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Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 13th 2019


Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

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@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:This post isn't a request for more feedback, but a heads-up that we're going to be getting the changes tested and vetted internally while we get stuff ready.

so the story so far we have a 2 weeks long discussion about changes that have minor effect on WvW current meta and then leave the single most important change that may affect the WvW meta to be dropped at the last second and with no window for feedback . GREATso now our only chance that their testing team reach the "obvious" conclusion that this change is horrible ( not only to WvW but PvP & PvE ) and cancel it .or at least 3 months of scourge hitting more target in WvW and completely deleted in PvP & PvE .chances are slim but finger crossed that Anet listen to this feedback .

My thoughts. When i saw that they do not want any more feedback, I remembered that we are dealing with Anet and listening to WvW-players in general was never one of their strengths :') Tbf though a bunch of PvE- and PvP-Players also gave valuable input about the effects in their game-modes.If they implement it the way it's being stated here we at least know, that the wvw focused patch was as much focused on wvw as their announcement was 'big'.

Plus I am afraid that a lot of WvW-Players that were holding on to a decent WvW focused patch will leave for good. Yes, I am aware, that we WvW-Players like saying that :P I got to say though that it's not a suprise with the kind of patches we got :x

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I am not an experienced Scourge player so my opinion doesn't hold as much weight, but I feel like a "Recall Shade" flipover skill option could help alleviate the glaring issue I see arising due to the proposed shade change. This would mean reducing it to only one shade at a time for non-Sand Savant, but with the target increase, perhaps this would be fair to make it less terrible for PvP and small scale? Make it instant cast but with a 0.5s delay on using shade skills or something like that. I still think Sand Savant needs to be reevaluated and made into a strictly supportive option, but I would hate to see another Illusionary Persona effect happen to Scourge in non-zerg settings.

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Punishing scourge for placing a shade and leaving them unable to do anything in melee for 15 seconds results in more passive play, not more active strategizing. You have to choose whether to hide at range and stay there because pushing will be suicide. And with this, for scourges who do push, instead of placing your shades where you will be so you get 10 cap limit, now you just... walk in and push buttons. I don't really understand this change in the context of anet's goals to make players play more thoughtfully and actively.

Thematically/mechanically replacing chemical field to get detection pulse back similarly doesn't make sense. I know anet never ever hits undo on any change they've done (even one that has proven to be poor) but just putting detection pulse back on f5 makes more sense for what they're trying to accomplish.

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Hey again all

I think it's a clear mistake to buff #targets for scourge. 20% less damage on 2x the number of targets is an overall 60% damage increase. This is only going to lead to MORE scourges not fewer.

The core issue with WVW (and why I stopped playing) is that after 7 years, the same 4 meta classes continue to dominate the meta. Guard continues to be the best support, necro continues to be the best PBAE/bombing/boon corruption class, and rev the best ranged bombing class.

Please fix

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I am not an experienced Scourge player so my opinion doesn't hold as much weight, but I feel like a "Recall Shade" flipover skill option could help alleviate the glaring issue I see arising due to the proposed shade change. This would mean reducing it to only one shade at a time for non-Sand Savant, but with the target increase, perhaps this would be fair to make it less terrible for PvP and small scale? Make it instant cast but with a 0.5s delay on using shade skills or something like that. I still think Sand Savant needs to be reevaluated and made into a strictly supportive option, but I would hate to see another Illusionary Persona effect happen to Scourge in non-zerg settings.

A flip skill would only apply if the scourge has all of its shades out which would seriously weaken the other 2 traits while making Sand Savant extremely oppressive. Even more so than it is with this update. So hard pass.

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Limodriver.4106 said:change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

G'day

Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

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REV:As a main rev im ok with all 3 listed changes. I see what is the goal and I get it.IR could be like a underwater version(with breakstun on it), but pretty nice.Hammer will be less unique but maybe we get something nice in the future(something nice doesnt mean moar dmg).Gaze of Darkness thank you, this is QoL change. +1

Scourge:Well as ppl mentioned for WvW it will be good change but for PvP and PvE this change will be horrible.Scourge doesnt have shroud, so he is shade also. Right now it will be in PvP waiting for that drop(shade) and then burst. Cuz necro cannot defend himself. This will makethis espec even more dependend on your FB(no change here, still superior to everything). If you rework Shades to Switch(activate deactivate, so you can use minor trait forplacing shade) it can work. Otherwise... If you somehow make this work it will be great.

