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Upcoming Balance Notes - 10/1/2019


Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

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@Zetsuei.8942 said:As others have said I really don't understand the shade change. We're the only profession who has to choose if we want to be strong at range or strong at melee, while being weaker to one of those as a trade off. No other profession has restrictions like this. This also makes for yet another clunky mechanic being attached to Scourge. If shades are such a problem I would rather see something else, not making the class horrible to play. Also lets not forget Scourge F1 abilities already have a invisible 0.25 cast time. Now we have to dance on our shades AND have a cast time on those abilities.

I always welcome balance changes but you're about to make Scourge one of he most unfun, frustrating classes to play and its not because of nerfs, just horrible restrictions being added.

Scourge was fun to play but It is never doing good for the WvW game mode at all since launch. Shade is always a problem. It controls too much space and provides both offensive and defensive ability at the same time.

I talked to a lot of WvW veteran about the Shade change and they all said that this is a good direction for scourge in wvw but it's still not in the perfect place, which i agree.I also think that a lot of scourge main need to look wider to see what's good for the overall gameplay not just focus 'How fun scourge is'.

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@Dixie Cougar.2415 said:Scourge already suffers in spvp from the current power burst meta. No idea why a nerf would be warranted there.

Every classes have their own role and a perfect place to play right. If scourge isnt good in pvp this patch, then people should adapt and change their playstyle. Necro has 3 different specs to play and none of them is bad. Only if scourge was good, it doesnt mean it has to be that good forever.

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@fewfield.7802 said:

@Dixie Cougar.2415 said:Scourge already suffers in spvp from the current power burst meta. No idea why a nerf would be warranted there.

Every classes have their own role and a perfect place to play right. If scourge isnt good in pvp this patch, then people should adapt and change their playstyle. Necro has 3 different specs to play and none of them is bad. Only if scourge was good, it doesnt mean it has to be that good forever.

Lol as a necro main. All specs are utter trash now. Thanks anet.

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When ANET will really fix thief and really add a correct balance to this class.My proposal is this for WVW.

Stealth - Duration UNLIMITED with resitance to everything :p .when press auto attack, kill an entire ZERG with 1 shot only and continue in stealth, so the ZERG don't know who kill them.This is what ANET should do to balance this class

i don´t play with a thief, but this class is really annoying, it has mobility, range, stealth, cc brakes, everything combined this is just an OP or i´m wrong?

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I have a whole lot to say about the death magic changes. I feel it's an interesting start but there is just a whole host of things I want to address here that I just can't here. Expect a hot take on these changes Friday.

All the good and the bad. And believe me, there is a lot of both.

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@Zeferino.3056 said:When ANET will really fix thief and really add a correct balance to this class.My proposal is this for WVW.

Stealth - Duration UNLIMITED with resitance to everything :p .when press auto attack, kill an entire ZERG with 1 shot only and continue in stealth, so the ZERG don't know who kill them.This is what ANET should do to balance this class

i don´t play with a thief, but this class is really annoying, it has mobility, range, stealth, cc brakes, everything combined this is just an OP or i´m wrong?

Answer; until they have new balance team

Until than, the 'balance' once again is a joke and has done absolutely nothing to encourage healthy competitive changes amongst all the professions.

-so the population will continue to drop because our concerns continue to not matter-

-You know where to find us and Good Luck!! to those who believe after 8 years including this next upcoming 'balance'' patch that you matter as well?? Good Luck to you as well.

Why so serious? After 8 years, hoping all these 'balance' patches were for our good intentions

Please!!

After having 8 years of neglect and being ridiculed in their latest live streaming...

The writings are all written over the wall, the joke is on us. We are nothing to them and they will continue to do what they want.

Nothing we say for them to see us as caring and important will ever chnange.

The choice is yours, continue being taken advantage of? or to wake up?

To healthy competitive games? or to continual non healthy non competitive gaming?.

To be valued and cared for? or to finally do something about it for good?

Good Luck!!

