[Merged] Idea to help Overall Guild improvement (keeps players together)

[Seera.5916]

@JpDelano.2580 said:Why do I get the feeling your trolling? Hmm, guess I will have to use common sense instead of judging people, dang. I really wanted to use common sense.. or was that judging I wanted to use, or maybe I just wanted to use my head, can I say that in 2019? Ill go with use my head because 4 people used the word judging already, so to avoid repetition I will pick that.

Not trolling.

Just because someone points out the flaws in your suggestion and you can't figure out how to make your suggestion better doesn't make the person a troll.

So until you're ready to actually listen we'll just have to agree to disagree on how helpful your suggestion is. But let me know when you are and we can discuss things.

[JpDelano.2580]

@Seera.5916 said:

@JpDelano.2580 said:Why do I get the feeling your trolling? Hmm, guess I will have to use common sense instead of judging people, dang. I really wanted to use common sense.. or was that judging I wanted to use, or maybe I just wanted to use my head, can I say that in 2019? Ill go with use my head because 4 people used the word judging already, so to avoid repetition I will pick that.

Not trolling.

Just because someone points out the flaws in your suggestion and you can't figure out how to make your suggestion better doesn't make the person a troll.

So until you're ready to actually listen we'll just have to agree to disagree on how helpful your suggestion is. But let me know when you are and we can discuss things.

You know what I try to when I feel the need to get the last word in? I pray so that I get the peace I need. Something you might consider, I do it all the time, and its a hard thing to stop. My mom is ten times worse at it than I am, because that's likely where I get it.

Its fine if you weren't trolling, I thought you were. Sorry. Getting late, off to bed thanks for the feedback.

[Leablo.2651]

Just join one (or all) of the big public guilds.

[Rasimir.6239]

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:

@JpDelano.2580 said:

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:Even your 'stats' don't necessarily reflect the labels. Casual less than 2 hours a day? What about people like me, who can't play every day, but the days I do play, I'm on for hours and hours. But I don't PvP or raid. Dungeons I just PUG when I feel like it. So how does that make me hardcore?

It takes the average log in session for each player. So for you it would show 8 hours lets say. You next session is another 8 hours.. You stats will compare with lets say 150 guild members and then divided up. AS for the dungeons it shows as completed, doesn't matter who or how you completed, it just gets a total for the month, and averaged against the rest. Then the stat comes back with the result. So in other words you don't have to run them with the guild in order for it to count.

However in your case, you would want to search for a guild that has a hardcore rating for dungeons, and probably hardcore rating for guild activity because when your on, they are on too. If you joined a guild that had casual rating, you would see people come and go as your logged on. The might do raids too, and because you do not, you would bring down their average a bit for the month. It all depends on what the guild wants to be, so they would recruit more raiders to bring it up.

Yet I'm completely happy with the mixed group, large, active guild I'm in. Want to do a dungeon? I can often find someone. Need help in a story? Someone will jump in. Want to run events? They do that often. And stats won't really show everything a guild does. What about metas, boss trains, HP trains, fractal and raid training... Really, the only way to find a guild that offers what you want is to find it yourself.

Not really. Not sure how many MMO's you've played, but I can tell you Ive played my share of them, and there are a ton of guilds out there that are dead as a doornail, and wont run a thing with you. Im sure the guild your in is great, I got lucky too and found a good one. Guilds overall, no way. They will have a cool recruiting message, and you might meet a few people to run with, but when you look at the whole picture, no. Guilds need a lot of work, which is why there are static raid groups out there, or static fractal groups for example. The whole point for the static groups is because people in there guild do not run them.

But that's not something you can change with statistics. It's just a people thing. Even if the statistics "match", that's no guarantee (not even close) that you will mesh with the guild or vice-versa.

My main guild for example would probably come up with 30 dungeon runs for the last 10 days ... because I've been running about that many dungeons with friends from other guilds. It would show a ton of wvw hours ... collected from a handfull of guildies that mainly live in wvw. We have people playing all kinds of content in this game, but content focus isn't why we are in this guild, it's the people. No statistic is ever going to do us justice, nor anybody interested in joining us.

There are people who look for "people to do content with" when looking for a guild, but there are many more, different reasons to join a guild that simply can't be expressed through statistics. And as always there are many ways to game the system to make your guild "look good" if you go by numbers.

