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KP system is why raids are dead ( I use fake LI/KP now)


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@Skyronight.6370 said:

So how do we fix this problem? Easy solution, make raids HARDER, yes you heard me, making the raids harder and getting rid of KP system ( deleting boss tokens) will actually fix this issue because to complete a raid you will need skilled players instead of just experienced ones that have been raiding since day 1.

I wish I lived on the same planet as you.

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I understand people who wants KP, but I don't understand why GW2 community is so much into 'you have to complete X content 50 times to know what to do'. WoW raids and m+ dungeons are far harder, and if you killed a boss 5 times you know perfectly what to do... There is no need to kill it 50 times.

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@Naustis.8510 said:I understand people who wants KP, but I don't understand why GW2 community is so much into 'you have to complete X content 50 times to know what to do'. WoW raids and m+ dungeons are far harder, and if you killed a boss 5 times you know perfectly what to do... There is no need to kill it 50 times.

Because players want consistent and smooth runs in the groups that they create. If you did raids, you’d understand where this is coming from. There are some mechanics where a single player can cause the raid to fail.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Naustis.8510 said:I understand people who wants KP, but I don't understand why GW2 community is so much into 'you have to complete X content 50 times to know what to do'. WoW raids and m+ dungeons are far harder, and if you killed a boss 5 times you know perfectly what to do... There is no need to kill it 50 times.

Because players want consistent and smooth runs in the groups that they create. If you did raids, you’d understand where this is coming from. There are some mechanics where a single player can cause the raid to fail.

So it is in WoW. I killed few bosses in GW2, and for most part is targrt dummy simulator with some short fazes of activity.

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@Naustis.8510 said:

@Naustis.8510 said:I understand people who wants KP, but I don't understand why GW2 community is so much into 'you have to complete X content 50 times to know what to do'. WoW raids and m+ dungeons are far harder, and if you killed a boss 5 times you know perfectly what to do... There is no need to kill it 50 times.

Because players want consistent and smooth runs in the groups that they create. If you did raids, you’d understand where this is coming from. There are some mechanics where a single player can cause the raid to fail.

So it is in WoW. I killed few bosses in GW2, and for most part is targrt dummy simulator with some short fazes of activity.

It’s not as dumbed down as you make it for those that are not experienced enough at the bosses. This is evident if you ever pug them or try to bring in pugs to your statics.

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@"Skyronight.6370" said:The reason why raids have a small population and everyone complaining that they are too hard it is because of the flawed KP system and not their difficulty , as someone that can do any role and never/rarely goes down in raids and also get top DPS when I play DPS most of the time, after seeing all the 50 + KP requirements for bosses I started using fake KP /Li because I dont wanna brag but my skill level is higher than the vast majority of people and not getting into groups because I started raiding late is definitely not the way it should be. Now its much easier to find groups and I dont have to worry about getting bad luck with boss tokens and only getting 1 per kill.

This is why raids are dying out because older players leave the game and the new players that come in cannot do raids because they dont have the KP requirements. It has nothing to do with raid difficulty, making the raids as easy as open world content actually still wont fix the KP issue. Because the less skilled players will still want a decent amount of KP from the new players because they would not want to wipe in the raid even if its easy mode.

So how do we fix this problem? Easy solution, make raids HARDER, yes you heard me, making the raids harder and getting rid of KP system ( deleting boss tokens) will actually fix this issue because to complete a raid you will need skilled players instead of just experienced ones that have been raiding since day 1.

Raids will see a much higher interest because now the new players that are talented but never raided before will actually be desired in groups once the mechanics get harder and you will actually need fast reaction time and knowledge of your class to not die in raids.

The real problem is literally the fact that raids are too easy but the KP requirements for them is way too high. After killing dhuum 4 times I was able to do kiter/tank role better than people with 100 dhuum tokens, so why I shouldnt be able to get into a group when the content is faceroll but they ask me to kill the boss 50 times.

