Disappointment of a class, disappointment of an elite spec

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Certain classes are certainly easier matchups depending on spec. But that may also be relative to the player.

[Obtena.7952]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Omernon.9762 said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

There isn't an answer to that ... it depends who is playing, it depends on how they are playing it. Not really much value in arguing such a thing anyways.

Thats your opinion, i believe that different classes have different difficulties of encounters, you might disagree and tell me that every class has the same chance against every other class...

Im just stating my opinion, that a skilled thief will have the upper hand against a skilled warrior.In low skill areas the warrior will probably win, because the thief really needs to know when to dodge etc.

But i dont rly look at low skilled encounters, balance should be around players who know what their class can do.

No, it's not an opinion. Player skill MOST DEFINITELY has an impact on the outcome of these fights.

And no, i'm not telling you every class has the same chance against every other class. I'm saying you don't know because it depends on the players more than the class.

[RedShark.9548]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Omernon.9762" said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

There isn't an answer to that ... it depends who is playing, it depends on how they are playing it. Not really much value in arguing such a thing anyways.

Thats your opinion, i believe that different classes have different difficulties of encounters, you might disagree and tell me that every class has the same chance against every other class...

Im just stating my opinion, that a skilled thief will have the upper hand against a skilled warrior.In low skill areas the warrior will probably win, because the thief really needs to know when to dodge etc.

But i dont rly look at low skilled encounters, balance should be around players who know what their class can do.

No, it's not an opinion. Player skill MOST DEFINITELY has an impact on the outcome of these fights.

And no, i'm not telling you every class has the same chance against every other class. I'm saying you don't know because it depends on the players more than the class.

Ofc player skill has an impact but when comparing specs i assume both players are on the same skill level, everything else would be kitten. Whats so hard to understand about that?

Why do you think i made a distinction between low skilled players war vs thief and high skilled warrior vs thief?

And i said "thats your opinion" because you made it sound like you think only skill determines who wins a fight, which is simply not true.

And with around 4k hours on warrior in mostly wvw and pvp im pretty confident to know whats a good and whats a bad matchup. So id say yes, i do know.

[Lighter.5631]

.> @Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Omernon.9762" said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

There isn't an answer to that ... it depends who is playing, it depends on how they are playing it. Not really much value in arguing such a thing anyways.

Thats your opinion, i believe that different classes have different difficulties of encounters, you might disagree and tell me that every class has the same chance against every other class...

Im just stating my opinion, that a skilled thief will have the upper hand against a skilled warrior.In low skill areas the warrior will probably win, because the thief really needs to know when to dodge etc.

But i dont rly look at low skilled encounters, balance should be around players who know what their class can do.

No, it's not an opinion. Player skill MOST DEFINITELY has an impact on the outcome of these fights.

And no, i'm not telling you every class has the same chance against every other class. I'm saying you don't know because it depends on the players more than the class.

Please don't appear in any argument if all you can talk about is non sense that contribute nothing to the actual comparison.what is "depends on player skill" when we talk about two classes, aren't we automatically assume both parties have equal skill level, that should be the starting point of such arguments or i'm too dumb to think that everybody thinks this way.

when you bringing unbalanced matter (like different skill level) on the table, you automatically lose any argument sorry.

[Obtena.7952]

@Lighter.5631 said:.> @Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Omernon.9762" said:While both sides are right; good warrior absolutely can take down good DD and vice versa, then there is also no doubt that when you’re a warrior you have to land your shots perfectly and even then there is no guarantee that thief will not reset the fight.

Personally I have most problems with condi DDs as time is always in their favor. Evade is the best type of defense in GW2 and while it’s active, you can’t do anything. So if you have any ping disadvantage over your opponent then the fight is over for you.

Right, thats what annoys me so much, i absolutely agree, a warrior can beat a thief, BUT unless the thief isnt getting oneshot he will most likey just run and reset, rinse repeat until the warrior starts losing and then chase him down, because warrior is unlikely to outrun a thief.

