for the two to talk to each other. Find out their goals, what they do when they're on, what the expectations are, etc.

Your system won't do anything to reduce the guild hopping or guild flipping. Because there's no set of stats that can give a direct answer on if a guild and an applicant are right for each other.

[JpDelano.2580]

Quote"The judgement shouldn't be made by arbitrary stats that mean nothing.A person may not have raided last month because they are a tax person and it was the month before taxes were due and therefore they didn't have time to raid and when they did have free time they wanted to do something mindless and not raiding. Or they might be new to raiding and want to join a raiding guild in order to learn. Oh wait, the stats don't tell me that. Only talking to them will. The stats don't tell me that this person with 0 raids last month is new to raiding and is very eager to learn and willing to actually listen and learn"

The applicant can apply once per month. If there was an application, I would imagine it has a field for comments.

Quote"It also doesn't them that their other applicant bought all their raids last month and doesn't know anything about raids yet thinks he does because he's watched them."

This was why I mentioned mentoring. Im not sure how you would track it. Only thing that comes to mind is if they would add it somehow to a guild activity, but again, not sure how.

Quote"The chatting statistic doesn't tell me anything about their discord or teamspeak community. Where they may actually be highly active in. Even when they don't have time to log into Guild Wars 2."

Let me ask you this. How many guilds have you been in that always announce they have teamspeak and discord available, then what percentage of players ever get on it? There is also a place for a guild recruitment message on the search engine along with the columns.. failed to mention.

Quote"It doesn't tell me that the guild has gone multi-game and they are all playing this other game this month primarily that just released a new expansion pack so their hours in Guild Wars 2 are lower than normal so they appear as a casual guild when they actually aren't."

Once again, I would imagine there would be a comment field if this ever happened.

Quote"It doesn't tell me that the guild is looking to form a raiding group. It doesn't tell me that this person who has a bunch of raids under his belt did it primarily by PUG's and he can't keep a steady group because he's a jerk that people will put up with for a PUG but they sure don't want to play with him every time."

If the Guild establishes itself as a raiding group, you can see that it is, so why would you think you would PUG many groups if you got in?

Quote"The stats don't tell me that the person who is super chatty is only super chatty because they do it by trolling in Lion's Arch."

The chat system would log guild chat only. So it would say player 1 made 50 comments today. It would average the total against the entire guild, and it would say Friendly, or you could also say social instead of friendly I guess.

Quote"The stats are meaningless because they don't give the reason behind the stats"If you searched for a guild, and in the field that says..... Guild Most Active… and it states Evening, you wouldn't put it together that this guild plays at night?

Quote"The only way, I repeat the only way, to find out if guild an applicant are right for each other is for the two to talk to each other. Find out their goals, what they do when they're on, what the expectations are, etc."

If the officer wants to take time for an interview, sure why not? I would. Conversations rarely happen, but sure. I guess then maybe the Guild Leader could be the one that makes the application? Would that work better? So when the applicant does a search, it pulls up a list of guilds, they see the stats, the select the guild, get the details, click apply. It pulls up a few items or parameters the Guild Leader wants, then has a comment section...

Quote"Your system won't do anything to reduce the guild hopping or guild flipping. Because there's no set of stats that can give a direct answer on if a guild and an applicant are right for each other."

Well, maybe you should try re-reading the original post again. The stats will tell the player what time of day the guild is active, how many on typically on, what events the guild runs, if they are social or not, if they do raids or not... Not sure I follow you here

[Seera.5916]

@"JpDelano.2580" said:Quote"The judgement shouldn't be made by arbitrary stats that mean nothing.A person may not have raided last month because they are a tax person and it was the month before taxes were due and therefore they didn't have time to raid and when they did have free time they wanted to do something mindless and not raiding. Or they might be new to raiding and want to join a raiding guild in order to learn. Oh wait, the stats don't tell me that. Only talking to them will. The stats don't tell me that this person with 0 raids last month is new to raiding and is very eager to learn and willing to actually listen and learn"

The applicant can apply once per month. If there was an application, I would imagine it has a field for comments.

Quote"It also doesn't them that their other applicant bought all their raids last month and doesn't know anything about raids yet thinks he does because he's watched them."

This was why I mentioned mentoring. Im not sure how you would track it. Only thing that comes to mind is if they would add it somehow to a guild activity, but again, not sure how.

