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Thoughts on Elite Specs and their Future?


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So I'm sure the topic of Elite Specializations and adding more is thrown around a LOT and I can certainly understand why. An overhaul to a class that adds new mechanics, new traits, and in most regards a whole new playstyle to something we enjoy? Sign me up. However, the wait of getting something so grand (that wait being for a new expansion entirely) can be a bit disheartening if your class's current elite specs grow stale, just don't quite fit, or whatever other reason someone might have.

So, removing the complications that adding a new Elite Spec for each class brings to the table, which include but aren't limited to:-New Animations and Spell Effects-New Art and Armor/Weapon design-and most importantly, BALANCE

...How would you add Elite Specs into the game without the need of waiting for a whole new Expansion, yet still get that feeling of freshness to classes without total reworks of existing specs? Well, I've got a few ideas, but bare with me.

First: The Unlocking.It's easy to just stumble or spend extra hero points you get from leveling to unlock an elite spec, but as it stands the pool is limited to Central Tyria, PoF and HoT zones. There's certainly enough points from 100% map completion across all the previous expansions for a whole new spec, probably more, and that is certainly an option. Though what about something more accessible? Perhaps instead of just unlocking it right off the bat with excess Hero Points, maybe a short story mission event gets you the base unlock. A mission for Revenants to go into the Mists and get a new Legend. A trip for Engineers to drop by Rata Novas and learn the technical applications of a new weapon. Stuff like that. Alternatively, maybe a collection unlock for it? A new Living World map could offer the Elite Spec as a Mastery reward, with further collection unlocks for it in further Living World chapters?

Second: Upgrading it.This falls back the original issue of the need for Hero Points. Again, the use of excess Hero Points is an option. Which is fine! More reasons to encourage world completion. Though an alternative, maybe a map currency? Let's say the new Elite Specs are added at the beginning of a Living World Season. You've got oodles of Volatile Magic stocked up that you haven't spent, well, what about spending it on a limited number of hero point unlocks? Or maybe map achievements can give hero points cross-character (activating at max level as to avoid new characters unlocking all of their skills at level 1). Or, adding Hero Points to future Living World maps.

Third: Collections.One draw I've had with Elite Specs and playing them, is going through the zones and doing the little niche objectives to unlock their unique weapons and armor (Though making the Machine Weapons for the HoT Elite Spec weapons wasn't the most fun I will admit.) One way to get around this is just retroactively add objectives to old maps exclusively for the collections. Preferably stuff related to PoF core maps, but I can understand adding new stuff to those maps can be daunting. Alternatively there's Living World maps but not everyone has all the Seasons so that could be even more frustrating. So, perhaps instead the collections can be tied to both Central Tyria and PoF.

And, that's it. What are your thoughts or suggestions? What are some ways you'd like to see Elite Specs implemented, or alternatives to Elite specs that can feel just as satisfying to achieve? What are some of your own ideas for some new specs?

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Simply reaching level 80 is enough to unlock every core specialization, utility skill and traits with 0% map completion. 100% map completion can only get you to about 80% of one elite specialization meaning when you start getting hero points in either HoT or PoF zones you should have enough to unlock every elite specialization. For those who are lazy and just want to start unlocking the HoT and PoF elite specializations, they can just reach level 80, skip the Central Tyria hero points and jump straight to the HoT and PoF hero points. I'm fine with the way you unlock specializations as it is.

My thoughts on elite specializations is fairly mixed. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a profession having a different playstyle, but the problem comes from ArenaNet poorly thinking through that elite specialization and making it overall better than the core profession. A good example is holosmith. Before holosmith was created engineer was and to a certain degree still is the least played profession in the game. But ever since PoF, everyone started playing holosmith and nothing but holosmith. It is easy to play, doesn't require as much skill as core engineer and can accomplish more. Whether it's in PvE or PvP most people play holosmith because of the simplicity.

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@Hoodie.1045 said:Simply reaching level 80 is enough to unlock every core specialization, utility skill and traits with 0% map completion. 100% map completion can only get you to about 80% of one elite specialization meaning when you start getting hero points in either HoT or PoF zones you should have enough to unlock every elite specialization. For those who are lazy and just want to start unlocking the HoT and PoF elite specializations, they can just reach level 80, skip the Central Tyria hero points and jump straight to the HoT and PoF hero points. I'm fine with the way you unlock specializations as it is.