And lastly, there's such a thing as "personal data". Giving a player the option to see their individual stats might be one thing, but automatically making these available to others (the potential guild leader or anyone else) is plain illegal in a considerable number of countries.

[Naxos.2503]

OP's idea is probably a lot more divisive than first thought : Small guilds shouldn't be labelled as "stagnant" (Which I find pejorative for that matter) because they want to stay below 10 members. That doesn't reflect the goal at all.

Search button is fine, have it display members, level, and a description of the guild according to it's leader, along with the leader's name for contact. If folks want more info, meet up, or tour the guild hall, they can contact the Guild leader (adding a Recruiter option in Guild ranks would perhaps let them be displayed along with the leader's name). Server EU/NA is irrelevant, since players wont see the other server's guild. The only way for an EU to talk to NA is via whisper, or via guesting. Guilds arent impacted. Instead you could have the leader select a Preferred server in that search board, so that prospective member can know where most of the members originate from. When the WvW alliance rolls out, that issue wont be nearly as prevalent. The date of creation of the guild is ... fine I suppose. The rest is entirely intrusive. I dont want my guild to be put on display more than I want it to. Nor do I need it to be compared to other, older, larger guilds who obviously have better "stats". I need members. They dont.

My main issue with the guild system is personal. I dont like the fact that members can choose 5 guilds, because most of the time, that encourages inactivity toward the progress of one guild. Why help a lower guild progress when a larger guild has Everything to accomodate you. That has been a thorn in my spine ever since I created my guild. I had 5 members work with me diligently on bettering the guild slowly. The remaining 20 joined another guild and became ghost members. I eventually stopped recruiting openly because I knew all it'd achieve is exactly the same. Members flock to the easier option. Only real idealistic members, generally good friends stay and help build up a guild. And you cant make new friends if most of your prospect are running off elsewhere instead of spending a bit of time with you. There is arguably Nothing wrong with that mentality. They have their goal in mind, and that should Always take precedence. But as a guild lead, that really doesn't help that they're encouraged to direct their attention elsewhere without even helping here first.
This actually applies to raids in particular : How am I supposed to start a raiding group if the members know they can find a guild where a raiding group is already pre-established ?

Members arent rewarded nearly enough for their loyalty with the current system, which definitely doesnt help.

[mercury ranique.2170]

I do not join a guild based on arbitrary numbers like hiw long members on average log in, how many are active, how busy chat is, when it is most active, how many raids, dungeosn, fractals and PvP and WvW thet complete, when they are formed or if they have mentoring.

I join a guild cause I am curious about them based on the recruitment and I stay there cause I feel at home there. This is a feeling and not based on something that can be measured. As a matter of fact, I would not want to join a guild where these numbers would be of importance and having such numbers, means that guilds will compete to score as best as possible and it means they will turn less homelike to me.

[Cronospere.8143]

@JpDelano.2580 said:I have a suggestion or idea on how to keep players together. Every MMO out there today advertises there guild as Casual, Friendly, Active, and you get there and sometimes it is sometimes it isnt. If there was a guild search that revealed stats, this would help. For Example the guild seach would reveal a few colums that are system generated, based on how the guild performs and behaves.. It is not selectable by the Guild leader and updates every month. Here is a list of a few colums you would see.

1) Guild Type (Options are Casual, Moderate, Hardcore).. It reveals Caual to indicate that the average player in the guild is logged on for 2 hours per session.

2) Guild Activity (Options are Stagnant, Moderate, Active).. It reveals Moderate to show the guild overall has at least 10-20 players on at any given time..

If you do this. Don't use amounts, but use percentages instead.Our guild chooses to have a maximum 100 players. If we got more we won't know eachother. If 50 members of our 100 are online i consider it active. While a 500 guild with 50 non representing members i conside inactive..When do you consider a guild casual, moderate or hardcore depends on the opinion, Hardcore i consider 10 hours a day. While someone else considers hardcore as 2 hours of high end content playing with meta gear and all in that.opinions.. very hard to get a code considering that.

