F2P Accounts Need Access to Map Chat in WvW

[grouchybhaal.4275]

Should be in discord anyway

[Sobx.1758]

Nope, they don't.

[Aaralyna.3104]

WvW is a combination Player versus Player/Player versus Environment game mode.

Now with the emphasis on this specific given.... Chats codings are probably the same allover the game. Except team chat is disabled in pve and in pvp its only per instance. S

So I have a guess that the devs only had 2 options.

1) enable map chat in all zones (which is a nono)2) disable team chat in pvp instances (which is a nono)

So they came up with disable map chats (aka restrictions) and leave team chat for what it is in wvw and pray there will be no abuse (or they have some other system in charge over team chat to get rid of bad stuff which only works over there).

One can only guess really.

As for the ones mentioning the I don't use chat in wvw... I do read the chat (tho mostly only the squad info due to that one being where the commanders guide)... I just don't type in map chat because why should I? I only follow a commander around so no need for me to speak some random stuff. So it could as well be restricted for me as it only counts for not being able to type. Everyone can read it.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Dami.5046 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sviel.7493 said:@Black Frog.9274@Dami.5046@Astral Projections.7320

There are no restrictions on using Team chat, which reaches across all 4 maps, yet there's no problem with gold sellers there. Likewise, if someone intends to troll, they will have more success in Team chat. There's no reason to allow Team chat but to restrict Map chat in WvW.

And since we've seen that letting F2P players into Team chat hasn't caused mass issues, there's no need to belatedly ban them from that either.

Clearly they don’t play WvW....

wanna bet?

Well, you may, but based on your comments you don’t pay attention to basic chat channels in WvW. If you did, you would understand the fallacy of the gold sellers argument for WvW.

And if I have to explain it to you again, then you haven’t been paying attention in here either.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@robertgippy.1302 said:I'm sure that it is also used to cut down the spam in map chat. Who wants chat to be filled with nonsense, like world of warcraft, the President, on and on and on. Map chat can get toxic as it is, and I've blocked many.

Again... team chat is more of an issue with spam....

Please understand the underlying issue before commenting about this in WvW.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Ashen.2907 said:I honestly do not see why. Team chat should be sufficient.

Do you understand the function of each?

Map specific calls are missed by free to play accounts.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Aaralyna.3104 said:WvW is a combination Player versus Player/Player versus Environment game mode.

Now with the emphasis on this specific given.... Chats codings are probably the same allover the game. Except team chat is disabled in pve and in pvp its only per instance. S

So I have a guess that the devs only had 2 options.

1) enable map chat in all zones (which is a nono)2) disable team chat in pvp instances (which is a nono)

So they came up with disable map chats (aka restrictions) and leave team chat for what it is in wvw and pray there will be no abuse (or they have some other system in charge over team chat to get rid of bad stuff which only works over there).

One can only guess really.

As for the ones mentioning the I don't use chat in wvw... I do read the chat (tho mostly only the squad info due to that one being where the commanders guide)... I just don't type in map chat because why should I? I only follow a commander around so no need for me to speak some random stuff. So it could as well be restricted for me as it only counts for not being able to type. Everyone can read it.

Someone who gets it. ?

Unfortunately you are likely correct which only fans the flames of being the ‘poor relations from the north.’

When something breaks in PvE it’s fixed. Usually immediately. Take the story crash issue today. Mostly fixed within the first 8-10 hours and likely will be fixed by the Am.

WvW still has game breaking exploits created by a mount that was added 3-4 months ago.. never mind some of the exploits that popped up with... wait for it... HoT...

But likely the issue is that the poor relations don’t get it because it would inconvenience the rich cousin. ?

[Sviel.7493]

Perhaps I'm a fool, but I didn't quite expect this sort of pushback. It seems to come from two camps.

1.) Allowing Map chat in WvW would be difficult to code and it cannot be allowed generally because of gold sellers in PvE.

Now, I hate gold spammers as much as everyone else, so I'm not saying that the PvE rules should change. However, if they can't change the restriction based on the game mode then all they have to do is make a second chat called 'Map.' On the player end it could look just like the original Map chat, but on the server side it wouldn't have the relevant restriction.

