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Mike Z on pcgamesn.com: Expansions not ruled out


zealex.9410

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This same line was stated durring season 1 of living world; It means they have no intention of doing another expansion, but they don't want to say that because people would get upset. Its kind of like when you ask someone if they want to do something and they sheepishly "Redirect" the notion but never outright agree or disagree, its a passive-aggressive way of confirming we are moving back to this idea that "Living world" Will do what expansions do.

It didn't work then and it probably won't work now, Expansions are easier to promote and sell as well easier to build hype around. Living world or "Sagas" won't be much more to other gamers than a content patch. (People don't come back for patches, they come back for expansions. Blizzard themselves came out and admitted this.) So if big daddy blizz can admit that the only way to garner large amounts of attention is an expansion, it means that is how it is. This is an issue with our culture as gamers; There is plenty of amazing thing content patches do but we still have the "Must do expansion" mentality.

I hope this saga is good, Im hoping for E-specs and a whole slew of other things. But With a-net I don't believe they will deliver anymore and as much as I love the game, this is the point where I began to question whether we can expect "Much" from this saga. Im worried that we won't get the worthwhile changes (Character customization additions, E-specs, new armor styles, Weapon styles, cool things working with the theme.) It almost seems like this is geared to get the charr and norn out of the way, considering A-net does not have a history of liking them much after Eye of the north so we can move on to "Better things"

Regardless this is the story I've wanted, Ill stick around through it and go through the whole thing. Depending on how it goes and what they give me will decide whether or not afterword I leave or not. I want specific things, I as a consumer will expect them especially when they say "Expansion level content" and thus far nothing and I mean NOTHING they have shown or spoken about to me screams expansion "level" content. It's living world with raid training (Can't be bothered to care. I wana do them but I don't care about raiding.) New raids, and new fractals and a storyline (Which is a given by this point.) It has new masteries which is something we've come to expect via-living world but thats all we know.

If thats it.... then it will be like season 1 which could be bad. Im sure the story, maps and so on will be better but season 1 really didn't go over too well in the grand-scheme of things and became more of a problem then it was worth. (Can't replay it, those events are gone rather than permanent additions. I think the changes to kessex hills were good and needed and hope for more this season.)

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@Dami.5046 said:I really don't think they will. I think we will see another game title over an e-xpac, because Guildwars is a ded game, too grindy, not balanced, not on twitch, boring, got ascended armour, hates wvw and pvp, has too many maps, no one wants cantha, no one wants open pvp, housing and fishing means work, complains, moans, etc.

Dead game? Before they announced the layoffsnd reasoning behind it, most people knew GW2 was still one of NCsoft money makers. The layoff came when it was announced that Anet was using resources on a low quality mobile game.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Dami.5046 said:I really don't think they will. I think we will see another game title over an e-xpac, because Guildwars is a ded game, too grindy, not balanced, not on twitch, boring, got ascended armour, hates wvw and pvp, has too many maps, no one wants cantha, no one wants open pvp, housing and fishing means work, complains, moans, etc.

Dead game? Before they announced the layoffsnd reasoning behind it, most people knew GW2 was still one of NCsoft money makers. The layoff came when it was announced that Anet was using resources on a low quality mobile game.

You realise that I was being sarcastic right?My point.So many moans and complains on what people don't want there isn't much left for an expansion.

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@otto.5684 said:The issue now is GW2 LACKS CONTENTSpeaking for me, and the small circle of friends that I play online with, we still have a lot of things left to do, so in our perception there is more than enough content. I have seen others on these very forums saying similar things.

Only Anet has the true metrics on how many players are online and what they're doing. Just because you may have run out of things that you enjoy doing does not necessarily mean that the game lacks content.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:I honestly hope Anet scraps the Expansion idea all together ... it's just another bit of baggage no modern MMO needs to be successful. We don't install from CD's anymore people. In a time where people want constantly released and new content, expansions are pretty stupid if you think about it.

A bold statement.

And according to that, all the top "dogs" of the mmorpg genre (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Black Desert) are doing it wrong.

A bold statement indeed.

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Cool, no expansions in sight. I'll just log in everytime and collect the episode each time a new one is released, play through it over the weekend, and go back to my other things. Hit me up with an expansion when you want my money, the gemstore don't got anything I want. And, thank you all gemstore patrons for keeping the game free to play for me.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@otto.5684 said:The issue now is GW2 LACKS CONTENTSpeaking for me, and the small circle of friends that I play online with, we still have a lot of things left to do, so in our perception there is more than enough content. I have seen others on these very forums saying similar things.

