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Please lock or delete the thread is derailed to how the gem to gold conversion works


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@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210

You’re not answering the question... when I explained it before you said “no”, so you tell us how much real cash anet gets if you just exchanged gold to get 8,000 gems?

I already answered that question go back and read. I will say it again you can't just exchange gold to gems in the narrow definition like you would have us believe happens because all transaction in the exchange are via 3 parties.

The seller, the buyer and Anet. You simply do not see Anet's part clearly.

Anyways I had enough so you can go troll someone else kid.;)

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@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210

You’re not answering the question... when I explained it before you said “no”, so you tell us how much real cash anet gets if you just exchanged gold to get 8,000 gems?

Transaction 1: Someone spends 8000 gems at the cash shop for a super-deluxe mount skin.Transaction 2: Someone spends 8000 gems at the gold exchange to buy gold from you (the same transaction you keep describing, put in different words).

Arenanet gets exactly the same amount of real cash in each transaction. And that amount is... well, you seem to think you know, so what is it?

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@Swagger.1459 said:@"Calistin.6210"

Actually, you’re avoiding the question.

If you bought 8,000 gems with money then Anet earns how much?

If you exchanged gold to get 8,000 gems then Anet earned how much cash?

It's the same difference because the gems both will come from the same source, like I said you are being petty and pedantic simply to try and say "I was right and you are wrong" when actually you are simply refusing to acknowledge that Anet gets their 100$ regardless. In one process it involves more steps to the transaction is all.

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@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210

I'm trying to be helpful to you, so let's do this again.. Exactly how much money does anet earn if you exchange gold to get 8,000 gems?

They gain money from the person who see oh shit if I converted 1k gems to gold I get this much gold now better go buy before someone else do.And the cash from the original buyer of those 8k gems before they sold it for gold to get into the pool you bought from.

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@Calistin.6210 You should really think this through, because money doesn’t appear out of thin air on a gold to gem exchange.

You said “no” to my explanation, and you just said that you never said Anet earns $200 from those 2 different transactions. Yet, you just stated each transaction earns Anet the same amount... which you think those 2 exchanges makes for $200...

I’ll answer the questions for you...

Player buys 8,000 gems with cash = +$100 to Anet

Player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems = $0 spent by player and $0 earned by Anet from that player during that transaction. Period.

Fantasy gold to fantasy gems doesn’t magically turn into USD or EUR or WON.

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@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 You should really think this through, because money doesn’t appear out of thin air on a gold to gem exchange.

You should really think this through, because gems don't appear out of thin air on a gold to gem exchange, they get there because players buy them with real moneys and put them there. Arenanet isn't printing gems and giving them away for gold, so far as they have said or suggested. If you work on their exchange tech and know better, feel free to enlighten us.

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@Swagger.1459 said:@"perilisk.1874" How much money does Anet get from your bank account if you just exchanged gold to get 8,000 gems?

How much money does Anet get from my bank account if someone gives me a gem card for my birthday? If they get paid, they get paid, it doesn't matter whose account it comes from. I can't buy those gems from the exchange unless someone pays Arenanet to put them there.

It's just supply and demand (the exchange is supposedly modeled using some micro-econ type supply/demand curves or something, IIRC, with Arenanet certainly "taxing" each transaction as well). If I bought the gems for $$$ instead of gold, I would keep my gold instead of putting it on the exchange. As a result, supply on the gold exchange would decrease, therefore a new equilibrium would be reached at a lower demand point. "Lower demand point" is just another way of saying "fewer gems spent to buy gold".

When you refuse to put gold on the gold/gem exchange, you're just discouraging people who want to swipe for a legendary from buying gems, and practically stealing money from Anet's pocket. Shame on you!

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@perilisk.1874 You didn’t answer the question. You stated before that Anet earns $100 from that type of gold to gems transaction, so I want to know how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?

For reference...

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

No kidding, it’s pretty obvious that Anet makes money when someone buys gems...

A player exchanging gold to gems is a $0 transaction, that’s the point, but some are obviously unaware of this.

Uh no it's not a 0$ transaction because those gems were not aquired free, they didn't magically spawn from a chest in game like gold or drop from a boss etc etc. For it to be a 0$ transaction then the gems would have had to be generated in game from WITHIN the game eco system.