[JpDelano.2580]

Yeah good points guys. It would be tough to have your guild put out there for others to see the stats, and Ive thought it about it. It would reflect negative on your guild. You can work to improve your Guild rating each month though. I was even considering making a guild just because I want to see a guild built from the ground up, I always like experiencing that aspect of the game. So I get it, and understand the negative connotations it could show for the month, and force you into a hardcore gamestyle just to have players join, when you are not hardcore..

Its the negative connotations … I wasn't really looking at it as negative, because theres nothing wrong with playing for a couple hours a day and being labeled as Casual. However to the average player, that sees the word Casual it could come across a hundred different ways to them. And the only thing you would have is your recruiting message and word of mouth. So you would have to use Low, Moderate, and High as the Rank.

The good thing is that it would be an average. So even small guilds could have a High Dungeon ranking, or a High PvP rating.

On the flip side though, it would match your playstyle, which was the main goal and purpose of the post. Maybe if I worked on the verbiage and people agreed on the idea, it could be presented a little better for Devs to take a gander at it.

Regarding the Active Ranking. It would have to also show the result based on a percentage of players as someone mentioned. So 10-20 players online at any given time would show a result of Hardcore, or Active if they only had 50 people in the guild.

The other flaw is social ranking. If you use discord, then you wont use chat, so then you wont get a rank of Social when and your guild wont pull up in the search result when someone looks for a social guild. Not sure how to fix that one.

There are some holes here and there, but honestly I think if you play at a certain time, and play a certain way, there could be a way for you to find a guild that runs what you run.. without interviews etc, because honestly most guilds just don't interview. I know blind recruiting is a thing in most MMO's because it works to get members. However they likely wont stay if its not a fit for your playstyle.

Anyway food for thought, if you see a way to make this work let me know, or just say its flop its fine. The square peg doesn't have to go in the round hole.

[Rasimir.6239]

@JpDelano.2580 said:the Guilds Overall RankI think this sums up my main problem with the idea: Why does my guild have to have a rank at all? Why do I have to compete with other guilds? This whole game is about cooperating with each other, not competing. Putting in a system that makes guilds compete with each other by fulfilling arbitrary numbers, which will motivate at least some guilds and guild leaders to focus their behaviour heavily on pushing those numbers, just doesn't fit.

[JpDelano.2580]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@JpDelano.2580 said:the Guilds Overall RankI think this sums up my main problem with the idea: Why does my guild have to have a rank at all? Why do I have to compete with other guilds? This whole game is about cooperating with each other, not competing. Putting in a system that makes guilds compete with each other by fulfilling arbitrary numbers, which will motivate at least some guilds and guild leaders to focus their behaviour heavily on pushing those numbers, just doesn't fit.

I think its purpose is to make an easy way to find players that fit your playstyle, promote guild activity, and put a stop to false advertising, and hopefully stop the guild flipping. It could go to a competition phase, I suppose, and stop growth of new guilds. anyway cant say for sure how it would play out. thanks for the feedback

If your guild is laid back and just wants to hang out and have a beer, it should be advertised, I don't mind having a beer.

Side note.. it is called Guild Wars.. Just kidding.

[JpDelano.2580]

my bad wrong reply

[JpDelano.2580]

Ok last post and ill shut up, lol

Here's how this new system would play out. Keep in mind this is all background information and not readily visible, the only way its visible is by searching for a guild.

Pete is a returning player. He presses G and finds out he is no longer in a guild because he took 2 years off to play Frogger on his Atari 2600. Pete goes dang, I forgot how to play this game I need to gear up and run some dungeons. When he presses G, he sees that there is a Guild search feature that has been added to the game. It asks him to put in his search criteria. Pete says, well I need Hardcore fractals because I have no gear at all, and I need a High Activity because im gonna be logged on a lot and want to run long sessions to get some gear, and I probably want social too because I need some chat time.

The results come back. He gets a list of potential guilds in random order( not alphabetized to avoid same guilds showing up each time). He goes ok, I like the name, I like the recruiting message, im gonna check these guys out. He selects them, pushes apply to guild. The Guild officer gets the application, and sees that Pete has zero play time at all this month. Pete gets an email, it says thanks for applying, however your application was denied due to inactivity of chats, fractals, and play time. Feel free to apply next month if you can meet the requirements. (This is system generated, with an optional comment field for the officer to fill in).

