Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Make Scrapper Great (MSG)


Recommended Posts


Howdy all! After several patches of weirdness surrounding scrapper, I wanted to focus on how traits can make or break scrapper. In this post, I will outline a vision for Scrapper traits that I hope will have the following impacts:

  • Make Scrapper a viable healer in PvE
  • Make Scrapper a viable DPS option in all game modes
  • Make Scrapper a good tank in all game modes.

Without further ado...

Making Function Gyro Actually Function

Both past and present implementations of function gyro have been extremely lackluster. It has never truly felt like an "elite mechanic" in the figurative or literal sense. No more!

The following is what I envision for the baseline gyro. This is the gyro unmodified by traits:

  • Instant Cast, PBAoE with 600 radius, 20s cooldown
  • Function Gyro can spawn a maximum of 4 smaller function gyros that will rez or stomp within the PBAoE
  • Each Function gyro spawned increases the cooldown of the function gyro skill by 10s each
  • Each Function gyro has 5000 health and 10 seconds of fuel

I think that ANet almost had the right idea when they changed function gyro to its current implementation. The problem is that it's super clunky and really bad. By making it a PBAoE and instant cast with a decent radius, this removes the vast majority of problems with it. By also giving the spawned function gyros some decent health, they are also able to do their job.

Core Engi Traits

This is a single change for the purpose of making scrapper's design integrate better with core engineer traits. This change will make context in light of some of the other changes.

  • Medical Dispersion Field (MDF). In addition to its previous effects, MDF now also shares 50% of barrier generated with allies.

Minor Scrapper Traits

In general, I think these are in a good place. The only one needing change is impact savant.

  • Minor Adept: Remains as-is
  • Minor Master: Remains as-is
  • Minor Grandmaster: Impact Savant now grants 10% percent of power damage, condi damage, and outgoing healing as barrier.

The reason I dropped the percentage down to 10% is to accommodate for the fact that adding condi damage and outgoing healing greatly increases the potential amount of barrier than can be generated, especially if you run a celestial build. If we also account for the bonus of medical dispersion field, an outgoing heal of 20k from the scrapper will provide 2k barrier back, and 1k barrier to nearby allies. This prevents absurd amounts of barrier being generated from healing while also making healing builds stronger.

Adept Traits

Adept traits should lean into function gyro as a concept and improve its utility. To that end, the following changes to adept traits should lean into the "holy trinity" archetypes commonly seen in other MMOs. Here we also see tradeoffs in action -- do you use function gyro to rez/stomp and enhance combat abilities? Or do you use it without rezzing/stomping in order to use it more frequently? The choice is yours, but use it wisely.

  • Helper Gyro: In addition to baseline function gyro changes, the helper function gyro increases the radius of all well abilities (including function gyro) by 300. Function gyro grants allies within range 10 seconds of regeneration, 5 seconds of protection, and 3 seconds of frost aura. Additional summoned gyros increase the duration of regeneration, protection, and frost aura by 2s each.
  • Utility Gyro: In addition to baseline function gyro changes, function gyro grants allies within range 2 stacks of stability for 6 seconds, 3 seconds of alacrity, and 3 seconds of superspeed. Additional summoned gyros increase the superspeed and alacrity duration by 1s each.
  • Pain Gyro: In addition to baseline function gyro changes, function gyro grants allies within range 5 might for 10 seconds, retaliation for 10 seconds, and quickness for 3 seconds. Additional summoned gyros add 1 might and increase quickness for 0.5 seconds per each.

Master Traits

Master traits should improve the scrapper him/herself, and once again, emphasize the Holy Trinity roles. These traits will be relatively simple, straightforward buffs.

  • Adaptive Armor: Outgoing and incoming barriers are 25% stronger. Reduce incoming condition damage on yourself while you have barrier (20%). Healing Power increased by +100
  • Damage Dampener: 33% of all power damage you receive is delivered after a delay, with 25% damage reduction (stacks multiplicatively with protection). Toughness increased by +100
  • Object in Motion: All weapon damage increased by 10%, hammer gains an additional 10% damage, attack speed all weapons increased by 10%, and hammer cooldowns reduced by 10%. Power increased by +100.

Grandmaster Traits

Grandmaster traits should emphasize the synthesis of Scrapper and gyros. Consider it... "calibration."

  • Pastor of Muppets: All wells have reduced cooldowns, and provide 3 seconds of superspeed when activated.
  • Kinetic Stabilizers: Gain 3 seconds of stability and 3 seconds of protection when using a well ability.
  • Applied Force: In addition to its previous effects, gain 4 might for 6 seconds when using a well ability

Final Thoughts

  • There are a few other things ANet needs to do to really make some of this stick. For one, bulwark gyro needs to properly function as a damage mitigator. It's buggy as heck.
  • I'd also recommend making non-damage gyros have 10-target functionality so that they're useful in raids
  • Numbers adjustments could be made to all the above traits in case some combinations prove excessive.

Well, that's about all folks. Thanks for sticking through this thread with me. I want to see scrapper viable in all game modes, and my hope is that these changes would accomplish that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@rdigeri.7935 said:It seems a bit too centered around gyros, but i can appreciate any scrapper thread.

Seems only right. I'm trying to emphasize scrapper's central skills and mechanic.

