Thanks for the FREE build templates ANET!!

[perilisk.1874]

@RoseofGilead.8907 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Except it wasn’t obscure, it was incredibly popular and almost everyone I meet in game uses it. People like you are a minority. Good that your ignorance is now paying off, but the majority isn’t happy about this.

I definitely wouldn't call it obscure, but I very strongly doubt that the majority of players use the build templates from ArcDPS. I'm sure the majority of the hardcore fractals/wvw/pvp players do use it, but the majority of players in the game wouldn't be in those hardcore groups.

But a lot of the people who aren't using ArcDPS for templates are doing in part because templates aren't that critical for them. IOW, they're the people least interested in buying them anyway. The people most likely to feel exploited and angry is the very same set of people they are trying to convince to part with money.

[MetalGirl.2370]

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012?I don't know, maybe you're right, considering how money hungry they are as of late, we should start to thank them to giving us something.I just wish they'd finally give us HAIRS. not CHAIRS. Maybe they're just reading it wrong ... and adding C in front, so they think we actually care for ugly chairs.

You do realize Anet is a business and to be successful you have to make money at said business. It’s not like they are forcing anyone to pay for anything. Hell you even get the game free now.

It’s the entitlement that is plaguing the minds here not the game or Anet. If you don’t like it then simply stop playing it’s simple.

I didn't expect anything else from forums anyway, but just people who blindly defend them.You can still be NOT greedy and have successful business, that's how they even started and people liked it, they turned money hungry after HoT.Also, I don't get game for free, I bought everything and MUCH MORE, just for them to milk me some more.And you do realize you're killing the game by telling the people to leave the game ? .... you're kind of taking the money away from them by telling people to leave, yet you preach how they need to earn $.

It’s people like me that you’re even getting the stuff Anet is putting out. People like me who spend hundreds of dollars so people like you who want it all for free can get it for FREE!!!!

I spend hundreds of pounds too. I spend £200 for perma hair kit. So don't go off on me. I gave A LOT of my money and I got every right to be frustrated. So don't feel entitled and think you're the reason anyone has got anything. You're not the only one with a job and coin in your pocket.

[SLOTH.5231]

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:kitten off.Ps: please permaban me, not interested in making any more business with you after all. Cu

Can I have your stuff? kthxbye

He’s not going anywhere he’s playing the game as we speak lol

[Omega.6801]

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:kitten off.Ps: please permaban me, not interested in making any more business with you after all. Cu

Can I have your stuff? kthxbye

He’s not going anywhere he’s playing the game as we speak lol

I thought as much. The yelling crowd always keeps playing because without the game they would be out of things to cry over ;)

[sigur.9453]

@lokh.2695 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:kitten off.Ps: please permaban me, not interested in making any more business with you after all. Cu

Can I have your stuff? kthxbye

He’s not going anywhere he’s playing the game as we speak lol

I thought as much. The yelling crowd always keeps playing because without the game they would be out of things to cry over ;)

You can actually look it up ingame if I am playing, you would be surprised. You want stuff for free? How dare you!

[Omega.6801]

@sigur.9453 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:kitten off.Ps: please permaban me, not interested in making any more business with you after all. Cu

Can I have your stuff? kthxbye

He’s not going anywhere he’s playing the game as we speak lol

I thought as much. The yelling crowd always keeps playing because without the game they would be out of things to cry over ;)

You can actually look it up ingame if I am playing, you would be surprised. You want stuff for free? How dare you!

"Can I have your stuff? kthxbye" is less an expression of a real desire to get free stuff(wouldn't say no to it either but who would tbh) but more of an expression on how little I care about one more whining post from an unsattisfied customer who threatens to leave the game. Posts like these are beeing made every day over issues of all sizes, I do share some of them, don't get me wrong, but should I ever quit the game I would just quit it instead of posting about it on a forum.

[MetalGirl.2370]

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:kitten off.Ps: please permaban me, not interested in making any more business with you after all. Cu

Can I have your stuff? kthxbye

He’s not going anywhere he’s playing the game as we speak lol

I thought as much. The yelling crowd always keeps playing because without the game they would be out of things to cry over ;)

You can actually look it up ingame if I am playing, you would be surprised. You want stuff for free? How dare you!