My thoughts on elite specializations is fairly mixed. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a profession having a different playstyle, but the problem comes from ArenaNet poorly thinking through that elite specialization and making it overall better than the core profession. A good example is holosmith. Before holosmith was created engineer was and to a certain degree still is the least played profession in the game. But ever since PoF, everyone started playing holosmith and nothing but holosmith. It is easy to play, doesn't require as much skill as core engineer and can accomplish more. Whether it's in PvE or PvP most people play holosmith because of the simplicity.

On the other hand, they seem to be unable to rebalance what they already have....not from lack of trying...just simply incapable. So, if the imbalance already persists...Why not add more variety...the game gets stale without new specs to play. Living world only brings ppl in for a week or two then they go back into hibernation.

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In my mind, a new set of elite specs is the healthiest thing they could do to the game.No game has perfect balance. This game will never have perfect balance, and it wouldn't have perfect balance even if elite specs were never invented.Gameplay variety is well worth the expense of balance. See: Path of Exile. Players like choice and theory-crafting. Many players even like using sub-par meme builds.

GW2's combat system is excellent, to the extent that a new wave of elite specs can refresh every type of content in the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire completely busted WvW and SPvP, which is exactly what this game needs right now.New elite specs bring new raid and fractal-viable builds, refreshing both of those types of content.

While new elite specs do require new art and audio, I think people are vastly overestimating that cost compared to the rest of the game. Take a look at every living world release in season 3 and 4, and even in Bound by Blood, and it's clear that ArenaNet have never skimped on art and audio. Their releases are almost fully voice-acted, with new sound effects (many foleyed) and tons of new texture work. Compare the new art and effects that elite specs have gotten, and it's totally dwarfed by what we've seen in the story content. There's probably more voice work involved in recording a single episode of living world than there is in recording player character VO for all nine elite specs for five races and two sexes.

The barrier to more elite specs is probably mechanical rather than artistic. I think it's the most-needed feature in the game right now though.

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@Tulki.1458 said:In my mind, a new set of elite specs is the healthiest thing they could do to the game.No game has perfect balance. This game will never have perfect balance, and it wouldn't have perfect balance even if elite specs were never invented.Gameplay variety is well worth the expense of balance. See: Path of Exile. Players like choice and theory-crafting. Many players even like using sub-par meme builds.

GW2's combat system is excellent, to the extent that a new wave of elite specs can refresh every type of content in the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire completely busted WvW and SPvP, which is exactly what this game needs right now.New elite specs bring new raid and fractal-viable builds, refreshing both of those types of content.

While new elite specs do require new art and audio, I think people are vastly overestimating that cost compared to the rest of the game. Take a look at every living world release in season 3 and 4, and even in Bound by Blood, and it's clear that ArenaNet have never skimped on art and audio. Their releases are almost fully voice-acted, with new sound effects (many foleyed) and tons of new texture work. Compare the new art and effects that elite specs have gotten, and it's totally dwarfed by what we've seen in the story content. There's probably more voice work involved in recording a single episode of living world than there is in recording player character VO for all nine elite specs for five races and two sexes.

The barrier to more elite specs is probably mechanical rather than artistic. I think it's the most-needed feature in the game right now though.

couldn't agree more.

The game is starved..

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No need for more specs, rework and balance the old ones instead. We got a ton of specs/builds on every professions and you can really play around and with a new feeling with each of these for quite the time. You guys just want the new shiny thing because before most fixes it's broken and a faceroll to play ;) More builds and specs means more time to bugfix a pool of new specs. They are still fixing the HoT and PoF specs lol.Better they add more/new dungeons, fractals and raids instead and work on the WvW and PvP aspects.

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While of course I'd rather get new elite specs than nothing, I'm not even really convinced that elite specs are the best way to continue giving classes new options. It might be better to reconcept the whole trait/skill system to make it easier to develop on for Anet and more open-ended for players. I honestly think, in most respects, the launch system was better than the one we have now.

For example, combining skill points & trait points into hero points was goofy - they should be two separate but complementary progression systems instead of being in competition with each other as you level a toon. I also preferred the ability to put points in all 5 traitlines if i wanted to instead of having to choose 3 specializations.

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@"Tulki.1458" said:In my mind, a new set of elite specs is the healthiest thing they could do to the game.No game has perfect balance. This game will never have perfect balance, and it wouldn't have perfect balance even if elite specs were never invented.Gameplay variety is well worth the expense of balance. See: Path of Exile. Players like choice and theory-crafting. Many players even like using sub-par meme builds.

