Scared...

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

My thoughts are that if the tweaks make us more fluid and unpredictable, I’m all for it even if it made us less OP in raw damage.

What I don’t like is if the tweak destroyed a play-style and made us more 1 dimensional than before. Like removing the SoS traited 7 seconds shroud.

[Flumek.9043]

Which difficulty level did you set the 4 players AI to ?

[dceptaconroy.7928]

@Flumek.9043 said:Which difficulty level did you set the 4 players AI to ?

Noice one

[Etterwyn.5263]

@"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?

Good builds are like good farming spots. If you make them public they get nerfed. If you tell a friend, that friend will tell a friend, and so forth until someone makes it public and it gets nerfed. Humans can't keep secrets.

If I ever stumble across something really awesome and it's not an exploit, I'm not sharing it with a soul.

[Dawdler.8521]

Necro OP> @"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:

FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?"If I catch them right" = your enemies are oblivious and brought the wrong builds or they have no idea how to fight a scourge.

Yesterday I also killed 3 people from the same guild with a core engineer in about 10 seconds. While they scattered like headless chickens from their sentry point two died to burning and the third put up a couple more seconds fight.

And thats on the same build that usually roflstomp scourges (main threat being condi transfer, but that is predictable) yet has fallen to really good core necros keeping up their shroud.

No, the scourge isnt going to be "tweaked" because of its roaming capabilities. It has barely been "tweaked" for disrupting entire WvW and remain the completely dominant zerg class that Anet are trying to twist themselves into pretzels to balance the game around.

But hey if you wanna stop playing it out of nerf fear, I wont stop you. I recommend minstrel renegade instead. I hear they are lovely. Can kill anything. Promise. Bring brightly colored outfit.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

yeah, don't share it. Judging by Anet's methods if it's not mesmer (and some other hit and run bullshit professions) it will get nerfed next patch once it's spread.

[XECOR.2814]

Meh, it will be something like curses 233, blood magic 333 and scg 322. Or could be soul reaping 233 instead of curses.

[Helly.2597]

All this misguided fear about nerfs. Anet certainly isn't balancing around small scale roaming in WvW. And builds are like encryption, the only way you know it's good is by telling as many people as possible and seeing if anyone can break it/improve it.

Example would be after anet buffed deathly chill. Clearly 3 bleeds per chill application was too strong and needed a Nerf. And yet it wasn't nerfed until after PoF launched. Those builds weren't secret and yet they survived a long time.

I've roamed necro a long time. And I don't think I've ever seen a nerf that was directed related to any necro roaming build. Closest would be the signet changes destroying boon corrupt hybrid, but those changes were supposedly to make signets more useful in pve (laughable).

And as was mentioned above, any build (that isn't a hard support) can pull off 1v3 in WvW. In fact necro is exceptional at this due to it's high amounts of aoe and area denial. So I wouldn't suddenly think this build deserves a Nerf.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Haha great responses. No I will never stop playing necro, play nothing else. My post was sarcasm to up coming balance, seems we always get a small buff on one thing then nerfs to 4. Add that to the buffs made upon other classes, seems we take hits each time. Sometimes it takes awhile to re-adjust, a matter of studying and theorizing. I never liked playing scrounge, just happened upon a good build and developed a playstyle for it. Usually the multi takedowns are when I am able to bunch them together with a pull or maneuvering, then emptying on them. After that need to back dodge out and cleve the low health till all are down. Barring any rezzes u can just wail them to death. Favorite is reg necro, and yes mes and thief seem best to handle with reg necro.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Only problem I have is that anets “buffs” to certain skills or traits are just nerfs in disguise.

I like reworks...but when nothing fundamentally changes as a result, then it’s a massive let down. On top of it, some skills that are actually in a good spot get caught in the crossfire and end up being worse than what they were before.

The antitoxin nerf is the first sign of anet actually caring for game balance, keeping its effect still in tact for solo play, and not just killing the rune and making it useless like the other 60% of the rune graveyard.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@Helly.2597 said:All this misguided fear about nerfs. Anet certainly isn't balancing around small scale roaming in WvW. And builds are like encryption, the only way you know it's good is by telling as many people as possible and seeing if anyone can break it/improve it.

Example would be after anet buffed deathly chill. Clearly 3 bleeds per chill application was too strong and needed a Nerf. And yet it wasn't nerfed until after PoF launched. Those builds weren't secret and yet they survived a long time.