"Can I have your stuff? kthxbye" is less an expression of a real desire to get free stuff(wouldn't say no to it either but who would tbh) but more of an expression on how little I care about one more whining post from an unsattisfied customer who threatens to leave the game. Posts like these are beeing made every day over issues of all sizes, I do share some of them, don't get me wrong, but should I ever quit the game I would just quit it instead of posting about it on a forum.

He didn't even threaten to leave the game. You and OP should learn to read.He said he is not interested in doing business with them anymore which could just mean he won't buy things anymore.

[sigur.9453]

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@lokh.2695 said:

@sigur.9453 said:kitten off.Ps: please permaban me, not interested in making any more business with you after all. Cu

Can I have your stuff? kthxbye

He’s not going anywhere he’s playing the game as we speak lol

I thought as much. The yelling crowd always keeps playing because without the game they would be out of things to cry over ;)

You can actually look it up ingame if I am playing, you would be surprised. You want stuff for free? How dare you!

"Can I have your stuff? kthxbye" is less an expression of a real desire to get free stuff(wouldn't say no to it either but who would tbh) but more of an expression on how little I care about one more whining post from an unsattisfied customer who threatens to leave the game. Posts like these are beeing made every day over issues of all sizes, I do share some of them, don't get me wrong, but should I ever quit the game I would just quit it instead of posting about it on a forum.

I already quit the game month ago. Sorry to shatter your believes. But if these sort of comments make you happy, good for you!

[DoRi Silvia.4159]

At this point I ain't even mad anymoreEnd of the day, anet will push this through and people who are willing to pay for it will.

I will probably get over it too and buy some slots (as long as they dont get silly with the price tag)

Hopefully for future reference anet will see that players are not happy with monetization in this sort of way and learn from this one

[Jimbru.6014]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Actually yeah, I have played in raids, fractals, GvG and WvW and PvP and all the dedicated players I meet use build templates. Logic even dictates such players would be using tools like that. So I can certainly say most vets were already using this system.Interesting metric. To me, it seems that ANet caters a lot more to the casual PvE crowd than these that you've listed which leads me to believe that their metrics as to what makes up the majority of players is different from your perspective. Still, I won't argue that this change will affect a significant portion of the player base. I'm just not sure it would qualify as the majority.

Contrary to what may seem from how much they complain, the hardcore raiders and PVP ladder climbers only make up around 10-15% of the GW2 population. The large majority of GW2 players are PVE casuals who love buying shiny stuff from the gem store, so that's what ANet mainly caters to because it's what keeps their lights on. Economics 101.

As for the templates thing affecting the majority of the population -- I knew that addons existed for GW2, but I don't use them because they're not officially supported and I don't particularly like the idea of inviting potential malware into my computer. I didn't even know a templates addon existed until this thread. And I'm pretty sure THAT sentence WILL apply to the majority of the population. Most people just play the game, and they play it as is. Ain't no thing.

[Mewcifer.5198]

"It was free before"No, it required a third party add-on before, many people are not comfortable using those. And even people who had the add-on were not all using the templates. I even heard that it could bug and delete your gear.The gem store has always been really big about pay-for-convenience. Bag slots, bank space, character slots, world boss device, etc.

"It was free in GW1"Guild Wars 1 did not have the same content model as GW2. GW2 has regular updates that do not require an additional purchase, more work means more ongoing funding is needed.

We do not even know how much it costs yet. People need to chill out.

[Neutra.6857]

@Jimbru.6014 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Actually yeah, I have played in raids, fractals, GvG and WvW and PvP and all the dedicated players I meet use build templates. Logic even dictates such players would be using tools like that. So I can certainly say most vets were already using this system.Interesting metric. To me, it seems that ANet caters a lot more to the casual PvE crowd than these that you've listed which leads me to believe that their metrics as to what makes up the majority of players is different from your perspective. Still, I won't argue that this change will affect a significant portion of the player base. I'm just not sure it would qualify as the majority.

Contrary to what may seem from how much they complain, the hardcore raiders and PVP ladder climbers only make up around 10-15% of the GW2 population. The large majority of GW2 players are PVE casuals who love buying shiny stuff from the gem store, so that's what ANet mainly caters to because it's what keeps their lights on. Economics 101.

As for the templates thing affecting the majority of the population -- I knew that addons existed for GW2, but I don't use them because they're not officially supported and I don't particularly like the idea of inviting potential malware into my computer. I didn't even know a templates addon existed until this thread. And I'm pretty sure THAT sentence WILL apply to the majority of the population. Most people just play the game, and they play it as is. Ain't no thing.