The argument that a class beats another isn't even a good reason to consider changing something to begin with. What makes anyone think Anet hasn't designed it to work this way in the first place? The idea that a thief harasses players isn't some weird concept ... it's typical. You're right ... he will do that and I bet that since they have been doing that for 7 years now .. it's not just some coincidence either.

Thats not even rly the point here, i never said i wanted to change thief (tbh i wouldnt care if thief was deleted) we were arguing wether thief or warrior wins in a duel.

There isn't an answer to that ... it depends who is playing, it depends on how they are playing it. Not really much value in arguing such a thing anyways.

Thats your opinion, i believe that different classes have different difficulties of encounters, you might disagree and tell me that every class has the same chance against every other class...

Im just stating my opinion, that a skilled thief will have the upper hand against a skilled warrior.In low skill areas the warrior will probably win, because the thief really needs to know when to dodge etc.

But i dont rly look at low skilled encounters, balance should be around players who know what their class can do.

No, it's not an opinion. Player skill MOST DEFINITELY has an impact on the outcome of these fights.

And no, i'm not telling you every class has the same chance against every other class. I'm saying you don't know because it depends on the players more than the class.

Please don't appear in any argument if all you can talk about is non sense that contribute nothing to the actual comparison.what is "depends on player skill" when we talk about two classes, aren't we automatically assume both parties have equal skill level, that should be the starting point of such arguments or i'm too dumb to think that everybody thinks this way.

when you bringing unbalanced matter (like different skill level) on the table, you automatically lose any argument sorry.

There isn't a sensible comparison to make. You can make all the assumptions you want and when you do that, you narrows your arguments down to a scenario so specific and unlikely that it renders any conclusions you make about performance almost irrelevant to the reality of the game.

I mean, it doesn't even matter if class X vs. Class y has some outcome anyways ... because that's not how any reasonable dev would balance the class when there are many possible combinations of class vs class match up in the first place.

So here is my recommendation ... please don't appear in any argument about game changes if you can only contribute low possibility, cherry-picked scenarios about one class vs. another. When you bring contrived scenarios on the table, you automatically lose any argument ... not sorry.

[Mikali.9651]

I wish Warrior was more about stance dancing, like in Guild Wars. It would be so interesting to see stances on much lower cooldown and shorter duration:

Frenzy, 5-sec duration, 10-sec cooldown, not giving might anymore, your attacks are unblockable for the first 3 seconds and you can't be blinded, take 33% more damage (instead of 50% or double like it was, just because I like this part of a risk Frenzy had)

give us a new Sprint-like skill - 8-sec duration, 15-sec cooldown - remove impairing conditions and gain swiftness for the duration. Gain immunity against impairing conditions for 4 seconds. Similar to Featherfoot Grace but still a lot different and could be used as a vanilla warrior. You could even make it Elite stance skill - I would gladly use it instead of the Signet of Rage.

Oh yeah, and remove Endure Pain - even I as the main warrior do not enjoy having it, I would rather gain something similar to Garen's Courage skill (LoL) - for X duration you receive 33% less damage (it could be a protection boon so it can be stripped), and on initial cast you gain X amount of barrier for X seconds. And if not going that way and still want to keep Endure Pain - just remove lesser Endure Pain - I do not like lazy passive effects.

I mean, not needed to change skills in such a way, but I would actually like to see stances nerfed in duration and even power, but gaining much shorter cooldown so a warrior can again become the profession which needs to carefully stance dance - just something, so it is not so one dimensional anymore.

[Henry.5713]

There have been many periods of warrior core builds outperforming their respective elite spec counterparts over the years. This didn't happen near as often with any other class from what I remember. The greatsword in particular is such a strong and well designed weapon in combination with stances and specific secondary weapons that you can easily throw it on any of the elites and do fine.That and the fact that old issues such as the need to run said stances, specific traits and even entire trait lines persist to this day due to weapons skills which provide you with little to no boons in comparison to other classes and lackluster elite spec utilities which pretty much force you to go back to core utilities outside of a few good ones, not sure I even need to mention Healing Signet and all of that.

