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Mike Z on pcgamesn.com: Expansions not ruled out


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@"ugrakarma.9416" said:its really not a time for a "expansion" whatsover, expansion for a sake of expansion is non-sense. its a time to polish old-content.

this thread of new content, probably started after early rushers did the skycale collection.

Actually expansion demand came through after living world season 4 was started.

I dont disagree with polishing old content, but it's important to understand that when people are clamoring for an expansion to be -announced- they're not asking for it to be -released-. They only want to know if one is planned, because it's a hefty load of work to make one, and it's a very good estimation of the investment level Anet is willing to pour into the game. What they said about "expansion level content" and what they released shows there is clearly a very wide disparity between the definitions of the company, and that of the playerbase. All they're going to earn through this obstination of secrecy is a swift backlash. Unfortunate to say, but well earned at that : they cant say the playerbase didn't telegraph their expectations, and they've clearly said they are aware of them while taking no stance on it. If they dont actually address the playerbase clearly about what's going to happen, they're going to earn quite a lot of flak. Players dont consider 100 levels of an -existing- crafting profession, a revamp of the base's game's player vs player modes as "expansion content". And that has been stated many times before, so it's not like they're not aware of it. The problem is two-fold : Either they dont plan on releasing what players consider "expansion content", and keep on what they Believe is "expansion content" (akin to AAA game industry company telling their players "No, this is not what you want, we know what you want, here it is"), or they actually have something up their sleeve, and are not telling which is a massive PR waste at best, and a faux-pas at worse, because that's wasted good publicity to new players and the opacity is aggravating existing players.

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@Naxos.2503 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:its really not a time for a "expansion" whatsover, expansion for a sake of expansion is non-sense. its a time to polish old-content.

this thread of new content, probably started after early rushers did the skycale collection.

Actually expansion demand came through after living world season 4 was started.

I dont disagree with polishing old content, but it's important to understand that when people are clamoring for an expansion to be -announced- they're not asking for it to be -released-. They only want to know if one is planned, because it's a hefty load of work to make one, and it's a very good estimation of the investment level Anet is willing to pour into the game. What they said about "expansion level content" and what they released shows there is clearly a very wide disparity between the definitions of the company, and that of the playerbase. All they're going to earn through this obstination of secrecy is a swift backlash. Unfortunate to say, but well earned at that : they cant say the playerbase didn't telegraph their expectations, and they've clearly said they are aware of them while taking no stance on it. If they dont actually address the playerbase clearly about what's going to happen, they're going to earn quite a lot of flak. Players dont consider 100 levels of an -existing- crafting profession, a revamp of the base's game's player vs player modes as "expansion content". And that has been stated many times before, so it's not like they're not aware of it. The problem is two-fold : Either they dont plan on releasing what players consider "expansion content", and keep on what they Believe is "expansion content" (akin to AAA game industry company telling their players "No, this is not what you want, we know what you want, here it is"), or they actually have something up their sleeve, and are not telling which is a massive PR waste at best, and a faux-pas at worse, because that's wasted good publicity to new players and the opacity is aggravating existing players.

I follow the forum for a long time, which I notice that is before the layoffs, there was no such demand. It seems to me like just one more of theses echo chambers created only by the ppl that accompanying game news or read forums. NcSoft's primary flaw was to let it become big news across all sites, instead of make the move secretly. Once the layoffs become big news, the GW2 crowd started demanding "proof" that game inst dying.

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:its really not a time for a "expansion" whatsover, expansion for a sake of expansion is non-sense. its a time to polish old-content.

this thread of new content, probably started after early rushers did the skycale collection.

Actually expansion demand came through after living world season 4 was started.

I dont disagree with polishing old content, but it's important to understand that when people are clamoring for an expansion to be -announced- they're not asking for it to be -released-. They only want to know if one is planned, because it's a hefty load of work to make one, and it's a very good estimation of the investment level Anet is willing to pour into the game. What they said about "expansion level content" and what they released shows there is clearly a very wide disparity between the definitions of the company, and that of the playerbase. All they're going to earn through this obstination of secrecy is a swift backlash. Unfortunate to say, but well earned at that : they cant say the playerbase didn't telegraph their expectations, and they've clearly said they are aware of them while taking no stance on it. If they dont actually address the playerbase clearly about what's going to happen, they're going to earn quite a lot of flak. Players dont consider 100 levels of an -existing- crafting profession, a revamp of the base's game's player vs player modes as "expansion content". And that has been stated many times before, so it's not like they're not aware of it. The problem is two-fold : Either they dont plan on releasing what players consider "expansion content", and keep on what they Believe is "expansion content" (akin to AAA game industry company telling their players "No, this is not what you want, we know what you want, here it is"), or they actually have something up their sleeve, and are not telling which is a massive PR waste at best, and a faux-pas at worse, because that's wasted good publicity to new players and the opacity is aggravating existing players.