Instead someone spent real $$$ to buy those gems to then inject them into the "game eco sytem". As such every time someone buys gems with gold or gold with gem Anet has made $$$ because those gems come from only one source. Anet themselves as they are the only gem sellers which by defaults make anyone using gold to buy some Anets little gold bots for their gold selling business so to speak

Really? I would like you to tell me how much Anet money earns for their bank account if a player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems?

$100. You can be pedantic, I guess, and argue that they make nothing in that specific transaction because the price was paid when the gems were bought, not when they were spent to buy gold. But by that logic, nothing in the gem store makes them money.
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@Swagger.1459 said:@perilisk.1874 You didn’t answer the question. You stated before that Anet earns $100 from that type of gold to gems transaction, so I want to know how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?

For reference...

@Swagger.1459 said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

No kidding, it’s pretty obvious that Anet makes money when someone buys gems...

A player exchanging gold to gems is a $0 transaction, that’s the point, but some are obviously unaware of this.

Uh no it's not a 0$ transaction because those gems were not aquired free, they didn't magically spawn from a chest in game like gold or drop from a boss etc etc. For it to be a 0$ transaction then the gems would have had to be generated in game from WITHIN the game eco system.

Instead someone spent real $$$ to buy those gems to then inject them into the "game eco sytem". As such every time someone buys gems with gold or gold with gem Anet has made $$$ because those gems come from only one source. Anet themselves as they are the only gem sellers which by defaults make anyone using gold to buy some Anets little gold bots for their gold selling business so to speak

Really? I would like you to tell me how much Anet money earns for their bank account if a player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems?

$100. You can be pedantic, I guess, and argue that they make nothing in that specific transaction because the price was paid when the gems were bought, not when they were spent to buy gold. But by that logic, nothing in the gem store makes them money.

S/he have answered you mutiple times already, someone buy 8k gems for 100$ turns them into gems pool for gold, that someone else then buy for gold.So anet get 100$ for those gems.It dont matter that the person buying the gems for gold dident spend those cash themselfs anet still got paid.And if the gem to gold is to low people wont buy gems to turn into gold.So not buying gems with gold actualy hurt anet since the people not wanting anything from the gemstore wont spend cash to gain gold.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@perilisk.1874 You didn’t answer the question. You stated before that Anet earns $100 from that type of gold to gems transaction, so I want to know how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?

For reference...

@Swagger.1459 said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

No kidding, it’s pretty obvious that Anet makes money when someone buys gems...

A player exchanging gold to gems is a $0 transaction, that’s the point, but some are obviously unaware of this.

Uh no it's not a 0$ transaction because those gems were not aquired free, they didn't magically spawn from a chest in game like gold or drop from a boss etc etc. For it to be a 0$ transaction then the gems would have had to be generated in game from WITHIN the game eco system.

Instead someone spent real $$$ to buy those gems to then inject them into the "game eco sytem". As such every time someone buys gems with gold or gold with gem Anet has made $$$ because those gems come from only one source. Anet themselves as they are the only gem sellers which by defaults make anyone using gold to buy some Anets little gold bots for their gold selling business so to speak

Really? I would like you to tell me how much Anet money earns for their bank account if a player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems?

$100. You can be pedantic, I guess, and argue that they make nothing in that specific transaction because the price was paid when the gems were bought, not when they were spent to buy gold. But by that logic, nothing in the gem store makes them money.

S/he have answered you mutiple times already, someone buy 8k gems for 100$ turns them into gems pool for gold, that someone else then buy for gold.So anet get 100$ for those gems.It dont matter that the person buying the gems for gold dident spend those cash themselfs anet still got paid.And if the gem to gold is to low people wont buy gems to turn into gold.So not buying gems with gold actualy hurt anet since the people not wanting anything from the gemstore wont spend cash to gain gold.

That’s not answering the question... Maybe reread it.

This was the question... “how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?”

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@perilisk.1874 You didn’t answer the question. You stated before that Anet earns $100 from that type of gold to gems transaction, so I want to know how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?

For reference...

@Swagger.1459 said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

No kidding, it’s pretty obvious that Anet makes money when someone buys gems...

