Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Rite of the Great Dwarf: It's time to put it in line with the other skills


Recommended Posts

It's a stunbreak consuming 40 energy with a 1¼ cast time. Back in the days where things we're more slow and aggravating with big meaningful procedures, it made sense. Now? It doesn't hold up as great, very pro active skills are required and it ruins the flow or pace of playing with Jalis, it does not deserve to have such ultra high risk for medium reward. The gameplay is much more fast paced than before and the cast time is an insult to the legend in the terms of today standards.

Suggestions:1. Make the cast time ¾ or even ½ second if generous enough.2. Make energy cost 30.3. Versed in Stone Condition Damage Reduction is baseline to the skill while the new trait provides stability on stunbreak with it's passive RotGD removed.4. Versed in Stone Condition Damage Reduction is baseline to the skill while the new trait provides stability on elite skill with it's passive RotGD removed.5. Add one stack of stability baseline to RotGD.

I am not saying all of these should be added together, maybe 1+2 or 2+3 but those are generally ways the skill could go to be more relevant because as of right now, there is almost no incentive to use it without the proper synergy of SotM + Spirit Boon, nor being Versed in Stone particularly useful unless you build around it which is ineffective overall compared Steadfast Rejuvenate that can mitigate as much depending on the pressure and is overall more useful to all legends rather than just one skill, 3 seconds of Stability on stunbreak would benefit all legends and give people a good opt that makes energy less prone to be wasted by CC chains.

Even Renegade makes better use of Jalis skills than the traitline (Retribution) does to Jalis itself. Something has to be done. Inspiring Reinforcement is 99% of the time a better skill to use compared it for the minor trait, weakness and stability compared a long vulnerable long cast of a skill that is likely to be too late mitigating damage.

In my opinion after playing it so long should be a second no more no less. It's already easy to interrupt with it's big tell, the cost is high and the effect is strong but being twice the time to the comparable Pain Absorption which is similar but for conditions begs for uniformity and some degree of difficulty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm pretty sure there has never in this game been another stunbreak that was ever even close to 1.25 sec cast time unless the cast was protected by a block or evade. This is pretty much the only reason jalis isn't worth using in pvp as it is too susceptible to cc and focus fire. At least cut the cast in half while also giving aegis at the start of the cast, or just make the cast a channeled block like shelter, it is already expensive enough it can't be spammed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@ArthurDent.9538 said:I'm pretty sure there has never in this game been another stunbreak that was ever even close to 1.25 sec cast time unless the cast was protected by a block or evade. This is pretty much the only reason jalis isn't worth using in pvp as it is too susceptible to cc and focus fire. At least cut the cast in half while also giving aegis at the start of the cast, or just make the cast a channeled block like shelter, it is already expensive enough it can't be spammed.

Could also make it knock-back enemies too close, and reflect projectiles as well. Or make it so you heal for each ability your hit with while you cast, kind of like a second wind sort of thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:I'm pretty sure there has never in this game been another stunbreak that was ever even close to 1.25 sec cast time unless the cast was protected by a block or evade. This is pretty much the only reason jalis isn't worth using in pvp as it is too susceptible to cc and focus fire. At least cut the cast in half while also giving aegis at the start of the cast, or just make the cast a channeled block like shelter, it is already expensive enough it can't be spammed.

Could also make it knock-back enemies too close, and reflect projectiles as well. Or make it so you heal for each ability your hit with while you cast, kind of like a second wind sort of thing.

Already possible with Renegade to knock people, hence the "better" synergy that I claim. Also Righteous Rebel pairs better with Steadfast Rejuvenate and Vengeful Hammers.

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Back in the days.. it was awful. Nothing changed

WvW zergs would sometimes use it to push big chokes, that's the best I know of.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Buran.3796 said:...They released Renegade with the breakstun in the healing skill; Revenant skill balance team have been garbage since forever...

Renegade stunbreak is on the daze summon not on the heal skill

@Shao.7236 said:It's a stunbreak consuming 40 energy with a 1¼ cast time. Back in the days where things we're more slow and aggravating with big meaningful procedures, it made sense. Now? It doesn't hold up as great, very pro active skills are required and it ruins the flow or pace of playing with Jalis, it does not deserve to have such ultra high risk for medium reward. The gameplay is much more fast paced than before and the cast time is an insult to the legend in the terms of today standards.

