Should class switching in ranked be removed?

[Doto.6357]

One thing I’m beginning to notice a lot is duos queueing as a class they want to play against, then swapping once they’re inside the match to attempt to counter the other team. This feels like a dishonest system to me, but what do you guys think?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its easy to fix. lock professions with a minute left to game start, but leave build changing open. you will still have people switching but you can counter it somewhat.

[aymnad.9023]

I am going to go against the popular opinion. I am in favor of swapping. This is not a moba. You do not build a team that make sense at the start and build synergies. Also this is different from other games. In other mmorpg you know that “priest” and “summoner” can be healer. So in >10 man battle they just put some of those 2 in both team and that’s all. And even in those mmo you could have a team with summoners and none of them were healers leading to a loss.

When I see the enemy has dps builds with good mobility and an fb meanwhile my team has 5 solo builds it feels like a >60% chance to lose. If my comp has not the dmg, not the survivability and benefits from an fb I swap. (I cannot do more because I do not play many classes).

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

its easy to fix. lock professions with a minute left to game start, but leave build changing open. you will still have people switching but you can counter it somewhat.The correct way to make is:

1. Give a period to swap class
2. Lock class
3. Give a period to swap builds (easier once build templates are in)The only thing I have been against for a while is 3 of the same class. Right now there are less super op builds that will make you win most of your games. Stacking should lead to a penalty for the one swapping (including his/her partner in case of a duo queue even if they are not playing the same class).

[Falan.1839]

The way it works in Ranked is fine imo. If you know your class will be hardcountered by most players on the enemy team, switching is a viable move. I agree that the double Q on a "preferred opponent class" is a way of gaming the system, but imo that is more a problem of the matchmaker than with class switching itself. Originally the matchmaker didn't account for classes, but people were complaining about class stacking of fotm builds, so Anet made the system account for class distribution between teams. This is the drawback.

I am however, vehemently opposed to class-switching mid-game, as it is possible in ATs.

[Engal.6359]

I dont want to get stuck playing mesmer into double condo thief. Would be better than if you couldn't have two of a hard counter on the other them.

[Engal.6359]

@Engal.6359 said:I dont want to get stuck playing mesmer into double condi thief. Would be better than if you couldn't have two of a hard counter on the other them.Edit: spelling

[Itz Jay.8941]

No, there would be a lot more landslide games and people throwing if this change was implemented. If you are queuing as a holo and get thrown against 3-4 condi classes you are dead plain and simple, swapping classes here allows us to have some control over the matchmaking system which is essentially a lottery every time you press ranked, all this change would do is make ranked even more of a lottery. If you can't beat em, join em, otherwise queue as the class you enjoy and have fun.

[shippage.1983]

Yes, it's really easy to abuse. You just queue in as a weak class like Ranger, get matched against a Ranger, then swap to an actually good class. I play every class, and do think that multi-classing should be rewarded, but not in it's current format.This might be a bit complicated for Anet devs, but I think the optimal situation would be able to do counter pick orders similar to Mobas.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@aymnad.9023 said:snips

did you just quote me and repeat what I said as your own idea?

[Jayce.5632]

Let people switch all they want, as long as they can't see the enemies names or professions until the match officially locks with the start of the 10 second countdown.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I'm on the fence...One hand the match maker uses what class you are to set up the match and by switching it messes that up.On the other hand counter picking your class against the enemys is a fair strategy to use.

I'm leaning more towards not allowing class switching soly on the fact the the match maker uses the class you are in to set up the match

[Math.5123]

This wouldn't be a problem if the balance wasn't as atrocious as it is.With any semblance of actual work put into the game mode, by people that play it. This would never be an issue.

[Serenity.6304]

It is a question of perception.I voted for yes, solely because the balance is not good.I repeatedly see people (top 5-10 in duo queue, playing off-time) both queuing as a necro and then switching to a counter class. This is quite sad actually that those people need the abuse. If they are that good, they should be able to win because of their skill and competence. While the population is so low, I get match-upped against those players all the time.Since I am a necro main, I started to do the same with another class only to not get these counters (because I have no counters for their necro counters :D) This seems to work.So until the balance is like that, I would like to "lock" the classes you queue with, even if that means no strategic class switching.