A player exchanging gold to gems is a $0 transaction, that’s the point, but some are obviously unaware of this.

Uh no it's not a 0$ transaction because those gems were not aquired free, they didn't magically spawn from a chest in game like gold or drop from a boss etc etc. For it to be a 0$ transaction then the gems would have had to be generated in game from WITHIN the game eco system.

Instead someone spent real $$$ to buy those gems to then inject them into the "game eco sytem". As such every time someone buys gems with gold or gold with gem Anet has made $$$ because those gems come from only one source. Anet themselves as they are the only gem sellers which by defaults make anyone using gold to buy some Anets little gold bots for their gold selling business so to speak

Really? I would like you to tell me how much Anet money earns for their bank account if a player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems?

$100. You can be pedantic, I guess, and argue that they make nothing in that specific transaction because the price was paid when the gems were bought, not when they were spent to buy gold. But by that logic, nothing in the gem store makes them money.

S/he have answered you mutiple times already, someone buy 8k gems for 100$ turns them into gems pool for gold, that someone else then buy for gold.So anet get 100$ for those gems.It dont matter that the person buying the gems for gold dident spend those cash themselfs anet still got paid.And if the gem to gold is to low people wont buy gems to turn into gold.So not buying gems with gold actualy hurt anet since the people not wanting anything from the gemstore wont spend cash to gain gold.

That’s not answering the question... Maybe reread it.

This was the question... “how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?”

Well nothing from the bank account but the time to gather all that gold has a worth aswell, ever heard the time is money line?

So your question is a silly line in the sand mate stop asking it.

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At the end of the day, ANET earns plenty of money to develop good content....but, they are getting stingy with the content while asking for more and more money.That should be the economic dilemma everyone is focused on...not the gold-gem exchanges.Most people would rather buy a packaged good (like an expansion) which is a one-time expense that satisfies the majority of players rather than receiving living story content and getting nickeled and dimed for every little thing in between.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@perilisk.1874 You didn’t answer the question. You stated before that Anet earns $100 from that type of gold to gems transaction, so I want to know how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?

For reference...

@Swagger.1459 said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

No kidding, it’s pretty obvious that Anet makes money when someone buys gems...

A player exchanging gold to gems is a $0 transaction, that’s the point, but some are obviously unaware of this.

Uh no it's not a 0$ transaction because those gems were not aquired free, they didn't magically spawn from a chest in game like gold or drop from a boss etc etc. For it to be a 0$ transaction then the gems would have had to be generated in game from WITHIN the game eco system.

Instead someone spent real $$$ to buy those gems to then inject them into the "game eco sytem". As such every time someone buys gems with gold or gold with gem Anet has made $$$ because those gems come from only one source. Anet themselves as they are the only gem sellers which by defaults make anyone using gold to buy some Anets little gold bots for their gold selling business so to speak

Really? I would like you to tell me how much Anet money earns for their bank account if a player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems?

$100. You can be pedantic, I guess, and argue that they make nothing in that specific transaction because the price was paid when the gems were bought, not when they were spent to buy gold. But by that logic, nothing in the gem store makes them money.

S/he have answered you mutiple times already, someone buy 8k gems for 100$ turns them into gems pool for gold, that someone else then buy for gold.So anet get 100$ for those gems.It dont matter that the person buying the gems for gold dident spend those cash themselfs anet still got paid.And if the gem to gold is to low people wont buy gems to turn into gold.So not buying gems with gold actualy hurt anet since the people not wanting anything from the gemstore wont spend cash to gain gold.

That’s not answering the question... Maybe reread it.

This was the question... “how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?”

Well nothing from the bank account but the time to gather all that gold has a worth aswell, ever heard the time is money line?

So your question is a silly line in the sand mate stop asking it.

So on the topic of how Anet monetizes the game, someone exchanging gold for gems doesn’t spend a penny. Thank you for answering and for highlighting how generous Anet really is.

Yeah, but player “time” doesn’t fund the game with money.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:@perilisk.1874 You didn’t answer the question. You stated before that Anet earns $100 from that type of gold to gems transaction, so I want to know how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?

For reference...

@Swagger.1459 said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

No kidding, it’s pretty obvious that Anet makes money when someone buys gems...