Its funny to see all these people here crying that raids are locked behind a " barrier" and adding easy mode will fix this issue, it wont fix the problem, if anything it will be worse because this is when all the people with terrible builds and low skill level will start infesting the raids and you wont even be able to complete the easy mode.

We need more good players in raids not more bad players, adding easy mode will make the problem worse. Get rid of the real barrier that is the KP system and increase raid difficulty. This is going to be the best change that raids have seen.

Your initial assessment is correct, that kp is killing raiding's community or even ability to build community but your solution isn't.

First, mechanic density was too high on the raid i did. Even wow lets you finish a raid with a bad player or two, it's too easy for one player to wipe a group and it doesn't feel like recovery from mistakes is possible. Not only that, mechanics also don't always pop out at you.

Second, gear is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. The best gear is ascended gear because of selectable stats (most support and healing builds need conc, a rare stat) getting ascended gear is a process that is unnatural to raiding: it's tedious chores farming for months on any sort of decent schedule. You'll hate the game if that's all you did. Fractals don't drop selectable stat gear frequently enough to be a sane and natural way to transition to raiding.

Third, roles aren't obvious and there's too many of them. There's nothing that actually tells you "hey you need 100% boon uptime to be useful, this is how you achieve it).

The remedies below i suggest for normal mode only.

The best remedy for mechanics would be fewer mechanics in harder raids (apparently my guild loves practicing on one of the worst ones) but make them more punishing for messing up, also allow the raid to still complete with 1-2 players dying. On this note, anet could make fulfilling a mechanic more fun. In WoW some mechanics actually feel good to do right, in salvation pass they feel like random crap thrown at you.

For gearing & roles, normal mode raids become like spvp: you can just log into a character and do any build you choose. The ui also has a role guide. This allows players to fill any role they have a character for. This allows the community to have a much larger pool of capable characters to choose from, as opposed to maybe 1 character per player, though i would argue most players don't even research very well before trying roles and fail miserably (based on underperforming members in groups i've done)

And for the love of all that is holy bring mesmer concentration requirements and rotation complexity for boon support more in line with alacrigade. This is for all levels. I just think it's ridiculous alacrigade only have to press 1 button with less concentration to maintain a boon for 10 players whereas the mesmer has to do so many things to just maintain 2 for 5 players (so functionally if you count boons per player, the roles are equal, but one is definitely way easier and has a lower gear requirement).

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Skyronight.6370" said:The reason why raids have a small population and everyone complaining that they are too hard it is because of the flawed KP system and not their difficulty , as someone that can do any role and never/rarely goes down in raids and also get top DPS when I play DPS most of the time, after seeing all the 50 + KP requirements for bosses I started using fake KP /Li because I dont wanna brag but my skill level is higher than the vast majority of people and not getting into groups because I started raiding late is definitely not the way it should be. Now its much easier to find groups and I dont have to worry about getting bad luck with boss tokens and only getting 1 per kill.

This is why raids are dying out because older players leave the game and the new players that come in cannot do raids because they dont have the KP requirements. It has nothing to do with raid difficulty, making the raids as easy as open world content actually still wont fix the KP issue. Because the less skilled players will still want a decent amount of KP from the new players because they would not want to wipe in the raid even if its easy mode.

So how do we fix this problem? Easy solution, make raids HARDER, yes you heard me, making the raids harder and getting rid of KP system ( deleting boss tokens) will actually fix this issue because to complete a raid you will need skilled players instead of just experienced ones that have been raiding since day 1.

Raids will see a much higher interest because now the new players that are talented but never raided before will actually be desired in groups once the mechanics get harder and you will actually need fast reaction time and knowledge of your class to not die in raids.

The real problem is literally the fact that raids are too easy but the KP requirements for them is way too high. After killing dhuum 4 times I was able to do kiter/tank role better than people with 100 dhuum tokens, so why I shouldnt be able to get into a group when the content is faceroll but they ask me to kill the boss 50 times.

