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UK Officials Say Loot Boxes Are Gambling

Shadowmoon.7986

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108
Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist f

Jumpin Lumpix.6108
Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist f

Jumpin Lumpix.6108
Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist f

AlexxxDelta.1806

AlexxxDelta.1806

Posted
Posted

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

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Trise.2865

Trise.2865

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Well I totally disagree with you on everything. I dont see how this is anymore gambling then killing mobs or using the mystic forge for precursors.

The mystic forge and ecto gamble you can use real life money to participate in those as well. Yet the focus is on black lion chests? It's all the exact same thing lol. Yet some are "ok" and others arent and it seems to be at your own personal moral discretion as to where the line should be drawn, with no logic used whatsoever.

You're right about one thing: It's all potentially destructive, definitively manipulative, operant conditioning. The difference is the conditioned behaviors: one conditions you to do or repeat an activity, the other conditions you to repeat spending money. Compulsively repeating an activity is generally harmless, compulsively spending money is not. I shouldn't have to explain that actively harming a consumer base is undesirable for long-term business, especially if it means they have less money to spend on that business' products, and VERY undesirable to that consumer base itself.

I suppose you're now going to tell me that compulsion doesn't exist either? That it's "just another religious construct", despite decades of scientific evidence and hundreds of studies... but then who would be using "no logic whatsoever"?

This whole argument is religiously based clearly,

Your "argument" ended here. Dismissed.

Do try to stay on topic, won't you?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

Whats next are you gonna say that because I think nuclear arms should be regulated thats justification for lootboxes being on par with nuclear arms and therefore we need restrictions to protect children?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@Trise.2865 said:

Well I totally disagree with you on everything. I dont see how this is anymore gambling then killing mobs or using the mystic forge for precursors.

The mystic forge and ecto gamble you can use real life money to participate in those as well. Yet the focus is on black lion chests? It's all the exact same thing lol. Yet some are "ok" and others arent and it seems to be at your own personal moral discretion as to where the line should be drawn, with no logic used whatsoever.

You're right about one thing: It's all potentially destructive, definitively manipulative, operant conditioning. The difference is the conditioned behaviors: one conditions you to do or repeat an activity, the other conditions you to repeat spending money. Compulsively repeating an activity is generally harmless, compulsively spending money is not. I shouldn't have to explain that actively harming a consumer base is undesirable for long-term business, especially if it means they have less money to spend on that business' products, and VERY undesirable to that consumer base itself.

I suppose you're now going to tell me that compulsion doesn't exist either? That it's "just another religious construct", despite decades of scientific evidence and hundreds of studies... but then who would be using "no logic whatsoever"?

This whole argument is religiously based clearly,

Your "argument" ended here. Dismissed.

Do try to stay on topic, won't you?

thats really the only argument I'm not sure any of you even play this game. In fact im positive now that you guys don't. I mean random drops from mobs ok, but random drops from black lion chests arent ok?

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AlexxxDelta.1806

AlexxxDelta.1806

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine.

This whole thread is about a proposed legislation change. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

You said that first though. Apparently we are not fit to be "deciders" but you are? That's called delusions of grandeur doc, but I'm sure you knew that.

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

You said that first though. Apparently we are not fit to be "deciders" but you are? That's called delusions of grandeur doc, but I'm sure you knew that.

thats because lootboxes are so benign and are like so many other things already in the game, that when you analyze the logic of lootboxes in gw2 it makes you extremely hypocritical to be not ok with lootboxes but to be ok with just about every other element of gw2 that contains RNG.

So it has nothing to do with me being the decider its common sense.

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Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:thats because lootboxes are so benign and are like so many other things already in the game, that when you analyze the logic of lootboxes in gw2 it makes you extremely hypocritical to be not ok with lootboxes but to be ok with just about every other element of gw2 that contains RNG.

So it has nothing to do with me being the decider its common sense.Problem is, here you apparently appoint yourself to be a sole arbiter of what common sense is and isn't. For me, for example, it's common sense that lootboxes and RNG drops from mobs are not the same thing (for one, in the second case the real money is not involved).

So, you see no problem with you, yourself, deciding, but at the same time you do not think anyone besides you can do that.