The majority of players also do not have multiple builds. The people who this is effecting (you know the ones who use multiple builds) are the ones this is most hurting.

[Brother.1504]

The aggression is unnecessary. It’s possible to debate something without being abusive.

[vyncius.6105]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:they are too far generous, 3 for free +3 for limited time,, 99% of playerbase rarely use anything than berserker. The most cry is probably from wvw crowd.

lets remember that in neverwinter(from PWE - pay to win entertainment) for example u are charged for even change traitlines! in that game only rich guys do proper theorycraft.

these 3+3 is for traits and utility skills. For gear, character will get 2 and the ones you will buy will be character bound

[Vyrulisse.1246]

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@"Offair.2563" said:Build templates were a thing before this update though

Well it simplifies things being built in to the game. I know some people don’t like change but sometimes change is necessary for evolution.

This is not evolution, it is devolution considering their "free" implementation is inferior in all ways to what we've had already.

[Substance E.4852]

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@Offair.2563 said:Build templates were a thing before this update though

Well it simplifies things being built in to the game. I know some people don’t like change but sometimes change is necessary for evolution.

Charging money for what was free in the previous game (and was free here with an add on) is some bizarre evolution to be sure

[Astralporing.1957]

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@Offair.2563 said:Build templates were a thing before this update though

Well it simplifies things being built in to the game. I know some people don’t like change but sometimes change is necessary for evolution.And sometimes that change is making things worse, not better.

@yoni.7015 said:But it seems that you will have to pay for it if you want to keep having 17 builds.The best part is that he won't even be able to pay. Both per-character gear and build template tabs are capped at 6. You can't buy up to 17 even if you wanted to.

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:I also believe that build storage slots are different from the builds on each character. It’ll only impact those who use more builds for a character than the slots that character has.Practically anyone playing WvW and PvE at any level beyond extremely casual will have more. Seriously,

I

have more, and I am nowhere close to being a hardcore minmaxer (and my "hardcoreness" in WvW is limited to realization i've had at some point that trying to run there with glass cannon builds was not a good idea).

If builds are text links, you can bypass the storage altogether by saving builds in a notepad file.Not if you use different gear sets for those, as you can't "save" those in notepad.@Firebeard.1746 said:This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff.No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off.

The reality is this: a one-time transaction is not enough to keep the lights on if you want more content and the servers kept on.Making veteran players disillusioned and unhappy to the point they start thinking about leaving the game (assuming they haven't already done that) will not keep the lights on either. The less players will remain, the more monetization Anet will try to pull. The more of that stuff, and the more players will leave.

Although i am sure the remaining players will still be thanking Anet for great job done even when the game will be shutting down.

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:Hopefully for future reference anet will see that players are not happy with monetization in this sort of way and learn from this oneIt will be exactly opposite. They will see that some players are defending them, so it is okay to introduce more of that stuff.

[Linken.6345]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@Offair.2563 said:Build templates were a thing before this update though

Well it simplifies things being built in to the game. I know some people don’t like change but sometimes change is necessary for evolution.And sometimes that change is making things worse, not better.

@yoni.7015 said:But it seems that you will have to pay for it if you want to keep having 17 builds.The best part is that he won't even be able to pay. Both per-character gear and build template tabs are capped at 6. You can't buy up to 17 even if you wanted to.

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:I also believe that build storage slots are different from the builds on each character. It’ll only impact those who use more builds for a character than the slots that character has.Practically anyone playing WvW and PvE at any level beyond extremely casual will have more. Seriously,

I

have more, and I am nowhere close to being a hardcore minmaxer (and my "hardcoreness" in WvW is limited to realization i've had at some point that trying to run there with glass cannon builds was not a good idea).

If builds are text links, you can bypass the storage altogether by saving builds in a notepad file.Not if you use different gear sets for those, as you can't "save" those in notepad.@Firebeard.1746 said:This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff.No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off.

The reality is this: a one-time transaction is not enough to keep the lights on if you want more content and the servers kept on.Making veteran players disillusioned and unhappy to the point they start thinking about leaving the game (assuming they haven't already done that) will not keep the lights on either. The less players will remain, the more monetization Anet will try to pull. The more of that stuff, and the more players will leave.