Suggestions:

  1. Make the cast time ½ second.
  2. Make energy cost 30.
  3. Versed in Stone Condition Damage Reduction is baseline to the skill while the new trait provides stability on stunbreak with it's passive RotGD removed.

I am not saying all of these should be added together, maybe 1+2 or 2+3 but those are generally ways the skill could go to be more relevant because as of right now, there is almost no incentive to use it, nor being Versed in Stone particularly useful unless you build around it which is ineffective overall compared Steadfast Rejuvenate that can mitigate as much depending on the pressure and is overall more useful to all legends rather than just one skill, 3 seconds of Stability on stunbreak would benefit all legends and give people a good opt that makes energy less prone to be wasted by CC chains.

Even Renegade makes better use of Jalis skills than the traitline (Retribution) does to Jalis itself. Something has to be done. Inspiring Reinforcement is 99% of the time a better skill to use compared it for the minor trait, weakness and stability compared a long vulnerable long cast of a skill that is likely to be too late mitigating damage.

Yea there’s nearly no situation where you would use RotGD in pvp especially since they added a shorter version of it to Ancient Echo. I’d really like lowering the cost and cast time of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Doto.6357 said:

@Buran.3796 said:...They released Renegade with the breakstun in the healing skill; Revenant skill balance team have been garbage since forever...

Renegade stunbreak is on the daze summon not on the heal skill

...They released Renegade with the breakstun in the healing skill; Revenant skill balance team have been garbage since forever... My point stands.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Defense Support nature of it when traited, but besides that it cost too much and duration too short for its cost, and its trait requirement. Would like if it had an additional effect such as the old Herald's AoE Stun Break. Also a decent AoE Barrier or heal would be nice.Self Retaliation also would be nice here. Some Stability would also be a nice Support bonus for this.

Honestly with the way the animation is, I feel it should blast and do some damage as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Knighthonor.4061 said:I like the Defense Support nature of it when traited, but besides that it cost too much and duration too short for its cost, and its trait requirement. Would like if it had an additional effect such as the old Herald's AoE Stun Break. Also a decent AoE Barrier or heal would be nice.Self Retaliation also would be nice here. Some Stability would also be a nice Support bonus for this.

Honestly with the way the animation is, I feel it should blast and do some damage as well.

It’s an amazing uncurrptable 50% damage reducer imo problem lies with its 90sec cd trait, it needs to make more of a wooosh, I needs to be a soft cc as well, as much the damage reducer is amazing since can’t be removed, it’s just that on expensive energy, damage and some sorta cc enemies would be nice or having its energy shafted to half would be a good option as well.One group with rotgd rotation with other classes on wvw can became almost unlivable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The combo you can push with weakness and damage reduction is amazing but the circumstances to pull it off in the right scenario's are tricky compared Ancient Echo because the application/resource is terrible to manage. Next to Renegade, Core can't effectively benefit from Jalis except under a very specific set of traits because of that delay, the energy is more or less of a bother though if Pain Absorption can last 5 seconds on Herald and have only ½ delay, surely they can at least make RotGD a bit faster, like ¾ even if it's not a removable it doesn't make you immune to any damage and it's lack of use popularity shows that it wouldn't power creep it at all, only make viable in more situations.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Buran.3796 said:

@Buran.3796 said:...They released Renegade with the breakstun in the healing skill; Revenant skill balance team have been garbage since forever...

Renegade stunbreak is on the daze summon not on the heal skill

...They
released
Renegade with the breakstun in the healing skill; Revenant skill balance team have been garbage since forever... My point stands.

I do not think the: “garbage” part is rev exclusive by any means. And honestly, there has been a clear change in Anet balance either personnel, monitoring or methodology, about a year ago. And ever since things have been getting from bad to worse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Knighthonor.4061 said:I like the Defense Support nature of it when traited, but besides that it cost too much and duration too short for its cost, and its trait requirement. Would like if it had an additional effect such as the old Herald's AoE Stun Break. Also a decent AoE Barrier or heal would be nice.Self Retaliation also would be nice here. Some Stability would also be a nice Support bonus for this.

Honestly with the way the animation is, I feel it should blast and do some damage as well.

Minus the damage (blast would be fitting for Diabolic Inferno), I like your points and agree with your suggestions. AoE barrier would be pretty sweet honestly and would create better synergy between it and Ventari since it would get value out of healing power.