If there's any hypocrisy here, it's not on my side, that's for sure.

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Ol Nik.2518

Ol Nik.2518

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said.

Nuclear submarines move in seawater.I can move in seawater.Therefore I am a nuclear submarine.

I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is.

They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case.Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible.

So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

I really think that you need to get your facts straight. You are bombarding this thread with one straw man after another. Please provide a direct quote from me saying that RNG-based loot tables are okay. Also while you are looking for that quote, please find the one that supports your allegation that I believe that I should be 'the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn'.

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Erasculio.2914

Erasculio.2914

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Posted

Yeah, this discussion sounds a bit pointless now.

We all know that it's only a matter of time until loot boxes get regulated by governments worldwide (no matter how many times someone throws a tantrum about it).

The question is, how will they be regulated? And how will ArenaNet deal with it? Will they just remove the loot box mechanics from the game, like they did in Belgium? Will they change something else in the game, such as saying it's for a "18 years or older" audience? Or something in between?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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Posted

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:thats because lootboxes are so benign and are like so many other things already in the game, that when you analyze the logic of lootboxes in gw2 it makes you extremely hypocritical to be not ok with lootboxes but to be ok with just about every other element of gw2 that contains RNG.

So it has nothing to do with me being the decider its common sense.Problem is, here you apparently appoint yourself to be a sole arbiter of what common sense is and isn't. For me, for example, it's common sense that lootboxes and RNG drops from mobs are
not
the same thing (for one, in the second case the real money is not involved).

So, you see no problem with you, yourself, deciding, but at the same time you do not think anyone besides you can do that.

If there's any hypocrisy here, it's not on my side, that's for sure.

but you can get keys, from mobs or story events, and by farming anything in the game for gold then converting it to gems and buying keys with essentially playtime..The contents of the chests cannot be converted into $, which means its a one way transaction with 0 promise ever of an equal or higher return. No matter what you get from it, the return is always $0 which makes this entertainment, just like every other activity in this game.

HOW can you not SEE this logic!!

im clearly wasting my time with this.

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Ol Nik.2518

Ol Nik.2518

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Posted

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

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Dante.1508

Dante.1508

Posted
Posted

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said.

Nuclear submarines move in seawater.I can move in seawater.Therefore I am a nuclear submarine.

I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is.

No it's a direct comparison and I like how everyone ignored what I posted before this post.

According to you, logic =

Spending hours of time on everything in the game that has rng even though (time= money) = okSpending money on boosters that increase magic find = okSpending money on ecto gamble = okSpending money on mystic forge = okSpending money on dye packs = okSpending money on mount licences = okSpending money black lion chests = not ok

Lol.....

None of those are ok.....

Lmao so we should eliminate rng drops from the game? Why do you even play this game if you feel this way? This really makes me question who I'm talking too. Theres 0 logic and Its like saying I play gw2 which is an mmorpg but I really hate the rpg element of it. Take it out and it will be perfect.

Yes RNG is a joke here, and i play because there is more to this game than gambling on stuff.. I mostly play the stories..

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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Posted

@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/missouri-senator-loot-box-ban-bill-1203208889/

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Ol Nik.2518

Ol Nik.2518

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Posted

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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Posted

@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

Do I really need to lead you to look into who is proposing what, do you really believe this isnt just religious morals, because that's all it is.

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Ol Nik.2518

Ol Nik.2518

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Posted

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

Do I really need to lead you to look into who is proposing what, do you really believe this isnt just religious morals, because that's all it is.

Do you have any proof?What about the co-sponsors of this bill (there are two of them: Blumenthal and Markey)?How about Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu (Hawaii House of Representatives) and his bill?

Can you prove that all these people are just trying to advance 'religious morals'?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Posted
Posted

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

Do I really need to lead you to look into who is proposing what, do you really believe this isnt just religious morals, because that's all it is.

Do you have any proof?What about the co-sponsors of this bill (there are two of them: Blumenthal and Markey)?How about Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu (Hawaii House of Representatives) and his bill?

Can you prove that all these people are just trying to advance 'religious morals'?

I know what their religious views are. go look it up.

