power creep fix - remove ferocity, make crits do double damage as base line

[Stand The Wall.6987]

adjust skills, gear, and pve as necessary. would take a lot of work but one shot builds would finally be a thing of the past... for the most part. theres still + dmg mods and 25 might to consider. obviously would have to change knights gear so that its power dominant and maybe add in some armor penetration to some key skills for all professions to prevent excessive bunkering.

I dunno just an idea.

[Blocki.4931]

Just remove crit chance :trollface:

Double damage on everything and it will still be overall power negative, with one stat less to worry about so people will dump that into HP.

Turn Precision into hit rate for a bonus :trollface:

[Pifil.5193]

Seriously, if you do this you just gave every hybrid and condi build a significant damage boost. And if you're not building in ferocity then where are you going to put your stats? Terrible idea, I think.

[Operator.2590]

How to fix power creep: There is no power creep.

[rng.1024]

How about we completely remove damage mods and replace them with a sensible amount of ferocity instead, hmm?

This way they will no longer pile upon strength, might and skill coefficients while retaining builds burst potential, only now 100% reliant on crit chance. This also means that the damage packet divided by armor will be smaller, which again slightly lowers the crit damage should it be replaced by an equal amount of ferocity.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

A better solution would be to have toughness reduce incoming crit damage by a certain amount for each 100 toughness beyond the base 1000 that you get at level 80. This achieves both your original idea of removing power creep a bit and also elevating the toughness stat to be more important in every game mode. If you really wanted you could also have it reduced incoming condition damaged by the same amount.

[perilisk.1874]

Make double damage baseline for crits, and make ferocity scale up hard CC duration and breakbar damage even more.

Scale endurance regen to Toughness and reduce the armor impact as needed to balance it.

[Cyninja.2954]

So your solution to power creep is: more power creep?

Not only are you increasing baseline crit damage by 50% from 150% to 200% (which is literally 750 free ferocity given 15 ferocity = 1% crit damage. At 961 ferocity on berserker gear, you are basically giving almost the entire ferocity amount for free). You then decide to remove 1 stat which now would simply get replaced by a new damage stat.

So power builds would be running Power, Precision and Condition damage (granted, not yet available in this constelation, only as precision main). Condition builds would simply keep running Viper, only now with more crit damage.

Didn't think that one through did we now?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:A better solution would be to have toughness reduce incoming crit damage by a certain amount for each 100 toughness beyond the bass 1000 that you get at level 80. This achieves both your original idea of removing power creep a bit and also elevating the toughness stat to be more important in every game mode. If you really wanted you could also have it reduced incoming condition damaged by the same amount.

sounds like a good solution at first, but how much would toughness reduce crit damage? 25% at +1k toughness? combined with the natural damage reduction of armor that would add up to a ton of damage reduction. add another 1k toughness and its a pseudo invuln lol.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Cyninja.2954 said:So your solution to power creep is: more power creep?

Not only are you increasing baseline crit damage by 50% from 150% to 200% (which is literally 750 free ferocity given 15 ferocity = 1% crit damage. At 961 ferocity on berserker gear, you are basically giving almost the entire ferocity amount for free). You then decide to remove 1 stat which now would simply get replaced by a new damage stat.

So power builds would be running Power, Precision and Condition damage (granted, not yet available in this constelation, only as precision main). Condition builds would simply keep running Viper, only now with more crit damage.

Didn't think that one through did we now?

cleanses. also since ppl no longer have to build for ferocity they can put it in defensive stats which equals more damage reduction, so we're realistically looking at a lot less damage done overall.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@rng.1024 said:How about we completely remove damage mods and replace them with a sensible amount of ferocity instead, hmm?

This way they will no longer pile upon strength, might and skill coefficients while retaining builds burst potential, only now 100% reliant on crit chance. This also means that the damage packet divided by armor will be smaller, which again slightly lowers the crit damage should it be replaced by an equal amount of ferocity.

that's a lot more realistic idea. sounds good to me lol, friggen one shots are such crap.

[Obtena.7952]

Why would this have any impact on power creep?

[mindcircus.1506]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:adjust skills, gear, and pve as necessary. would take a lot of work but one shot builds would finally be a thing of the past... for the most part. theres still + dmg mods and 25 might to consider. obviously would have to change knights gear so that its power dominant and maybe add in some armor penetration to some key skills for all professions to prevent excessive bunkering.

I dunno just an idea.

after all the math and work they did to put ferocity in the game? Not likely.Your idea here suggests that you don't want to address certain dominant specs so much as you want a significant shift towards a playstyle more aligned with your preference.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"FrigginPaco.4178" said:A better solution would be to have toughness reduce incoming crit damage by a certain amount for each 100 toughness beyond the bass 1000 that you get at level 80. This achieves both your original idea of removing power creep a bit and also elevating the toughness stat to be more important in every game mode. If you really wanted you could also have it reduced incoming condition damaged by the same amount.

sounds like a good solution at first, but how much would toughness reduce crit damage? 25% at +1k toughness? combined with the natural damage reduction of armor that would add up to a ton of damage reduction. add another 1k toughness and its a pseudo invuln lol.

