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@Offair.2563 said:

@Suraci.1642 said:If you die to oneshot thief these days you either having a bad build or you are a bad player, oneshot power thieves are extremely squishy, Deadeye got nerfed long ago, they used to hit like 50k, if you find this perma stealth build is so OP, try and play it yourself, upkeeping stealth is super exhausting, plenty ways to counter this: Thief: Instant Reflexes, Ranger : Lesser Signet of Stone, Warrior: Lesser Endure Pain, Ele: Stone Heart(You cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth), Lesser Arcane Shield and guess what thieves on dagger backstab or rifle have no unblockable, if you see them go into stealth, raise your shield up, get in stealth yourself, tele away, or simply just run away dont stand there and die like a dummy. If you die to a player in game and dont know how to use their same build against them or counter them with other builds, sorry mate but you need to improve, asking daddy anet for candy nerf gonna take a long time, be a man take business into your own hands, smash them with the build they smash you, if you lose you are worse than them, nothing to be salty here, its all fair game, simple as that.

Now if you reread this topic again careful this time you would see its about perma stealth, not one shot..

Now if you rethink this topic again careful this time, you would see a perma stealth thief cant do nothing to harm you except for the backstab to down you instantly which is why the topic was here in the first place, permastealth is not the problem but the damage is, I wouldnt mind if there is a permastealth thief following me around just to tickle me, a permastealth thief capable of oneshotting me following me around on the other hand.

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@Suraci.1642 said:

@Suraci.1642 said:If you die to oneshot thief these days you either having a bad build or you are a bad player, oneshot power thieves are extremely squishy, Deadeye got nerfed long ago, they used to hit like 50k, if you find this perma stealth build is so OP, try and play it yourself, upkeeping stealth is super exhausting, plenty ways to counter this: Thief: Instant Reflexes, Ranger : Lesser Signet of Stone, Warrior: Lesser Endure Pain, Ele: Stone Heart(You cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth), Lesser Arcane Shield and guess what thieves on dagger backstab or rifle have no unblockable, if you see them go into stealth, raise your shield up, get in stealth yourself, tele away, or simply just run away dont stand there and die like a dummy. If you die to a player in game and dont know how to use their same build against them or counter them with other builds, sorry mate but you need to improve, asking daddy anet for candy nerf gonna take a long time, be a man take business into your own hands, smash them with the build they smash you, if you lose you are worse than them, nothing to be salty here, its all fair game, simple as that.

Now if you reread this topic again careful this time you would see its about perma stealth, not one shot..

Now if you rethink this topic again careful this time, you would see a perma stealth thief cant do nothing to harm you except for the backstab to down you instantly which is why the topic was here in the first place, permastealth is not the problem but the damage is, I wouldnt mind if there is a permastealth thief following me around just to tickle me, a permastealth thief capable of oneshotting me following me around on the other hand.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Portal

Beside that they can perma tag structures from the inside, kill all the siege and whatnot..

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@Offair.2563 said:

@Suraci.1642 said:If you die to oneshot thief these days you either having a bad build or you are a bad player, oneshot power thieves are extremely squishy, Deadeye got nerfed long ago, they used to hit like 50k, if you find this perma stealth build is so OP, try and play it yourself, upkeeping stealth is super exhausting, plenty ways to counter this: Thief: Instant Reflexes, Ranger : Lesser Signet of Stone, Warrior: Lesser Endure Pain, Ele: Stone Heart(You cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth), Lesser Arcane Shield and guess what thieves on dagger backstab or rifle have no unblockable, if you see them go into stealth, raise your shield up, get in stealth yourself, tele away, or simply just run away dont stand there and die like a dummy. If you die to a player in game and dont know how to use their same build against them or counter them with other builds, sorry mate but you need to improve, asking daddy anet for candy nerf gonna take a long time, be a man take business into your own hands, smash them with the build they smash you, if you lose you are worse than them, nothing to be salty here, its all fair game, simple as that.

Now if you reread this topic again careful this time you would see its about perma stealth, not one shot..

Now if you rethink this topic again careful this time, you would see a perma stealth thief cant do nothing to harm you except for the backstab to down you instantly which is why the topic was here in the first place, permastealth is not the problem but the damage is, I wouldnt mind if there is a permastealth thief following me around just to tickle me, a permastealth thief capable of oneshotting me following me around on the other hand.

Beside that they can perma tag structures from the inside, kill all the siege and whatnot..

yeah so? they are not doing anything to you and if they are killing siege they would be out of stealth to do so and you can kill them, I dont see a problem here.

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Its always a vocal minority that usually complain about thief builds that aren't really that OP, and they're usually players who have never touched the class. With a few exceptions in the past that have been 100% valid. (perplex P/D condi thief from years ago anybody? and ofcourse DE before the nerfs)

But the majority seem to agree there are other classes that are far more overturned currently:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87656/which-pof-profession-would-you-nerf#latest

Gotta love DE on that poll with a whopping 6% of the votes. Plz nerf anet. Firebrand/scourge is totally fine.

But seriously the problem is damage. When people say that DE shouldn't be able to one hit backstab they're 100% right. But I'm afraid that pretty much every class has some cheese one shot build, for instance today:

But I'm not crying for any more longbow SB nerfs because honestly I think its damage is on par with other classes now after the recent nerf. But thats the problem ALL classes do way too much damage.

Hell if i know how to fix it though.