I've roamed necro a long time. And I don't think I've ever seen a nerf that was directed related to any necro roaming build. Closest would be the signet changes destroying boon corrupt hybrid, but those changes were supposedly to make signets more useful in pve (laughable).

And as was mentioned above, any build (that isn't a hard support) can pull off 1v3 in WvW. In fact necro is exceptional at this due to it's high amounts of aoe and area denial. So I wouldn't suddenly think this build deserves a Nerf.

Epidemic got nerfed twice because of Deathly Chill (in combination with the new Expertise stat), since the 50,000 bleed stacks could suddenly be bounced exponentially depending on the number of Necros. They should have just addressed the stupid trait itself from the beginning.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@Helly.2597 said:All this misguided fear about nerfs. Anet certainly isn't balancing around small scale roaming in WvW. And builds are like encryption, the only way you know it's good is by telling as many people as possible and seeing if anyone can break it/improve it.

Example would be after anet buffed deathly chill. Clearly 3 bleeds per chill application was too strong and needed a Nerf. And yet it wasn't nerfed until after PoF launched. Those builds weren't secret and yet they survived a long time.

I've roamed necro a long time. And I don't think I've ever seen a nerf that was directed related to any necro roaming build. Closest would be the signet changes destroying boon corrupt hybrid, but those changes were supposedly to make signets more useful in pve (laughable).

And as was mentioned above, any build (that isn't a hard support) can pull off 1v3 in WvW. In fact necro is exceptional at this due to it's high amounts of aoe and area denial. So I wouldn't suddenly think this build deserves a Nerf.

Epidemic got nerfed

twice

because of Deathly Chill (in combination with the new Expertise stat), since the 50,000 bleed stacks could suddenly be bounced exponentially depending on the number of Necros. They should have just addressed the stupid trait itself from the beginning.

hmmm this sounds incorrect

Deathly chill got nerfed in the patch that culled condi builds from being instant melting making power builds almost irrelevant.Not to mention deathly chill was never strong in the first place, it required several exploits to be considered viable in the community and hinged on one exploit after another once all the exploits got fixed the true effectiveness of the trait became obvious. Around the same time anet buffed power reaper a good bit shortly after.

Epidemic got fixed the first time because of how it worked in wvw i dont remember the reason but something about how the instant condition spread was1: not easily countable2: causing some back end stress on the servers

Epidemic got nerfed the 2nd time because of how players started to stack and use it. Because necromancer was considered underpowered this was the only exception in which the community of necros saw it viable via epi bouncing. Mean while every other profession main saw this as op and unfair because people dont like it when necromancer gets something that brings them close to being borderline top meta viable. Anet also didnt like this because all it does is pigeon toe players into taking more necros instead of other professions and not everyone likes or plays necro. So anet nerfed epi so that it was still usable for its main goal spreading conditions but not heavily abusable by multi bouncing

[Teratus.2859]

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?

Good builds are like good farming spots. If you make them public they get nerfed. If you tell a friend, that friend will tell a friend, and so forth until someone makes it public and it gets nerfed. Humans can't keep secrets.

If I ever stumble across something really awesome and it's not an exploit, I'm not sharing it with a soul.

This!

Biggest thing to note when it comes to nerfs is that they often hit meta builds and really common ones used by a lot of people.This is one of the main reasons I can't stand meta builds in general and refuse to use them.I prefer to make my own builds, yes I sometimes do get hit by some changes but rarely is it ever devastating to my build and forcing me to change my playstyle.That's only happened a couple of times during the last 7 years.When you find a good build that works really well for you, keep it to yourself as Etterwyn said, less chance of it getting screwed over that way.

[XECOR.2814]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?

Good builds are like good farming spots. If you make them public they get nerfed. If you tell a friend, that friend will tell a friend, and so forth until someone makes it public and it gets nerfed. Humans can't keep secrets.

If I ever stumble across something really awesome and it's not an exploit, I'm not sharing it with a soul.

This!

Biggest thing to note when it comes to nerfs is that they often hit meta builds and really common ones used by a lot of people.This is one of the main reasons I can't stand meta builds in general and refuse to use them.I prefer to make my own builds, yes I sometimes do get hit by some changes but rarely is it ever devastating to my build and forcing me to change my playstyle.That's only happened a couple of times during the last 7 years.When you find a good build that works really well for you, keep it to yourself as Etterwyn said, less chance of it getting screwed over that way.