GW2's combat system is excellent, to the extent that a new wave of elite specs can refresh every type of content in the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire completely busted WvW and SPvP, which is exactly what this game needs right now.New elite specs bring new raid and fractal-viable builds, refreshing both of those types of content.

While new elite specs do require new art and audio, I think people are vastly overestimating that cost compared to the rest of the game. Take a look at every living world release in season 3 and 4, and even in Bound by Blood, and it's clear that ArenaNet have never skimped on art and audio. Their releases are almost fully voice-acted, with new sound effects (many foleyed) and tons of new texture work. Compare the new art and effects that elite specs have gotten, and it's totally dwarfed by what we've seen in the story content. There's probably more voice work involved in recording a single episode of living world than there is in recording player character VO for all nine elite specs for five races and two sexes.

The barrier to more elite specs is probably mechanical rather than artistic. I think it's the most-needed feature in the game right now though.

Yeah, people who are like "balance what we have now first" should not be listened to. To echo your point - it is not possible to achieve anything close to perfect balance, so iteration and continuous development are paramount to keeping a game feeling fresh, and it is definitely worth regularly adding new options for characters even if it temporarily makes balance take two steps back.

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It would be very welcome. Like others said, they breathe vast amounts of life into the game on all fronts. I'm still inexperienced in the grand scheme of things in the game but more ways to play equals ALWAYS GOOD.

But what would the new weapon be for the professions?

Warrior, for example, has a massive wealth of them. I assume pistol(s) will be the go-to choice.

Thieves. You could go the lazy route and add off-hand sword. Or you can do something better and try to make a mace work with it; some kind of hooligan that knocks people out. The longbow would probably make it too similar to Deadeye, unless the new skill category defines it in a different direction.

Revenants will be happy with anything, they have so few weapons to use. Greatsword will be a perfect fit, they're the only soldier profession without it.

Guardians can get the warhorn or maybe off-hand sword/axe/mace.

Elementalists have few weapons, meaning there's lots of possibilities.

Engineers, also starved for weapons. Though I have a good feeling about the staff, but I don't know how it'd fit in. Magitech?

Rangers, scepter? Make it an offensive caster or something. Maybe it could revolve around poison, earth and angry plants come to life.

Mesmers could get a dagger and take a turn towards the darker side of mesmer magic. Fear, chaos and treachery (for their enemies)!

Necromancers, maybe sword or mace?

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@Kalifax.3046 said:It would be very welcome. Like others said, they breathe vast amounts of life into the game on all fronts. I'm still inexperienced in the grand scheme of things in the game but more ways to play equals ALWAYS GOOD.

But what would the new weapon be for the professions?

Warrior, for example, has a massive wealth of them. I assume pistol(s) will be the go-to choice.

Thieves. You could go the lazy route and add off-hand sword. Or you can do something better and try to make a mace work with it; some kind of hooligan that knocks people out. The longbow would probably make it too similar to Deadeye, unless the new skill category defines it in a different direction.

Revenants will be happy with anything, they have so few weapons to use. Greatsword will be a perfect fit, they're the only soldier profession without it.

Guardians can get the warhorn or maybe off-hand sword/axe/mace.

Elementalists have few weapons, meaning there's lots of possibilities.

Engineers, also starved for weapons. Though I have a good feeling about the staff, but I don't know how it'd fit in. Magitech?

Rangers, scepter? Make it an offensive caster or something. Maybe it could revolve around poison, earth and angry plants come to life.

Mesmers could get a dagger and take a turn towards the darker side of mesmer magic. Fear, chaos and treachery (for their enemies)!

Necromancers, maybe sword or mace?

Well. If anet added spears, and tridents to the list of weapons usable on land it would add more, just a thought. its -way- out there but still a much asked for feature.

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Adding weapons to existing core specs? Yes.

Adding more elites and making balance even more of a nightmare? No. Whether people want to believe it or not competitive modes do drive games. The PvE side of guild wars two isn't offering a whole lot now and once it's done players are free to drop the game until the next release. Many do. You need better profession balance(elite specs ruined this) and you need healthy competitive modes because those are the players who have the greatest incentive to log in every day- regardless of whether the game is experiencing a PvE/living world/Raid content drought or not.