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@kraai.7265 said:

@kraai.7265 said:DE can use sword pistol 5+2 combo, swap to rifle, dodge, and repeat, and boom, perma stealth with no interupts or counters, if you get revealed you can use stealth ult, that cancels revealed effect.Also if you use rifle 5, then 4 to pull a smoke curtain, you can use dagger 2 like 4 times, add a rifle dodge and you can stealth 5 extra seconds, enough to move freely only using this combo once in a while instead of all the time.Yet anet doesn't know this is a thing, maybe a dev likes stealth a lot...

Um infiltrator strike and ps5 give stealth? U mean dagger? Also cuz ini that combo does not grant perma stealth as u run outa ini way before and it regenerates to slow, u need stealth utilities etc. And SA trait for extended stealth which all means sacrificing other utilities and a better traitline. U dont need SA line but it's annoying without. U guys need to stop making it seem like perma is a few clicks for perma lol

Hi you are right, i forgot to mention you need shadow arts in order to do that but you don't need any other utility with this build.the two rotations i know areblack powder+heartseeker(x3)+rifle dodge and repeatkneel+sniper's cover(rifle 4 while kneeling)+heartseeker(x4)+rifle dodge and repeat, this combo gives way more stealth so you can move more freely between rotations or stack several times for higher uptime.Btw well executed this rotations give 100% stealth uptime, the only thing i do is spam this rotations, if i use the second one i repeat it several times until i get +10 stealth uptime, look for my target activate assassin's signet, steal, precast malicious bullshtab use infiltrator's signet and boom, no less than a 17k hp malicious backstab right in their face. Then i swap to rifle dodge and start all over. In pvp ive been camping far nodes for entire games, just doing that.

Also i wrote sword pistol and i meant dagger pistol, srry bout that.

Regarding counterplay, it's true we don't have enough reveals on each class, most of them don't even have a reveal at all, i wish they could make it so if you get hit while in stealth you get insta revealed too, but they only way people countered me using this is standing in my black powder or spamming hard aoe cc, so i can't spam heartseeker, or i hit them accidentaly and get revealed, the only problem i find is i can still swap to rifle, dodge, use shadow meld to lose revealed effect or withraw, with concealed restoration (shadow arts first trait) and stay in stealth long enough until i reach max iniciative to start my rotations again.

The other thing i hate, is that even if you sacrifice utility from acrobatics/deadly arts/trickery, the damage you get between DE and critical strikes is enough to land pretty easy 18k malicious backstabs maybe more if you get some might stacks somehow. Plus you don't have to waste offensive skills in order to mantain stealth uptime and the survability it gives surpases any other sort of sustain utility or skills you can bring to the table on other builds.

Even tho i use the build and enjoy one shotting players, it's completely broken and unfair and i would love it to be erased from game, same as DE, one of the most stupid spec concepts out there. To even think rangers don't have rifles and thiefs do... how stupid someone can be. And stealth on dodges my god...

hi!

"The people you're killing with that build are the people who post threads in this forum claiming perma stealth theives are killing the game. Against normal to good players, it's a joke build and you're better off going core or Drd"

Love how some people asume things they don't even know and out of nowhere, at least ask for some basic info beforehand, like idk my pvp rank or wvw level.In pvp i try to avoid duels and only plus fights, most die so quickly i can't measure how skilled they are(18k malicious backstab from stealth), yet i play in plat 2 if that helps.In wvw, it gets even better with foods and other buffs.

"but when taking into account match mechanics, especially in wvw, it does get a little ridiculous and the stealth duration does need to get broken up somehow or make a stealth duration stack disable the ability to use stealth skills if stacked above 4 seconds or something. "

I actually like your idea, that or maybe 1 sec reveal in each class autoattack

DE is fine, suggesting it needs to be taken out of the game is just stupid as it's not overpowered and

DE is not fine at all.malicious backstab is not fine at all, a 18k hp hit, in one single skill that you can cast while in stealth..100% stealth uptime so you can disengage any fight, or hide in towers and keeps for ever.stealth on dodge.thief's rifle has more range than a rangers longbow, plus more potential damage (added just for fun).shadow meld: a game lacking player held stealth counters, gives the most stealth oriented class, an anti reveal skill!!! oh anet stop it please, stop it now too many smart decisions at once

Also i don't want it erased because of damage, if not because it brings boring gameplay into the table, like most of pof specs, and it goes in a completely different direction from the core class and previous spec, like if a new team of devs took over after hot, and the people behind hot specs were fired. Think about it

-thief the most mobile class in game, our beloved "ninja", went from a martial artist with tons of jumps and mobility into a freaking sniper!!! our speciality? kneel!!! ANET kitten-combat mechanic is stupid, at first you had to stay in stealth until reaching full malice, throw him whatever and instakill, having some trouble? dodge and run, later they went with the old classic hit and run, hit, stealth, repeat, no combos, no quick thinking, just repetition

"some DE builds are fun and rewarding to play."Name some, i wouldn't call rewarding any rifle build, because stealth on dodge is like playing in easy mode, but surprise me, i would try them allThe amount of fun you get from a build changes for each player, only build i had some fun is one shot malicious backstab, but i run it only for the laughs and to get easy wins in pvpBut i feel it will never be as fun as daredevil or core, the whole game got pretty boring to me since hot release, i feel classes now are really simple and overperform, too many passive effects, and trait synergy it's insane

"Feel free to delete your DE if you don't like it"Well... thief was my first character, and ive been playing gw2 for the last 5 years, i don't main DE at all, it's just another meme build i can use to abuse a bit and have some fun, so i think i won't be deleting it in the near future, but thanks for the advice

I gotta apologize for the attitude, I still mostly disagree but you're right about perspective, I mostly stealth for boon steal and dr. I don't feel like Malicious BS has been ruining anyone's day for awhile but it can get kind of stupid depending on the other builds needed for where you're at. I can pack enough around BS already anyway, I'd rather have a stack of weakness or something and some kind of super speed for a bit after opening myself up.