If you play alot, your build will largely replicate the meta build because its the best in slot for the job for a reason.

[Nimon.7840]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@"Helly.2597" said:All this misguided fear about nerfs. Anet certainly isn't balancing around small scale roaming in WvW. And builds are like encryption, the only way you know it's good is by telling as many people as possible and seeing if anyone can break it/improve it.

Example would be after anet buffed deathly chill. Clearly 3 bleeds per chill application was too strong and needed a Nerf. And yet it wasn't nerfed until after PoF launched. Those builds weren't secret and yet they survived a long time.

I've roamed necro a long time. And I don't think I've ever seen a nerf that was directed related to any necro roaming build. Closest would be the signet changes destroying boon corrupt hybrid, but those changes were supposedly to make signets more useful in pve (laughable).

And as was mentioned above, any build (that isn't a hard support) can pull off 1v3 in WvW. In fact necro is exceptional at this due to it's high amounts of aoe and area denial. So I wouldn't suddenly think this build deserves a Nerf.

Epidemic got nerfed

twice

because of Deathly Chill (in combination with the new Expertise stat), since the 50,000 bleed stacks could suddenly be bounced exponentially depending on the number of Necros. They should have just addressed the stupid trait itself from the beginning.

hmmm this sounds incorrect

Deathly chill got nerfed in the patch that culled condi builds from being instant melting making power builds almost irrelevant.Not to mention deathly chill was never strong in the first place, it required several exploits to be considered viable in the community and hinged on one exploit after another once all the exploits got fixed the true effectiveness of the trait became obvious. Around the same time anet buffed power reaper a good bit shortly after.

Epidemic got fixed the first time because of how it worked in wvw i dont remember the reason but something about how the instant condition spread was1: not easily countable2: causing some back end stress on the servers

They changed it because no counterplay available. There was no projectile if I remember correctly.They changed. It into projectile + the "can't affect enemies with resistance" effect

Epidemic got nerfed the 2nd time because of how players started to stack and use it. Because necromancer was considered underpowered this was the only exception in which the community of necros saw it viable via epi bouncing. Mean while every other profession main saw this as op and unfair because people dont like it when necromancer gets something that brings them close to being borderline top meta viable. Anet also didnt like this because all it does is pigeon toe players into taking more necros instead of other professions and not everyone likes or plays necro. So anet nerfed epi so that it was still usable for its main goal spreading conditions but not heavily abusable by multi bouncing

[Teratus.2859]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?

Good builds are like good farming spots. If you make them public they get nerfed. If you tell a friend, that friend will tell a friend, and so forth until someone makes it public and it gets nerfed. Humans can't keep secrets.

If I ever stumble across something really awesome and it's not an exploit, I'm not sharing it with a soul.

This!

Biggest thing to note when it comes to nerfs is that they often hit meta builds and really common ones used by a lot of people.This is one of the main reasons I can't stand meta builds in general and refuse to use them.I prefer to make my own builds, yes I sometimes do get hit by some changes but rarely is it ever devastating to my build and forcing me to change my playstyle.That's only happened a couple of times during the last 7 years.When you find a good build that works really well for you, keep it to yourself as Etterwyn said, less chance of it getting screwed over that way.

If you play alot, your build will largely replicate the meta build because its the best in slot for the job for a reason.

That depends entirely on the build.My main builds rarely replicate meta's because I make them all purpose rather than best possible for specific content.I also have a strong aversion to glass canons, specially melee builds so that alone keeps me outside the meta's alot.I prefer to sacrifice raw DPS for a good chunk of survivability without totally crippling my damage and that's not something meta builds tend to focus on which is good for me.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Necro OP> @"DaVid Darksoul.4985" said:

FINALLY found a scrounge build for roaming. It is so op that I have taken out groups up to four, if I catch them right. Been roaming HoD BL and having a blast. But seems when I find a build I like, Anet "tweaks" it to oblivion. Anyone else have that foreboding sense?"If I catch them right" = your enemies are oblivious and brought the wrong builds or they have no idea how to fight a scourge.

Yesterday I also killed 3 people from the same guild with a core engineer in about 10 seconds. While they scattered like headless chickens from their sentry point two died to burning and the third put up a couple more seconds fight.