Pete goes dang, that stinks, I need a guild. So he goes back to the search field and enters low for activity. modifies everything, and finds a guild. Most of the guilds with low activity will come up for players that have little activity. This could help or hurt.

So anyway, there are holes in the whole idea. Maybe if Pete was granted an average rating across the board because of the inactive status, I don't know.

Once again, if anyone can up with a way for it took work, let me know so we can maybe put something together for the devs to look at.

[Seera.5916]

1. Would need to give numerical data. No labeling the numerical values.
2. Would need to be able to see those numbers at any time.
3. Give players and guilds an opt out of info giving. Players could still apply with numbers hidden, but you would be at the mercy of the guild to reach out for a conversation. Guilds who opt out don't get added to the search. Gives a sense of it being optional for those who may have had personal reasons for their numbers being low that month.
4. Allow for multiple applications per month, but limit number of applications you can have out be equal to number of guild spots you have. So if you have 5 open, you can send out 5 request, but if you only have 1 spot open you can only send out one request. Also have a waiting period of 7 days to reapply to any guild you were rejected from or were kicked from or left. Guilds can send you an invite using the current method to bypass this for those they wish to do so for.
5. Something put somewhere highly visible that just because the numbers match doesn't mean there is a good fit. Numbers are only a small portion of a player or guild. I'd say personality plays a larger part in a good fit.
6. Gives account long numbers too where appropriate. To use Pete: Pete has played 563 fractals in total, 0 in the last month. That way new guild can see that he's done fractals before, just hasn't done any in at least the last month.

Just what I can think of off the top of my head on my phone so it's harder to see previous replies for ideas. Will add more later if I think of anything.

[JpDelano.2580]

1) Yeah that might work. So just give a numerical percentage. So For Guild Activity you would see 15 percent as being the average amount of players on at any given time and maybe 30 percent of average players during guild peak hours, or 40 percent of the Guild has completed a Raid this month.

2) They would be visible via search. So the guild leader could just do a search to get them

3) I do like the opt out this month option, for guild leaders to select. So, they just get an email every month that asks them if they want to opt in or not in the guild search.

4) Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. The only thing I would see wrong with the 7 day reapply is spam. But what your saying is they only have so many slots anyway. so yeah, would be ok.

5) Yeah, I agree the personality is what will keep you there. So would need to allow for good recruiting message in the search, something to personalize it. Maybe some kind of emote. If you wanted to get real in depth with it, you could have a messenger hologram appear in front of them (selected by the guild leader) when they click on guild details during the search. The hologram appears and then in a text box of some sort, all the guild information is there.

6) yeah, that would help things out. So returning players are not constantly rejected.

Thanks for ideas. I think if we can figure something out, devs might be willing to take a look at it. Not sure how hard adding a guild search feature would be to the game, but if keeps players active then why not. I still would like to see if we could present guild mentoring somehow in it. I think if players could see guilds that do this it would go a long way if they are interested in learning raid mechanics etc...

[Seera.5916]

1. For most, straight numbers would be better. Raids for example: # raids completed by members this month either with other guild members or PUG'ed. A larger guild may only have a small percentage of raiders that raid consistently. Whereas a smaller guild may only do raids one or two times a month and show a larger percentage just due to that. A guild may be trying a new wing out and not be very successful yet so not sure how to count failed attempts without leaving it opened to be gamed. Activity is fine as a percentage. People don't need to know that exactly 32 people out of a 50 man guild are on on average. 20% works just fine.

2. It's a if I want to see my own personal stats that a guild would see, I can look at them at any time. Same with a guild. They can see the stats that other players would see.

3. I'd skip the email/in game message. Make it on the guild/player to remember to change their opt in/out settings.

Another idea. Guilds are automatically opted in. Players are automatically opted out, but when you go to apply to guilds if you are opted out of sharing your stats, it reminds you that you won't be sharing your stats and if you would like to opt in.

[JpDelano.2580]

So here's what I was considering submitting to devs. Im not sure where to post it, but I did see a link they have for suggestions basically...