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@Eme.2018 said:

@"kraai.7265" said:why would i've be revealed?
. You don't actually play thief, do you?

the only reveal i have trouble with is revs

also don't forget shadow meld cancels revealed effect.But you didn't cast it, you just wasted your dodge roll.

Loool, i just clearly typed, the only reveal i have trouble against is rev's all the others you posted i've never had trouble with."But you didn't cast it, you just wasted your dodge roll." wtf did you want to say with this? are you imagining my duels in your head?... i didn't know gw forums became a roleplaying game....

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@kash.9213 said:

@kraai.7265 said:DE can use sword pistol 5+2 combo, swap to rifle, dodge, and repeat, and boom, perma stealth with no interupts or counters, if you get revealed you can use stealth ult, that cancels revealed effect.Also if you use rifle 5, then 4 to pull a smoke curtain, you can use dagger 2 like 4 times, add a rifle dodge and you can stealth 5 extra seconds, enough to move freely only using this combo once in a while instead of all the time.Yet anet doesn't know this is a thing, maybe a dev likes stealth a lot...

Um infiltrator strike and ps5 give stealth? U mean dagger? Also cuz ini that combo does not grant perma stealth as u run outa ini way before and it regenerates to slow, u need stealth utilities etc. And SA trait for extended stealth which all means sacrificing other utilities and a better traitline. U dont need SA line but it's annoying without. U guys need to stop making it seem like perma is a few clicks for perma lol

Hi you are right, i forgot to mention you need shadow arts in order to do that but you don't need any other utility with this build.the two rotations i know areblack powder+heartseeker(x3)+rifle dodge and repeatkneel+sniper's cover(rifle 4 while kneeling)+heartseeker(x4)+rifle dodge and repeat, this combo gives way more stealth so you can move more freely between rotations or stack several times for higher uptime.Btw well executed this rotations give 100% stealth uptime, the only thing i do is spam this rotations, if i use the second one i repeat it several times until i get +10 stealth uptime, look for my target activate assassin's signet, steal, precast malicious bullshtab use infiltrator's signet and boom, no less than a 17k hp malicious backstab right in their face. Then i swap to rifle dodge and start all over. In pvp ive been camping far nodes for entire games, just doing that.

Also i wrote sword pistol and i meant dagger pistol, srry bout that.

Regarding counterplay, it's true we don't have enough reveals on each class, most of them don't even have a reveal at all, i wish they could make it so if you get hit while in stealth you get insta revealed too, but they only way people countered me using this is standing in my black powder or spamming hard aoe cc, so i can't spam heartseeker, or i hit them accidentaly and get revealed, the only problem i find is i can still swap to rifle, dodge, use shadow meld to lose revealed effect or withraw, with concealed restoration (shadow arts first trait) and stay in stealth long enough until i reach max iniciative to start my rotations again.

The other thing i hate, is that even if you sacrifice utility from acrobatics/deadly arts/trickery, the damage you get between DE and critical strikes is enough to land pretty easy 18k malicious backstabs maybe more if you get some might stacks somehow. Plus you don't have to waste offensive skills in order to mantain stealth uptime and the survability it gives surpases any other sort of sustain utility or skills you can bring to the table on other builds.

Even tho i use the build and enjoy one shotting players, it's completely broken and unfair and i would love it to be erased from game, same as DE, one of the most stupid spec concepts out there. To even think rangers don't have rifles and thiefs do... how stupid someone can be. And stealth on dodges my god...

hi!

"The people you're killing with that build are the people who post threads in this forum claiming perma stealth theives are killing the game. Against normal to good players, it's a joke build and you're better off going core or Drd"

Love how some people asume things they don't even know and out of nowhere, at least ask for some basic info beforehand, like idk my pvp rank or wvw level.In pvp i try to avoid duels and only plus fights, most die so quickly i can't measure how skilled they are(18k malicious backstab from stealth), yet i play in plat 2 if that helps.In wvw, it gets even better with foods and other buffs.

"but when taking into account match mechanics, especially in wvw, it does get a little ridiculous and the stealth duration does need to get broken up somehow or make a stealth duration stack disable the ability to use stealth skills if stacked above 4 seconds or something. "

I actually like your idea, that or maybe 1 sec reveal in each class autoattack

DE is fine, suggesting it needs to be taken out of the game is just stupid as it's not overpowered and

DE is not fine at all.malicious backstab is not fine at all, a 18k hp hit, in one single skill that you can cast while in stealth..100% stealth uptime so you can disengage any fight, or hide in towers and keeps for ever.stealth on dodge.thief's rifle has more range than a rangers longbow, plus more potential damage (added just for fun).shadow meld: a game lacking player held stealth counters, gives the most stealth oriented class, an anti reveal skill!!! oh anet stop it please, stop it now too many smart decisions at once