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:eleImbued Melodies is being removed—we felt it wasn't very interestingthis is really bad. an auto proc reflect was the one thing holding up staff tempest in a number of scenarios.Transcendent Tempestthis looks like kitten. I am very disappointed that a reflect is being replaced with this, equally uninteresting trait.

engigood scrapper changes, still not enough holo nerfs. you guys need to reduce the amount of vigor + quickness holo can get, and increase holo leap cd. seriously, a 600 range leap on a 2 sec cd is ludicrous and beyond my understanding as to why it still exists.

guardok, stoic demeanor buff cool.

mesmerok. chrono needs invuln clones or something to be viable.

necrodeath magic rework looks cool, sand savant granting 10 targets and shade skills being tied to the shade is going to be catastrophic. tons of people are saying it. don't do it, or I swear to god you guys will lose what tiny amount of faith people have in your balancing skills. a decent middle ground imo is to have sand savant only grant 10 targets to support and barrier traits.

ranger1 hand sword changes make no sense, gs changes look good. soulbeast burst and stacking dmg mods still untouched. inspiring reinforcement still doubles whatever might the ranger has. this should have been fixed a long time ago.

revok.

teefok. cloaked in shadow is garbage and should be changed to something else.

warI don't know what to say. power creeping tactics to unholy hell and making warhorn op sounds cool I guess...btw what in the nine hells is this:Martial Cadence: This new trait causes Soldier's Focus to reduce the warrior's equipped weapon skill cooldowns by 3 seconds.this is op powercreep trash, its only saving grace is how janky it is.

I think ha ning soldiers focus reduces cd by 3s, soldiers focus is regained every 15s. So not as bad as you think unless there are other ways to regain soldiers focus.

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The changes for the warrior mostly seem small an inconsequential except for this, which I'll talk about. I'm going to share thoughts from the viewpoint of a WvW zergling and fractals.

Tactics: The Tactics line has been reworked. Several traits in this line now revolve around a new effect called Soldier's Focus, which grants bonuses when executing bursts.Minor:Marching Orders: This new trait grants the Soldier's Focus effect every 15 seconds. This effect is expended when hitting with a burst to grant 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds to allies within a range of 300.Empowered: Moved from the adept tier. The effects are unchanged.Mending Might: This trait applies might to an ally and heals the warrior.Adept:Leg Specialist: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants a 7% damage bonus against foes suffering from a movement-impairing condition. The cooldown on this trait is now calculated per target.Soldier's Comfort: This new trait heals nearby allies when Soldier's Focus activates.Roaring Reveille: This new trait increases the number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon. It grants fury for Charge and resistance for Call to Arms. It also grants an additional 120 concentration.Master:Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.Shrug It Off: This trait has moved, and its icon has been updated. In addition to its previous effect, it also causes the warrior to heal allies when removing damaging conditions from them.Empower Allies: In addition to its previous effects, this trait also increases the radius of Soldier's Focus to 600. Added a missing number of targets skill fact.Grandmaster:Martial Cadence: This new trait causes Soldier's Focus to reduce the warrior's equipped weapon skill cooldowns by 3 seconds.Vigorous Shouts: This trait no longer grants adrenaline when using shouts. Instead, it grants healing power equal to 13% of power.Phalanx Strength: Increased might duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

The tactics traitline does not see use in WvW for the most part. And it mostly won't continue to do so: While the changes to healing and cleansing are interesting for WvW, there are other classes, that do this way better, even with these changes. I think Soldiers'c Comfort is mostly lost.Likewise Shrug it off, unless the healing is for some reason exceptional, probably will not cut it. Cleansing one condi every 25s on 5 targets in combiation with some (likely negligible) healing will not see this trait get used.

What might be interesting is the combination of Marching Order with Leg Specialist, Warrior's Cunning and Matial Cadence. I am not sure though, Tactics can actually compete against the Discipline traitline. The other traitlines must be spellbreaker and defense. Going without defense is just not doable in WvW in its current state, so the only competiton is discipline.And there are two absolute killer features in discipline: The additional movement speed helps bring down the bubble where it needs to be, and the fast weapon switching (combined with adrenaline generation / might generation on switching weapons), which make this a tough competition. I can possibly see the power refresh being of interest, but 3s every 15s (given you can even reliably use your burst skills) is probably not going to cut it either.The damage-stacking effects are nice (Leg specialist, warrior's cunning) - maybe something for a roaming build?

