Disappointment of a class, disappointment of an elite spec

[Sobx.1758]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

That or just stun the thief and sneeze on him to down him.

As if any competent thief lets himself get stunned, or gets stunned without any stunbreak rdy, nice jokeAs if any competent warrior lets himself get bursted by a thief, that's a better joke.

Sooner or later he will land one, since he can easily reset the fight over and over again, also sword thiefs dont even need to burst you down, they can wear you down slowly, poison and not landing bursts will prevent most of the warriors healing

By your own logic, thief will get stunned without a stunbreak rdy "sooner or later". Or is this another one of those imaginary situations in which my opponent can play perfectly and I can't just so I can pretend I have a point, so warrior will make a mistake "sooner or later" (while not landing bursts btw), but his opponent won't?

Seriously, either I'm missing something here or I really don't understand your way of thinking, where the only misplays that happen are the ones I WANT to happen.

If he gets stunned he has a stunbreak rdy, if he has none rdy, he wont reengage. He is the one who can decide to reset the fight, if its going in his favor, because the warrior made a mistake, he keeps pressuring, if he makes a mistake he resets the fight and waits for cooldowns. The warriir kittens up and gets hunted down by the thief because of superior mobility and no access to stealth. Whats not to understand about that?

So all your claims are based on thief holding his resources back just so he can back out in the first place and you still can't win against him?

[RedShark.9548]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

That or just stun the thief and sneeze on him to down him.

As if any competent thief lets himself get stunned, or gets stunned without any stunbreak rdy, nice jokeAs if any competent warrior lets himself get bursted by a thief, that's a better joke.

Sooner or later he will land one, since he can easily reset the fight over and over again, also sword thiefs dont even need to burst you down, they can wear you down slowly, poison and not landing bursts will prevent most of the warriors healing

By your own logic, thief will get stunned without a stunbreak rdy "sooner or later". Or is this another one of those imaginary situations in which my opponent can play perfectly and I can't just so I can pretend I have a point, so warrior will make a mistake "sooner or later" (while not landing bursts btw), but his opponent won't?

Seriously, either I'm missing something here or I really don't understand your way of thinking, where the only misplays that happen are the ones I WANT to happen.

If he gets stunned he has a stunbreak rdy, if he has none rdy, he wont reengage. He is the one who can decide to reset the fight, if its going in his favor, because the warrior made a mistake, he keeps pressuring, if he makes a mistake he resets the fight and waits for cooldowns. The warriir kittens up and gets hunted down by the thief because of superior mobility and no access to stealth. Whats not to understand about that?

So all your claims are based on thief holding his resources back just so he can back out in the first place and you still can't win against him?

Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

And to the OP I disagree I think warrior and spell breaker are a blast to play and are great iterations of the class. Berserker definitely could use some love to fine tune it and give it more identity within the class but core warrior and splb are fun as hell imo and versatile as well.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Sry just realized kinda necro's thread

[Rix.8510]

Warrior is fine for pvp. No need for buffs. The current builds work well.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Rampage is not getting nerfed, its literally being gutted. Enjoy it while u can.

[RedShark.9548]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?But yet u state that the other poster is obviosly trolling and reference him as saying the same thing but opposite of what u said as a example of his trolling?

[RedShark.9548]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?But yet u state that the other poster is obviosly trolling and reference him as saying the same thing but opposite of what u said as a example of his trolling?

Ferus said that sobx is a major troll... Not me, i just dont agree with his arguments

[Psycoprophet.8107]

A good warrior can down a good thief and is definitely a better 1v1 class/and specs than thief could dream of being. When spellbreaker get delegated to +1 and avoid 1v1's for yrs than compare.sure thief had the meme bunker staff/staff and cond s/d that was good at 1v1 but as we all knew that would get nerfed putting them back while warrior will always and should always remain a great dueler

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?But yet u state that the other poster is obviosly trolling and reference him as saying the same thing but opposite of what u said as a example of his trolling?

Ferus said that sobx is a major troll... Not me, i just dont agree with his arguments

Well if I missunderstood than I apologize. Just was funny seeing people call each other trolls but stating the same thing as each but reversed lolBut ur right he's wrong a good thief can definitely down a good warrior no doubt

[Sobx.1758]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?But yet u state that the other poster is obviosly trolling and reference him as saying the same thing but opposite of what u said as a example of his trolling?

Ferus said that sobx is a major troll... Not me, i just dont agree with his arguments

Well if I missunderstood than I apologize. Just was funny seeing people call each other trolls but stating the same thing as each but reversed lolBut ur right he's wrong a good thief can definitely down a good warrior no doubt

From what I remember, I've never said a thief can't down a warrior. It would be awesome if people stopped claiming I said something when I clearly didn't.Unless you're suddenly not talking about me, then I'm lost.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?But yet u state that the other poster is obviosly trolling and reference him as saying the same thing but opposite of what u said as a example of his trolling?

Ferus said that sobx is a major troll... Not me, i just dont agree with his arguments

Well if I missunderstood than I apologize. Just was funny seeing people call each other trolls but stating the same thing as each but reversed lolBut ur right he's wrong a good thief can definitely down a good warrior no doubt

From what I remember, I've never said a thief can't down a warrior. It would be awesome if people stopped claiming I said something when I clearly didn't.Unless you're suddenly not talking about me, then I'm lost.