Quote"The chatting statistic doesn't tell me anything about their discord or teamspeak community. Where they may actually be highly active in. Even when they don't have time to log into Guild Wars 2."

Let me ask you this. How many guilds have you been in that always announce they have teamspeak and discord available, then what percentage of players ever get on it? There is also a place for a guild recruitment message on the search engine along with the columns.. failed to mention.

Quote"It doesn't tell me that the guild has gone multi-game and they are all playing this other game this month primarily that just released a new expansion pack so their hours in Guild Wars 2 are lower than normal so they appear as a casual guild when they actually aren't."

Once again, I would imagine there would be a comment field if this ever happened.

Quote"It doesn't tell me that the guild is looking to form a raiding group. It doesn't tell me that this person who has a bunch of raids under his belt did it primarily by PUG's and he can't keep a steady group because he's a jerk that people will put up with for a PUG but they sure don't want to play with him every time."

If the Guild establishes itself as a raiding group, you can see that it is, so why would you think you would PUG many groups if you got in?

Quote"The stats don't tell me that the person who is super chatty is only super chatty because they do it by trolling in Lion's Arch."

The chat system would log guild chat only. So it would say player 1 made 50 comments today. It would average the total against the entire guild, and it would say Friendly, or you could also say social instead of friendly I guess.

Quote"The stats are meaningless because they don't give the reason behind the stats"If you searched for a guild, and in the field that says..... Guild Most Active… and it states Evening, you wouldn't put it together that this guild plays at night?

Quote"The only way, I repeat the only way, to find out if guild an applicant are right for each other is for the two to talk to each other. Find out their goals, what they do when they're on, what the expectations are, etc."

If the officer wants to take time for an interview, sure why not? I would. Conversations rarely happen, but sure. I guess then maybe the Guild Leader could be the one that makes the application? Would that work better? So when the applicant does a search, it pulls up a list of guilds, they see the stats, the select the guild, get the details, click apply. It pulls up a few items or parameters the Guild Leader wants, then has a comment section...

Quote"Your system won't do anything to reduce the guild hopping or guild flipping. Because there's no set of stats that can give a direct answer on if a guild and an applicant are right for each other."

Well, maybe you should try re-reading the original post again. The stats will tell the player what time of day the guild is active, how many on typically on, what events the guild runs, if they are social or not, if they do raids or not... Not sure I follow you here

I did read your OP.

You stated that when players apply, that those same stats would be given to the guild leaders. Stop ignoring parts of your own idea when people try to use it against you.

Some of my examples were based on guild stats. Some were based off of individual stats. You know the stats that guilds get when people apply.

1. A comment field likely wouldn't be able to have enough characters to explain everything for every stat. Because that's what would be required. Because stats alone are meaningless.

2. So you've got a half thought out idea and are pushing back against any and all feedback as to how your current idea isn't going to work....

3. See #1.

4. A guild just starting out as a raiding group likely hasn't done many raids. They wouldn't be shown as having done a lot of raids. And you kept in the part about the individual being a jerk with a lot of raids under his belt. Yet didn't mention anything about it. Oh right, because no amount of statistics will be able to tell you that.

5. And this is individual stats. You know the ones that the guild would receive when they are getting applicants. Or did you forget again that you stated when players apply, the guilds would see those stats? So again, a chatty player trolling LA would have that reason be hidden. And who wants a troll in their group?

6. Oh wow, out of all the stats you listed, only one can be interpreted. But I bet many guilds have decent activity appropriate for their server region. So an NA server would likely have decent activity for anyone on an NA server. Plus, someone's evening is someone's morning. Even if only figuratively for those who primarily work night shifts.

7. And again with the application. Application does jack squat for figuring out if a guild and an applicant are right for each other. The comment section would not allow enough characters for people or guilds to explain things.

8. Maybe you should re-read my reply again. Because I said that your statistics do nothing towards finding out if a guild is a good fit or not. Because it does not go into details as to why. The stats are meaningless by themselves. You'd have to talk to the guilds to find out why and then why have the stats if you just have to talk to the player anyway?

All your suggestion would do is make guilds and people judge each other off of meaningless statistics. Because the statistics do not give the reason behind them. Nor do they shed a light on the personality of the applicant or of the guild.