Well remember two important things:

1. I was just giving a very basic formula that could be iterated upon to make it less oppressive than our current hypothetical. It just serves to get the idea out there. Someone else better suited at measuring damage metrics at Anet would find a better number, most likely anyhow. I'm just a guy on a forum!
2. By "beyond" the standard 1k just means that there's no change to it when no additional toughness has been added. Essentially, my proposed beneficial effects of toughness would only take place after investing in it. All it would be is something like … 200% crit - 15% toughness crit reduction = 175% effective crit before damage reduction from armor.

I would definitely never suggest anything so oppressive as a way to get to full mitigation. Unfortunately that may mean a cap is necessary. Even still, if the numbers are appropriate, all it might mean is that if someone has Ferocity as main stat fighting someone with Toughness as a main stat, it would just get back down to 150% critical damage by the end of it. Again, I don't have a way to back this up beyond my hypothetical, but it could be a good way to support toughness. At the end of the day it doesn't even need to be massive, even 15% crit damage reduction as an active part of your stat selection can be a good boost.

[Also, back to the Condition Damage reduction Toughness could give, that would be very small per 100 Toughness... like 1.2% or some number, but still significant in the face of condi pressure. I don't have a way to gauge the right number I'm just trying to communicate the concept]

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@mindcircus.1506 said:after all the math and work they did to put ferocity in the game? Not likely.Your idea here suggests that you don't want to address certain dominant specs so much as you want a significant shift towards a playstyle more aligned with your preference.

how exactly do I suggest that? I play all types of builds.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:snips

yeah word, I like the idea.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:snips

yeah word, I like the idea.

:smiley: I try to do dope things w/ mechanics!

[Cyninja.2954]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:So your solution to power creep is: more power creep?

Not only are you increasing baseline crit damage by 50% from 150% to 200% (which is literally 750 free ferocity given 15 ferocity = 1% crit damage. At 961 ferocity on berserker gear, you are basically giving almost the entire ferocity amount for free). You then decide to remove 1 stat which now would simply get replaced by a new damage stat.

So power builds would be running Power, Precision and Condition damage (granted, not yet available in this constelation, only as precision main). Condition builds would simply keep running Viper, only now with more crit damage.

Didn't think that one through did we now?

cleanses. also since ppl no longer have to build for ferocity they can put it in defensive stats which equals more damage reduction, so we're realistically looking at a lot less damage done overall.

That's not how builds in this game work, ever. The meta is maximum damage for damage builds. It always has been.

As far as pvp and wvw, all your idea does is make any build without condition removal unviable since conditions will be guaranteed.

Your thread title suggests you want to fix powercreep. I fail to see how handing out 750 free stat points achieves this.

Your approach is at the very core flawed. You assuming player behavior in only 1 direction (reduce damage stts required and free up place for a defensive stat) without:

• looking at the math behind the change
• factoring in past player behavior
• considering the core game mechanics (nothing about this suggestion changes that maximum damage will remain meta for glassy builds)

As such your sugestion might work IF every player did exactly as you assumed (absolutely unlikely) and falls flat in any other scenario.

[Queen.5837]

I think nerfing the damage on the one-shotting skills and tuning down some of the modifiers will be more than enough to keep one-shot builds in place. Removing ferocity is unnecessary and it doesn't fix powercreep anyways.

[Infusion.7149]

The amount of work to rebuild all armor/weapon/trinket items would be immense for devs. If they acted on "just an idea" posts they would lose a lot of manhours on things that just aren't going to ROI whatsoever.

This would make condi builds much stronger as well as builds not using ferocity currently

You haven't shown any math ; most one shot builds rely on stacked % damage modifiers and not so much on ferocity

[Westenev.5289]

@Pifil.5193 said:Seriously, if you do this you just gave every hybrid and condi build a significant damage boost. And if you're not building in ferocity then where are you going to put your stats? Terrible idea, I think.

+Power, +Condi Damage, +Precision, +Expertiese, I guess

Oh wait... that's vipers!

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

I think people need to understand the power creep which came with HoT will never be removed because devs built all around it(e.g enrage timer in raids) this also include cc not only dps . PoF came then with new elite specs to counter the worst of it in pvp and wvw but their utilities were also too powerful and will be toned down in the next balancing patch. They can only change details at this point.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Cyninja.2954 said:snips

have you noticed that tacking on 1k condi damage doesn't do much to a lot of condi based skills? ofc a lot of skills would have to be reworked, like I stated in the very first sentence. did you even read the op or just the thread title?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"Infusion.7149" said:

1. The amount of work to rebuild all armor/weapon/trinket items would be immense for devs. If they acted on "just an idea" posts they would lose a lot of manhours on things that just aren't going to ROI whatsoever.
2. This would make condi builds much stronger as well as builds not using ferocity currently
3. You haven't shown any math ; most one shot builds rely on stacked % damage modifiers and not so much on ferocity

i'm not suggesting they actually do this, jesus. its just an abstract idea. should I label threads like this as such to not trigger people? seems like it man.so your first response contradicts this one. obviously things would have to be reworked.oh so I owe it to you to spend hours on some random idea I came up with? what lol. if you're saying capping ferocity at 200% wouldn't put a huge damper on one shot builds you're wrong. like I already told someone else, since people don't have to build for ferocity they would likely add a lot more toughness.

[Thorstienn.1642]

Why ferocity? Why not nerf crit chance? The only way to get 100% crit chance should involve every trait, armor piece, fury, all external factors (banners etc), utilities (talking "activate" sigil), plus food and enhancement (so impossible in PvP?). So now you would actually have to build to a "perfect" balance.