Somewhat difficult to follow the logic, but it looks ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the problem with making a specializations roles viable in all modes is that its a balance nightmare. I don't think its a good idea. each spec should do one or two things well.

function gyros should be invuln, so they can... function. make the skill a channel. reduce radius to 300 or 360.

mdf - uhh no lol. that would be op to the extreme, especially with sanctuary runes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the suggestions look good. Object in Motion would enrage a couple of people. The total amount of multipliers we have access to and the outgoing damage of the hammer would still be hilariously low compared any other dps configuration of other classes, but for certain people every multiplier Engineer can access is already one too many.

It does not matter if some of the ideas are a bit ambitious. If they read the forums, they shall see our thoughts and opinions gain some inspiration from it. They never copy our ideas 1:1 and they usually cross enough aspects anyway.

Nice job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:mdf - uhh no lol. that would be op to the extreme, especially with sanctuary runes.

Not particularly. I tried to incorporate several % reductions in order to mitigate absurd barrier generation scenarios. So if you receive a 20k heal with sanctuary (that is a massive heal btw), you would get 4k barrier from sanctuary rune, which would spread to allies at 2k. So an absurd incoming heal turns into a slight barrier boost for allies. That does not seem OP to me, given that if you're running MDF and sanctuary rune, you're probably on a healer build.

Now obviously I can't predict WvW behavior because zergs can be massive, but it doesn't seem to approach OP levels if you consider max target restrictions.

@Chaith.8256 said:I like all the ideas, numbers aside. One change as others have stated is to at least make one non-well focused GM major trait. Ideally 2. They should be either quite strong in general or quite recognizable as THE trait to power up a utility family

Appreciated. I'm not good with the actual numbers (formulas gehhhh), so there'd have to be some fine tuning in those regards.

What do you think might make better GM traits? I'm curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Now obviously I can't predict WvW behavior because zergs can be massive, but it doesn't seem to approach OP levels if you consider max target restrictions.

it would be broken in wvw. if you watch some scrapper vids on youtube with their arcdps up you will see how much heals mdf gives. its a ton.

I think in that case it would be appropriate to split the trait specifically for WvW to be 25% instead of 50%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vagrant.7206 said:What do you think might make better GM traits? I'm curious.

Personally I think it's not necessary to fix some things that aren't obviously broken:

  • System Shocker could really use a re-work. This is the only adept tier that really necessitates a change, instead of a big buff to all the adepts. Lightning Field effectiveness increase has no real application in GW2 as far as the eyes can see. Adding a .5s daze when you use Function Gyro on active enemies, (less commonly), is really F tier when compared to Gyroscopic Acceleration and Mass Momentum.
  • Damage Dampener, which I love your suggestion. The toughness gain is more of a bloat than added flavor though.
  • Expert Examination replacement, which I love your suggestion. Having Adaptive Armor here is way better, right now its not deserving of a Grandmaster Major trait. The healing gain is more of a bloat than added flavor, again.

To answer your question, for GM traits I would:

  • Leave Applied Force alone, without additional might gain on wells.
  • Kinetic Stabilizers needs tweaking, Scrapper is not equipped with reliable and plentiful disables like Thief/Mesmer. I don't like that this trait gives Super Speed on disable, because you already get 5s Super speed when you use a Leap Combo in a lightning Field from Speed of Synergy... if you land that daze with Kinetic Stabilizers equipped, it overwrites a 5s superspeed with a 3s one... useless at best in that common scenario of using a disable as Scrapper. I like your suggestion to give Protection instead of Super Speed, but for now keep it tied to disabling an enemy.
  • Your Pastor of Muppets trait synergizes/overlaps too much with Gyroscopic Acceleration. Honestly, any Gyro Grandmaster major trait might overlap too much with Gyroscopic Acceleration - I would suggest a supporty trait here instead.

Edit: As a side note, I think that your updated Object In Motion is simply too bloated/overpowered. Instead of a numbers increase, a better offensive Scrapper trait we need would be to increase the reach, or lock down, or gap closing potential on Hammer abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the way that traits are now for the Scrapper for the most part. But there are a few of your suggestions that I do like, one of which I will tweak from what I thought about. First, the suggestions I liked:

  • Getting rid of Expert Examination and replacing it with Adaptive Armor
  • Replacing the Grandmaster spot where AA used to be with something new
  • Damage Dampener changes

Now here's where the tweaks come in.For Damage Dampener, add a health gain per second. Keep it at 20% reduced damage, and that damage coming back to you 2s afterward, but now you gain a stack of "Damage Dampener" which heals you for an amount based on stacks, stacks capped at 2. Health regenerated per stack = 100. Unaffected by healing power.This could help Engineers move away from the Alchemy trait line entirely if they so wish, or they can choose to stay in it and have some nice synergy with Backpack Regenerator, especially on a more support style build. All in all, this new Damage Dampener would provide a more defensive means through self healing to mitigate and take damage.

The new Grandmaster Major slot would be replaced with Fortified Well-Being: gain Protection when using a well. Protection gained would last 2s, or 3s if 2s is not long enough (just trying to consider the CD of some wells). This trait would directly benefit wells, while also being defensive in nature, as is the first trait in the Adept tier (SS when using wells used to either kite, or stick to targets to benefit from Impact Savant).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Create New...