[BadMed.3846]

As long as there are no two of the same class it's fine to get rid of it. Else, allow switching.

[derd.6413]

this wouldn't fix the issue so much as replace it with ppl going AFK when they get an unfavorable team comp

[Khalisto.5780]

This could work if we had 2, 3x the current population, now you can be threw in a match with a losing comp, like it happen many times

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I think class-switching is too hidden of a feature to the extent that it doesn't even feel intentional. It also encourages metagaming by rewarding people going outside the game to seek an advantage within, and gives yet another unfair advantage to DuoQ players that SoloQ players don't have.

I also think the game does an alright-enough job mirroring team compositions to the extent that class-switching isn't usually necessary or all that impactful unless done in a DuoQ, so if DuoQ was removed or split into a separate queue then class-switching would be absolutely fine.

With DuoQ it's too easy to abuse by cherry-picking your matchups for not just one, but two people; while the SoloQ players struggle to keep up before a round starts, or just don't bother and play with the handicap of having two classes that counter them on the enemy team. You're more likely to have a blowout match either way, than if you just left it all up to the matchmaker.

It's DuoQ that makes it a problem, but since that's the world we live in I vote yes.

[Itz Jay.8941]

@"shippage.1983" said:Yes, it's really easy to abuse. You just queue in as a weak class like Ranger, get matched against a Ranger, then swap to an actually good class. I play every class, and do think that multi-classing should be rewarded, but not in it's current format.This might be a bit complicated for Anet devs, but I think the optimal situation would be able to do counter pick orders similar to Mobas.

You think this is the way it works but in reality it's a complete lottery, the chances of doing this actually improving your game mode are slim to none. I would say 99% or more of people do not do this and at higher tiers pretty much everybody multi-classes anyway so its inconsequential. I had a game today with 2 reapers on my team vs 2 scourge and they got absolutely trolled on, they were porting about while the scourges just chilled back ranging them, so tell me how the reapers went into the match but didn't get matched against one reaper? I'll tell you how, because it doesn't work the way you think, it's a lottery bud.

I would argue that the likelihood of you getting a bad match up is much higher than you getting enemies swapping and then getting stomped. What you have to remember as well is that even though they have swapped classes, they will not be as good on that class as they would be on their main. Whats more if you couldn't swap classes, then what's to stop duos from stomping even more since you cant take any advantage against them. There is a lot more to think about than "I only play one class, so should everyone else"

It's like the saying goes sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, in this case we are being unfair to be fair.

P.S I don't even multi class, I just play for fun.

[Fortus.6175]

I voted yes only because of the purpose class switching which I have started to adopt myself.

In between glacial balance cadence (hello there mini patch every 3-4 months, many of which is mostly bug fixes) and people abusing DuoQ in aRANKED mode, my only way of not exploding as an ele, is to switch the moment I see a holo/SB/rev. At this point I queue up as necro and then switch to any burst class, and that gives me good results. This stuff wouldnt happen if balance was even remotely there.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Counter play is about strategy. Without any counterplay, PvP would be 100% complete garbo as without strategy, might as well be zerging in WvW like a mindless drone spamming 1. If you locked it so no dup classes on 1 team, then that would be perfect.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Jayce.5632 said:Let people switch all they want, as long as they can't see the enemies names or professions until the match officially locks with the start of the 10 second countdown.

sounds good to me altho multiple same specs shouldn't be allowed.

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Jayce.5632 said:Let people switch all they want, as long as they can't see the enemies names nor professions until the match officially locks with the start of the 10 second countdown.fify :)

Although, I would allow the possibility to change your build depending on enemy comp, so maybe just let people switch class blindly all they want until 30s remain, after what each team comp is revealed, thus allowing you to adjust your build accordingly.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Jayce.5632 said:Let people switch all they want, as long as they can't see the enemies names or professions until the match officially locks with the start of the 10 second countdown.

This is by far the best approach if anything were to change.

I mostly want it so Im not stuck with double firebrand scenario.

[Fortus.6175]

@Jayce.5632 said:Let people switch all they want, as long as they can't see the enemies names or professions until the match officially locks with the start of the 10 second countdown.

Honestly this is a good compromise, and a logical one.

[rwolf.9571]

The less players can game the system, the less variables anet can account for balanced matches. But it's too late anyway.