Mike O'Brien is not the only one leaving

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@"Greg.7086" said:And I stand by that statement and it's not an insult: It's just real life.

Uhu. So the "it's not an insult when it's true" argument, then?

Again, if the optimistic view is the one calling some of the most important people on ArenaNet "lazy and complacent", I would rather be pessimistic.

@"Bloodstealer.5978" said:The layoffs actually took ANET back to around the number of people they had when GW2 launched

Did it?

Considering we now know that more people left

after

the layoffs... Looks like ArenaNet is hurting for people right now.

Yes ANET came back down to similar staff levels to that at which GW2 launched.So why the steady increase in staff over the last "x" amount of years since.. well I guess it takes time to bring devs up to speed with the business, the product etc and I would hazard a guess when they felt confident they had others that could take on and handle roles that would undertaken by others that would move onto "other projects"People leave companies all the time, why should ANET be any different. A knock on effect of businesses having to make tough decisions such as staff layoffs and/or change is people also get anxious and look around for other opportunities and yes sometimes there is also additional numbers that get culled as the business has to change, reorganise, scale down further maybe - this is all just typical business.Interestingly though ANET over the years appear to be relatively stable in revenue (perhaps a little too static perhaps for NCSoft) and knowing now that NCSOft was seeing a definite decline across its whole ageing portfolio, while still funding the "New Projects" development at ANET, its no wonder those projects have been curtailed/cancelled. Unfortunately you still have the increased headcount with no new projects requirements, hence... layoffs and back to delivering on GW2 for the foreseeable future with the headcount that it had previously, thus ensuring revenue would not become over burdened by the additional headcount/costs NCSoft was having to bankroll.As I said previous, the alarming thing for me was some of names that did leave either by choice or not... and now we hear MO and others leaving. Were those that left by choice doing so for a reason, perhaps some of the latest ones too.

Thing is we are all guessing and surmising on things we just have zero hard facts to go on.Is ANET hurting - of course, any business does when having to make tough calls, especially so when some of the talent has deep rooted experience.Does that mean they don't have the talent to push the business and the product onwards - I would very much like to think so and the latest LS prologue suggests to me personally that, that holds true.Will there be more things that jump out and hit u in the face - who knows, anything is possible.

[Obtena.7952]

@Dante.1508 said:Not good at all.. But not surprising seeing what this modern GW2 has become.

Actually ... based on seeing what GW2 has become ... this could be good.

People always doomsay when the leader takes off ... but never wonder why things haven't been going well ... the leader has a hand in that you know.

[Dante.1508]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dante.1508 said:Not good at all.. But not surprising seeing what this modern GW2 has become.

Actually ... based on seeing what GW2 has become ... this could be good.

People always doomsay when the leader takes off ... but never wonder why things haven't been going well ... the leader has a hand in that you know.

True but the game has slowly deteriorated from the Guildwars 1 vision since Guildwars 2 release, i'm not sure its ever going to come back, way to many decisions stopped it.

From what i've seen its usually the ones in charge of the money are the ones that has a hand in things.

[Obtena.7952]

@Dante.1508 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dante.1508 said:Not good at all.. But not surprising seeing what this modern GW2 has become.

Actually ... based on seeing what GW2 has become ... this could be good.

People always doomsay when the leader takes off ... but never wonder why things haven't been going well ... the leader has a hand in that you know.

True but the game has slowly deteriorated from the Guildwars 1 vision since Guildwars 2 release, i'm not sure its ever going to come back, way to many decisions stopped it.

From what i've seen its usually the ones in charge of the money are the ones that has a hand in things.

Um, no hold on here. Don't bring GW1 into this. GW2 has nothing to do with it. That's unreasonable to claim it's been going downhill compared to something that's not related to it.

[Dante.1508]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dante.1508 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dante.1508 said:Not good at all.. But not surprising seeing what this modern GW2 has become.

Actually ... based on seeing what GW2 has become ... this could be good.

People always doomsay when the leader takes off ... but never wonder why things haven't been going well ... the leader has a hand in that you know.

True but the game has slowly deteriorated from the Guildwars 1 vision since Guildwars 2 release, i'm not sure its ever going to come back, way to many decisions stopped it.

From what i've seen its usually the ones in charge of the money are the ones that has a hand in things.

