Can We Have A Mastery To Use Skills While Mounted In The Next Update?

[SeikeNz.3526]

im not talking about the "1" skill to get dismounted, give us a mastery to level up our mounts and fight while mounted if we want to, i don't see how that will destroy the balance of the game, just imagine a raptor doing a tail swip around and killing monsters, if he dies you still get knocked down and fight unmounted

[Teratus.2859]

I'd like to see more mount abilities too, no reason why each mount can't do a few different dismount attacks that could maybe be co-ordinated with other players for combos or something.Examples:5 Raptors do a tail spin dismount, creates a small whirlwind that lasts for 5 seconds and keeps pulling enemies into it..5 springers do their dismount in the same location and it creates a small earthquake that imobalizes for a few seconds.Raptor could get a pin down dismount attack, like the skyscale player dismounts first and Raptor pounces on enemies a certain distance ahead, knocking them down and holding them down for a couple of seconds before biting them and vanishing.Skimmer could get a Horizontal spin dismount, instead of spinning vertically and healing allies the player would dismount firs and the skimmer would shoot off ahead like a ninja star spinning horizontally blowing air and whipping foes with it's tail sending them flying like a bowling ball striking a bunch of pins.Springer could get a drop kick launching foes in front of it flying backwards.Sand Jackel, Player dismounts the jackel, then the Jackel teleports ahead a short distance and explodes creating a short sandstorm Aoe and blinding all foes in the area.Skyscale, Player dismounts Skyscale, Skyscale then jumps ahead a short distance and launches istelf up in the air doing a large spin dragging enemies up in the air with it, if this is triggered inside another Skyscales Fire field the jumping Skyscale creates a fire votex as it ascends dealing extra damage.

Likewise, I want to see more bundle/pickup items that allow me to attack from the back of my mount.I really enjoy picking up dragonblood spears and those fire orbs in Dragonfall and using them while flying around on the Skyscale.Likewise the glider skills in Bloodstone Fen were awesome.. why can't I use them anywhere I like?

Let me use my mount skill 5 to equip a bundle of 20 spears or bombs to throw anywhere in the world, that would be an awesome thing to have ^^

[Aaralyna.3104]

This will break the game. Fighting mounted (especially when ranged or with minions/pets/clones, and even more so on a flying mount like a skyscale) will make players never get off their mounts. This means that a chunk of gw combat system will be ignored (combo fields). Next to that, it will give a group of players an unfair advantage over new players and players without an expansion (yes those exist). We can already see how uninviting WvW became for that group when the warclaw became a thing, and how that same group cannot keep up with events as they are not as fast as mounted players and ofcourse they cannot climb that much either. So you will have to stick with the 1 skills of mounts (be it raptor swipe or a skyscale coming to your aid). They did nerf this damage already as well because it was too op. And finally, what is so wrong with ground combat where you actively have to dodge, move around, use combo fields etc...

They indeed added some flavor in Dragonfall but they kept it there, as should imo (and those mobs can still take you out of the sky at least).

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Aaralyna.3104 said:This will break the game. Fighting mounted (especially when ranged or with minions/pets/clones, and even more so on a flying mount like a skyscale) will make players never get off their mounts. This means that a chunk of gw combat system will be ignored (combo fields). Next to that, it will give a group of players an unfair advantage over new players and players without an expansion (yes those exist). We can already see how uninviting WvW became for that group when the warclaw became a thing, and how that same group cannot keep up with events as they are not as fast as mounted players and ofcourse they cannot climb that much either. So you will have to stick with the 1 skills of mounts (be it raptor swipe or a skyscale coming to your aid). They did nerf this damage already as well because it was too op. And finally, what is so wrong with ground combat where you actively have to dodge, move around, use combo fields etc...