Its funny to see all these people here crying that raids are locked behind a " barrier" and adding easy mode will fix this issue, it wont fix the problem, if anything it will be worse because this is when all the people with terrible builds and low skill level will start infesting the raids and you wont even be able to complete the easy mode.

We need more good players in raids not more bad players, adding easy mode will make the problem worse. Get rid of the real barrier that is the KP system and increase raid difficulty. This is going to be the best change that raids have seen.

Your initial assessment is correct, that kp is killing raiding's community or even ability to build community but your solution isn't.

First, mechanic density was too high on the raid i did. Even wow lets you finish a raid with a bad player or two, it's too easy for one player to wipe a group and it doesn't feel like recovery from mistakes is possible. Not only that, mechanics also don't always pop out at you.

Second, gear is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. The best gear is ascended gear because of selectable stats (most support and healing builds need conc, a rare stat) getting ascended gear is a process that is unnatural to raiding: it's tedious chores farming for months on any sort of decent schedule. You'll hate the game if that's all you did. Fractals don't drop selectable stat gear frequently enough to be a sane and natural way to transition to raiding.

Third, roles aren't obvious and there's too many of them. There's nothing that actually tells you "hey you need 100% boon uptime to be useful, this is how you achieve it).

The remedies below i suggest for normal mode only.

The best remedy for mechanics would be fewer mechanics in harder raids (apparently my guild loves practicing on one of the worst ones) but make them more punishing for messing up, also allow the raid to still complete with 1-2 players dying. On this note, anet could make fulfilling a mechanic more fun. In WoW some mechanics actually feel good to do right, in salvation pass they feel like random kitten thrown at you.

For gearing & roles, normal mode raids become like spvp: you can just log into a character and do any build you choose. The ui also has a role guide. This allows players to fill any role they have a character for. This allows the community to have a much larger pool of capable characters to choose from, as opposed to maybe 1 character per player, though i would argue most players don't even research very well before trying roles and fail miserably (based on underperforming members in groups i've done)

And for the love of all that is holy bring mesmer concentration requirements and rotation complexity for boon support more in line with alacrigade. This is for all levels. I just think it's ridiculous alacrigade only have to press 1 button with less concentration to maintain a boon for 10 players whereas the mesmer has to do so many things to just maintain 2 for 5 players (so functionally if you count boons per player, the roles are equal, but one is definitely way easier and has a lower gear requirement).

Gearing in gw2 is 10 times easier than gearing in WoW, no offense but if it takes you months to get diviner stats you are doing something horribly wrong, You can get a full set of selectable stats in 1 week of pvp. The issue as I said is the fact that raids are too easy not too hard but the KP requirement for them dosent match the difficulty. Unless the player has severe brain damage they should be able to complete any raid/ any boss after 3 succeful kills but gw2 community asks foir 50 KP.

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@Skyronight.6370 said:Gearing in gw2 is 10 times easier than gearing in WoW, no offense but if it takes you months to get diviner stats you are doing something horribly wrong, You can get a full set of selectable stats in 1 week of pvp. The issue as I said is the fact that raids are too easy not too hard but the KP requirement for them dosent match the difficulty. Unless the player has severe brain damage they should be able to complete any raid/ any boss after 3 succeful kills but gw2 community asks foir 50 KP.

Why would a pve player want to pvp for gear so they can pve? You're just proving my point about tedium outside raiding.

But let's assume i don't care and evaluate your other claim, that it takes a week.

It's 2110 pips for just the armor, assuming we start on a fresh season. we're not talking weapons or trinkets yet, so this is less than half the set. Dividing by 7.5, assuming a 50% win rate, yields 282 matches. Most games take 10 minutes. Let's just say 7. That's 32 hours, not including queue times, which could easily put you close to 40. I actually like enjoying the game and that's way too much pvp in a week, let alone in game. You need 14-15 total gear pieces depending on spec. This is less than half the set and if you actually keep going in the same season, the ascended shards per pip goes so it's even longer getting the other pieces. And this is an optimistic estimate, i didn't do prematch wait times and normally i think my matches run me around 10 minutes.