I dont wanna discuss other classes cuz I dont play them much, but I like it overall. Maybe guard could get hit little bit more. He is the pillar of every wvw meta, but trade it for something else so it doesnt get "chrono treatment"(its actualy necro treatment :astonished: )

When this will go in to game?

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Limodriver.4106 said:change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

G'day

Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

More than one dodge would basically mean your positioning is bad and it will be more than just MS, scourge wells, rev hammers for example, if the ele cancels it's casting on MS then there will be less meteors dropping at a slower rate aswell, Arcane shield rarely saves an ele lol

If your going to ask for nerfs, atleast play and understand the class before you do.. it does help

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Limodriver.4106 said:change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

G'day

Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

More than one dodge would basically mean your positioning is bad and it will be more than just MS, scourge wells, rev hammers for example, if the ele cancels it's casting on MS then there will be less meteors dropping at a slower rate aswell, Arcane shield rarely saves an ele lol

If your going to ask for nerfs, atleast play and understand the class before you do.. it does help

Was a lot of fun being top dmg even before most recent ele changes (buffs?!)And I didn't have any problem with surviving. And if you are exactly in the middle of the area, you do need 2 dodges to get out.

You should by far outrange scourges and heralds.

You know about the burning retreat + immediately cast meteor shower + then reposition with blink combo?If yes, you are either very unlucky with positioning of you get hit by scourges or revs, or you positioning is beyond being bad

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I’m begging you to not give the Scourge the same treatment as the Chronomancer.

A support blood Scourge in PvP relies on being able to give themselves barrier. If a shade is cast, and if the necro can’t cast shade again on themselves, the Necro will die instantly unless it hugs the shade. If a Scourge can’t give themselves barrier, they will die instantly in 1vs1 or even 1vs 2.

If you change the shade mechanic this way, Scourge will be eliminated from PvP, but will still be dominate in WvW without changing what is really broken. The problem has always been Sand Savant, and this should be what is nerfed, not the entire Scourge profession shade mechanic.

It would help if the balance team actually plays PvP and WvW. I play both and you will be making a huge mistake doing this change to shade mechanic.

I will definitely stop playing PvP, and will play even less WvW as I will be convinced the balance team has no idea what they are doing with the future of this game.

Fix Sand Savant in WvW, not completely nerfing every Competitive Scourge build from PvP.

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Limodriver.4106 said:change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

G'day

Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

More than one dodge would basically mean your positioning is bad and it will be more than just MS, scourge wells, rev hammers for example, if the ele cancels it's casting on MS then there will be less meteors dropping at a slower rate aswell, Arcane shield rarely saves an ele lol

If your going to ask for nerfs, atleast play and understand the class before you do.. it does help

Was a lot of fun being top dmg even before most recent ele changes (buffs?!)And I didn't have any problem with surviving. And if you are exactly in the middle of the area, you do need 2 dodges to get out.

And all Eles do is damage, where Scourge can do decent damage, Decent Barrier and Decent Boon Corruption Like i said, its bad positioning that got you in the middle of a bomb so that is your bad.

You should by far outrange scourges and heralds.your point?

You know about the burning retreat + immediately cast meteor shower + then reposition with blink combo?If yes, you are either very unlucky with positioning of you get hit by scourges or revs, or you positioning is beyond being badI'm not sure what you are trying to say, If my position is bad and i get destroyed by necros and Revs? that's fine.. I just look at what I did wrong and work on that

I do know about the Combos to get MS off, but LF is a 40 second CD, BR at 16 Seconds and MS at 24 seconds, personally i try not to use LF if possible so I can save it for moments when i need to gtfo

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

In PvP it needs a nerf, but not in PvE.

i meant in pvp. a 300range is almost nothing

It says range for some reason but it's actually a radius. And 300 radius is not that small. Yes, it's way smaller than 600 and exponentially so, but if you compare it to similar skills of other professions 300 is way more fair than 600. 480 would still be quite a bit more than what other professions get for pbAoEs that make you stay still for the cast.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

In PvP it needs a nerf, but not in PvE.

i meant in pvp. a 300range is almost nothing

It says range for some reason but it's actually a radius. And 300 radius is not that small. Yes, it's way smaller than 600 and exponentially so, but if you compare it to similar skills of other professions 300 is way more fair than 600. 480 would still be quite a bit more than what other professions get for pbAoEs that make you stay still for the cast.

imo holo isnt a class that really needs any nerf. It can be good..."can".other classes could need a nerf slightly more then the holoand its not like hes doing abnormal things with that skill

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