Feel free to change this up because its not completed. My concern is that it will be entirely too long and too detailed, and put people to sleep. I left out a ton of info, but heres what I have so far...…

This is the second post regarding a guild search tool. The previous post had many issues regarding how a guild would be viewed by other players by being classified with a ranking system. This has been modified after a few more ideas.

The point of the tool is so that players can get a good feel for whether or not they want to join a guild by looking at in game guild performance, and will not need to rely solely on guild recruiting messages. In many MMO's the norm is that everyone is casual, everyone is social, everyone is friendly, and everyone runs all content. You join the guild, and no one says a word in chat for 2 hours, and when you ask if someone wants to run a Raid, all you hear is crickets.

Here is a scenario of the player experience with this new search tool

Pete is a returning player. He took a break from the game for two years because he enjoys Frogger on his Atari 2600. He decides to return to the game and see whats new. After he pops in his Run DMC cassette into his ghetto blaster, he notices when pressing G, all he sees is a blank screen with a guild search bar. He realizes he is no longer in a guild due to inactivity. He selects the interface, and is prompted to enter his search criteria. Pete knows he needs gear because his is outdated. He knows he will be playing long sessions, and he knows he needs to run fractals to what he needs. He also wants to meet some folks and hang out.

He selects a heading called Expected Average Play Time. He chooses 6-8 hours from the drop down. Under the heading Fractals he chooses the Often drop down, to indicate that he will be running Fractals a lot. Under the heading Chat usage he selects moderate, indicating he will use chat a moderate amount of the time.

He clicks enter and a list pulls up revealing several Guilds (Random order to avoid same guilds re-appearing upon search). He scrolls down and sees a guild name he likes. He selects the guild. A hologram of a huge Norn appears in front of him with a mug of ale. The Norn looks at his mug, turns it upside down, and says "Pity". Pete glances over at his own mug, realizes it too is empty, and thinks to himself...pity

The Norn then moves his mug closer to Pete as it transforms into a dialog box. The box shows Pete the guild statistics in one column, then his own in another column. Pete compares the stats, says it looks good. At the bottom of the box he sees a submit application button. He sends it on his way. 10 minutes later, a guild officer reviews and replies back. Pete gets the email.It says please accept our complimentary 7 day trial. He clicks accept, and is in the guild.

How it works:The system will keep statistics on each player and on each guild. These statistics are reset every month. At the end of the month, the results will demonstrate the guilds performance for the entire month. Again at end of month, reset... The statistics the game is looking for are: number of dungeons completed, number of raids completed, number of fractals completed, number of chats used, number of PvP matches played, Number of times WvW visited. Then when the total for the guild is calculated, it takes an average of every player in the guild, and gives either a percentage or a flat numerical result.

Ex: To show how long the average player stays on per session may show 4 hours. To show average amount of players online at any given time will show 15 percent indicating 15 percent of the guild is always on anytime. Another heading may show guild peak time being evening. So average players online during peak time would show 25 percent. This helps determine what time the guild is most active.

As for the cool hologram we just saw of the Norn. Those are purchased with in game guild currency by the guild leader or some other means. This will be first impression the player gets of the guild, and will play a part in whether or not the player wants to proceed with an application.

The guild officers will get the applications and either accept or decline them. When they receive an application, they will see exactly what the player just saw, and either accept or decline it. There will also be a comment section for the officer to fill out.

[Seera.5916]

For WvW, I would state WvW activity greater than 10 minutes to remove data from PvE players who simply jump into WvW to do the PvE type WvW dailies.

With that system, I would rank as doing WvW most days when most days I just buy gear or kill a sentry or take a ruin. And I'd hate for my numbers to show that I'm a "WvW player" when I'm not.

As for where to post it, they read the forums. Support typically pushes people to post their suggestions on the forum. Forum moderators will likely close any duplicate you make of this thread, however.

[JpDelano.2580]

Awesome thanks.

[JpDelano.2580]

This is the second post regarding a guild search tool. The previous post had many issues regarding how a guild would be viewed by other players by being classified with a ranking system. This version has been modified in response to some of the opinions to make more sense of it.

The point of the tool is so that players can get a good feel for whether or not they want to join a guild by looking at in game guild performance, and will not need to rely solely on guild recruiting messages. In many MMO's the norm is that everyone is casual, everyone is social, everyone is friendly, and everyone runs all content. You join the guild, and no one says a word in chat for 2 hours, and when you ask if someone wants to run a Raid, all you hear is crickets.