Also i don't want it erased because of damage, if not because it brings boring gameplay into the table, like most of pof specs, and it goes in a completely different direction from the core class and previous spec, like if a new team of devs took over after hot, and the people behind hot specs were fired. Think about it

-thief the most mobile class in game, our beloved "ninja", went from a martial artist with tons of jumps and mobility into a freaking sniper!!! our speciality? kneel!!! ANET kitten-combat mechanic is stupid, at first you had to stay in stealth until reaching full malice, throw him whatever and instakill, having some trouble? dodge and run, later they went with the old classic hit and run, hit, stealth, repeat, no combos, no quick thinking, just repetition

"some DE builds are fun and rewarding to play."Name some, i wouldn't call rewarding any rifle build, because stealth on dodge is like playing in easy mode, but surprise me, i would try them allThe amount of fun you get from a build changes for each player, only build i had some fun is one shot malicious backstab, but i run it only for the laughs and to get easy wins in pvpBut i feel it will never be as fun as daredevil or core, the whole game got pretty boring to me since hot release, i feel classes now are really simple and overperform, too many passive effects, and trait synergy it's insane

"Feel free to delete your DE if you don't like it"Well... thief was my first character, and ive been playing gw2 for the last 5 years, i don't main DE at all, it's just another meme build i can use to abuse a bit and have some fun, so i think i won't be deleting it in the near future, but thanks for the advice

I gotta apologize for the attitude, I still mostly disagree but you're right about perspective, I mostly stealth for boon steal and dr. I don't feel like Malicious BS has been ruining anyone's day for awhile but it can get kind of stupid depending on the other builds needed for where you're at. I can pack enough around BS already anyway, I'd rather have a stack of weakness or something and some kind of super speed for a bit after opening myself up.

I got one shot by a malicious backstab this morning while capping a sentry, and it's the first one in weeks. Mounts make malicious backstab a hassle tbh, I'm surprised people still bother with it.

@kraai.7265 I gather that you don't enjoy DE. I don't enjoy daredevil in its current state, so I don't play it. I'd offer the same advice to you, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it automatically needs changing. DE does play completely differently from regular thief. That was the entire point of elite specs tho, daredevil was just acro 2.0, no real variation in roles or playstyle. I actually think that deadeye does its job rather well in that respect, and if it's not for you, that's cool. Doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.

As for the damage, there's at least two other classes that can hit for 18k with one hit/skill/combo from stealth. Possibly three. If you discount stealth, then most classes can burst for that much if they build for it. Most of these combos are easy to avoid if you're mounted or paying the least amount of attention. And if they get the drop on you, there's nothing you could do anyways, so don't sweat it.

If you really want to stop cheesy DE one shots, make assassin's signet an elite skill. Like soulbeast and sic 'em, it's the main reason malicious backstab hits as hard as it does on low malice, and it's the only way to nerf 18k low malice backstabs without nerfing base backstab damage on core and DD. Full malice backstabs are supposed to hurt so they don't need touching, but it's not a one shot at that point, and 10-12k damage instantly is still a big chunk of damage. Making it compete with daggerstorm and shadow meld forces a trade-off which creates meaningful build choices, which is healthy for the class in general. Problem solved.

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@loutremolle.6578 said:It's just to know if I'm the only one, to find that the virtually perma stealth of thieves is completely stupid. In fight we almost never see the enemy, it does not need to be good in general they are not. There should be a time between 2 stealth ...

yea am mad but i find that really stupid

to quote Anet, Thief is balanced around stealth. so yeah they gonna stealth alot. they forced to

also.

  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.
  2. thief has 3 secound reveal time between end of stealth and returning to stealth. they can buff this reveal time with toughness or power.
  3. thief has laughably little hp, no stability, crap condition removal(relying on being in stealth to remove most dmg conditions), and stun breaks are limited.
  4. thief AoE is limited
  5. thief has the WORST downed skills. wont help in WvW or PvE.

tldr; thief doesnt have better range, they not easy to stealth due to reveal, reveal skills(which break stealth), lack of defense vs CC knockbacks, stuns, daze, knockdowns,

and even in stealth, you can hit with normal attacks, just swing at where you think thief is, if animation plays, you hit them. so keep swinging. AoE spam em.

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@Turk.5460 said:

  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.

On flat ground, the max distance is 1875. This has been tested and proven multiple times. The distance can reach 2200 from slight elevation I believe.

you mean for longbow? i thought we tested that to 2000. damn....want to play ranger all of a sudden xD

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@arenta.2953 said:

  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.

On flat ground, the max distance is 1875. This has been tested and proven multiple times. The distance can reach 2200 from slight elevation I believe.

you mean for longbow? i thought we tested that to 2000. kitten....want to play ranger all of a sudden xD

Yeah for the Ranger Longbow. The video @"AikijinX.6258" made is definitely the most straightforward and irrefutable proof:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y3PV577bSxRL_lw-Wxq41_3EbtTK87IU/view

But there's been plenty other videos, yet ANET still hasn't addressed it, which is unfortunate. Here's a more recent one from @"len.7809" testing on a golem:

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@"kraai.7265" said:Loool, i just clearly typed, the only reveal i have trouble against is rev's all the others you posted i've never had trouble with."But you didn't cast it, you just wasted your dodge roll." kitten did you want to say with this? are you imagining my duels in your head?... i didn't know gw forums became a roleplaying game....I am saying that you clearly don't play thief or at least not as much as you are claiming to. Of course I could be wrong but you are doing a damn bad job persuading me.