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Ol Nik.2518

Ol Nik.2518

Posted
Posted

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

Do I really need to lead you to look into who is proposing what, do you really believe this isnt just religious morals, because that's all it is.

Do you have any proof?What about the co-sponsors of this bill (there are two of them: Blumenthal and Markey)?How about Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu (Hawaii House of Representatives) and his bill?

Can you prove that all these people are just trying to advance 'religious morals'?

I know what their religious views are. go look it up.

So, no factual support again?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Posted
Posted

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

Do I really need to lead you to look into who is proposing what, do you really believe this isnt just religious morals, because that's all it is.

Do you have any proof?What about the co-sponsors of this bill (there are two of them: Blumenthal and Markey)?How about Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu (Hawaii House of Representatives) and his bill?

Can you prove that all these people are just trying to advance 'religious morals'?

I know what their religious views are. go look it up.

So, no factual support again?

It's not my job to look up things for you.

Fact of the matter is, If you dislike lootboxes then you dislike the mystic forge, mount licences, rng drops from mobs, dye packs, magic find boosters, ecto gamble. All of these activities can be enhanced or done with real life money. Technically anything with variance you should be against, otherwise it's hypocritical. They are all variations on the exact same thing.

Even more so because black lion chests give no stat advantages, (so its not pay2win) have no monetary value, are entirely optional, and you get them from story and mob drops. In addition, all sources of gold in game can be converted into gems for keys, which means you're literally converting playtime (killing mobs and doing events for rng drops) into gems. And yes, of course, cash to gems for keys.

When you add all of this up, your argument is quite ridiculous.

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Cristalyan.5728

Cristalyan.5728

Posted
Posted

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

but you can get keys, from mobs or story events, and by farming anything in the game for gold then converting it to gems and buying keys with essentially playtime..The contents of the chests cannot be converted into $, which means its a one way transaction with 0 promise ever of an equal or higher return. No matter what you get from it, the return is always $0 which makes this entertainment, just like every other activity in this game.

HOW can you not SEE this logic!!

im clearly wasting my time with this.

The difference here is that you can obtain your RNG loot from playing. With the lootboxes you obtain a RNG result by paying RL money. The regulation is about this kind of lootboxes. If ANet eliminates the BLKeys from Gem Store and keeps them only as drops in the game, then your logic is OK. But, again, the regulation is about the RNG content of something you buy with real money.

Another detail: Regulation does not mean prohibition. If a regulation anti lootboxes will be adopted, then the Game Companies will have two possible way to continue:

  • To eliminate the RNG element from the boxes - with other words you see what you buy, OR
  • Raise the PEGI of the game and advertise the game as a something containing gambling elements. And (probably) to pay taxes as any gambling company.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Fact of the matter is, If you dislike lootboxes then you dislike the mystic forge, mount licences, rng drops from mobs, dye packs, magic find boosters, ecto gamble. All of these activities can be enhanced or done with real life money. Technically anything with variance you should be against, otherwise it's hypocritical. They are all variations on the exact same thing.

Even more so because black lion chests give no stat advantages, (so its not pay2win) have no monetary value, are entirely optional, and you get them from story and mob drops. In addition, all sources of gold in game can be converted into gems for keys, which means you're literally converting playtime (killing mobs and doing events for rng drops) into gems. And yes, of course, cash to gems for keys.

When you add all of this up, your argument is quite ridiculous.

I don't think the regulation will try to change the RNG in game. Only the RNG on items you buy with real money. What you say about going into a Store and asking for a bottle of wine? The vendor takes your money and then throw some dices. And he says - well, you won this time a complete set of shawing blades+the foam as a bonus. You can try again if you want your wine. Hm?

We all know that the BLChests are entirely optional and most of us can control the impulse to buy more than you can afford. But what about children? Without a strong self-control? They can be very easy manipulated. I don't take here into consideration the adults with self-control issues. But the children. Is the protection of the children a religious issue? Then, US and all the European countries are religious dictatures. Because all cares about children.