The best way to find new members for a guild is to go out and play and talk to people and if you find a common ground with your guild ask them if they want to join a guild (or another guild since we are allowed to join multiple ones) and direct them to the appropriate place to apply if with you isn't the right place. So the "interview" wouldn't be an actual interview just two people playing and chatting together and before either group realizes that it's happening.

[whoeverxwins.1279]

Even your 'stats' don't necessarily reflect the labels. Casual less than 2 hours a day? What about people like me, who can't play every day, but the days I do play, I'm on for hours and hours. But I don't PvP or raid. Dungeons I just PUG when I feel like it. So how does that make me hardcore?

[JpDelano.2580]

Quote"I did read your OP.You stated that when players apply, that those same stats would be given to the guild leaders. Stop ignoring parts of your own idea when people try to use it against you"

Yep, the guild leader gets your stats on an application. He can see that you run dungeons. Not sure what im ignoring. He doesn't get your age, color, grandmas name, social, he gets general gaming stats which are identical to the guilds stats that will be used. When these stats are comprised, the reveal an outcome for the month.

Quote"A comment field likely wouldn't be able to have enough characters to explain everything for every stat. Because that's what would be required. Because stats alone are meaningless."

Not sure im explaining the concept right. All it is, is a guild search feature. When pulled up, it reveals guild statics based on guild performance. This prevents guild leaders from saying hey we are active and friendly, come have a beer because we run all kinds of things, when the stats will say that you don't this month. A small comment field could be added on an application, or just whisper if you need to go into detail. The applications are there because it would be handy, but also so that the officers can reject you if you do not do PvP or run Raids, and you are trying to get into a PvP Raiding guild. There are other guilds you could apply to that run the things you run.

Quote"A guild just starting out as a raiding group likely hasn't done many raids. They wouldn't be shown as having done a lot of raids. And you kept in the part about the individual being a jerk with a lot of raids under his belt. Yet didn't mention anything about it. Oh right, because no amount of statistics will be able to tell you that."

Ah yeah, the jerk ok. Well tell him I said to have a coke and a smile and shut up. Just kidding. Yeah good point because a new guild wouldn't have any stats, so they would have to include in there recruit message (which would also be visible on the search) that they are new. So when people try to apply for their guild, the stats wont match up, makes sense because it would make it hard for new guilds to establish what they want to do because no one has joined. I would have to say that they would get a one month average rating on everything then, for the first month or two or until they have 20 members, something like that. not sure how else to do that.

Quote"And this is individual stats. You know the ones that the guild would receive when they are getting applicants. Or did you forget again that you stated when players apply, the guilds would see those stats? So again, a chatty player trolling LA would have that reason be hidden. And who wants a troll in their group?"

Possible. someone just goes from guild to guild and scores like a hundred chats, takes off, goes to another guild, trolls it up.. Ok.. The stats reset every month. The guild stats recorded are for when they are in that guild, when they leave, all stats go with them. So they would have to leave after the stats are totaled, and new month starts up.So heres the issue with trolling.. You would have to send a ton of messages each day for you to affect the entire guilds average. If that happened, then only way to prevent it is to red flag it or cap the average. So when the monthly stats are totaling everything, it would say player 1 has reached maximum chats. Player 2, then Player 3, so on. And average them all out.

Quote"Oh wow, out of all the stats you listed, only one can be interpreted. But I bet many guilds have decent activity appropriate for their server region. So an NA server would likely have decent activity for anyone on an NA server. Plus, someone's evening is someone's morning. Even if only figuratively for those who primarily work night shifts."

Your time zone you live in will show you the result. If its evening for you, and morning for them, you see evening. This way you know when people are on. The only thing the server region would show is if its NA or EU. Not sure I understand what you mean by only one stat is interpreted. PvP stat would hardcore, moderate etc.. Raid stat would show moderate.. etc.. Its based on each player average, then divided among the other players.

Quote"And again with the application. Application does jack squat for figuring out if a guild and an applicant are right for each other. The comment section would not allow enough characters for people or guilds to explain things."

Already answered that. Once again if your looking for a raiding guild, the leader will have what they need, and you will have what you need. if your looking for a PvP guild, then apply for a PvP guild. If your looking for a guild that does it all, then apply for that guild.

Quote"All your suggestion would do is make guilds and people judge each other off of meaningless statistics. Because the statistics do not give the reason behind them. Nor do they shed a light on the personality of the applicant or of the guild."