In Fractals the might generation and sharing mgiht be more interesting; the healing probably is still not relevant. However in fractals Warrior's Cunning is useless, shrug it off is not controlled enough to really play a role, which just leaves empower allies.Marching Orders, with its Soldier's Focus might be interesting, but only if the party isn't maxed out on might anyway. If it is, once more the Discipline traitline with its access to improved banners are a better choice; the advantage on using axes is very notable and once more that movement speed increase is so handy; once you've had it, you don't really wanna go without.

I think Discipline continues to outshine Tactics; while the changes are a move in the right direction some of the changes are not impactful enough to actually warrant a change in most situations for fractals and WvW. In order to actually provide meaningful choice, we'd need a way to get rid of either Defense in WvW zerg fights, or further changes to tactics and / or discipline, which IMO is the main competitor. YMMV.

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I've been maining Necro/Scourge for the last few years ..after I read this I literally removed all of his ascended stuff, scrapped all the parts for Legendary parts ..and I've bee thinking of deleting it ... I don't play WvW, so these nerfs literally deleted Necro in PvE

Thankfully Archeage Unchained is releasing soon so I have something to play until this is reverted.Necros have always been suffering in PvE (remember the group instakicking you in the old days) ...we're going back there ... soo close to uninstalling the game after 7 years :(

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Please reduce the Lich Form cooldown in PvE. By like 30 seconds, or even 10. Reason is in high-end fractal parties it's still on cooldown for last phases (ensolyss, arkk). If the party is slow enough it will be off cooldown, but if you have good team it feels like you're being punished and can't use the lich form for the last phase again.

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@nthmetal.9652 said:The changes for the warrior mostly seem small an inconsequential except for this, which I'll talk about. I'm going to share thoughts from the viewpoint of a WvW zergling and fractals.

Tactics: The Tactics line has been reworked. Several traits in this line now revolve around a new effect called Soldier's Focus, which grants bonuses when executing bursts.Minor:Marching Orders: This new trait grants the Soldier's Focus effect every 15 seconds. This effect is expended when hitting with a burst to grant 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds to allies within a range of 300.Empowered: Moved from the adept tier. The effects are unchanged.Mending Might: This trait applies might to an ally and heals the warrior.Adept:Leg Specialist: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants a 7% damage bonus against foes suffering from a movement-impairing condition. The cooldown on this trait is now calculated per target.Soldier's Comfort: This new trait heals nearby allies when Soldier's Focus activates.Roaring Reveille: This new trait increases the number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon. It grants fury for Charge and resistance for Call to Arms. It also grants an additional 120 concentration.Master:Warrior's Cunning: This new trait increases damage by 25% against foes with health above 90%. Additionally, it increases damage by 50% against foes that have barrier. These bonuses do not stack.Shrug It Off: This trait has moved, and its icon has been updated. In addition to its previous effect, it also causes the warrior to heal allies when removing damaging conditions from them.Empower Allies: In addition to its previous effects, this trait also increases the radius of Soldier's Focus to 600. Added a missing number of targets skill fact.Grandmaster:Martial Cadence: This new trait causes Soldier's Focus to reduce the warrior's equipped weapon skill cooldowns by 3 seconds.Vigorous Shouts: This trait no longer grants adrenaline when using shouts. Instead, it grants healing power equal to 13% of power.Phalanx Strength: Increased might duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

The tactics traitline does not see use in WvW for the most part. And it mostly won't continue to do so: While the changes to healing and cleansing are interesting for WvW, there are other classes, that do this way better, even with these changes. I think Soldiers'c Comfort is mostly lost.Likewise Shrug it off, unless the healing is for some reason exceptional, probably will not cut it. Cleansing one condi every 25s on 5 targets in combiation with some (likely negligible) healing will not see this trait get used.

What might be interesting is the combination of Marching Order with Leg Specialist, Warrior's Cunning and Matial Cadence. I am not sure though, Tactics can actually compete against the Discipline traitline. The other traitlines must be spellbreaker and defense. Going without defense is just not doable in WvW in its current state, so the only competiton is discipline.And there are two absolute killer features in discipline: The additional movement speed helps bring down the bubble where it needs to be, and the fast weapon switching (combined with adrenaline generation / might generation on switching weapons), which make this a tough competition. I can possibly see the power refresh being of interest, but 3s every 15s (given you can even reliably use your burst skills) is probably not going to cut it either.The damage-stacking effects are nice (Leg specialist, warrior's cunning) - maybe something for a roaming build?