No I never stated u did, the claim that u did came from those above, I just stated had u then it would be wrong as would a warrior saying any engagements with a thief result 8n a warriors loss.

[Sobx.1758]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Seriously? Their may have been other instances but in this case it seems hes trying to be neutral and red shark is the obvious one trolling as if thieves are unbeatable when playing warrior which is complete fallacy as I've downed either using either class. I'd say when comes to warrior and thief sparing off it's the player making the difference not class.

So stating my opinion, that a good thief will never be downed by a warrior, is obvious trolling? Wow dude, you sure thats how you want to treat ppl that arent agreing with you?But yet u state that the other poster is obviosly trolling and reference him as saying the same thing but opposite of what u said as a example of his trolling?

Ferus said that sobx is a major troll... Not me, i just dont agree with his arguments

Well if I missunderstood than I apologize. Just was funny seeing people call each other trolls but stating the same thing as each but reversed lolBut ur right he's wrong a good thief can definitely down a good warrior no doubt

From what I remember, I've never said a thief can't down a warrior. It would be awesome if people stopped claiming I said something when I clearly didn't.Unless you're suddenly not talking about me, then I'm lost.

the claim that u did came from those above

Ah yes. I assume from the @Ferus.3165 comment that called me "a major troll" in the same post he literally made up a bunch of lies about what I said (when in reality I didn't). I commented on that and he disappeared, so let that show who's the actual troll here.But fine, I understand his false claims are where your misguided opinion came from, no problem.

[Obtena.7952]

@Ferus.3165 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Because thief has to hold back oh so much to back out of a fight, okey, goodbye.

that sobx guy is a major troll in this forum... just ignore whatever he is on about atm and read more constructive and serious posts of other users. From his perspective thief always loses against any kind of warrior and warrior is generally so op that it should be instantly deleted from the game :D

Maybe ... but he's right this time. People will concoct whatever scenario to suit their side of the argument ... that's what's happening. The outcome of a scenario where a perfect player meets a terrible one is not a reasonable position to base an argument. Outliers = sensational.

His advice is already right on the money ... if you don't like a class/build/spec/trait/whatever for what you want to do ... don't use it. The choices are massive and if you want to balance playstyle vs. performance vs whatever other factors you want to evaluate something, it is exactly the reason Anet gives us choices.

[Yumenei.7943]

While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

[RedShark.9548]

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

[Obtena.7952]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

[Yumenei.7943]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Yes, there is no point balancing largely team-based game around 1vs1 scenarios as it will only do more harm than good. Besides, while warrior is doing rather poorly vs thieves and mesmers, he can comfortably solo most other classes and is very useful class to have in a group combat, which is a good trade off.

Although one thing I hate about current meta is how condi-heavy it is. My issue with condi is how completely brain-dead source of damage it is. It burns through blocks and evades, it doesn’t require to keep constant contact with enemy (like power classes have to) and is designed for idiots that don’t know how to handle a proper fight. Just keep condis on and run circles around obstacles until your foe is dead. Rinse and repeat... no skill required.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Omernon.9762 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Yes, there is no point balancing largely team-based game around 1vs1 scenarios as it will only do more harm than good. Besides, while warrior is doing rather poorly vs thieves and mesmers, he can comfortably solo most other classes and is very useful class to have in a group combat, which is a good trade off.

Although one thing I hate about current meta is how condi-heavy it is. My issue with condi is how completely brain-dead source of damage it is. It burns through blocks and evades, it doesn’t require to keep constant contact with enemy (like power classes have to) and is designed for idiots that don’t know how to handle a proper fight. Just keep condis on and run circles around obstacles until your foe is dead. Rinse and repeat... no skill required.

Mesmer is a great deal easier on Berserker. Headbutt the clones and use Arc Divider clear the screen including the Mesmer.

[Yumenei.7943]

LOL yeah, true, but I find berserker too cheesy outside of WvW and duo queue to consider playing it. Everyone and their mother will try to focus you, chain-CCing you and if you miss your Arc Divider, then you’re in big trouble. Good spec, but too risky for my taste.

Although I might give it one more try.

[RedShark.9548]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Omernon.9762 said:LOL yeah, true, but I find berserker too cheesy outside of WvW and duo queue to consider playing it. Everyone and their mother will try to focus you, chain-CCing you and if you miss your Arc Divider, then you’re in big trouble. Good spec, but too risky for my taste.

Although I might give it one more try.

It is a high risk high reward spec. Take as much sustain as you feel you need. I find it easier to go all in when I roam as a berserker personally, but if that is too risky for you then try the rousing resilience variant with tempest runes. It is fairly solid sustain. In my experience as a berserker mesmers have been free bags.

[Obtena.7952]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

There isn't an answer to that ... it depends who is playing, it depends on how they are playing it. Not really much value in arguing such a thing anyways.

[RedShark.9548]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

There isn't an answer to that ... it depends who is playing, it depends on how they are playing it. Not really much value in arguing such a thing anyways.

Thats your opinion, i believe that different classes have different difficulties of encounters, you might disagree and tell me that every class has the same chance against every other class...

Im just stating my opinion, that a skilled thief will have the upper hand against a skilled warrior.In low skill areas the warrior will probably win, because the thief really needs to know when to dodge etc.

But i dont rly look at low skilled encounters, balance should be around players who know what their class can do.