A player exchanging gold to gems is a $0 transaction, that’s the point, but some are obviously unaware of this.

Uh no it's not a 0$ transaction because those gems were not aquired free, they didn't magically spawn from a chest in game like gold or drop from a boss etc etc. For it to be a 0$ transaction then the gems would have had to be generated in game from WITHIN the game eco system.

Instead someone spent real $$$ to buy those gems to then inject them into the "game eco sytem". As such every time someone buys gems with gold or gold with gem Anet has made $$$ because those gems come from only one source. Anet themselves as they are the only gem sellers which by defaults make anyone using gold to buy some Anets little gold bots for their gold selling business so to speak

Really? I would like you to tell me how much Anet money earns for their bank account if a player exchanges gold to get 8,000 gems?

$100. You can be pedantic, I guess, and argue that they make nothing in that specific transaction because the price was paid when the gems were bought, not when they were spent to buy gold. But by that logic, nothing in the gem store makes them money.

S/he have answered you mutiple times already, someone buy 8k gems for 100$ turns them into gems pool for gold, that someone else then buy for gold.So anet get 100$ for those gems.It dont matter that the person buying the gems for gold dident spend those cash themselfs anet still got paid.And if the gem to gold is to low people wont buy gems to turn into gold.So not buying gems with gold actualy hurt anet since the people not wanting anything from the gemstore wont spend cash to gain gold.

That’s not answering the question... Maybe reread it.

This was the question... “how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?”

Well nothing from the bank account but the time to gather all that gold has a worth aswell, ever heard the time is money line?

So your question is a silly line in the sand mate stop asking it.

So on the topic of how Anet monetizes the game, someone exchanging gold for gems doesn’t spend a penny. Thank you for answering and for highlighting how generous Anet really is.

It's not generosity. People are sadly not motivated to play merely by fun, they also want to earn in-game rewards. So long as rewards can be traded, there needs to be a medium of exchange, and way to earn it. Thus, there will be gold, it will drop in game, and some people will want to shortcut the in-game effort to earn in-game rewards by using real-world money. Arenanet put the gold exchange in place to cut black market gold sellers out of the loop, and force people to purchase gold through Arenanet.

Only rewards are in cash shop: Game is no fun, it fails.

No gold: No economy, too many constraints to create a good reward system, game fails.

Sell gold directly without player inputs: Too gross, damages economy, devalues in game rewards, game fails. Just an indirect version of "only rewards are in cash shop", and creates a strong incentive to make everything pricier and pricier while being stingier and stingier with in-game gold drops.

No gem/gold exchange: Gold-sellers run rampant, game is probably fine but less profit for Arenanet.

No one puts gold on gold exchange: No one spends gems at gold exchange, less profit for Arenanet. If I can't buy mount skins for gold, you can't buy Legendaries for $$$.

Just accept that if people don't put gold on the gem/gold exchange, it costs Arenanet money. While they could have chosen not let people obtain gem shop rewards this way, it would have just meant people who might have paid Arenanet for gems would instead pay gold sellers for gold, which costs Arenanet money. If they just decided to force everyone to get everything from the cash shop (or let them buy gold outright without other players needing to make some effort), the game would suck and everyone would quit, which costs Arenanet money.

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@Swagger.1459
I am not sure generous is the word I would use for ANETThe people that played and funded this game over the years were the generous ones. But, anet squandered some of that funding on other projects...got behind on their main project and are trying to play catch-up.Is it not natural that people are a little more critical and holding more tightly to their wallets?

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Good grief! ANet has monetized gold selling via the exchange. You're isolating one part of a more complex system.

Gold in the exchange is coming from players who are putting it into the system to get gems. Given the system as is, if there is no gold going into the system, there's no reason to spend cash for gems to get gold. ANet would lose that revenue. How much cash would the people exchanging for gold spend if they got no gold?

Therefore, that a player exchanging for gems puts no cash into the system is irrelevant. What's relevant is that someone is putting in cash and that cash would not be spent without the reason the player wants to spent it. This makes the gold contributor an enabler in the system which generates revenue for ANet.