Only Anet has the true metrics on how many players are online and what they're doing. Just because you may have run out of things that you enjoy doing does not necessarily mean that the game lacks content.

This reminds me of SWTOR. GW2 is doing literally the same exact step. SWTOR lost roughly 90% of its player base over the last 2 years.

I still log into SWTOR every once in a while, but the real kicker, the last time I paid money there was maybe 2.5 years ago. Assuming content rate stays the same, I will still log on to GW2 down the road, but spending any money is way out of the picture.

And you say that the community is happy? Go check the reveal feedback forum. I read a good portion of it, and it is overwhelmingly negative. You know why? Beside the unnecessary hype, 2 years after last expansion far more content is expected than another story season spread over probably 18 month. But Anet has nothing else. This game is going to bleed active players, and thus revenue. What Anet is doing has been tried before and failed.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I honestly hope Anet scraps the Expansion idea all together ... it's just another bit of baggage no modern MMO needs to be successful. We don't install from CD's anymore people. In a time where people want constantly released and new content, expansions are pretty stupid if you think about it.

A bold statement.

And according to that, all the top "dogs" of the mmorpg genre (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Black Desert) are doing it wrong.

A bold statement indeed.

Could not agree more. There may come a time when the mentality swings the other way on expansions but today isn't that time and current history bears that out. I think it's laughable to think that all these other major studios are wrong and Anet is right, hell even their corporate ownership disagrees. Defend the choice all you like the future will prove they were wrong, people know what they want and according to every other studio it is expansions.

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Agree with Otto. The game is in a bad state, and the playerbase is slowly decreasing. Those last two years, the rants/constructive feedbacks threads are exploding. "WvW and PvP: abandonned?" "Still no proper balance" "Content drought" "Grindfest" "Not rewarding" "Bugs everywhere" "Wtquaggan is this story?" "Plot holes! Lore holes!" "So slow release cadence!" "Not hearing feedbacks, only gemstore matter!" and recently "Whut dragon gender identity and emotions?!"

Several issues are stagning over the years never solved. All the mistakes made between requiem armor and the sigil of nullification, and now the unreachable legendary sigils and runes. Legendary isn't equal to unavailable. The same error repeated again and again. Stop with unending farm and think about peoples having 2h per day! The forgotten sunrefuge....

Ah and the words repeated each week like "Cantha", "Alliances" and "Expansions"....Espansions are nice, and required to bring in more players. Icebrood Saga has a net trailer, but I still wait to see what are the expansion-level features.

Don't play with feelings Anet, if the expansion players realize what you told is just lies, you will see a swarm of players leaving I swear.

Earnings are clear, peaks are only present during expansions. Don't expect LS to bring back players after 2 years of nothing. (Yeah content each 4 months... what to do between them? At least the festival are fun.) Double LS season is never a good idea.

I left after LS1 because it was followed by LS2, and frankly I hated LS2 when I came back. HoT was nice with rata novan and mordrem. PoF was stunning with the fabulous awakened and forged.

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@otto.5684 said:I dunno why this is of any relevance. I don’t care if there is going to be an expansion 1.5 to 2 years from now. It is not remotely relevant. The issue now is GW2 LACKS CONTENT and story is not going to keep things going for 1+ years.

For some of us its relevant especially if you multi-game. MMOs are long term investments in time. If you know something isn't going to continue then why put time into it versus another game if the relative factor of fun is already balanced. I get the argument are you having fun now, why not just play, but some of the appeal of MMOs is this time now will benefit me later and if later never comes to be its actually this time was wasted. Which is also why some people will nay-say doom-gloom posts when they see things as going on well. Hence more communication and road-maps. You need to cover the people that are going stay no matter wait, entice the ones wondering if this is where they want to be, draw back the ones lurking, and bring in new people.

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There is a new article I highly suggest you read: https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring

They're repeating a few previous points, but also reveal a couple other things: Content team 4, for example, used to do the side content. However, they've been given the tools to increase their releases in size and scope and are currently working on something that is yet to be announced (potential side story content again between releases?)