Honestly what makes players judge things are when we read what is and isn't tolerated. I was raised by my parents not twitter. That has no bearing what so ever when doing an initial search for a guild. If all I wanted to be a part of was a guild that does not tolerate this, or tolerate that, I would just ask them. The point of the search is to avoid all the garbage messages about the guild does this, and the guild does that, and you get there, and no one says a word in chat for 2 hours, and you say hello and get booted.

Anyway, not sure if that answers anything

[JpDelano.2580]

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:Even your 'stats' don't necessarily reflect the labels. Casual less than 2 hours a day? What about people like me, who can't play every day, but the days I do play, I'm on for hours and hours. But I don't PvP or raid. Dungeons I just PUG when I feel like it. So how does that make me hardcore?

It takes the average log in session for each player. So for you it would show 8 hours lets say. You next session is another 8 hours.. You stats will compare with lets say 150 guild members and then divided up. AS for the dungeons it shows as completed, doesn't matter who or how you completed, it just gets a total for the month, and averaged against the rest. Then the stat comes back with the result. So in other words you don't have to run them with the guild in order for it to count.

However in your case, you would want to search for a guild that has a hardcore rating for dungeons, and probably hardcore rating for guild activity because when your on, they are on too. If you joined a guild that had casual rating, you would see people come and go as your logged on. The might do raids too, and because you do not, you would bring down their average a bit for the month. It all depends on what the guild wants to be, so they would recruit more raiders to bring it up.

[whoeverxwins.1279]

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:Even your 'stats' don't necessarily reflect the labels. Casual less than 2 hours a day? What about people like me, who can't play every day, but the days I do play, I'm on for hours and hours. But I don't PvP or raid. Dungeons I just PUG when I feel like it. So how does that make me hardcore?

It takes the average log in session for each player. So for you it would show 8 hours lets say. You next session is another 8 hours.. You stats will compare with lets say 150 guild members and then divided up. AS for the dungeons it shows as completed, doesn't matter who or how you completed, it just gets a total for the month, and averaged against the rest. Then the stat comes back with the result. So in other words you don't have to run them with the guild in order for it to count.

However in your case, you would want to search for a guild that has a hardcore rating for dungeons, and probably hardcore rating for guild activity because when your on, they are on too. If you joined a guild that had casual rating, you would see people come and go as your logged on. The might do raids too, and because you do not, you would bring down their average a bit for the month. It all depends on what the guild wants to be, so they would recruit more raiders to bring it up.

Yet I'm completely happy with the mixed group, large, active guild I'm in. Want to do a dungeon? I can often find someone. Need help in a story? Someone will jump in. Want to run events? They do that often. And stats won't really show everything a guild does. What about metas, boss trains, HP trains, fractal and raid training... Really, the only way to find a guild that offers what you want is to find it yourself.

[JpDelano.2580]

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:Even your 'stats' don't necessarily reflect the labels. Casual less than 2 hours a day? What about people like me, who can't play every day, but the days I do play, I'm on for hours and hours. But I don't PvP or raid. Dungeons I just PUG when I feel like it. So how does that make me hardcore?

It takes the average log in session for each player. So for you it would show 8 hours lets say. You next session is another 8 hours.. You stats will compare with lets say 150 guild members and then divided up. AS for the dungeons it shows as completed, doesn't matter who or how you completed, it just gets a total for the month, and averaged against the rest. Then the stat comes back with the result. So in other words you don't have to run them with the guild in order for it to count.

However in your case, you would want to search for a guild that has a hardcore rating for dungeons, and probably hardcore rating for guild activity because when your on, they are on too. If you joined a guild that had casual rating, you would see people come and go as your logged on. The might do raids too, and because you do not, you would bring down their average a bit for the month. It all depends on what the guild wants to be, so they would recruit more raiders to bring it up.

Yet I'm completely happy with the mixed group, large, active guild I'm in. Want to do a dungeon? I can often find someone. Need help in a story? Someone will jump in. Want to run events? They do that often. And stats won't really show everything a guild does. What about metas, boss trains, HP trains, fractal and raid training... Really, the only way to find a guild that offers what you want is to find it yourself.

Not really. Not sure how many MMO's you've played, but I can tell you Ive played my share of them, and there are a ton of guilds out there that are dead as a doornail, and wont run a thing with you. Im sure the guild your in is great, I got lucky too and found a good one. Guilds overall, no way. They will have a cool recruiting message, and you might meet a few people to run with, but when you look at the whole picture, no. Guilds need a lot of work, which is why there are static raid groups out there, or static fractal groups for example. The whole point for the static groups is because people in there guild do not run them.