Um, no hold on here. Don't bring GW1 into this. GW2 has nothing to do with it.

Mike started Guildwars 1 which imo was a far superior game, Guildwars 2 while adding a few requested features never was as good to me, and now sadly as far as i know the last of the older guard are gone. Now we are stuck in modern systems aimed at mobile type gaming mechanics.. Not good.

[Obtena.7952]

That's nice ... but GW2 isn't downhill because of GW1. It's a completely different game. Maybe you think GW2 is a downgrade from GW1 ... OK ... but the reasonable comparison here is how GW2 stands on it's own, not how it compares to other games... even those games people feel are related to it.

[Erasculio.2914]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:this is all just typical business.

...Which had never happened in the almost 20 years ArenaNet has existed.

Ergo, is it typical for ArenaNet? No.

It's a sign of a change. Whether it's a change ArenaNet can recover or not, we don't know. The fact important people left during the layoffs and important people are still leaving doesn't exactly inspire confidence, though.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Dante.1508 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dante.1508 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dante.1508 said:Not good at all.. But not surprising seeing what this modern GW2 has become.

Actually ... based on seeing what GW2 has become ... this could be good.

People always doomsay when the leader takes off ... but never wonder why things haven't been going well ... the leader has a hand in that you know.

True but the game has slowly deteriorated from the Guildwars 1 vision since Guildwars 2 release, i'm not sure its ever going to come back, way to many decisions stopped it.

From what i've seen its usually the ones in charge of the money are the ones that has a hand in things.

Um, no hold on here. Don't bring GW1 into this. GW2 has nothing to do with it.

Mike started Guildwars 1 which imo was a far superior game, Guildwars 2 while adding a few requested features never was as good to me, and now sadly the as far as i know the last of the older guard are gone. Now we are stuck in modern systems aimed at mobile type gaming mechanics.. Not good.

What was ANETs alternative, stand around doing nothing hoping nothing changes, people don't change, tech wont change.Of course GW2 has had to try and offer modern systems, using tech, offering convenience and yeah microtransaction and DLC are a thing, and many players prefer to see the game moving forward.I get it, GW1 for you was excellent, it was for me too, but GW2 is its own game it is not GW1 and it is 2019. Should we all still be using 56k modems, a DX processor and 4-16Mb of RAM or do we want something newer, more modern with some fresh paint across the screens - I for one did/do.Heck if we all thought like what you suggest civilisation would still be stuck, struggling to come up with the wheel.Great people, leaders, innovators and ordinary people move on all the time across even aspect of life not just within ANET.. does that have to mean what they leave behind is doomed.. I don't think so. Will things be a little unsettled, yeah most likely, but as MO said himself someone is stepping up that has GW2 impregnated in his DNA and that sounds positive to me, but before we consign the game and all concerned with its development to the annals of time at least give them the chance to fail first.

I too have reservations about the future of the game, I have not been shy in saying that in the various threads that have materialised since ANET had to make layoffs, but its all based around hearsay and conjecture because none of us know what actually has taken place internally, none of us know the ins and outs of the discussions held between ANET and NCSoft and none of us know anything of the future plans of both the business and the game.Instead of panicking and raising endless doom and gloom threads all we players have to do is make a few simple decisions for ourselves.. do we enjoy the game and should we continue to play/support it, there is nothing being forced on us physically, financially or mentally and if its no longer for you or me or anyone else then that's fine - we are lucky we get to make those decisions freely and move on without any consequence should we choose.

[Pifil.5193]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:Not good at all.. But not surprising seeing what this modern GW2 has become.

Actually ... based on seeing what GW2 has become ... this could be good.

People always doomsay when the leader takes off ... but never wonder why things haven't been going well ... the leader has a hand in that you know.

Yep, this could turn out to be good for GW2. I just hope Mike Zadorojny's ascension doesn't negatively affect GW2.

I wish Mike O'Brien and everyone who left with him the very best of luck in their new studio! I truly hope that it works out well for them and that they produce amazing games!

However, I acknowledge that he was ultimately the one in charge of ArenaNet during the entire life of GW2 so I am a little surprised to see that people who are disappointed with various aspects of GW2 seem to think that the guy(s) who were responsible for those aspects will somehow "fix" them in whatever project they move onto next.