2.) Map chat is useless so this doesn't matter.

For an established zergling, communication is a one-way street. They log on, find a commander (or, failing that, log off), and listen to that sweet, bossy buzz in their ear until their play session ends. There's never a need for them to use Map chat and they seem to think that this means no one else needs to use it either. Now, if they say they don't need it, that's perfectly fine for them. However, there are some WvW players that stick around even when there isn't a tag around to tell them how to poop. For us, map chat is a critical tool to share information so that we can make our own decisions--a burden that zerglings clearly never have to bear. We rely not just on telling other people what to do, but on other people telling us where the enemies are, what objectives need assistance, or to plan assaults that are too big for one person.

So, if you happen to be a zergling, please don't concern yourself with this post. It will not have any effect on your life one way or the other, save for possibly easing new prospective zerglings into discord or teamspeak or just the squad in general. It won't hurt you, I promise.

[Aaralyna.3104]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

WvW still has game breaking exploits created by a mount that was added 3-4 months ago.. never mind some of the exploits that popped up with... wait for it... HoT...

I have a feeling they may actually be very well aware of at least the bugs from just before they announced alliances. They are working on World restructuring in WvW. They said this includes alliances but also revamping wvw gameplay itself. If you revamp how the mode works and looks then they simply don't put resources into fixing it if it will be automatically gone after the revamp already. It only took them longer due to backend issues. So lets wait for the world restructuring coming live. WvW may be a totally different world then.

I am not really a wvw nor pvp player but I still hope this will bring new life into a vibrant version of wvw.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Aaralyna.3104 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

WvW still has game breaking exploits created by a mount that was added 3-4 months ago.. never mind some of the exploits that popped up with... wait for it... HoT...

I have a feeling they may actually be very well aware of at least the bugs from just before they announced alliances. They are working on World restructuring in WvW. They said this includes alliances but also revamping wvw gameplay itself. If you revamp how the mode works and looks then they simply don't put resources into fixing it if it will be automatically gone after the revamp already. It only took them longer due to backend issues. So lets wait for the world restructuring coming live. WvW may be a totally different world then.

I am not really a wvw nor pvp player but I still hope this will bring new life into a vibrant version of wvw.

There is the rub.. we have been waiting. For 20 months. The last real ‘update was 15 months ago. Each of the subsequent ‘updates’ have effectively been ‘its coming!’ And ‘its still a priority’.

Most of us are kinda numb to it.

If you look at the population numbers on the wiki, and followed it for the past 5 months, the population has drastically dropped.

For the first time, there are not enough high/very high/full servers to function as host servers for all tiers on either NA or EU.

Three servers in each region that are hosts are Medium pop.

6 months ago, NA had 5-8 ‘full’ servers, with 8 very high servers...

Now? One full, two very high, 6 high...

It’s kinda frustrating as the amount of information coming out (or not lol) has pushed players out. Along with the perceived neglect.

Well.. sorry for the rant.... ?

[SinisterSlay.6973]

It's a shame they can't just make free players fill out a captcha to use the map chat each time they send a message. It would be irritating as all hell, but still useful for people to be able to call out to the map for help in the low population starter zones.

[Black Frog.9274]

If you are a true "zergling" and so pro, you're connected by speech to the rest of the zerg, not relying on map chat.

Man up and buy the game and stop being a cheapskate.

[Sviel.7493]

@"Black Frog.9274" said:If you are a true "zergling" and so pro, you're connected by speech to the rest of the zerg, not relying on map chat.

Man up and buy the game and stop being a cheapskate.

I don't know how you got any of that from anything but...

I'm not a zergling. I've bought the game--pretty sure F2P accounts don't have forum access. I'm not sure what 'Man up' has to do with anything, but I'll keep that in mind? But again...this has nothing to do with anything. Why would you oppose other people doing something that you clearly have no stake in?

[avey.4201]

I leveled to 80 on a free account before I bought the game, and started WvW shortly before I bought it, by then I'd disabled map chat so long ago I forgot it existed.It should be trivial for them to check if an F2P account is using map chat on a wvw map, and the use/misuse of tactics is irrelevant if they are free to play or not, its not against any rules as guilds have the option to stop random people from pulling tactics.