As far as Stability goes, I'd like to see Versed in Stone changed to the following:

-Remove passive RotGD and stat conversion.-Retain the condition mitigation within the trait. I think this is important because in WvW it forces players off of Devastation or Invocation if they want the added utility, which is a significant loss in damage.-New feature: Grant stability [x3] to nearby allies (360 radius) when using an elite skill. 30-45s ICD.

That, AoE barrier, and better access to regen for the core class and I'd play the kitten out of a core support build.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

@ArthurDent.9538 said:I'm pretty sure there has never in this game been another stunbreak that was ever even close to 1.25 sec cast time unless the cast was protected by a block or evade. This is pretty much the only reason jalis isn't worth using in pvp as it is too susceptible to cc and focus fire. At least cut the cast in half while also giving aegis at the start of the cast, or just make the cast a channeled block like shelter, it is already expensive enough it can't be spammed.

Jalis line in general is pretty MEH. Road is boring, Spinning hammers is boring, taunt is decent now, but really hard to get more than 1 taunted anyway.

I feel that Jalis road should be removed and give us something else.

Vengeful hammers should at the least give retal for its duration. But I would like to see it removed as a toggle, and added as a CD of 12 seconds, 20 energy, gives you its current effect for 10 seconds.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Shao.7236" said:It's a stunbreak consuming 40 energy with a 1¼ cast time. Back in the days where things we're more slow and aggravating with big meaningful procedures, it made sense. Now? It doesn't hold up as great, very pro active skills are required and it ruins the flow or pace of playing with Jalis, it does not deserve to have such ultra high risk for medium reward. The gameplay is much more fast paced than before and the cast time is an insult to the legend in the terms of today standards.

Suggestions:

  1. Make the cast time ½ second.
  2. Make energy cost 30.
  3. Versed in Stone Condition Damage Reduction is baseline to the skill while the new trait provides stability on stunbreak with it's passive RotGD removed.

I am not saying all of these should be added together, maybe 1+2 or 2+3 but those are generally ways the skill could go to be more relevant because as of right now, there is almost no incentive to use it, nor being Versed in Stone particularly useful unless you build around it which is ineffective overall compared Steadfast Rejuvenate that can mitigate as much depending on the pressure and is overall more useful to all legends rather than just one skill, 3 seconds of Stability on stunbreak would benefit all legends and give people a good opt that makes energy less prone to be wasted by CC chains.

Even Renegade makes better use of Jalis skills than the traitline (Retribution) does to Jalis itself. Something has to be done. Inspiring Reinforcement is 99% of the time a better skill to use compared it for the minor trait, weakness and stability compared a long vulnerable long cast of a skill that is likely to be too late mitigating damage.

" 3. Versed in Stone Condition Damage Reduction is baseline to the skill while the new trait provides stability on stunbreak with it's passive RotGD removed."How about making the new trait giving 2 stability & an group-stunbreak to 5 allies

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Virdo.1540As long as the Condition Damage Reduction goes somewhere else to make it an uniform tank baseline is the best bet I have, would make Power Revenant a lot less allergic to conditions too given the little cleanse.

With Spirit Boon it's technically possible to share Stability on a stunbreak, but anyway. Making it similar to PA would be very nice, instead of sharing Resistance it would be Stability. One stack would be enough though because I don't want this to have an ICD, I'd be okay with the cast time of any stunbreak if it was this way because this means it'll be effective across all legends, perhaps making Invocation feel less mandatory as well, it's not like it could be spammed because it requires a stunbreak to activate anyway, If that's too powerful, make it so that when granting RotGD you gain and share Stability with the effect, a bit similar to Demonic Defiance but shared, however reduce the cast time to not get it stunned before it ends or have the final result be useless because in 1 second there's already so much that can happen.

@Knighthonor.4061my problem is that it cost energy of 40, even when its not casted/interruptedThe energy cost for the effect is fair, it's how it can be stopped so easily that it's not. Hence the ideas above.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Change it to self upkeep. Lore has to stop getting into balance.

That would be to strong since rotgd is really very good.It’s a 50% direct cut in damage taken....that can’t be removed, at best Anet could prolong its effect and make it an aoe stunbreaker by removing the condi damage trait w/o increasing energy cost for me that’s what means to put it in our with current game.

I don’t know if you know but jalis F2 from herald is already a upkeep that can’t be removed and reduces damage from 10 players....

In wvw I see a lot of jalis user but few know how really choose the right time to use it...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...