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Most of the people complaining it doesn't matter what class you are playing if you are stealthed or not its not the class that killed you its the player. Most of these players complaining can be killed easily by a boon guard in all minstrel. The biggest thing I notice is when they get ressed that their stats are so low they couldn't possibly wearing any armor or trinkets. I used to hear people out on the subject but its like beating a dead horse because the dead horse had more armor.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@kraai.7265 said:DE can use sword pistol 5+2 combo, swap to rifle, dodge, and repeat, and boom, perma stealth with no interupts or counters, if you get revealed you can use stealth ult, that cancels revealed effect.Also if you use rifle 5, then 4 to pull a smoke curtain, you can use dagger 2 like 4 times, add a rifle dodge and you can stealth 5 extra seconds, enough to move freely only using this combo once in a while instead of all the time.Yet anet doesn't know this is a thing, maybe a dev likes stealth a lot...

Um infiltrator strike and ps5 give stealth? U mean dagger? Also cuz ini that combo does not grant perma stealth as u run outa ini way before and it regenerates to slow, u need stealth utilities etc. And SA trait for extended stealth which all means sacrificing other utilities and a better traitline. U dont need SA line but it's annoying without. U guys need to stop making it seem like perma is a few clicks for perma lol

Hi you are right, i forgot to mention you need shadow arts in order to do that but you don't need any other utility with this build.the two rotations i know areblack powder+heartseeker(x3)+rifle dodge and repeatkneel+sniper's cover(rifle 4 while kneeling)+heartseeker(x4)+rifle dodge and repeat, this combo gives way more stealth so you can move more freely between rotations or stack several times for higher uptime.Btw well executed this rotations give 100% stealth uptime, the only thing i do is spam this rotations, if i use the second one i repeat it several times until i get +10 stealth uptime, look for my target activate assassin's signet, steal, precast malicious bullshtab use infiltrator's signet and boom, no less than a 17k hp malicious backstab right in their face. Then i swap to rifle dodge and start all over. In pvp ive been camping far nodes for entire games, just doing that.

Also i wrote sword pistol and i meant dagger pistol, srry bout that.

Regarding counterplay, it's true we don't have enough reveals on each class, most of them don't even have a reveal at all, i wish they could make it so if you get hit while in stealth you get insta revealed too, but they only way people countered me using this is standing in my black powder or spamming hard aoe cc, so i can't spam heartseeker, or i hit them accidentaly and get revealed, the only problem i find is i can still swap to rifle, dodge, use shadow meld to lose revealed effect or withraw, with concealed restoration (shadow arts first trait) and stay in stealth long enough until i reach max iniciative to start my rotations again.

The other thing i hate, is that even if you sacrifice utility from acrobatics/deadly arts/trickery, the damage you get between DE and critical strikes is enough to land pretty easy 18k malicious backstabs maybe more if you get some might stacks somehow. Plus you don't have to waste offensive skills in order to mantain stealth uptime and the survability it gives surpases any other sort of sustain utility or skills you can bring to the table on other builds.

Even tho i use the build and enjoy one shotting players, it's completely broken and unfair and i would love it to be erased from game, same as DE, one of the most stupid spec concepts out there. To even think rangers don't have rifles and thiefs do... how stupid someone can be. And stealth on dodges my god...

hi!

"The people you're killing with that build are the people who post threads in this forum claiming perma stealth theives are killing the game. Against normal to good players, it's a joke build and you're better off going core or Drd"

Love how some people asume things they don't even know and out of nowhere, at least ask for some basic info beforehand, like idk my pvp rank or wvw level.In pvp i try to avoid duels and only plus fights, most die so quickly i can't measure how skilled they are(18k malicious backstab from stealth), yet i play in plat 2 if that helps.In wvw, it gets even better with foods and other buffs.

"but when taking into account match mechanics, especially in wvw, it does get a little ridiculous and the stealth duration does need to get broken up somehow or make a stealth duration stack disable the ability to use stealth skills if stacked above 4 seconds or something. "

I actually like your idea, that or maybe 1 sec reveal in each class autoattack

DE is fine, suggesting it needs to be taken out of the game is just stupid as it's not overpowered and

DE is not fine at all.malicious backstab is not fine at all, a 18k hp hit, in one single skill that you can cast while in stealth..100% stealth uptime so you can disengage any fight, or hide in towers and keeps for ever.stealth on dodge.thief's rifle has more range than a rangers longbow, plus more potential damage (added just for fun).shadow meld: a game lacking player held stealth counters, gives the most stealth oriented class, an anti reveal skill!!! oh anet stop it please, stop it now too many smart decisions at once

Also i don't want it erased because of damage, if not because it brings boring gameplay into the table, like most of pof specs, and it goes in a completely different direction from the core class and previous spec, like if a new team of devs took over after hot, and the people behind hot specs were fired. Think about it

-thief the most mobile class in game, our beloved "ninja", went from a martial artist with tons of jumps and mobility into a freaking sniper!!! our speciality? kneel!!! ANET kitten-combat mechanic is stupid, at first you had to stay in stealth until reaching full malice, throw him whatever and instakill, having some trouble? dodge and run, later they went with the old classic hit and run, hit, stealth, repeat, no combos, no quick thinking, just repetition