Elite specs have been a failure. They've ruined the modes, and more they've been a waste of development hours and money. It's bad enough to find empty maps in the game. Having money and time spent on creating whole subsets of player character-centric content which is rendered/considered throw away when the next installment supersedes it is wasteful. It also puts the lie to the notion that content isn't deprecated in this game. Yes, the level cap hasn't increased. Yes, all your weapons, armour, and accessories are still usable. But in the instance of elite specs, one -or more- of the pillars of your character has been rendered redundant. Making the latest spec demonstrably greater might increase excitement briefly, but in the overall scheme of things it's a short-term benefit at best. It's a short-sighted strategy.

Is it possible for characters to become stale? Probably. But it's just as probable that what players feel isn't a stagnation of the character itself but rather the world they have to play in. PvE does a good job of introducing certain elements, whether that's mechanics, or story etc. But PvE - especially guild wars two's implementation of such- doesn't have much replay value. Competitive modes- if properly supported, do. They act as a solid bridge between PvE releases. This is important.

When balance isn't there players abandon the competitive modes. They play the small, often erratically released, offerings of PvE then leave for games that do competitive better.

This isn't healthy because competitive players still spend on the gem store. They love cosmetics, they craft, and also spend for storage increases and character slots and shouldn't be written off. E-specs -as mentioned before, don't encourage retention. The road from one elite spec to the filling out of another - at least in the past- has been just as quickly accomplished as the average episode of living world. It's just more PvE content which allows players to drop the game after it's achieved. It doesn't help that next to nothing in the way of effort story-wise has been put into the game to usher in these specs. Making them even more easily thrown away, one after the next. You unlock them then you go on hiatus to play the game that holds your attention better. Being an alt-a-holic only accelerates the process of making the content feel repetitive and boring if you happen to have one of each of the nine professions elites are currently built upon.

Players get attached to their characters. They develop stories or themes about them and so some want to stay with certain specs especially in competitive modes. This is why balance is necessary. This is why keeping the promise to players, the intention that elite specs weren't meant to be outright upgrades but simply alternatives which change the flavour of hoe the class is played. They were intended to be options. Telling players that they aren't wanted unless they toe the meta line because their spec/profession is comparatively weak drives players away. Balance is a must. Balance isn't possible with elite specs. Not the way ANet has done. And thanks to their having painted themselves into a corner in this fashion we're all too far deeply invested to have rid of E-specs in order to right the ship.

Other games seem to recognise this need for better-suported, highly replayable, bridging content. It's a shame ArenaNet never saw the value there -or if they did that they didn't believe enough in what they'd made to persevere. That a company and a game which in so many ways were ahead of their time seven years ago, have now been left in the dust by competitors. Not because the competitors did anything particularly groundbreaking for the genre, but because they were allowed, by neglect and/or apathy on the part of Anet to catch up and then drive well beyond, it's just sad.

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@Iozeph.5617 said:Adding weapons to existing core specs? Yes.+WORDS+

So..gonna throw it out there, ive been playing GW2 for 7 years, and im lower than rank 40 in PVP, and my WVW rank is only 270. Neither of those modes have ever driven my staying in GW2, and honestly if they didnt exist i wouldnt really care or notice, i feel like that development time could have been spent alot better elsewhere given their lack of support for said modes.

Now, i do agree with you when you say elite specs have ruined the game, i feel like they should have been implemented differently, im not to sure how though.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Kalifax.3046" said:It would be very welcome. Like others said, they breathe vast amounts of life into the game on all fronts. I'm still inexperienced in the grand scheme of things in the game but more ways to play equals ALWAYS GOOD.

But what would the new weapon be for the professions?

Warrior, for example, has a massive wealth of them. I assume pistol(s) will be the go-to choice.

Thieves. You could go the lazy route and add off-hand sword. Or you can do something better and try to make a mace work with it; some kind of hooligan that knocks people out. The longbow would probably make it too similar to Deadeye, unless the new skill category defines it in a different direction.

Revenants will be happy with anything, they have so few weapons to use. Greatsword will be a perfect fit, they're the only soldier profession without it.

Guardians can get the warhorn or maybe off-hand sword/axe/mace.

Elementalists have few weapons, meaning there's lots of possibilities.

Engineers, also starved for weapons. Though I have a good feeling about the staff, but I don't know how it'd fit in. Magitech?

Rangers, scepter? Make it an offensive caster or something. Maybe it could revolve around poison, earth and angry plants come to life.

Mesmers could get a dagger and take a turn towards the darker side of mesmer magic. Fear, chaos and treachery (for their enemies)!

Necromancers, maybe sword or mace?