Could ANet just "make" gold and put it into the exchange? Sure. So, why don't they? At a guess, there are two reasons. Inflation is one. The other is the negative reaction (and maybe publicity) that would surely come if ANet chose to take that approach. That it takes two players to generate a sum for ANet is actually good. It enables ANet to monetize those who want gold and get those who want gems -- who are unlikely to spend cash for them -- to participate. The fact that when more players input gold, the exchange rate changes in favor of those buying the gems is an added benefit. Another is that those wanting to buy gold can do so without compromising their accounts. This system is actually very well-designed. It's very likely a big part of ANet's revenue generation.

So, congratulations? You "won" a point because you were willing to look at one small part of the exchange without also acknowledging that it's the entire system that counts. Sometimes you have to look at the forest, not the trees.

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Don't know, i'll continue to play the game as long as there is something left that I enjoy. Haven't spend a dime in quite a while. Yet I am pretty sure quite a few of us, myself included, would be better off clocking some extra hours at work to then trade gems for gold rather than farm anything in the game if we are talking about spending your time efficiently to "acquire" gold.However, the only content I actually play is content I enjoy, and it already provides me with more than enough gold to trade for gems. Don't see why I would be complaining as I am able to get everything I want while playing what I like best. They could remove the trading option which them would certainly force me (and many others like me) to spend cash on the game while hoarding gold for no reason. Thus I would certainly call them generous with their monetization. Have yet to play any similar game that didn't have at least some "premium" currency which could not be acquired in-game.

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@perilisk.1874 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.

But they do make money when people buy gems to exchange for gold. The exchange rate is reactive. Every time people buy gems with gold, it moves the exchange rate in favor of gems (that is, gems can buy more gold), which makes it cheaper to buy in-game items with fixed gold prices, like icy runestones or the griffon mount. That implicitly raises the value of gems, which entices more people to buy them.

A person that does 10x Raids get 200 goldA person that pays will real money will get 250 goldSo if some1 wants some small costs item from the Trading Posts , he better of go farming , because he dont get a trementous amount of boost , with real money .A person that wants a Costumes , wont transform their real cash > gems > gold>gems >buy item , to benefit for the ''boost'' of gold from from other playersAnd even then , the system will takes a 25% cut , going back at 200 goldThat why the company said many times that low costs items > ppl wont buy them with cash .And when they cost 400 gems , but was RNG , ppl whined about predator mechanics .malaka

Different thing is the ingame economy:The gold i got 20 min agao by coverting gold>gems , i ''bought'' them from some1 who spent real money 5 years .We the players use existing money from day 1 launch of GW2 till now that is circulated throught the system)Recycle-Circulation of PAST BITCOIN MONEY is different thing from NEEDING NOW 10/10/2019 REAL MONEY TO KEEP THE SERVERS UPTHE BITCOIN MONEY OF THE PAST have been alreaydy used to create the content like LS2 or Living Story 3 , or pay the 400 workers10/10/2019 NEW REAL MONEY (not gold>gems) is needed to create new content a.k.a LS6 or 3rd expanion or play the 288 workersYou are curently using old money .... used money....already spent....caput money...bitcoins......circulated....bought from some1 4-5 years ago whos doesnt play or breathes...

Different thing ingame economy , effecting players / different thing to keep up the servers

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@Swagger.1459 said:@Vancho.8750 This game exists because of money, not the goodwill of donors or volunteers.Without the goodwill of players, this game would be dead. And then, there would be no money.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@perilisk.1874 said:Selling gold makes gems more valuable in terms of gold, though, so you're still indirectly helping to monetize.

Sorry, but Anet makes exactly $0 dollars when someone exchanges gold to gems.Not directly. But indirectly, they make a ton of dollars out of that. Why? Because if not for people exchanging gold to gems, there would be no people exchanging gems to gold. And if there were no such people, noone would be buying gems for RL cash in order to exchange them for gold.

@Swagger.1459 said:This was the question... “how much Anet deducts from your bank account if you just exchanged gold for 8,000 gems?”Zero.How much Anet deducts from my bank account if i buy stuff from gemshop for 8000 gems?Also zero.How much anet
earns
in the second case?100 USDHow much Anet
earns
in the first case?The same, also 100 USD.

Anet doesn't need to deduct the money from your bank account for a specific transaction to profit from the same transaction. And they do profit. Don't believe otherwise.

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