"some DE builds are fun and rewarding to play."Name some, i wouldn't call rewarding any rifle build, because stealth on dodge is like playing in easy mode, but surprise me, i would try them allThe amount of fun you get from a build changes for each player, only build i had some fun is one shot malicious backstab, but i run it only for the laughs and to get easy wins in pvpBut i feel it will never be as fun as daredevil or core, the whole game got pretty boring to me since hot release, i feel classes now are really simple and overperform, too many passive effects, and trait synergy it's insane

"Feel free to delete your DE if you don't like it"Well... thief was my first character, and ive been playing gw2 for the last 5 years, i don't main DE at all, it's just another meme build i can use to abuse a bit and have some fun, so i think i won't be deleting it in the near future, but thanks for the advice

I gotta apologize for the attitude, I still mostly disagree but you're right about perspective, I mostly stealth for boon steal and dr. I don't feel like Malicious BS has been ruining anyone's day for awhile but it can get kind of stupid depending on the other builds needed for where you're at. I can pack enough around BS already anyway, I'd rather have a stack of weakness or something and some kind of super speed for a bit after opening myself up.

I got one shot by a malicious backstab this morning while capping a sentry, and it's the first one in weeks. Mounts make malicious backstab a hassle tbh, I'm surprised people still bother with it.

@kraai.7265 I gather that you don't enjoy DE. I don't enjoy daredevil in its current state, so I don't play it. I'd offer the same advice to you, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it automatically needs changing. DE does play completely differently from regular thief. That was the entire point of elite specs tho, daredevil was just acro 2.0, no real variation in roles or playstyle. I actually think that deadeye does its job rather well in that respect, and if it's not for you, that's cool. Doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.

You have a fair point, what i hate is DE is not only boring to play as (imo) but it's also boring to play against, same with mirages, boonbeasts and holos, the spam, stupid mechanics and overperformance, plus every player in game reroling into one of this classes is making the whole experience boring and stale.The downgrade mechanic wise is notable.But you are right, i should stop playing DE, or the entire game. Not cry and argue in forums with friendly strangers.I think im moving full time into ESO.

As for the damage, there's at least two other classes that can hit for 18k with one hit/skill/combo from stealth. Possibly three. If you discount stealth, then most classes can burst for that much if they build for it. Most of these combos are easy to avoid if you're mounted or paying the least amount of attention. And if they get the drop on you, there's nothing you could do anyways, so don't sweat it.

If you really want to stop cheesy DE one shots, make assassin's signet an elite skill. Like soulbeast and sic 'em, it's the main reason malicious backstab hits as hard as it does on low malice, and it's the only way to nerf 18k low malice backstabs without nerfing base backstab damage on core and DD. Full malice backstabs are supposed to hurt so they don't need touching, but it's not a one shot at that point, and 10-12k damage instantly is still a big chunk of damage. Making it compete with daggerstorm and shadow meld forces a trade-off which creates meaningful build choices, which is healthy for the class in general. Problem solved.
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@arenta.2953 said:

@loutremolle.6578 said:It's just to know if I'm the only one, to find that the virtually perma stealth of thieves is completely stupid. In fight we almost never see the enemy, it does not need to be good in general they are not. There should be a time between 2 stealth ...

yea am mad but i find that really stupid

to quote Anet, Thief is balanced around stealth. so yeah they gonna stealth alot. they forced to

also.
  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.
  2. thief has 3 secound reveal time between end of stealth and returning to stealth. they can buff this reveal time with toughness or power.
  3. thief has laughably little hp, no stability, kitten condition removal(relying on being in stealth to remove most dmg conditions), and stun breaks are limited.
  4. thief AoE is limited
  5. thief has the WORST downed skills. wont help in WvW or PvE.

tldr; thief doesnt have better range, they not easy to stealth due to reveal, reveal skills(which break stealth), lack of defense vs CC knockbacks, stuns, daze, knockdowns,

and even in stealth, you can hit with normal attacks, just swing at where you think thief is, if animation plays, you hit them. so keep swinging. AoE spam em.

I can't belive you really defend a class which stealths after doding, wtf m8, really? i mean you get bursted by any class in game, you just dodge run away and use some stealth rotations. In less than a full minute you are back ooc full health, the enemy focusing you has lost your track...

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@kraai.7265 said:

@"loutremolle.6578" said:It's just to know if I'm the only one, to find that the virtually perma stealth of thieves is completely stupid. In fight we almost never see the enemy, it does not need to be good in general they are not. There should be a time between 2 stealth ...

yea am mad but i find that really stupid

to quote Anet, Thief is balanced around stealth. so yeah they gonna stealth alot. they forced to

also.
  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.
  2. thief has 3 secound reveal time between end of stealth and returning to stealth. they can buff this reveal time with toughness or power.
  3. thief has laughably little hp, no stability, kitten condition removal(relying on being in stealth to remove most dmg conditions), and stun breaks are limited.
  4. thief AoE is limited
  5. thief has the WORST downed skills. wont help in WvW or PvE.

tldr; thief doesnt have better range, they not easy to stealth due to reveal, reveal skills(which break stealth), lack of defense vs CC knockbacks, stuns, daze, knockdowns,

and even in stealth, you can hit with normal attacks, just swing at where you think thief is, if animation plays, you hit them. so keep swinging. AoE spam em.