I follow the forum for a long time, which I notice that is before the layoffs, there was no such demand. It seems to me like just one more of theses echo chambers created only by the ppl that accompanying game news or read forums. NcSoft's primary flaw was to let it become big news across all sites, instead of make the move secretly. Once the layoffs become big news, the GW2 crowd started demanding "proof" that game inst dying.

I don't think NCSOFT had a choice in the matter. You have to report mass layoffs to the SEC and from there it will go public anyway. Since this is an internet world, ofc, there is no need to wait that long anymore :)If they could have generalized why the layoffs occurred, though, rather than saying they were working on 'other projects' outside of GW2 they probably would have allowed ANET to hold a little more respect. After the fact, NCSOFT looks like a watch-dog grp now and ANET looks like they were squandering resources. Thus, loss of trust naturally required a higher demand of proof that they didn't submarine the game with their management decisions.

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@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:> That doesn't make sense. I didn't blame anyone for anything.Why did i expect that to be your response. Your arguments are always opinion based and I knew you would target that one line and not my argument which is why i left it in there. The fact is everything I said is reality and no amount of trying to shuffle the cards will change it, so stop trying to dress up a defense for not needing an expansion as antiquated methodology in gaming and call a spade a spade. Anet has no other choice but to hope this works at least up until it really is defensible by having it come out in game through this "saga" or until they get it into an expansion.

If you wanted to have a discussion, you shouldn't have opened it with assuming I was attacking people.

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@otto.5684 said:I dunno why this is of any relevance. I don’t care if there is going to be an expansion 1.5 to 2 years from now. It is not remotely relevant. The issue now is GW2 LACKS CONTENT and story is not going to keep things going for 1+ years.

This is true, any new map/content that is released lasts approximately 2-4 weeks before people move onto what they were doing prior to the expansion. I imagine the same will happen when the saga is released. This is why if people are achievement hunters, I heavily encourage them to get to the new content/maps in the first 2 weeks, otherwise after that achievements become nearly impossible to get.

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@otto.5684 said:I dunno why this is of any relevance. I don’t care if there is going to be an expansion 1.5 to 2 years from now. It is not remotely relevant. The issue now is GW2 LACKS CONTENT and story is not going to keep things going for 1+ years.

This is true, any new map/content that is released lasts approximately 2-4 weeks before people move onto what they were doing prior to the expansion. I imagine the same will happen when the saga is released. This is why if people are achievement hunters, I heavily encourage them to get to the new content/maps in the first 2 weeks, otherwise after that achievements become nearly impossible to get.

This is simply wrong and half of it isn't even a negative. Not every release has to invalidate the previous ones, but not once since probably around the start of Season 3 was there ever a time where maps were so dead that nothing could be done on them. The latest release was always the most popular. 3 months after Draconis Mons released it was still comfortably possible to kill the Wyverns. Even Kourna, as unfinished as it felt on release, wasn't dead months after. Most people do not go for achievements whatsoever, which is a damn shame. However, anybody going to do them right now would probably still find enough people to finish the very few achievements that absolutely need a group.

All of these maps have reasons to come back, some more than others. We can't expect all maps to stay relevant into the future, especially not if meta events are what drives them. Another one will be more fun, easier or simply more rewarding. That's not a failure of the system, that's the fact that specific updates to it aren't keeping it fresh.

Sorry for the rant.

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@Naxos.2503 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:its really not a time for a "expansion" whatsover, expansion for a sake of expansion is non-sense. its a time to polish old-content.

this thread of new content, probably started after early rushers did the skycale collection.

Actually expansion demand came through after living world season 4 was started.

I dont disagree with polishing old content, but it's important to understand that when people are clamoring for an expansion to be -announced- they're not asking for it to be -released-. They only want to know if one is planned, because it's a hefty load of work to make one, and it's a very good estimation of the investment level Anet is willing to pour into the game. What they said about "expansion level content" and what they released shows there is clearly a very wide disparity between the definitions of the company, and that of the playerbase. All they're going to earn through this obstination of secrecy is a swift backlash. Unfortunate to say, but well earned at that : they cant say the playerbase didn't telegraph their expectations, and they've clearly said they are aware of them while taking no stance on it. If they dont actually address the playerbase clearly about what's going to happen, they're going to earn quite a lot of flak. Players dont consider 100 levels of an -existing- crafting profession, a revamp of the base's game's player vs player modes as "expansion content". And that has been stated many times before, so it's not like they're not aware of it. The problem is two-fold : Either they dont plan on releasing what players consider "expansion content", and keep on what they Believe is "expansion content" (akin to AAA game industry company telling their players "No, this is not what you want, we know what you want, here it is"), or they actually have something up their sleeve, and are not telling which is a massive PR waste at best, and a faux-pas at worse, because that's wasted good publicity to new players and the opacity is aggravating existing players.