Now let's talk WoW. You can do 1 mythic+ a week and get something ilvl appropriate for only 30 mins to an 1 hours worth of time, you may even be someone who gets the drops from the dungeon itself, giving you even more gear per time spent. For every tier there's a world boss who drops normal ilvl gear once per week, now we're at 2-3 pieces for still around 35-65 mins of play. It is harder and does take longer in Gw2. Not to mention as you've pointed out yourself, it has nothing to do with the content you actually want to do. At least in a M+ dungeon i get practice with a lot of different types of mechanics.

Edit how is a game that's supposed to be designed for filthy casuals get so many elitists who like to troll noobs with bs? You're not the first person here to grossly understate gearing.

Edit 2: numbers were off on set, adjusted them

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Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

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@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others. You can obtain 25G an hours from some of the farms such as Dragonfall. You also technically don't need ascended armor to raid as the ~2% DPS increase won't have much bearing.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others.

Winterberries are only preferable because they infini respawn. Pretty sure i was jumped when i would gather them during season 3 too. Didn't actually farm them for ascended then. I doubt the route is that much easier, i could try it, but it's maybe 2 pieces of gear of the 14-15? I'm almost done with trinkets now. Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others.

Winterberries are only preferable because they infini respawn. Pretty sure i was jumped when i would gather them during season 3 too. Didn't actually farm them for ascended then. I doubt the route is that much easier, i could try it, but it's maybe 2 pieces of gear of the 14-15? I'm almost done with trinkets now. Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

There's no time-gating if you purchase the materials.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others.

Winterberries are only preferable because they infini respawn. Pretty sure i was jumped when i would gather them during season 3 too. Didn't actually farm them for ascended then. I doubt the route is that much easier, i could try it, but it's maybe 2 pieces of gear of the 14-15? I'm almost done with trinkets now. Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

There's no time-gating if you purchase the materials.

You're assuming i have the gold for that.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others.

Winterberries are only preferable because they infini respawn. Pretty sure i was jumped when i would gather them during season 3 too. Didn't actually farm them for ascended then. I doubt the route is that much easier, i could try it, but it's maybe 2 pieces of gear of the 14-15? I'm almost done with trinkets now. Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

There's no time-gating if you purchase the materials.

You're assuming i have the gold for that.

That's why you farm it...

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others.

Winterberries are only preferable because they infini respawn. Pretty sure i was jumped when i would gather them during season 3 too. Didn't actually farm them for ascended then. I doubt the route is that much easier, i could try it, but it's maybe 2 pieces of gear of the 14-15? I'm almost done with trinkets now. Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

There's no time-gating if you purchase the materials.

You're assuming i have the gold for that.

That's why you farm it...

And that's why i'm not wrong in pointing out all the tedium and time investment in getting into raids in the first place. If OP and Anet really want more player participation, they need to lower the barrier to entry which is why i came up with a suggestion that was more about player skill than farming.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except you don't need stat selectable armor as you can just craft what you want. Ascended trinkets are fairly painless to obtain from the Living World maps. Back pieces are pretty much thrown at you with every episode. Weapons are painless through Caladbog and the elite specialization collections although you can craft them too.

Define "painless" jade shard runs on a single char tend to take 20-30 mins even with optimal route, usually because of adds. And it's alot of route farming you have to do for a single item.

And if you craft the armor, you have to farm the mats and/or gold for it. I'm consistently farming branded masses and think it took me like at least a month for the 400 i have now? And the items are time gated when crafting. Crafting the mats for the sword is at least 9 days.

Winterberries but of course immediately go for one of the more annoying ones while ignoring the others.

Winterberries are only preferable because they infini respawn. Pretty sure i was jumped when i would gather them during season 3 too. Didn't actually farm them for ascended then. I doubt the route is that much easier, i could try it, but it's maybe 2 pieces of gear of the 14-15? I'm almost done with trinkets now. Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

There's no time-gating if you purchase the materials.

You're assuming i have the gold for that.