I can't belive you really defend a class which stealths after doding, kitten m8, really? i mean you get bursted by any class in game, you just dodge run away and use some stealth rotations. In less than a full minute you are back ooc full health, the enemy focusing you has lost your track...

Go play the class maybe? Its clear you haven't. Pretty sure most glassy builds can just oneshot said thief.Observe:

Reason he's defending it is because its not any more broken than every other class.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87656/which-pof-profession-would-you-nerf#latest

Would you care to take a look at this community poll and inform me where DE is currently sitting in terms of votes?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87656/which-pof-profession-would-you-nerf#latest

Game balance has been down the drain since HoT. Sure in an ideal world dodging shouldn't stealth you, but its pretty low on the list of broken crap in this game.

Take my advice and play a holosmith, run rifle and the lockon trait in tools. Add some boon duration and done. No Holo should ever ever lose to a power thief/DE

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@Doug.4930 said:

@"loutremolle.6578" said:It's just to know if I'm the only one, to find that the virtually perma stealth of thieves is completely stupid. In fight we almost never see the enemy, it does not need to be good in general they are not. There should be a time between 2 stealth ...

yea am mad but i find that really stupid

to quote Anet, Thief is balanced around stealth. so yeah they gonna stealth alot. they forced to

also.
  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.
  2. thief has 3 secound reveal time between end of stealth and returning to stealth. they can buff this reveal time with toughness or power.
  3. thief has laughably little hp, no stability, kitten condition removal(relying on being in stealth to remove most dmg conditions), and stun breaks are limited.
  4. thief AoE is limited
  5. thief has the WORST downed skills. wont help in WvW or PvE.

tldr; thief doesnt have better range, they not easy to stealth due to reveal, reveal skills(which break stealth), lack of defense vs CC knockbacks, stuns, daze, knockdowns,

and even in stealth, you can hit with normal attacks, just swing at where you think thief is, if animation plays, you hit them. so keep swinging. AoE spam em.

I can't belive you really defend a class which stealths after doding, kitten m8, really? i mean you get bursted by any class in game, you just dodge run away and use some stealth rotations. In less than a full minute you are back ooc full health, the enemy focusing you has lost your track...

Go play the class maybe? Its clear you haven't. Pretty sure most glassy builds can just oneshot said thief.Observe:

Also it's fun you base your defence in a video of a very unskilled thief, you have lots of ways to get away of a ranger's burst, the guy had shadowstep, shadow meld, and that other stealth skill that even pushes backwars enemies off cd, could dodge with rifle to get stealth and instead of that he uses roll for initiative to get closer to the ranger like wtf....if you want to prove a point atleast show me a vid of decent player lmao

Reason he's defending it is because its not any more broken than every other class.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87656/which-pof-profession-would-you-nerf#latest

Would you care to take a look at this community poll and inform me where DE is currently sitting in terms of votes?

it's not about beeing overpowered, it's about beeing stupid mechanic wise, stealth on dodge, as stealth while stunned in mirages is so so stupid it gets really boring to play as a de or against one. Also this is my opinion im not talking about the whole playerbase

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87656/which-pof-profession-would-you-nerf#latest

Game balance has been down the drain since HoT. Sure in an ideal world dodging shouldn't stealth you, but its pretty low on the list of broken kitten in this game.

Take my advice and play a holosmith, run rifle and the lockon trait in tools. Add some boon duration and done. No Holo should ever ever lose to a power thief/DE

So you have trouble fighting another class? just rerol into something else so you can counter it, it doesn't matter if you actually enjoy your new class you are still winning!!!lool thats not how an mmoRPG should work at all.

Also btw my first character was a thief, and i've been playing gw2 for like 5 years, i even built a malicious backstab build too see how DE works, and it's so braindead and easy in pvp and wvw it's not even funny anymore.

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@kraai.7265 said:

it's not about beeing overpowered, it's about beeing stupid mechanic wise, stealth on dodge, as stealth while stunned in mirages is so so stupid it gets really boring to play as a de or against one. Also this is my opinion im not talking about the whole playerbase

My mistake, let me reiterate. If you don't enjoy how a class plays then, too bad.

So you have trouble fighting another class? just rerol into something else so you can counter it, it doesn't matter if you actually enjoy your new class you are still winning!!!lool thats not how an mmoRPG should work at all.

You're right, buts thats how it does work. Scourge counters boonbeast, DE counters scourge, Holo counters DE etc. I'm afraid this is how its been since HoT. But my point was made with the assumption that you thought stealth on dodge was OP, (which it sort of is but see previous reply)

Also btw my first character was a thief, and i've been playing gw2 for like 5 years, i even built a malicious backstab build too see how DE works, and it's so braindead and easy in pvp and wvw it's not even funny anymore.

There's more to DE than cheesy 1 shot back stab builds. Just like their's more to ranger than cheese sicum rapid fire builds, and so on. I would love for those cheesy 1 shot builds to be buried too, but to punish all other builds doesn't seem fair.

Changes should be made predominately for balance purposes. Not because you don't like certain classes.