In Fractals the might generation and sharing mgiht be more interesting; the healing probably is still not relevant. However in fractals Warrior's Cunning is useless, shrug it off is not controlled enough to really play a role, which just leaves empower allies.Marching Orders, with its Soldier's Focus might be interesting, but only if the party isn't maxed out on might anyway. If it is, once more the Discipline traitline with its access to improved banners are a better choice; the advantage on using axes is very notable and once more that movement speed increase is so handy; once you've had it, you don't really wanna go without.

I think Discipline continues to outshine Tactics; while the changes are a move in the right direction some of the changes are not impactful enough to actually warrant a change in most situations for fractals and WvW. In order to actually provide meaningful choice, we'd need a way to get rid of either Defense in WvW zerg fights, or further changes to tactics and / or discipline, which IMO is the main competitor. YMMV.

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs. Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

Anet, allow me to plea for the scrappers, undo their vitality nerf entirely and put toughness in it's stead. This will be too much for them otherwise.

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@"MethaneGas.8357" said:No one:

Anet: "Scourge: Shade skills no longer affect the area around the scourge while they have a shade present in the world. Increased the number of targets affected by shade skills from 3 to 5."

Literally NO ONE is okay with this change. But hey, maybe the aim IS to nerf Scourge to the ground, in which case this accomplishes that brilliantly.

Once more the split between people who play PvP and who don't lol Scourge didn't have a trade off before, now they do. It might also be a buff in many scenarios, like WvW, where longer duration and more targets hit can get pretty nasty. However, introducing a CHOICE when using skills (use it on myself or a shade) is a brilliant gameplay decision on its own. No longer do you eat the entire cake, you only get a good slice.

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How about tweaking skills like Maul from Ranger or GS f1 from warriors? Cuz just being invisible/immune ,while spamming all CCs until they get a hit on someone with +300Toughness+Protection, which results in an +20k Damage hit is pretty screwed up. (+ almost 0 cooldown on this One-hit skills)

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@XECOR.2814 said:

@Dixie Cougar.2415 said:Scourge already suffers in spvp from the current power burst meta. No idea why a nerf would be warranted there.

Every classes have their own role and a perfect place to play right. If scourge isnt good in pvp this patch, then people should adapt and change their playstyle. Necro has 3 different specs to play and none of them is bad. Only if scourge was good, it doesnt mean it has to be that good forever.

Lol as a necro main. All specs are utter trash now. Thanks anet.

I dont think it's about the specs. i have seen many good core necro and reaper doing well in rank match.I think it's something else that's trash :/

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs.

I doubt it, but we'll see. The healing and the cleansing is not really relevant, it won't be nearly enough to play a role. The reduced weapon swap on discipline triggers weapon swap sigils with ease and makes warrior very versatile (in addition to might / adrenaline generation). Stunning / stripping and then going to damage right away. But we'll see if Warrior's Cunning can compete here. I highly doubt it. Usually there are not that many warriors in a zerg and the changes IMO do not warrant a drastically increased number of warriors. Without it, 3 stacks of might every 15s (probably even longer, as getting down the burst skill exactly at the same time Soldier's Focus becomes available is going to be a challenge)... I doubt it will make a difference.Also there are other classes providing better / more might generation, and once you reached your 25 stacks of might, the additional might is simply lost.

Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

I agree on the core warrior boost. Finally core warrior has one more powerful and relevant damage modifier, at least for PvP / WvW. I disagree on the Spellbreaker, but will test it out definitely.

Berserkers can achieve some very nice damage modier stacking, combining the new Warrior's Cunning with Peak Performance and Bloody Roar and Berserker's Power. THis comes at the cost of survivability. I can already see one-shot-berserkers returning. And I don't think one-shot builds are a good idea.

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

The heal rider on Shrug it Off appears to be for any source of Condi cleanse. As far as raw DPS numbers this over Discipline when against anyone with barrier. Tactics warriors will be like shock troops to break the enemy Zerg blob with warrior's cunning. Marching orders will reduce CDs to help negate the need to weapon swap to begin with. I'd say that Tactics might outshine Discipline now in WvW, at least in zergs.