Well. If anet added spears, and tridents to the list of weapons usable on land it would add more, just a thought. its -way- out there but still a much asked for feature.

I feel adding those weapons would feel off due the lack of skins they have. You could just give another class kits to fill that role. That would even bring new "weapons" into the mix. Next warrior elite spec maybe? I could see a spear, flail, greataxe, whip, or halberd as a good choice.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Iozeph.5617" said:Adding weapons to existing core specs? Yes.+WORDS+

So..gonna throw it out there, ive been playing GW2 for 7 years, and im lower than rank 40 in PVP, and my WVW rank is only 270. Neither of those modes have ever driven my staying in GW2, and honestly if they didnt exist i wouldnt really care or notice, i feel like that development time could have been spent alot better elsewhere given their lack of support for said modes.

Now, i do agree with you when you say elite specs have ruined the game, i feel like they should have been implemented differently, im not to sure how though.

Nothing wrong with what you have to say. Some people won't go near competitive modes and that's their prerogative. But it's 2019 and the game that sells itself as the game for everyone needs to stop giving lip service and actually demonstrate that they care about other segments of the player base.

There's no need for there to be any enmity or antagonism between these segments because if we're all honest, the PvE side of things, whether that's fractals, raids, or living world, has been meager fare too. Much of the money put in by players seems to just vanish down a dark hole and reemerge as more dubious offerings on the gem store. Then when people complain, 'where's our content!?' they're fed the line, 'well, you know there's only so much money and talent to go around." So why does the majority of it end up as tripe on the gem store? It's a sad state of affairs that all segments of the community are essentially fighting over next to nothing because from the perspective of someone looking in from the outside -especially compared to other games out there- it appears that the kitty for this game has effectively been robbed to fund the creation of carnival prize rubbish.

And here's the funny thing about that. Competitive mode players haven't been asking asking for a ton of money to be thrown their way. They've been playing the same maps/arenas forever. What they want is a level playing field for all specs and population balance. In competitive modes much of what makes them function comes from players. It's the thrill of having, on average, a smarter, less predictable opponent than those found in PvE. That's where the replayability in competitive modes comes from. And it's why they're crucial to keeping people logging in during content droughts in other modes. Because if they're at least logging in every day for some part of the game then there's a chance to make a buck off of them.

Where it breaks down is when Anet just dumps new mechanics and specs on the community that far outpace those that came before. We went from a game that required at least some strategy- some give and take- to one where players are taken from full health to nil in the space of a few seconds with little to no counterplay -not necessarily by focus fire, but by single players. When everybody begins playing these sorts of professions the modes suffer because they become predictable and boring.

That's where we are now. Predictable and boring.

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I'm for elite specs, they add flavour to the game, it's also new different ways to play your profession. Plus the additionnal skills you earn. For my main engie would like short bow to have one more range weapon, but the staff is a cool idea too. Why not a minions-like engie? You could spawn steam creatures, use force fields even use a siege golem as elite dunno....

Would like a powerful elemental sniper with longbow for elementalist....

I know the balance isn't perfect and adjusted, but I have fun playing any specs (apart druid and deadeye). One time, they have to stop adding episodes and focus themselves on balance, that's an obligation. Several bugs are still present in maps too.... It just keep growing, bigger than a bookshelf. Recently I'm not even ableto finish broken brand stomper, one is bugged even if grubs are killed, the aoe stays. It's the number 3 or 9, near north farms. Inquest chest still empty and bugged in sandswept.

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There won't be another expansion, they are dead set on that but admitting it would hurt them more than help them. So I doubt we will see another generation of E-specs; I doubt we will see much more new stuff in class department or the like. They won't add another new class, another E-spec or another new race and they won't do anything with the races we have now so why bother?

They will be on the four to five month living world episode drop, and we will just continue as Season 4 showed. We might get reworks but not all of them will be good so when it comes to new ways to play and new flavor being injected into the game I feel like we just won't have any. The unfortunate part is that we had this same issue prior to HoT and it made the game grow really stale really quickly I don't know if anyone remembers but Living world Season 1 and season 2 were not received as well as HoT, season 3 and PoF/Season 4.

A lot of that came down to E-specs bringing new ways to play and new themes to build around, So without those Im not sure how much retention the game will maintain going forward. Unless they pull a sneaky and E-specs come out somewhere between Episode 1 and Episode 2 which im doubtful at them doing so, So I don't mean to be negative but im going to give this a "It won't ever happen, or cross their mind."

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