Faraway hills are greener, I guess.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:this is all just typical business.

...Which had never happened in the almost 20 years ArenaNet has existed.

Ergo, is it typical for ArenaNet? No.

It's a sign of a change. Whether it's a change ArenaNet can recover or not, we don't know. The fact important people left during the layoffs and important people are still leaving doesn't exactly inspire confidence, though.

So.. because ANET have avoided having to make such a tough decision for so long doesn't prove anything.Things change every day and in a global market place those changes can throw out even the best made plans of any business, but layoffs, redundancies, dismissals and plain old moving on is just something that is just typical of any business no matter how much money you have, how many great people you employ within the business and no matter how great the product(s) might be.My take on the layoff situation, as I have said few times already within several of threads that have popped up - ANET basically had to reduce their headcount back to where NCSof had budgeted prior to embarking on new project development.ANET and NCSoft are not group of infants acting in a school play they would of already identified the need to expand the studios portfolio otherwise when the numbers eventually drop too low and the quarterlies have to try and paint over ever widening cracks, then Houston, we have a problem!Question is why did ANET have to make layoffs at a time when the latest financials still suggested they were pretty stable and making money.. well NCSoft may of already answered that for us.. they were seeing declines across their whole portfolio and had cut back on additional spending .. R&D is always an easy target when those kind of decisions get played out and once made that additional 120+ headcount ANET was carrying couldn't all be reassigned within the business.It is a testament to how well ANET have managed to navigate the many storms they would of undoubtedly faced throughout its almost 2 decades, but at the end of the day they are also part of a much larger business and yes perhaps the signs of change have been there for a while, some of us have seen some of that change filter into the game the past few years.Change is tough, we humans typically try to resit and struggle to accept it for a while, but change can be a good thing, it that doesn't have to be all bad and hopefully ANET can ride the storm, perhaps even come out of it the stronger - If not, well it's been a hell of a ride for me personally, but I still trust in hope that there is still a lot of unfinished business with GW2.

[Urud.4925]

That's a bad news for me (although I also appreciate very much how Mike Z is managing the game). There are a lot of players, PvP'ers who constantly complain because their favourite game mode doesn't receive the same attention, veterans who only play PvE and are bored after 2 weeks of new content (maybe forgetting that it's easy to complete a new map in 2 days, but it's not so fast to programming it, adding new and different quests that are not the usual fetching quests or kill x mobs).Despite the game is not young anymore, there are still many new players (also because we don't have the problem of the gear gap with veterans) and this is quite rare in old MMOs. People are probably less friendly than 3 years ago, in the pre-PoF era, but it's still a good community after all. It's difficult to please a very large audience.

I understand how, at a certain point, a founder can see his creature going ahead too fast, bigger, a bit far from the original idea. It's like (on a veeery very smaller scale) when we found a guild and it grows year after year, and a certain point we look back, and we are proud that it grew so much under our leadership, but we don't recognise it anymore, we lost some old friends, and we have difficulty to still call it a family.

Mike O'Brien is like Gene Roddenberry for Star Trek: the soul of Guild War. I'm quite confident that his vision of the game will remain (at least for some years). In the meantime, he will work on a new project, so I look forward to read news about it. I will follow his next creation for sure.

[Gehenna.3625]

@SnowMochi.7602 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Xar.6279 said:It just looks like some of them are not that passionate about this game as they say sometimes. What's understandable of course. Being burn out is something common.

Now we're able to understand why potential of this game was so much wasted. Like PvP for example.When some of us wanted to play better PvP in GW2. Some devs didn't care about it because they wanted to do new games.Well, PvP has been an issue from the release of this game. Particularly after playing GW1, the sPvP here has always seemed lacklustre. But I do think it's fair to say because we know that ArenaNet lost 35% of their staff and that other projects they were working on were cancelled. It's also during this time (2018) that they said that there wouldn't be any more expansions at least for some time. So that tells me that they were focusing on other things rather than giving GW2 the full attention.

In part I can understand it because for ArenaNet GW2 is what they make money with and I get that you may want to have something else next to that. But you may be right that they were a bit eager to jump on other things and kinda left GW2 a bit to the side. It certainly feels that way to me and they clearly are still not excited about making another expansion.

