Death in-game

[Rognik.2579]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:When you 'die' in the story and have to reload a checkpoint is like when you are playing Price of Persia and you 'die', but the narrator, who is also the prince, goes "No wait, that is not how it happened", and the checkpoint is loaded.Except that, if you do reload and you're close enough to the boss battle or the NPCs are still battling you, you can still see that his health is low. So it's not exactly rewinding time, but the PC reviving at said checkpoint. Basically, we the player are too important to die and are thus cursed to live no matter what.

That, or it's a video game and few people enjoy a permadeath system.

[Rognik.2579]

@Thalador.4218 said:Funny thing is, just like with so many other aspects of the lore / story, the writers have become quite inconsistent within this topic as well. While originally it was stated that the PCs cannot die and only become defeated, get knocked out (with eyes rolled up and no respiration... strange way to be unconscious), by now certain NPCs speak of the downed state as being on the very doorstep of death. The Shining Blade guy who teaches us Signet of Agony in Lake Doric says that with us being "one foot in the Mists" it's easier to tap into those unobtainable magics that make Spectral Agony possible. The PC even jokes he/she likes to avoid those "almost dead" moments.

The second NPC who debunks the original concept of "being defeated and not dead" is the Siren Master, who claims when asked about Dwayna's Dirge that "fallen allies will find new vigor and be warded against death." He even goes as far as to get the PC killed by a roaming mass of darkness that kitten the life force out of the PC - sending them straight into "defeated" state - in order to demonstrate the power of the Preservation of Life, which is effectively a resurrection spell.

Of course, story-wise, from a strictly canon perspective the Commander never dies, and I'd even assume doesn't even get defeated (especially not in fights where the stakes are so high that death/losing consciousness could result in getting corrupted by an ED). All those silly moments of us falling to our deaths, being burned to cinders in lava, getting disemboweled by a saurian, or roflstomped by mushroom royalty are just the figments of our imagination (or visions of possible deadly scenarios that must be averted like in that Nick Cage movie - Next, I think?). Then again, the writers have most likely forgotten this tidbit from the past as well and gone ahead with the notion that downed is being near death and from there we'd pass straight into the Mists if not for the fact that we're wearing plot armor / it's just a mechanism.

Well, for the first one, when we're learning about the Signet of Agony, when you're downed, you are pretty weak, and are probably in a state of "one foot in the Mists". You can be dying and not dead, and healed from such a state (theoretically). So this isn't a contradiction at all, at least in my eyes.

As for the Siren Master, you have to remember that he comes from a time before the Searing (or perhaps even earlier) where people actually were raised from the dead thank to Dwayna's blessing and the numerous resurrect skills monks could learn. His perception of the world would be different from actual living non-ghost characters, and perhaps Dwayna's Durge could raise the dead if you could sing it before such a state occurs. Sadly, the power only seems to manifest in that one area of Orr, so we'll never be able to test it out.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Thalador.4218 said:Funny thing is, just like with so many other aspects of the lore / story, the writers have become quite inconsistent within this topic as well. While originally it was stated that the PCs cannot die and only become defeated, get knocked out (with eyes rolled up and no respiration... strange way to be unconscious), by now certain NPCs speak of the downed state as being on the very doorstep of death. The Shining Blade guy who teaches us Signet of Agony in Lake Doric says that with us being "one foot in the Mists" it's easier to tap into those unobtainable magics that make Spectral Agony possible. The PC even jokes he/she likes to avoid those "almost dead" moments.

-snip rest-

I tend to liken the Downed state to D&D's bleeding out state, while defeated is a stabilized state. In both cases, you're not dead, but you're very close to death. Downed is still being "at death's door" in such a situation - and so would defeated. But while downed you can still act, defeated you cannot.

I do not see the Siren Master as saying we actually die, as the purpose is to ward against death - warding against is not the same as revoking, which resurrection would be. "Fallen allies" doesn't necessarily mean "dead allies" either. I think the wording is ambiguous enough to take it as either or, however.

And all the cases where honestly we should die (falling from 100 feet, burning to unconsciousness in lava, etc.) I would just slap on the suspension of belief that nearly every book, movie, and especially game requires. Without such, we'd have nothing but roguelike games.

[Pink Porcupine.5461]

I feel like death hasn't really been touched in GW2, but the best estimate I can drum up is that permanent GW2 death is the separation of body and soul. In the context of mechanics coinciding with lore, being defeated means your soul is still in your body and therefore resurrect-able/teleported/etc.

[Nox Lucis.8341]

@Rawr.9467 said:

@EnemyCrusher.7324 said:In GW2, player characters never actually die, they're just

defeated

.

Yea that doesn't really answer anything. That's just the in game mechanics. I mean lore wise (hence the forum) why can we get up after falling from the top of Verdant Brink? How am I only defeated?

A full suit of lv80 Ascended quality plot armor.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

I know it's unlikely, but has the idea of an otherworldly force keeping us alive be probable? There's so many ways we can die in this game, and so many things we've survived that have been more than improbable. All I can think of is some otherworldly force such as maybe the Mists themselves keeping us going. After all, certain instances reset should you die, which makes me think of how the fractals work in general, reliving events over and over again.

[Tabasco.1743]

The protagonist never dies in the narrative! Dying (Defeat) is just a penalty for you screwing up the protagonist's story, you butterfingers.LOL This thread. This is why I like GuildWars community. All of this to explain why we can re-spawn in a game.11/10 <3

[Nox Lucis.8341]

Played through PoF campaign.This thread is funny now.