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@kraai.7265 said:

@loutremolle.6578 said:It's just to know if I'm the only one, to find that the virtually perma stealth of thieves is completely stupid. In fight we almost never see the enemy, it does not need to be good in general they are not. There should be a time between 2 stealth ...

yea am mad but i find that really stupid

to quote Anet, Thief is balanced around stealth. so yeah they gonna stealth alot. they forced to

also.
  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.
  2. thief has 3 secound reveal time between end of stealth and returning to stealth. they can buff this reveal time with toughness or power.
  3. thief has laughably little hp, no stability, kitten condition removal(relying on being in stealth to remove most dmg conditions), and stun breaks are limited.
  4. thief AoE is limited
  5. thief has the WORST downed skills. wont help in WvW or PvE.

tldr; thief doesnt have better range, they not easy to stealth due to reveal, reveal skills(which break stealth), lack of defense vs CC knockbacks, stuns, daze, knockdowns,

and even in stealth, you can hit with normal attacks, just swing at where you think thief is, if animation plays, you hit them. so keep swinging. AoE spam em.

I can't belive you really defend a class which stealths after doding, kitten m8, really? i mean you get bursted by any class in game, you just dodge run away and use some stealth rotations. In less than a full minute you are back ooc full health, the enemy focusing you has lost your track...

Learn to counter ? We have Reveals ingame and an absurd amount of Projectile hate. Being it Reflects or Blocks. Then you have Aoe spamming,and rangers etc and lets not pretend everyone runs alone because you dont,people always have backup and fb's/ele's/holos to carry you aswell with their absurd amount of constant prot/stabi/aegis/reflect sharing and pooping out heals left and right while being able to shut De's down due to the amount of projectile hate. It can be countered in Numerous ways. Besides we have 2 items ingame to use that will reveal them for 30 seconds,sentrys and towers with radars will reveal them aswell and an entire north area dedicated to revealing on desert bl, what more do you people want. And knowing they use dodge for stealth you could also realize that dodges are being wasted alot of times to gain stealth instead of dodging damage,maybe make use of that fact, or do you think they have an unlimited amount of dodges aswell ?

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@loutremolle.6578 said:It's just to know if I'm the only one, to find that the virtually perma stealth of thieves is completely stupid. In fight we almost never see the enemy, it does not need to be good in general they are not. There should be a time between 2 stealth ...

yea am mad but i find that really stupid

to quote Anet, Thief is balanced around stealth. so yeah they gonna stealth alot. they forced to

also.
  1. Ranger rifle has 1500 range. Ranger longbow has 1500 PLUS falloff range. for a max of 1800-2000 if you higher up.
  2. thief has 3 secound reveal time between end of stealth and returning to stealth. they can buff this reveal time with toughness or power.
  3. thief has laughably little hp, no stability, kitten condition removal(relying on being in stealth to remove most dmg conditions), and stun breaks are limited.
  4. thief AoE is limited
  5. thief has the WORST downed skills. wont help in WvW or PvE.

tldr; thief doesnt have better range, they not easy to stealth due to reveal, reveal skills(which break stealth), lack of defense vs CC knockbacks, stuns, daze, knockdowns,

and even in stealth, you can hit with normal attacks, just swing at where you think thief is, if animation plays, you hit them. so keep swinging. AoE spam em.

I can't belive you really defend a class which stealths after doding, kitten m8, really? i mean you get bursted by any class in game, you just dodge run away and use some stealth rotations. In less than a full minute you are back ooc full health, the enemy focusing you has lost your track...

Learn to counter ? We have Reveals ingame and an absurd amount of Projectile hate. Being it Reflects or Blocks. Then you have Aoe spamming,and rangers etc and lets not pretend everyone runs alone because you dont,people always have backup and fb's/ele's/holos to carry you aswell with their absurd amount of constant prot/stabi/aegis/reflect sharing and pooping out heals left and right while being able to shut De's down due to the amount of projectile hate. It can be countered in Numerous ways. Besides we have 2 items ingame to use that will reveal them for 30 seconds,sentrys and towers with radars will reveal them aswell and an entire north area dedicated to revealing on desert bl, what more do you people want. And knowing they use dodge for stealth you could also realize that dodges are being wasted alot of times to gain stealth instead of dodging damage,maybe make use of that fact, or do you think they have an unlimited amount of dodges aswell ?

between rifle, shadow meld and dodges they can stay in stealth for ever, i use a build like that to troll in pvp all the time, they never see me coming until the 18k malicious backstab hits, also, yes we have reveals... some of us, i personally main mesmer and i don't have any, but then again, thieves can stealth on dodge, dodge bar regenerates way faster than any cd of any revealing skill, so even if you manage to reveal them 3 times in a row, so they waste both shadow meld casts, they are already at full vigor again ready to dodge, and btw, for a thief using perma stealth build, it only takes one dodge with rifle for me to get away, after the first dodge if you dont reveal me, you won't see me again for a while, as long as i want to actually, and if you do reveal me i have shadow meld so fuck it

and fyi it doesn't count as a counter to bring friends with you, if you do then you wouldn't be the one who is countering anything, and if your idea of balance is that to counter a stupid thief you have to be with friends then what you are saying is ridiculous.

Also i run alone almost all the time, even in pvp i try to rotate looking for 1v1, not everyone wants to be carried all around by fb or holos.... that comment was plain stupid, it may be YOUR playstyle not mine.

again tell me it's balanced taking in account those facts.

stealth on dodge, and beeing able to dodge while stunned or snared were the most stupid decisions anet made class desing wise, it's time for them to realize it, and for lame players abusing those mechanics and some others... like holo... to stop making excuses. I've been playing long enough to know whats broken from whats not, and im not talking dmg wise, even tho a 18k backstab is unbelivable, im talking about mechanics.

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