They indeed added some flavor in Dragonfall but they kept it there, as should imo (and those mobs can still take you out of the sky at least).

i dont see how this will break the game, i will not use my char skills while mounted, i will just use the mount skills while mounted, this will be like a engi tool kit, so i don't have the same power as a unmounted character it's just for the fun and different skills, since after skyscale anyone use others mounts? so every mount will have a different utility in combat and all of them will be useful, also the idea is if the mount die you can't mount it again unless you are out of combat

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Teratus.2859 said:I'd like to see more mount abilities too, no reason why each mount can't do a few different dismount attacks that could maybe be co-ordinated with other players for combos or something.Examples:5 Raptors do a tail spin dismount, creates a small whirlwind that lasts for 5 seconds and keeps pulling enemies into it..5 springers do their dismount in the same location and it creates a small earthquake that imobalizes for a few seconds.Raptor could get a pin down dismount attack, like the skyscale player dismounts first and Raptor pounces on enemies a certain distance ahead, knocking them down and holding them down for a couple of seconds before biting them and vanishing.Skimmer could get a Horizontal spin dismount, instead of spinning vertically and healing allies the player would dismount firs and the skimmer would shoot off ahead like a ninja star spinning horizontally blowing air and whipping foes with it's tail sending them flying like a bowling ball striking a bunch of pins.Springer could get a drop kick launching foes in front of it flying backwards.Sand Jackel, Player dismounts the jackel, then the Jackel teleports ahead a short distance and explodes creating a short sandstorm Aoe and blinding all foes in the area.Skyscale, Player dismounts Skyscale, Skyscale then jumps ahead a short distance and launches istelf up in the air doing a large spin dragging enemies up in the air with it, if this is triggered inside another Skyscales Fire field the jumping Skyscale creates a fire votex as it ascends dealing extra damage.

Likewise, I want to see more bundle/pickup items that allow me to attack from the back of my mount.I really enjoy picking up dragonblood spears and those fire orbs in Dragonfall and using them while flying around on the Skyscale.Likewise the glider skills in Bloodstone Fen were awesome.. why can't I use them anywhere I like?

Let me use my mount skill 5 to equip a bundle of 20 spears or bombs to throw anywhere in the world, that would be an awesome thing to have ^^

that's what im thinking but without the part of being dismounted, mounts die very quickly so i don't see why is needed to dismount just because i used some skills

[Menadena.7482]

Oh yes, that is a 'simple' change they can just roll in before Tuesday.

Wanders off grumbling something about how to spot a person who is not a programmer.

[flog.3485]

Fighting with mounts is a poor idea imo but it would awesome if your mounts could gain lvls and unlock character bound (purchasing even like in GW) abilities that works in tandem with account bound abilities.

Who knows, maybe that is what the Icebrood saga will do with the norn shape shifting lore abilities.

[starlinvf.1358]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Aaralyna.3104 said:This will break the game. Fighting mounted (especially when ranged or with minions/pets/clones, and even more so on a flying mount like a skyscale) will make players never get off their mounts. This means that a chunk of gw combat system will be ignored (combo fields). Next to that, it will give a group of players an unfair advantage over new players and players without an expansion (yes those exist). We can already see how uninviting WvW became for that group when the warclaw became a thing, and how that same group cannot keep up with events as they are not as fast as mounted players and ofcourse they cannot climb that much either. So you will have to stick with the 1 skills of mounts (be it raptor swipe or a skyscale coming to your aid). They did nerf this damage already as well because it was too op. And finally, what is so wrong with ground combat where you actively have to dodge, move around, use combo fields etc...

They indeed added some flavor in Dragonfall but they kept it there, as should imo (and those mobs can still take you out of the sky at least).

i dont see how this will break the game, i will not use my char skills while mounted, i will just use the mount skills while mounted, this will be like a engi tool kit, so i don't have the same power as a unmounted character it's just for the fun and different skills, since after skyscale anyone use others mounts? so every mount will have a different utility in combat and all of them will be useful, also the idea is if the mount die you can't mount it again unless you are out of combat

Thats failing to acknowledge how things always play out around here. Alt skills have historically existed on a razors edge between the Defacto Best in Slot choice, and utter worthlessness. If mounted combat is even remotely practical, players will favor it over their own skills. This is because the mount is bar-none the strongest defensive option players have in the game..... strong evades, is effectively a second life bar that eats a downed state in your place (and the stun can be bypassed by a stun break), best mobility by design, and the flying mounts exploit the fact that most non-projectile attacks can't touch them. On the other end of the spectrum, Mounts have terribly low HP (by design) to handle combat, and the fact that their dynamic with aggressive AOE (which is common in the POF maps they're made for) is one of circumnavigation, and not engagement. The entire concept behind Dismount skills is to be a strong opening INTO combat, since the mounts were never meant to be sustainable DURING combat. And as-is, the dismount skills are borderline too strong against CC vulnerable mobs, and ineffective against CC-immune ones.