That's why you farm it...

And that's why i'm not wrong in pointing out all the tedium and time investment in getting into raids in the first place. If OP and Anet really want more player participation, they need to lower the barrier to entry which is why i came up with a suggestion that was more about player skill than farming.

And yet you ignore the same thing when it comes to WoW raids. There's grind in WoW for the gear yet you criticize GW2 for it. There are time-gates in WoW and yet you criticize GW2 for it. And FYI, people fail more often because of messing up mechanics than because of DPS.

@Firebeard.1746 said:Now let's talk WoW. You can do 1 mythic+ a week and get something ilvl appropriate for only 30 mins to an 1 hours worth of time,.For every tier there's a world boss who drops normal ilvl gear once per week, now we're at 2-3 pieces for still around 35-65 mins of play.

And about GW2 timegates

@Firebeard.1746 said:Of course you ignore time gating on crafting the other pieces.

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Chrono needs 100% Bd for complete up time on boons, self sustaining anyway. The core roles require non trivial amounts of conc which is rare on exotics. Heck if anet flooded the economy with selectable stat exotics it would work almost as well as my suggestion except there would still be less flexibility.

Also 2% is an understatement.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:Chrono needs 100% Bd for complete up time on boons, self sustaining anyway. The core roles require non trivial amounts of conc which is rare on exotics. Heck if anet flooded the economy with selectable stat exotics it would work almost as well as my suggestion except there would still be less flexibility.

The meta chrono build only use 3 pieces of ascended diviners gear. Trying to find one exception doesn't negate what I said.

Also 2% is an understatement.

It's not.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:Chrono needs 100% Bd for complete up time on boons, self sustaining anyway. The core roles require non trivial amounts of conc which is rare on exotics. Heck if anet flooded the economy with selectable stat exotics it would work almost as well as my suggestion except there would still be less flexibility.

Also 2% is an understatement.

The meta chrono build doesn't use 100% boon duration since like half a year now. The non-tank version uses exactly 4 divinier pieces (Helm, Chest, Leggings, Backpack), the rest is berserker.

Around 2% for the armor is correct. Most stats are found on weapons and trinkets. Armor is a small part of it. Just get weapons and trinkets. Play raids and buy the armor for shards.

Also WoW gear is extremly unreliable with those rnd boni... Comparing this to GW2 and complaining about timegates is just a joke.

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The fun part is he still takes getting one of the hardest stats in the game as granted for an entry barrier for raids. Dude, wake the f... up! You usually don't start raiding as support chrono, tank or others from the most important roles.I've said before that it is much easier to start with an easy dps or a pure heal class. In both cases you can start with easily obtainable stats namely zerker & magi's. And both are just needed in exotics.The reason for that: If you start raiding with a guild/community they put you on safe/easy-to-play positions first because they know you aren't an expert yet. Nobody on earth would take it as a given that you can handle the harder or more important support roles or playing special mechanics in your first raid attempts. Not even in a pug a sane person would ask you for that.Another thing is a new player usually doesn't start raiding after hitting level 80. The overwhelming majority of the player base is doing completely different things. Raids are the most challenging endgame content not endgame content where you step in after getting in first touch with the game which in this case is being level 80. Of course, if you just come to GW2 for raiding - which is not recommended because the focus in this game is - who would have thought that? - not raiding you'll have a "not-so-easy" time to gear up a char perfectly from the get go but as I mentioned before: This is also not needed to start raiding!Let's face it the usual raider in this game is a veteran who most likely spend years before in this game and therefore has access to a lot of sources of armor & weapon pieces, several chars ready for a quick winterberry farm (for example), gold and/or mats + 100% map exploration with at least 1 char, mounts for fast travelling and most likely portal tomes for the LS maps.Last but not least because people always tend to forget it: Anet never wanted raids to be puggable content in the first place. They were advertised for "organized groups" which means guilds, friends and other pre-assembled groups. In such it is easier to start and with the progress you make the acquisition of gear is negligible.

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