Although i am sure the remaining players will still be thanking Anet for great job done even when the game will be shutting down.

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:Hopefully for future reference anet will see that players are not happy with monetization in this sort of way and learn from this oneIt will be exactly opposite. They will see that some players are defending them, so it is okay to introduce

more

of that stuff.

Were did they say it was a maximum of 6 for each of gear and templates?

If you get 3+3 templates for free during a limited time that means the people playing atm are maxed and cant buy anymore so that would be stupid.

[Obtena.7952]

@MetalGirl.2370 said:What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012?

Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not.

Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it.

[Soaring Spirit.9170]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:

@"Offair.2563" said:Build templates were a thing before this update though

Well it simplifies things being built in to the game. I know some people don’t like change but sometimes change is necessary for evolution.

Charging money for what was free in the previous game (and was free here with an add on) is some bizarre evolution to be sure

Hehe well yeah because its not "evolution". Well not evolution in the good way anyway. (I'm just feeling a need say this I know its not needed, but its fun to play the role of misinterpretation)

Regardless from my understanding I can literally copy my GW1 folder structure, slap a 2 on the end, split it by Gear and Builds, then manually move the codes into the game and use it in the same way without much hassle. Which is what this one will do if this assumption is correct.

As time has gone on I have expected builds would be monetised more increasingly if they ever came after I found out it wasn't a thing at launch. While I agree the game does need to make money, sometimes I really feel like I'm being encouraged to leave the game by the people I should expect it from the least. Which makes it all the more disappointing.

P.S. Amusing how its only 2 for Gear, 1 for Power, 1 for Condi and 1 for Support gear would have made more sense as a minimum amount, thats before you get into more specialised set-ups.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Wasn't interested in it before hand, now so even less.

One more thing for me to ignore, this one is a big oof.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Linken.6345" said:Were did they say it was a maximum of 6 for each of gear and templates?During the stream they confirmed it

If you get 3+3 templates for free during a limited time that means the people playing atm are maxed and cant buy anymore so that would be stupid.The 3 additional "free" template slots are not for per-character template tabs. They are for the accountwide template storage (that storage has a cap of 24 slots)

@Obtena.7952 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012?

Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not.Because 7 years ago the standarts were different. Anet didn't monetize yet this kind of QoL upgrades. If they introduced wardrobe update now, not then, you can bet it would look completely different and would have a ton more gemshop connections than just easy-to-obtain-ingame transmutation changes. Another example is cooking 500 - it is strongly tied to garden plot purchases. 6 years ago the idea didn't even cross their mind to do something similar with all the level 500 crafting professions they introduced then.

The game today is very much different than it was before. So is the company making that game. And the changes weren't for the better.

[perilisk.1874]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012?

Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not.

Because for all that Arenanet's volunteer shills say otherwise, GW1 and GW2 were pretty similar in monetization on launch (character slots, bag slots, bank slots, charging per expansion/campaign, optional paid cosmetics), and while they've shifted to more cash shop and less content drops, the overall monetization ethos still mostly holds. Build templates is a deviation from the norm for Arenanet (worse, it's a feature that's deliberately crippled so it can be more easily monetized), and that doesn't bode well for the future of the game.

They didn't release templates in 2012 because you couldn't freely swap traits in 2012, whereas you could freely swap attributes in GW1 by the time templates were released. But that distinction hasn't been relevant for a while now. Yes, build templates would be more useful when linked to a gear swapping feature, and giving inventory slots was always going to be monetized. But monetizing a list of chatcodes that could just as easily be stored client side in unlimited quantities is just charging people because you can -- and even if you paid all the monies, you'd still have less functionality than you originally could have had through tolerated 3rd party tools.

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:Were did they say it was a maximum of 6 for each of gear and templates?During the stream they confirmed it

If you get 3+3 templates for free during a limited time that means the people playing atm are maxed and cant buy anymore so that would be stupid.The 3 additional "free" template slots are not for per-character template tabs. They are for the accountwide template storage (that storage has a cap of 24 slots)

@Obtena.7952 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012?

Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not.Because 7 years ago the standarts were different. Anet didn't monetize yet this kind of QoL upgrades. If they introduced wardrobe update now, not then, you can bet it would look completely different and would have a ton more gemshop connections than just easy-to-obtain-ingame transmutation changes. Another example is cooking 500 - it is strongly tied to garden plot purchases. 6 years ago the idea didn't even cross their mind to do something similar with all the level 500 crafting professions they introduced then.