I do wonder now if Mike O'Brien is planning to make the spiritual successor for GW in his new company. Different name of course but I'm really interested in what he's going to do. Same thing with BioWare. Recently a lot of people have left there and also there some people set up a new studio.

I do not know what's going on in the game industry but I get the feeling that a lot of game companies have grown and become institutionalised. That means they got to a point where they were more concerned with themselves, their knowledge and experiences and internal processes rather than the customer. You see this in the communication across the industry. They are talking to players in marketing messages and non-committal, political statements and no longer speak WITH the players. They seem to think they know better what people want but I think they mistake what people will accept for what people actually want.

Maybe it's a good sign that there are troubles in studios and people going off and starting / joining new studios. Maybe just maybe they understand some things that they used to understand 10-20 years ago. Nowadays games are made to please shareholders and customers are really secondary in that. That's why it's good enough for them to keep people playing and spending rather than making things better or going the extra mile. And I'm not talking about those overworked developers that have way too much work stacked on them, but the people that lead them and have to answer to their bosses who answer to share holders. This is not EA but it's also not that as far away from it as it should perhaps.

MO did mention wanting to work on smaller games, so we might (and I'm using this term advisedly) see something along the lines of a mobile game. An MMO is certainly more massive, both in scope and in undertaking.

He did say smaller games, but he talked about going back to that time. So GW1 in other words which was a smaller game than GW2. GW1 was never a full MMO after all but I actually prefer the way it was set up. If it's a mobile game as you suggest I most certainly will not be interested.

[SnowMochi.7602]

@Gehenna.3625 said:He did say smaller games, but he talked about going back to that time. So GW1 in other words which was a smaller game than GW2. GW1 was never a full MMO after all but I actually prefer the way it was set up. If it's a mobile game as you suggest I most certainly will not be interested.

Same here. Mobile games just don't appeal to me, smartphone or no smartphone.

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

Looks like other former GW2 developers are going mobile under their Tenacious Entertainment brand. According to Venture Bests interview with then, the company want to focus on free to play concept, without the pay to win model. Looks like Anet did cultivate that kind of atmosphere.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

@XatraZaytrax.2601 said:Looks like other former GW2 developers are going mobile under their Tenacious Entertainment brand. According to Venture Bests interview with then, the company want to focus on free to play concept, without the pay to win model. Looks like Anet did cultivate that kind of atmosphere.

I just read that too.So I'm betting it was a Diablo style disaster incoming and that's why it was cancelled and everyone laid off.

[Batel.9206]

Holy necro, Batman! 😲 Two years! Did you not notice when this thread was made, or the date of the last post?

Edited January 18, 2022 by Batel.9206

[Gibson.4036]

18 minutes ago, Batel.9206 said:

Holy necro, Batman! 😲 Two years! Did you not notice when this thread was made, or the date of the last post?

TheOuroborus seems to be really digging today. The three year necro of the "Too many PoF mobs" is theirs, too.

There's axes to be ground!

Edited January 18, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[patton the great.7126]

Edit for edit necro

Edited January 18, 2022 by patton the great.7126

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Dear mods. Please install a feature where any thread that has been inactive for at least one year is auto locked. 
 

thanks. 

[Fenom.9457]

5 minutes ago, Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

Dear mods. Please install a feature where any thread that has been inactive for at least one year is auto locked. 
 

thanks. 

That’s not the solution, but I think a warning for someone who necros maybe 5 threads in more inside a week would be good 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Fenom.9457

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well after this Mike Zadorojny. took over only to leave for Amazon shortly after since then we have no clue who runs the house.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

Whats with all those necros over last couple days? Like for real why would you dig two years deep into list of threads even....

I second suggestion of autolocking inactive threads.

[ugrakarma.9416]

pre-pandemic matters make this necro even more Lolzzz. in 2045 and we in our 40º quarentine will be there  guys ressurrecting pre-covid  posts?

[Super Hayes.6890]

You know you can play a necro in game right?... Just sayin

[Serephen.3420]

6 hours ago, Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

Well after this Mike Zadorojny. took over only to leave for Amazon shortly after since then we have no clue who runs the house.

Didn't one of the founder return sometime last year? Can't believe I forgot his name😅