The mount licence box where you can receive a random one by trying your luck has been debated and even ANet indirectly admitted the mistake by announcing that the following releases of mount licences will not follow the same model. On the other hand ONE licence for a certain mount is not RNG, so it is not gambling.All the other details excepting the loot boxes (and the first release of mounts adoption box) if you don't want to pay RL money are accessible with gold only. So, this is an ingame RNG element and I don't think it will be subject of (immediate) regulation.You cannot directly buy Ectos with RL money. Yes, you can buy gems. But with gems you buy gold - and this is the point where nobody will go further. You knew what you bought. Gold. What you will do with the gold ingame is not subject of regulation.

Do you have any personal involvement into gaming industry? Because you react to the regulation idea as to a direct and personal attack.

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Tommo Chocolate.5870

Tommo Chocolate.5870

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Posted

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

This is great. I'd add to this that with a Kinder Egg, the range of possible contents is much narrower than that of a lootbox. Since lootboxes are digital, there's much more scope for putting a wider variety of items inside: they're like Kinder Eggs where some of them contain a car, while others contain a piece of string.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said.

Nuclear submarines move in seawater.I can move in seawater.Therefore I am a nuclear submarine.

I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is.

They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case.Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible.

So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman.

The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability).

Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it.

That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor.

Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer.

To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years.

Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder:

So again, you are strawmaning.

That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life.

By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too.

Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it.

Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no.

Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic.

Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything.

This is false. Sure, if your methodology is flawed, you can use data and statistics to appear to show whatever you like - but you won't have actually proved anything. Use of data and statistics is common and important in psychology, so if you really dismiss any research involving statistics, you're going to have a hard time being a psychologist. I'm not saying that every good psychologist needs to be as fluent in statistics as a statistician - but they do need to know the limits of their statistical knowledge, and know when they need advice from someone with more statistical training. (Also, even if it's true, no one in this thread is going to believe that you're a psychologist - especially if you're so dismissive of research in the discipline.)

Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic.

Why are you convinced that this is a religious moral argument? The only person I've seen mentioning religion in this thread is you.

Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to.

Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways.

Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can.

So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be
legally
able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this.

Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all.

It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now.

Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine

Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing.

Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide!

“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”

And the relevant source :

Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn.

Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox.

Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people.

Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming.

You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that?

Alchohol is not even on the same planet as gambling or lootboxes, why compare that?

Ok then. So apparently you consider some addictions fit for regulations and others not. And that means people (in this case you) can be the deciders and draw lines where they want. Picking and choosing what addiction is bad and what isn't pretty much.

But oh wait, isn't that you here ?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn?

and here?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said: Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic.

These are pretty big contradictions doc, might want to look into that.

Well since we already have laws deciding what is and isn't gambling and lootboxes are clearly not that, there's no need to worry. Your children are fine. You asked ME my opinion, if "things" unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated, and when I said yes some things unrelated to lootboxes should be regulated you then use that to say oh who are you to decide what needs regulating. That is some crazy logic.

This whole thread is about a proposed
legislation
change doc. Just like in Belgium. Did you miss that? It's in the OP.

yah and I think its heavy handed, every person who has brought forward this type of legislation did it from a religious moral standpoint. Everyone who even talks about it here in the us always has a heavy religious background, so its pretty clear as to what it is these people want and who they are, and I completely disagree with it.

I also love how everyone in this thread has not mentioned what kind of regulation they want, or if that would even stop it or how it would be implemented or what it is, or how they can even justify the concept of some elements of RNG being ok and others are not in a RPG.

Can you support any of these statements with facts?

And which of the statements in question does this article support?

Do I really need to lead you to look into who is proposing what, do you really believe this isnt just religious morals, because that's all it is.

Do you have any proof?What about the co-sponsors of this bill (there are two of them: Blumenthal and Markey)?How about Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu (Hawaii House of Representatives) and his bill?

Can you prove that all these people are just trying to advance 'religious morals'?

I know what their religious views are. go look it up.

If your reasoning is that some religious people oppose lootboxes, therefore everyone who opposes lootboxes must do so for religious reasons, then you're not in a position to criticise people for flawed logic. And in case you can't see why your logic there is a flawed, here's an analogous example: many people are opposed to eating pork for religious reasons, but it is not the case that everybody opposed to eating pork is religious. (And that's without even considering the fact that religious people can have reasons for supporting a bill other than their own religious morals.)

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