Mounts are meant to do 3 things..... Map Navigation, Evasion and Pursuit. Once you start dipping into combat, the delicate isolation its managed to retain is immediately lost; and now you have thousands of issues to address in various sequence.

Next, you run into all the same problems we've seen with Gliding combat. Bloodstone Fen is the ONLY map with access to general use gliding combat skills...... and the optimal strategy in the map is to stay airborne and bomb things to death. The ONLY thing that manages to keep that in check is amount of Anti-Air built into the White mantle. As such, the areas where they aren't found you see players gliding whenever possible to avoid being attacked by ground units. Mounted combat is either going to be too strong (or strong at range) to make up for the fragility of the mounts, or the mounts too fragile to be worth risking the engagement.

If they are to exist at all, I find the existing approach of being Event specific to be capable of avoiding abuse, where as free use effectively can't. It also has the added benefit of allowing for a much wider range of abilities

[Teratus.2859]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I'd like to see more mount abilities too, no reason why each mount can't do a few different dismount attacks that could maybe be co-ordinated with other players for combos or something.Examples:5 Raptors do a tail spin dismount, creates a small whirlwind that lasts for 5 seconds and keeps pulling enemies into it..5 springers do their dismount in the same location and it creates a small earthquake that imobalizes for a few seconds.Raptor could get a pin down dismount attack, like the skyscale player dismounts first and Raptor pounces on enemies a certain distance ahead, knocking them down and holding them down for a couple of seconds before biting them and vanishing.Skimmer could get a Horizontal spin dismount, instead of spinning vertically and healing allies the player would dismount firs and the skimmer would shoot off ahead like a ninja star spinning horizontally blowing air and whipping foes with it's tail sending them flying like a bowling ball striking a bunch of pins.Springer could get a drop kick launching foes in front of it flying backwards.Sand Jackel, Player dismounts the jackel, then the Jackel teleports ahead a short distance and explodes creating a short sandstorm Aoe and blinding all foes in the area.Skyscale, Player dismounts Skyscale, Skyscale then jumps ahead a short distance and launches istelf up in the air doing a large spin dragging enemies up in the air with it, if this is triggered inside another Skyscales Fire field the jumping Skyscale creates a fire votex as it ascends dealing extra damage.

Likewise, I want to see more bundle/pickup items that allow me to attack from the back of my mount.I really enjoy picking up dragonblood spears and those fire orbs in Dragonfall and using them while flying around on the Skyscale.Likewise the glider skills in Bloodstone Fen were awesome.. why can't I use them anywhere I like?

Let me use my mount skill 5 to equip a bundle of 20 spears or bombs to throw anywhere in the world, that would be an awesome thing to have ^^

that's what im thinking but without the part of being dismounted, mounts die very quickly so i don't see why is needed to dismount just because i used some skills

Dismounting would be essential unfotunately as others have said, The best we can hope for as far as combat capability goes with mounts is equipping bundles like the dragonblood spears or something, or by giving mounts low to no damage skills that do CC or effects like imobalize.. throwing a bola from the back of your raptor or something like that.Damaging, combat skills would need to force a dismount, however each mount having access to different kinds of damaging dismount skills with different effects and potentially combo effects is something that could be done and could add a lot more flavour to the game.As I said in my post as an example, combining the two Skyscale dismount skills together to make a fire cyclone :) I'd love to see that in game tbh.This could be balanced by giving additional dismount skills longer cooldowns as well as making that mount unavailable for longer after dismounting

Another option would be to grant short unique buffs to the player after attack dismounting, buff changing depending on mount etc.