"Things that we wouldn’t rule out – but that we’re not talking about today – would be like another mount, another elite specialisation , those types of things. Those are all things that traditionally have waited until a boxed product is ready. But instead, now we’re saying, ‘look, here are the things that we’re doing. Here’s what we’re releasing right now. Here’s what’s next.’ "

revealing that these things really are on the table, though they cannot or will not tell us right now.

PvP: Swiss needs back end stuff done still, because "on live it would just crash", once that is done World Restructuring takes center stage. The catch: A bunch of the Swiss work will be able to be applied to World Restructuring as well, further reducing work that needs to be done on it.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@otto.5684 said:The issue now is GW2 LACKS CONTENTSpeaking for me, and the small circle of friends that I play online with, we still have a lot of things left to do, so in our perception there is more than enough content. I have seen others on these very forums saying similar things.

Only Anet has the true metrics on how many players are online and what they're doing. Just because you may have run out of things that you enjoy doing does not necessarily mean that the game lacks content.

I want to add to this and paraphrase something WoodenPotatoes said a few weeks ago. He essentially said that the content is all there, but it isn't asking the player to seek it out. The content is inside all the various achievements and side content that usually gets glossed over, especially since many people still have the mindset that any release is just a 2 hour type of deal which will never be revisited, which is simply untrue and has been for several years.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:There is a new article I highly suggest you read: https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring

They're repeating a few previous points, but also reveal a couple other things: Content team 4, for example, used to do the side content. However, they've been given the tools to increase their releases in size and scope and are currently working on something that is yet to be announced (potential side story content again between releases?)

"Things that we wouldn’t rule out – but that we’re not talking about today – would be like another mount, another elite specialisation , those types of things. Those are all things that traditionally have waited until a boxed product is ready. But instead, now we’re saying, ‘look, here are the things that we’re doing. Here’s what we’re releasing right now. Here’s what’s next.’ "

revealing that these things really are on the table, though they cannot or will not tell us right now.

No. This means they're currently not working on any mount and elite specializations.

CTRL+F for raids: found info about. Found in strike missions answer:

" In the things that we’re looking towards, especially either through achievements or other ways, we can’t forget about the raid players. Also, they won’t let us forget that they exist! But they are a hardcore group that really are passionate. They want challenge, they want things they haven’t seen before. This is an opportunity for us to find ways to service one tier and potentially service the hardcore audience that is already there."Yeah... One raid wing with 3 or 4 bosses every 9 months. Compare that to any other not F2P MMO.

Q:Is there room for a ‘story’ difficulty in raids and other high-end content?

MZ:There is. There’s a constant, constant tug. Do we go build new raids for the raid group, or do we pull somebody to go make the old raids easier? The Bastion of the Penitent is one that we get a lot of comments on, because it’s the Saul D’Alessio story and the mursaat. It’s a very powerful, moving story, and it was very self-contained to that raid. So unless you’re a raider, you never see it.

I would not rule it out. The thing that we need to be careful about is how we manage that expectation. Because if we go back and release ‘story mode’ for an individual raid, that is taking time away from other things like being able to build additional raid content for the raiders. We want to make sure that we’re trying to service both groups.And so Wing 7 was born. Full of non skipable dialogues that no one cares and story more level bosses.

I read this whole interview as: no new elite specializations, there will be new raids but they will be joke/easy mode as Wing 7, no mention about fractals but since last good ones were Nightmare and Shattered Observatory with their CM's I don't really care anymore.

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@theSacred.1942 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:There is a new article I highly suggest you read:

They're repeating a few previous points, but also reveal a couple other things: Content team 4, for example, used to do the side content. However, they've been given the tools to increase their releases in size and scope and are currently working on something that is yet to be announced (potential side story content again between releases?)

"Things that we wouldn’t rule out – but that we’re not talking about today – would be like another
mount,
another
elite specialisation
, those types of things. Those are all things that traditionally have waited until a boxed product is ready. But instead, now we’re saying, ‘look, here are the things that we’re doing. Here’s what we’re releasing right now. Here’s what’s next.’ "

revealing that these things really are on the table, though they cannot or will not tell us right now.

No. This means they're currently
not working on any mount and elite specializations.