The only expansion feature that has not been put in living world is Elite specs.

Also like to mention that it was said "Things that we wouldn’t rule out – but that we’re not talking about today – would be like another mount, another elite specialisation, those types of things."

Id also like to remind you that this is a prologue episode for kitten sake. They have barely said anything about episode 1 or 2.

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@Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:its really not a time for a "expansion" whatsover, expansion for a sake of expansion is non-sense. its a time to polish old-content.

this thread of new content, probably started after early rushers did the skycale collection.

Actually expansion demand came through after living world season 4 was started.

I dont disagree with polishing old content, but it's important to understand that when people are clamoring for an expansion to be -announced- they're not asking for it to be -released-. They only want to know if one is planned, because it's a hefty load of work to make one, and it's a very good estimation of the investment level Anet is willing to pour into the game. What they said about "expansion level content" and what they released shows there is clearly a very wide disparity between the definitions of the company, and that of the playerbase. All they're going to earn through this obstination of secrecy is a swift backlash. Unfortunate to say, but well earned at that : they cant say the playerbase didn't telegraph their expectations, and they've clearly said they are aware of them while taking no stance on it. If they dont actually address the playerbase clearly about what's going to happen, they're going to earn quite a lot of flak. Players dont consider 100 levels of an -existing- crafting profession, a revamp of the base's game's player vs player modes as "expansion content". And that has been stated many times before, so it's not like they're not aware of it. The problem is two-fold : Either they dont plan on releasing what players consider "expansion content", and keep on what they Believe is "expansion content" (akin to AAA game industry company telling their players "No, this is not what you want, we know what you want, here it is"), or they actually have something up their sleeve, and are not telling which is a massive PR waste at best, and a faux-pas at worse, because that's wasted good publicity to new players and the opacity is aggravating existing players.

The only expansion feature that has not been put in living world is Elite specs.

Also like to mention that it was said "Things that we wouldn’t rule out – but that we’re not talking about today – would be like another mount, another elite specialisation, those types of things."

Id also like to remind you that this is a prologue episode for kitten sake. They have barely said anything about episode 1 or 2.

I know that, and I mentionned it within my last sentences : it's the lack of a clear stance that bothers me personally, and I'm sure quite more people. It's "maybes" and "possibles" or "not ruled out". Nothing that hasn't been announced in february has surfaced so far. I can praise them for sticking to what their roadmap said. I certainly can also point out they're not commiting to more.

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@"Dante.1508" said:"This is a statement: we’re not done" always worries me... Call me jaded but that screams of we aren't doing too well but we must say the opposite, i really hope i'm wrong..

Same here. They had already said they were not done after the layoffs, and that they would have had minimal impact on GW2; now they make a big show of saying "everything is fine!". It worries me too.

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@Erasculio.2914 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:"This is a statement: we’re not done" always worries me... Call me jaded but that screams of we aren't doing too well but we must say the opposite, i really hope i'm wrong..

Same here. They had already said they were not done after the layoffs, and that they would have had minimal impact on GW2; now they make a big show of saying
. It worries me too.

Agreed, usually dev companies are silent as they work on projects, this Everything is ok nothing to see here reminds me of those comedy movies..

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@"Dante.1508" said:"This is a statement: we’re not done" always worries me... Call me jaded but that screams of we aren't doing too well but we must say the opposite, i really hope i'm wrong..

Exactly. It's like the owner of a professional sports team giving the coach a vote of confidence. If you're doing so badly you feel you need to speak publicly about how badly you're not doing, that's pretty bad . . .

In this case though I'd say it's just a bad look, it doesn't mean anything either way about what's actually going on . . .

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Maybe take the comment in context; it makes a bit more sense:

"We want to be – we need to be active in our communication with the players. They may not necessarily always see that we’re listening. But we’re lurking on all the forums, and on Reddit, and we’re in the game. So we’re hearing what people are talking about. We also have data metrics on our end telling us what players are doing. A lot of it is sifting through that data to figure out what is noise and what is super important to this game. How do we make sure that we continue to keep it healthy?

I saw a comment on Reddit that was like ‘Why would you get up on stage and announce something like this?’ This is a statement. This is us coming forward and saying ‘we’re not done.’ Because we just spent a bunch of money to show everybody all the cool stuff that’s going on. Seven years later, we still have the same commitment we’ve had to this game for a very long time.

So we’re going to continue to give updates, we’re going to continue to be iterative in our design processes, and how we can release things faster and more efficiently. But we’re also going to find ways to be better about communicating our intention. We’ve tried a couple different things."

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