[robertgippy.1302]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@robertgippy.1302 said:I'm sure that it is also used to cut down the spam in map chat. Who wants chat to be filled with nonsense, like world of warcraft, the President, on and on and on. Map chat can get toxic as it is, and I've blocked many.

Again... team chat is more of an issue with spam....

Please understand the underlying issue before commenting about this in Wvw

I do understand. I am sure you don't want nonsense in chat and it has happened. Excuse me for commenting.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@robertgippy.1302 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@robertgippy.1302 said:I'm sure that it is also used to cut down the spam in map chat. Who wants chat to be filled with nonsense, like world of warcraft, the President, on and on and on. Map chat can get toxic as it is, and I've blocked many.

Again... team chat is more of an issue with spam....

Please understand the underlying issue before commenting about this in Wvw

I do understand. I am sure you don't want nonsense in chat and it has happened. Excuse me for commenting.

Honestly, non sense in any chat channel will happen regardless of controls as Long as people are involved. That is in no way what we are trying to correct.

But do you understand how Team Chat functions?

If you don’t, team chat is broadcast over 5 maps: EBG, the three borderlands, and Obsidian Sanctum. All to your server players. Ideally it is used to call out for help on different boarders.

Map chat, is specific to whichever borderland/map the player is on.

So, map specific coordination is lost on Free to play players.

So you can see how this doesn’t prevent ‘gold seller’ spam in WvW, though in my years of playing, I’ve received one gold seller PM in WvW in the last 5 years (more in the two years before)

And isn’t the reason we are asking for a change.

[robertgippy.1302]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@robertgippy.1302 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@robertgippy.1302 said:I'm sure that it is also used to cut down the spam in map chat. Who wants chat to be filled with nonsense, like world of warcraft, the President, on and on and on. Map chat can get toxic as it is, and I've blocked many.

Again... team chat is more of an issue with spam....

Please understand the underlying issue before commenting about this in Wvw

I do understand. I am sure you don't want nonsense in chat and it has happened. Excuse me for commenting.

Honestly, non sense in any chat channel will happen regardless of controls as Long as people are involved. That is in no way what we are trying to correct.

But do you understand how Team Chat functions?

If you don’t, team chat is broadcast over 5 maps: EBG, the three borderlands, and Obsidian Sanctum. All to your server players. Ideally it is used to call out for help on different boarders.

Map chat, is specific to whichever borderland/map the player is on.

So, map specific coordination is lost on Free to play players.

So you can see how this doesn’t prevent ‘gold seller’ spam in WvW, though in my years of playing, I’ve received one gold seller PM in WvW in the last 5 years (more in the two years before)

And isn’t the reason we are asking for a change.

Been playing since launch my friend, and know fully how team chat works. Ask for your change and good luck with that. Fin

[Strider Pj.2193]

@robertgippy.1302 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@robertgippy.1302 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@robertgippy.1302 said:I'm sure that it is also used to cut down the spam in map chat. Who wants chat to be filled with nonsense, like world of warcraft, the President, on and on and on. Map chat can get toxic as it is, and I've blocked many.

Again... team chat is more of an issue with spam....

Please understand the underlying issue before commenting about this in Wvw

I do understand. I am sure you don't want nonsense in chat and it has happened. Excuse me for commenting.

Honestly, non sense in any chat channel will happen regardless of controls as Long as people are involved. That is in no way what we are trying to correct.

But do you understand how Team Chat functions?

If you don’t, team chat is broadcast over 5 maps: EBG, the three borderlands, and Obsidian Sanctum. All to your server players. Ideally it is used to call out for help on different boarders.

Map chat, is specific to whichever borderland/map the player is on.

So, map specific coordination is lost on Free to play players.

So you can see how this doesn’t prevent ‘gold seller’ spam in WvW, though in my years of playing, I’ve received one gold seller PM in WvW in the last 5 years (more in the two years before)

And isn’t the reason we are asking for a change.

Been playing since launch my friend, and know fully how team chat works. Ask for your change and good luck with that. Fin

Got it. I appreciate your input. Maybe you could suggest why Team Chat was allowed for F2P players in WvW but Map chat wasn’t?