[Tzarakiel.7490]

Anet already explained how this would break the game before PoF launched. The reasons they used aren't suddenly going to change for no reason.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Aaralyna.3104 said:This will break the game. Fighting mounted (especially when ranged or with minions/pets/clones, and even more so on a flying mount like a skyscale) will make players never get off their mounts. This means that a chunk of gw combat system will be ignored (combo fields). Next to that, it will give a group of players an unfair advantage over new players and players without an expansion (yes those exist). We can already see how uninviting WvW became for that group when the warclaw became a thing, and how that same group cannot keep up with events as they are not as fast as mounted players and ofcourse they cannot climb that much either. So you will have to stick with the 1 skills of mounts (be it raptor swipe or a skyscale coming to your aid). They did nerf this damage already as well because it was too op. And finally, what is so wrong with ground combat where you actively have to dodge, move around, use combo fields etc...

They indeed added some flavor in Dragonfall but they kept it there, as should imo (and those mobs can still take you out of the sky at least).

i dont see how this will break the game, i will not use my char skills while mounted, i will just use the mount skills while mounted, this will be like a engi tool kit, so i don't have the same power as a unmounted character it's just for the fun and different skills, since after skyscale anyone use others mounts? so every mount will have a different utility in combat and all of them will be useful, also the idea is if the mount die you can't mount it again unless you are out of combat

Thats failing to acknowledge how things always play out around here. Alt skills have historically existed on a razors edge between the Defacto Best in Slot choice, and utter worthlessness. If mounted combat is even remotely practical, players will favor it over their own skills. This is because the mount is bar-none the strongest defensive option players have in the game..... strong evades, is effectively a second life bar that eats a downed state in your place (and the stun can be bypassed by a stun break), best mobility by design, and the flying mounts exploit the fact that most non-projectile attacks can't touch them. On the other end of the spectrum, Mounts have terribly low HP (by design) to handle combat, and the fact that their dynamic with aggressive AOE (which is common in the POF maps they're made for) is one of circumnavigation, and not engagement. The entire concept behind Dismount skills is to be a strong opening INTO combat, since the mounts were

never

meant to be sustainable DURING combat. And as-is, the dismount skills are borderline too strong against CC vulnerable mobs, and ineffective against CC-immune ones.

Mounts are meant to do 3 things..... Map Navigation, Evasion and Pursuit. Once you start dipping into combat, the delicate isolation its managed to retain is immediately lost; and now you have thousands of issues to address in various sequence.

Next, you run into all the same problems we've seen with Gliding combat. Bloodstone Fen is the ONLY map with access to general use gliding combat skills...... and the optimal strategy in the map is to stay airborne and bomb things to death. The ONLY thing that manages to keep that in check is amount of Anti-Air built into the White mantle. As such, the areas where they aren't found you see players gliding whenever possible to avoid being attacked by ground units. Mounted combat is either going to be too strong (or strong at range) to make up for the fragility of the mounts, or the mounts too fragile to be worth risking the engagement.

If they are to exist at all, I find the existing approach of being Event specific to be capable of avoiding abuse, where as free use effectively can't. It also has the added benefit of allowing for a much wider range of abilities

there's always someone to be anti

mounts too strong? lol, they die in 2-3 hits and some of the enemies just unmount you at the first hit, try to stay near a enemy and see how that goes, mount dmg is just a bit higher than a unmounted char, if you are talking about trash mobs they don't even worth the time they are there just to annoy people, i don't see the problem in do 3-5 skills on enemies before i get unmounted or avoid atks if im skilled with itabout skyscale just make ground attacking skills so they can be killed

[Fozzie.5370]

@Menadena.7482 said:Oh yes, that is a 'simple' change they can just roll in before Tuesday.

Wanders off grumbling something about how to spot a person who is not a programmer.

^^ lol just.

[Dayra.7405]

Cool Ranger-LB Auto-attack while siting unreachable for all mobs on the skyscale in 1500 high ;)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The next update is in a couple of days; I'm pretty sure, unless it was conceived and worked on long ago, it would be impossible to expect it in the next update. Or any of the updates in the near future.

(Not to mention Joel tried it when first working on Mounts, and found it unviable.)

[Tukaram.8256]

The only way mounted fighting would work would be if they did it the way Ultima Online did. You use your regular skills and the mount has no effect on damage given or received - the mount is just a collection of pixels.Mounts being able to fight, or affecting how you are hit, would be a whole expansion's worth of programming... that I hope they never do.