Every month the Guild leader will get an email asking them if they want to opt in the Guild search tool. They can decide to be included or not, or also never be asked again.

Here is a scenario of the player experience with this new search tool

Pete is a returning player. He took a break from the game for two years because he enjoys Frogger on his Atari 2600. He decides to return to the game and see whats new. After he pops in the Run DMC cassette into his ghetto blaster, he notices that while pressing G, all he sees is a blank screen with a guild search bar. He realizes he is no longer in a guild due to inactivity. He selects the interface, and is prompted to enter his search criteria. Pete knows he needs gear because his is outdated. He knows he will be playing long sessions, and he knows he needs to run fractals to get what he needs. He also wants to meet some folks and hang out.

He selects a heading called Expected Average Play Time. He chooses 6-8 hours from the drop down. Under the heading Fractals he chooses the Often drop down, to indicate that he will be running Fractals a lot. Under the heading Chat usage he selects moderate, indicating he will use chat a moderate amount of the time.

He clicks enter and a list pulls up revealing several Guilds (Random order to avoid same guilds re-appearing upon search). He scrolls down and sees a guild name he likes, along with the guild recruiting message. He selects the guild. A hologram of a huge Norn appears in front of him with a mug of ale. The Norn looks at his mug, turns it upside down, and says "Pity". Pete glances over at his own mug, realizes it too is empty, and thinks to himself...pity

The Norn then moves his mug closer to Pete as it transforms into a dialog box. The box shows Pete the guild statistics in one column, then his own in another column. Pete compares the stats, says it looks good. At the bottom of the box he sees a submit application button. He sends it on his way. 10 minutes later, a guild officer reviews and replies back. Pete gets the email.It says please accept our complimentary 7 day trial. He clicks accept, and is in the guild.

How it works:The system will keep statistics on each player and on each guild. These statistics are reset every month. At the end of the month, the results will demonstrate the guilds performance for the entire month. Again at end of month, reset... The statistics the game is looking for are:

1) Number of Raids completed2) Number of Fractals completed3) Number of times chat is used ( this will need to have a cap to avoid spamming and altering stats)4) Amount of time spent in PvP5) Amount of time spent in WvW6) Average amount of time logged in per session7) Average time of day logged on

This will be enough information for the player to determine that his playtime and playstyle matches the guild is looking for. If he wants a Raid only guild, he will have enough information from the statistics to determine that the guild does a lot of raids. If he is looking for a social guild, he should see enough information to know that the guild is social.

As for the cool hologram we just saw of the Norn. Those are purchased with in game guild currency by the guild leader or some other means. This will be first impression the player gets of the guild, and will play a part in whether or not the player wants to proceed with an application.

The guild officers will get the applications and either accept or decline them. When they receive an application, they will see exactly what the player just saw, and either accept or decline it. There will also be a comment section for the officer to fill out.

Anyway, I feel this would be a helpful tool as it would help all player types and the guilds. Additionally I would like to include whether or not a guild offers a mentoring program or not. So if someone wants to learn a raid, the guild would indicate they do raid training. However I have not been able to find any way at all to track this information . A guild leader could select that they do mentoring, and check yes or no. Fortunately I am in a guild I enjoy, however I believe its not the case for all players and the tool would help.

I have left out many details to avoid putting anyone to sleep, but this is the general idea of how it would work

[Dereknor.8645]

The missing guild search is the main reason why i dont play GW2 anymore. It is such an essencial tool, specially for a game that is about "guild wars". 
I am not a very socializing person. I cant just run around, shout "i am searching for a guild". I searched the reddit channel for recruitment and i watched the recruitment forum. But its just too hard to find a good guild. I just failed to find a guild in my language, on my server. People scream in the recruitmentchat, but 99% of the recruitments are not what i search for. So i just turn off the game after some days.
This is the most important feature for me that is missing in this game. I think it is a very poor designdecission that people should find guilds by browsing forums or by shouting in chats. Specially for social phobic people it is impossible to find a guild.
The sad thing is, i really want to play and like this game so much! ;) but without a guild, it is just boring to play.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Use the LFG Guild category?