It would assist in identifying issues that may be of concern.

[Black Frog.9274]

Apparently the only real argument for allowing it is: some non-specific number of people may or may not shout out in map chat in wvw.

Arguments against: some sort of coding is necessary to split wvw map chat from pve map chat; other available chat channels; other available communication channels (discord); potential for abuse by trolls/gold sellers; people who really want to speak in map chat can pay the 50 bucks and buy the game (which, in a side note, would help pay to get more devs, who could then make that coding change)

Ball is now in ANET's court.

Are we done now?

[Aaralyna.3104]

@Strider Pj.2193

Oh I do agree with you that it is taking them way too long. And not just for WvW. Also PvP atm feels emptier.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Black Frog.9274 said:Apparently the only real argument for allowing it is: some non-specific number of people may or may not shout out in map chat in wvw.

Arguments against: some sort of coding is necessary to split wvw map chat from pve map chat; other available chat channels; other available communication channels (discord); potential for abuse by trolls/gold sellers; people who really want to speak in map chat can pay the 50 bucks and buy the game (which, in a side note, would help pay to get more devs, who could then make that coding change)

Ball is now in ANET's court.

Are we done now?

Nope. But you can be if you’d like. ?

[starlinvf.1358]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:Well, the only reason they can't use map chat is likely because Anet has estimated that it is one of the best ways to poke at free players to make them pay. It is likely supposed to be inconvenient and the perspective does not involve what is useful to the game mode. It's like the Warclaw but even more purposeful.

B)

Except thats not the reason. Its obvious that the reason is technical, and one of many legacy issues from the monolithic approach to their coding designs. A LOT of things in this engine can't be conditionally referenced; and a lot of changes up until recently have been kuldgey in nature. The frame work of the chat system is all channel based, and the Map chat label is the same for all servers systems. To create that kind of distinction, the most accessible method under the current system is to generate a new WvW exclusive map channel, and build a different set of permissions for it. The UI can support this, since thats how Squad chat got added..... its more a question of what the back end can do, and if it needs a proxy to get around channel labeling issues.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:Well, the only reason they can't use map chat is likely because Anet has estimated that it is one of the best ways to poke at free players to make them pay. It is likely supposed to be inconvenient and the perspective does not involve what is useful to the game mode. It's like the Warclaw but even more purposeful.

B)

Except thats not the reason. Its obvious that the reason is technical, and one of many legacy issues from the monolithic approach to their coding designs. A LOT of things in this engine can't be conditionally referenced; and a lot of changes up until recently have been kuldgey in nature. The frame work of the chat system is all channel based, and the Map chat label is the same for all servers systems. To create that kind of distinction, the most accessible method under the current system is to generate a new WvW exclusive map channel, and build a different set of permissions for it. The UI can support this, since thats how Squad chat got added..... its more a question of what the back end can do, and if it needs a proxy to get around channel labeling issues.

A new channel would be outstanding actually. That being said, I tend to doubt that it would be added for WvW. But we can hope. ?

[subversiontwo.7501]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:Well, the only reason they can't use map chat is likely because Anet has estimated that it is one of the best ways to poke at free players to make them pay. It is likely supposed to be inconvenient and the perspective does not involve what is useful to the game mode. It's like the Warclaw but even more purposeful.

B)

Except thats not the reason. Its obvious that the reason is technical, and one of many legacy issues from the monolithic approach to their coding designs. A LOT of things in this engine can't be conditionally referenced; and a lot of changes up until recently have been kuldgey in nature. The frame work of the chat system is all channel based, and the Map chat label is the same for all servers systems. To create that kind of distinction, the most accessible method under the current system is to generate a new WvW exclusive map channel, and build a different set of permissions for it. The UI can support this, since thats how Squad chat got added..... its more a question of what the back end can do, and if it needs a proxy to get around channel labeling issues.

Interesting. I am unsure about what I think of it, but kudos for making a good post.

[Dayra.7405]

First of all: as f2p you must be 60 or 70 to enter wvw. So you cannot disturb without serious effort.

Second, if f2p can use team chat (all 4 maps) then it makes zero sense to forbid (single) map chat. Any (gold-) spammer would always prefer team char.