[Seera.5916]

You're doing it again. Ignoring parts of your OP and not reading what I'm saying.

Quote"I did read your OP.You stated that when players apply, that those same stats would be given to the guild leaders. Stop ignoring parts of your own idea when people try to use it against you"

Yep, the guild leader gets your stats on an application. He can see that you run dungeons. Not sure what im ignoring. He doesn't get your age, color, grandmas name, social, he gets general gaming stats which are identical to the guilds stats that will be used. When these stats are comprised, the reveal an outcome for the month.

Quote"And this is individual stats. You know the ones that the guild would receive when they are getting applicants. Or did you forget again that you stated when players apply, the guilds would see those stats? So again, a chatty player trolling LA would have that reason be hidden. And who wants a troll in their group?"

Possible. someone just goes from guild to guild and scores like a hundred chats, takes off, goes to another guild, trolls it up.. Ok.. The stats reset every month. The guild stats recorded are for when they are in that guild, when they leave, all stats go with them. So they would have to leave after the stats are totaled, and new month starts up.So heres the issue with trolling.. You would have to send a ton of messages each day for you to affect the entire guilds average. If that happened, then only way to prevent it is to red flag it or cap the average. So when the monthly stats are totaling everything, it would say player 1 has reached maximum chats. Player 2, then Player 3, so on. And average them all out.

This part is referring to the JERK'S stats when applying to a new guild. Not to the guilds he got booted from. Or did you conveniently forget what you said in the first part of the reply? I've bolded both parts.

Again, what if a player or a guild that is a PvP or a raiding guild just didn't do as much PvP'ing or raiding or whatever in the previous month for logical reasons that you wouldn't want to air out to the public? Especially on the individual side.

Quote"Oh wow, out of all the stats you listed, only one can be interpreted. But I bet many guilds have decent activity appropriate for their server region. So an NA server would likely have decent activity for anyone on an NA server. Plus, someone's evening is someone's morning. Even if only figuratively for those who primarily work night shifts."

Your time zone you live in will show you the result. If its evening for you, and morning for them, you see evening. This way you know when people are on. The only thing the server region would show is if its NA or EU. Not sure I understand what you mean by only one stat is interpreted. PvP stat would hardcore, moderate etc.. Raid stat would show moderate.. etc.. Its based on each player average, then divided among the other players.

Interpreted = find the reason behind it. All of the other stats have way too much going into them in order for anyone to judge someone or a guild based on it. I'm sure you can think of a month where real life interfered with your ability or desire to play some aspect of the game or even the game itself. Would you want someone to judge you incorrectly based on those stats or have to air out your personal problems to strangers in order to explain it?

Quote"A comment field likely wouldn't be able to have enough characters to explain everything for every stat. Because that's what would be required. Because stats alone are meaningless."

Not sure im explaining the concept right. All it is, is a guild search feature. When pulled up, it reveals guild statics based on guild performance. This prevents guild leaders from saying hey we are active and friendly, come have a beer because we run all kinds of things, when the stats will say that you don't this month. A small comment field could be added on an application, or just whisper if you need to go into detail. The applications are there because it would be handy, but also so that the officers can reject you if you do not do PvP or run Raids, and you are trying to get into a PvP Raiding guild. There are other guilds you could apply to that run the things you run.

Your concept is clear. You're just missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm saying that the stats are meaningless. They don't give enough detail. Maybe the person who hasn't PvP'ed or raided that's wanting to join is wanting to learn to do so. But the stats don't say that. So again would need a comment section. When all of the stats need a comment section in order to explain things, then your application is pointless. It's best left the way it is now where guilds themselves decide how much of an application they want and how they want to do the application. Whether that's a whisper discussion with a member or an application on a website or by invite only or however. Because that in and of itself is also telling of a guild if it's guild choice on how to get members. And why would I want to get rid of that?

[JpDelano.2580]

Why do I get the feeling your trolling? Hmm, guess I will have to use common sense instead of judging people, dang. I really wanted to use common sense.. or was that judging I wanted to use, or maybe I just wanted to use my head, can I say that in 2019? Ill go with use my head because 4 people used the word judging already, so to avoid repetition I will pick that.