And thats on the same build that usually roflstomp scourges (main threat being condi transfer, but that is predictable) yet has fallen to really good core necros keeping up their shroud.

No, the scourge isnt going to be "tweaked" because of its roaming capabilities. It has barely been "tweaked" for disrupting entire WvW and remain the completely dominant zerg class that Anet are trying to twist themselves into pretzels to balance the game around.

But hey if you wanna stop playing it out of nerf fear, I wont stop you. I recommend minstrel renegade instead. I hear they are lovely. Can kill anything. Promise. Bring brightly colored outfit.

I too run a core engi (condi) from time to time, however its very single target and things that stealth like thieves and mesmers are a pain...any tips? Ever since they neutered my old scrapper build years ago, ive been trying to get back into condi engi (thats one of my first mains)

Scourges are fun as they are predictable with their transfers

[ZDragon.3046]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@Helly.2597 said:All this misguided fear about nerfs. Anet certainly isn't balancing around small scale roaming in WvW. And builds are like encryption, the only way you know it's good is by telling as many people as possible and seeing if anyone can break it/improve it.

Example would be after anet buffed deathly chill. Clearly 3 bleeds per chill application was too strong and needed a Nerf. And yet it wasn't nerfed until after PoF launched. Those builds weren't secret and yet they survived a long time.

I've roamed necro a long time. And I don't think I've ever seen a nerf that was directed related to any necro roaming build. Closest would be the signet changes destroying boon corrupt hybrid, but those changes were supposedly to make signets more useful in pve (laughable).

And as was mentioned above, any build (that isn't a hard support) can pull off 1v3 in WvW. In fact necro is exceptional at this due to it's high amounts of aoe and area denial. So I wouldn't suddenly think this build deserves a Nerf.

Epidemic got nerfed

twice

because of Deathly Chill (in combination with the new Expertise stat), since the 50,000 bleed stacks could suddenly be bounced exponentially depending on the number of Necros. They should have just addressed the stupid trait itself from the beginning.

hmmm this sounds incorrect

Deathly chill got nerfed in the patch that culled condi builds from being instant melting making power builds almost irrelevant.Not to mention deathly chill was never strong in the first place, it required several exploits to be considered viable in the community and hinged on one exploit after another once all the exploits got fixed the true effectiveness of the trait became obvious. Around the same time anet buffed power reaper a good bit shortly after.

Epidemic got fixed the first time because of how it worked in wvw i dont remember the reason but something about how the instant condition spread was1: not easily countable2: causing some back end stress on the servers

They changed it because no counterplay available. There was no projectile if I remember correctly.I thought so.. if thats the case this is not a nerf. I agree that if something has very very VERY limited counter-play it should be changed sorry. i dont consider this a true nerf. When other professions have things that have super limited counter-play its only fair they get the same treatment.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Since Roaming is only a way to Rome have you considered Mekkaing or Athensing?

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Sorry was suspended for awhile, me was bad boy. First day back and was greeted by pre-balance notes. Oh My Goodness, if anybody reads these changes as anything but nerfs, I got an impeachment I can sell you. So now since your shade is immobile, it gets dodge and you lose the use of shade skills. They still activate but your target is on you not the shade, so rots a ruck. may be overly pessimistic, let me know what you think.

[Acheron.4731]

@Flumek.9043 said:Which difficulty level did you set the 4 players AI to ?

I thought the fact that he said HoD bl pretty much explained the situation

;) jk ofc

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

@Acheron.4731 said:

@Flumek.9043 said:Which difficulty level did you set the 4 players AI to ?

I thought the fact that he said HoD bl pretty much explained the situation

;) jk ofc

Ya it was pretty funny when it happened. We were linked with BP then and cant remember what sever they were from, think them was blue. They just flipped nec , I ran in before they noticed me I pulled them, hit one with spite sig/scepter 2 + 3/ epi, elite,shade 5, heal 6,shade 4. by that time they were down or close. closed off with focus 5 and axed them nicely to die. Same time frame I was constantly killing a pair of mithril/diamond reds that were roaming the BL, least 4 times till they got me. Was very fun 2 weeks, lately that build hasn't faired as well, but was fun as it lasted. Seems thief and soulbeast are main trouble now, so run reg necro a lot to handle them.