I doubt it, but we'll see. The healing and the cleansing is not really relevant, it won't be nearly enough to play a role. The reduced weapon swap triggers weapon swap sigils with ease and makes warrior very versatile. Stunning / stripping and then going to damage right away. But we'll see if Warrior's Cunning is used in that way. I highly doubt it. Usually there are not that many warriors in a zerg and the changes IMO do not warrant a drastically increased number of warriors. Without it, 3 stacks of might every 15s (probably even longer, as getting down the burst skill exactly at the same time Soldier's Focus becomes available is going to be a challenge)... I doubt it will make a difference.Also there are other classes providing better / more might generation, and once you reached your 25 stacks of might, the additional might is simply lost.

Core warriors certainly just got a large boost. Spellbreakers might take this over Defense or Discipline, same with Zerkers. Str, tactics, and zerk might very well end up the DPS of choice, and I can already see a bunker tactics, defense, zerker build happening. Shake it Off now has the potential to be a warriors best healing source... Poor scourges and scrappers you are all free kills now.

I agree on the core warrior boost. Finally core warrior has one more powerful and relevant damage modifier, at least for PvP / WvW. I disagree on the Spellbreaker, but will test it out definitely.

Berserkers can achieve some very nice damage modier stacking, combining the new Warrior's Cunning with Peak Performance and Bloody Roar and Berserker's Power. THis comes at the cost of survivability. I can already see one-shot-berserkers returning. And I don't think one-shot builds are a good idea.

It isn't weapon swap cd reduction it's weapon skills reduction. Hence why this is no where near what you are fearing it to be.

The healing from Condi cleanse indeed needs numbers attached to it before we get excited, but I'm thinking between 100 and 500 hp per Condi, which can be a large amount on Shake it Off. Coupled with tempest runes, Vigorous Shouts, and Rousing Resilience, you have a skill that can potentially heal for a great deal.

Portal bomb with a few tactics zerkers will be a way to break a Zerg now. We may be inbetween pirate ship and melee Zerg metas now.

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Do you guys even know that Scourge exists also in pvp and not just wvw zerg play? In Pvp it already gets decimated versus power bursts both melee and ranged and especially ranged. With the proposed changes to the Sand Shade mechanics and the usability of the F2345 the scourge is DEAD as soon as he places a shade! Anyone with a brain will just go up and melee their faces off as soon as they place a shade anywhere! Just walk up to the sucker and melee em good they cant fear someone off cleanse or shield themselves. If you camp your short lived shades you are asking to be cc'ed there aoe'ed there and swarmed there cuz you are dead without it and can even support anyone besides you.

You have effectively deleted scourge from pvp. This will have consequences on the meta and now bunker specs will have NO PROBLEMS EXISTING! fights will last longer and boons will be more than abundant. this void scourge leaves cant be filled by reaper and core.

Have you not learned from your catastrophe with Chronomancer? It is horrible you effectively removed it from competitive play! You do NOT BALANCE, you instead retire out of play until further notice! we have told you since day one scourge saw daylight to change Sand Savant where it was oppressive in WvW zerg play and so strong everywhere else. instead we have gone on a long crusade of nerfs to the class ranging from potency of effects, arm time and delayed activation even to supportive effects not just damage , nerf to torch skills, removal of corrupt on sand shade trait, dhuumfire cooldown nerf , path of corruption nerf , plague sending nerf, punishment skills nerfs, etc.how do you plan on compensating the class at this point where it could only defend it self with damage! This is horrible and mechanic tweeks like this does not change much. if you will go so far then you need to redesign the class and overhaul it completely not just retire it from competitive play like you did with Chronomancer, Druid, scrapper and Renegade.

Tl;dr: PvP Scourge: RemovedWvW Scourge: Buffed Range BombPvE Scourge: huge nerf on moving bosses plus cluncky af for a dps class

GG, we only asked you to nerf Sand Savant not butcher the class

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So the multiple threads I have posted regarding power creep seem to have fallen on deaf ears, with warriors getting a trait that increases their damage by 50% vs targets that are affected by barrier.

So this means scrappers, who is UNABLE to control when they apply barrier to themselves, will take permanent 50% damage from warriors in pvp and wvw. A scourge can at least see a warrior and decide not to press f3 and f5. A scrapper has no option for this; if you fight back, you take 50% more damage due to having a barrier on you that could potentially only be 100-200 barrier anyway.

Please don't do this.

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