That's what YOU read into it. That's not what was said. It wasn't 100% confirmed they would ever release elite specs as part of an LS release before, now we know it might happen. Plus,. why would he talk about things that would be at least half a year away that hasn't even been previously mentioned before? This is something that would happen BEYOND Episode 2, because what happens until then is already pretty much set in stone. They even mention how all teams are currently busy working on the 3 upcoming releases. OBVIOUSLY they're not working on them right now. You pretend that is a bad thing because that's the pessimistic lense you're so overly focused on.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I honestly hope Anet scraps the Expansion idea all together ... it's just another bit of baggage no modern MMO needs to be successful. We don't install from CD's anymore people. In a time where people want constantly released and new content, expansions are pretty stupid if you think about it.

A bold statement.

And according to that, all the top "dogs" of the mmorpg genre (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Black Desert) are doing it wrong.

A bold statement indeed.

Those same "top dogs" also use the outdated - holy trinity - raid new expansion to replace all the gear you had that is junk now - until the next expansion comes out that makes you start all over again, model. GW2 has successfully broken away from that. Not saying I agree that expansions should be scrapped, but to use those games as an example of why GW2 should have expansions makes a fairly uninspired argument.

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@MachineManXX.9746 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I honestly hope Anet scraps the Expansion idea all together ... it's just another bit of baggage no modern MMO needs to be successful. We don't install from CD's anymore people. In a time where people want constantly released and new content, expansions are pretty stupid if you think about it.

A bold statement.

And according to that, all the top "dogs" of the mmorpg genre (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Black Desert) are doing it wrong.

A bold statement indeed.

Those same "top dogs" also use the outdated - holy trinity - raid new expansion to replace all the gear you had that is junk now - until the next expansion comes out that makes you start all over again, model. GW2 has successfully broken away from that. Not saying I agree that expansions should be scrapped, but to use those games as an example of why GW2 should have expansions makes a fairly uninspired argument.

What's the point of listing specific features of those games in an argument about the merits of expansions?

I replied at a post claiming expansions are antiquated and a needless "baggage" in the modern era of mmos. I found that statement paradoxical as the most successful mmorpgs follow this model. A comparison between the features of those mmos and GW2 is irrelevant to the argument. We have had xpacs in GW2 after all and we know the type of features they bring. Fallacy of composition makes for uninspired arguments too.

And to clarify, I would like that statement to be true and Anet could produce the quality and quantity of expansion content through free, live updates. Who doesn't like free stuff? I just don't see it happening.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I honestly hope Anet scraps the Expansion idea all together ... it's just another bit of baggage no modern MMO needs to be successful. We don't install from CD's anymore people. In a time where people want constantly released and new content, expansions are pretty stupid if you think about it.

A bold statement.

And according to that, all the top "dogs" of the mmorpg genre (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Black Desert) are doing it wrong.

A bold statement indeed.

That doesn't indicate the top dogs are doing it wrong. It just indicates that Expansions isn't the ONLY way to deliver content to people in an MMO business model.

I mean, you think it's a bold statement to think that expansion-based content isn't a relic of physical media installs? I would bet my last dollar it is. You honestly think players love the "hit with a massive update every 2 years, surviving the content drought in between" model? I don't think that's very insightful assessment.

and BTW ... Anet HAS been delivering expansion-quality content in more frequent live updates ... so any reference of doubt it can't be done should really not even be in question here.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:> and BTW ... Anet HAS been delivering expansion-quality content in more frequent live updates ... so any reference of doubt it can't be done should really not even be in question here.

That's your opinion and certainly not everyone's including mine. Even if I were to agree that the "quality" of the work is expansion like I cannot even consider agreeing that the "quantity" delivered through the updates remotely touches the overall volume one typically gets in an expansion, even GW2's expansions. As for what they say they would deliver through this newest "Saga" format, all of it is still unknown and unrealized because we haven't seen any of it yet and have no idea if they will be able to meet their current predicted additions. Heck even Mike clearly stated that they are not even talking bout things like elite specs or mounts which are items many have tied to expansions.Also, their latest article they have clearly stated in multiple paragraphs that their goal is to listen to what the players want, even to the point they outright quoted; "Justin Fassino, PR manager: I think the important thing here, obviously, is that everyone at the studio knows that there’s a demand for an expansion. So it’s not like we’re ruling it out."

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@"Randulf.7614" said:“We need to be active in our communication with our community”

Yes, a thousand times yes. Many have been saying this for years now..

Reminded me of the guy who says "Man, I really gotta quit smoking!" as he lights another cigarette.

Look, do it if you're gonna do it but don't just talk about it to random journalists.

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