The game today is very much different than it was before. So is the company making that game. And the changes weren't for the better.

That still doesn't explain why there is something unreasonable about monetizing useful features to players. Again, timing isn't a factor here. If this came out in 2012, it still would have been a feature worth using to create revenue. No one is being milked here. The fact that Arc is so popular for managing different builds DEMONSTRATES the value of this feature to players.

This is just another example of people being dishonest. They don't like it because they were getting the all the milk they wanted from the neighbours cow for free and now they can't. Entitlement is NO reason to complain about having to pay for useful features.

[Soaring Spirit.9170]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"MetalGirl.2370" said:What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012?

Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not.

Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it.

As far I'm concerned I'd be less upset (I'd have still been upset) if was charged for back in 2012, the hardest content PvE wise was dungons, which were great (and still are albeit neglected and bizarely not being utilised).

Why would I have still been upset, well in GW1 I could have as many build templates as I wanted, I was only limited by the amount of txt files I could store on my PC.What was in these txt files? A small string. Equally the big advertisment and justification of the Gem Store at the time, was that it would largely be cosmetic with some bonus' in it, that didn't really affect gameplay much. Now I won't go into bags and storage beyond cutting it short, inventory management in GW1 was quite messy and we kinda accepted the concept of paying for bank tabs (IIRC), not to mention for some, build templates are a much larger quality of life feature.

Builds mattered a lot less back then in terms of whats expected and rigidity, and as far as I'm aware thats still true for most the game, you only really see specialised builds PvE wise in Raids and Fractals. Yeah, its wanted in WvW and sPvP too but I'm going to use PvE as my example.Now just by common sense, people using specialised builds are going to want a builds system, and are also going to probably be dedicated players, so odds are given the style of progression GW2 follows, they will have more than 1 profession they play. They will likely also want to cover as many roles as they can, on what professions they do play.

So even assuming you limit how many builds a person can have preset, you would look at whats commonly done or used and should arrive at the conclusion that you want everyone to be able to store an offensive setup, a defensive setup and a supportive setup. Which already goes over the 2 people get by default, before we even split Offence into Power and Condition based builds or consider they might have a Generic one for open world.

So per character we are falling down on what we expect we would need. Now if a player doesn'tdo this, woohoo they have 3 Gear slots (I'd argue 4 if you think how I do but still). Any extra I could go OK maybe given they are not highly likely to be wanted, there is an argument for them being "extra's" and slapping a gem cost on them. especially since they need to be stored somewhere server side if your going to take them out of the inventory (which I believe was where GW1 would pull from for its weapons templates)

However the big one is traits and utilities, these don't really have any justification (In my opinion), you don't store traits anywhere nor utilities, the only real thing thats being stored is a unique key that dictates the ones chosen, at least I'd assume this and again this probably wouldn't take up much space individually and if its a bulk storage issue they could probably get away with storing it the same way as GW1.

So yeah I think people are entitled to be unhappy and want to express displeasure, your certainly in correct to wish to counter argue on points, just like I am, though so far I've mostly given opinions based on my views.

What I will however directly say is to say "timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not" is ridiculous,. This is a business scenario. Timing ALWAYS matters on things, especially in business. You yourself asked if it would have mattered in 2012, as shown above I think it would have, to a differing degree in relation to how it matters now.

Guild Wars 2 is 7 years old. Thats a good amount of time and opinions change, mine has its gone more towards disappointment in relation to this topic as I view it as a more clear sign that some things have changed negatively. Maybe thats because I've been around longer and remember it was free in GW1, maybe its because this is happening to people who have invested into the game monetarily as well or maybe its something else. Maybe if I started playing at a point afterwards and had only found out they were even a thing in GW1 I'd feel less disappointed, maybe if I hadn't heard of them existing at all I'd be really happy. Its going to change to each individual on many different variables.

Timing is certainly one of those things thats going to matter, we have been promised expansion quality content as part of the season. Some of that is VERY likely to be monetised, the order and timing of its introduction is certainly going to matter, on top of which aspects of it are monetised.

Anyway I really went of on one there ^^, hopefully though some will garner something useful from it if they can be bothered to read all of it.