In short, you are often stuck on the same old weapons, same old utilities and same old traits. Your role doesn't really change either. We have certainly yet to see an elite that completely transforms the class or opens it up to different roles. All we have had so far are elites which are pretty much the core warrior with a special feature. Special features and new weapons which are being nerfed into oblivion until the entire line is no longer worth taking and you go back to the trusty greatsword/stances core combo.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Henry.5713 said:There have been many periods of warrior core builds outperforming their respective elite spec counterparts over the years. This didn't happen near as often with any other class from what I remember. The greatsword in particular is such a strong and well designed weapon in combination with stances and specific secondary weapons that you can easily throw it on any of the elites and do fine.That and the fact that old issues such as the need to run said stances, specific traits and even entire trait lines persist to this day due to weapons skills which provide you with little to no boons in comparison to other classes and lackluster elite spec utilities which pretty much force you to go back to core utilities outside of a few good ones, not sure I even need to mention Healing Signet and all of that.

In short, you are often stuck on the same old weapons, same old utilities and same old traits. Your role doesn't really change either. We have certainly yet to see an elite that completely transforms the class or opens it up to different roles. All we have had so far are elites which are pretty much the core warrior with a special feature. Special features and new weapons which are being nerfed into oblivion until the entire line is no longer worth taking and you go back to the trusty greatsword/stances core combo.

And yet when the give us something substantial that allows warrior to excel in some dimension talks of nerfs immediately happen.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Don't worry, it's not unnatural to not have fun with what had been for the longest time; Rampage, the class.

The skill that has essentially been Warrior's identity over the past few PvP seasons(Even though it isn't even exclusive to Warrior) is being nerfed pretty hard, and it's not like there's any sort of buff to Warrior/Spellbreaker's base kit, or the other elite skills to make it feel more fun or interesting to play. Basically, if you were bored from relying on this one skill before, nothing about the class has changed. It's just that one skill has been made worse.

Warrior is headed back to the dark days where it was just before PoF came out. Playing it is going to be a matter of personal conviction, and if you aren't all that attached to the class; this is a perfect time to not be playing Warrior. In PvP at least, Idunno about the other two modes.

[RedShark.9548]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:Don't worry, it's not unnatural to not have fun with what had been for the longest time; Rampage, the class.

The skill that has essentially been Warrior's identity over the past few PvP seasons(Even though it isn't even exclusive to Warrior) is being nerfed pretty hard, and it's not like there's any sort of buff to Warrior/Spellbreaker's base kit, or the other elite skills to make it feel more fun or interesting to play. Basically, if you were bored from relying on this one skill before, nothing about the class has changed. It's just that one skill has been made worse.

Warrior is headed back to the dark days where it was just before PoF came out. Playing it is going to be a matter of personal conviction, and if you aren't all that attached to the class; this is a perfect time to not be playing Warrior. In PvP at least, Idunno about the other two modes.

Unique bannerbuffs and empowered allies will keep it in pve.

WoD will keep them in wvw.

Nobody plays rampage in those modes rly, except maybe for wvw roaming, but its not even nerfed in wvw or pve.

[Zander.9836]

I may be in the minority but I enjoy playing warrior. I have an asura and human warrior; both with 100% map completion. I'm considering making a third. Perhaps a charr or norn. I'll get map completion on them too. I run fractals and dungeons. The profession is wanted in group pve content. It has respectable dps and can easily break defiance bars. It's fun for me at least. And I play core warrior.

[Jagdtiger.2517]

There is actually a Core Warrior player in the top 10 in NA. He's a cool guy. A bit troll sometimes. Very skilled player.

[sneakytails.5629]

@Henry.5713 said:There have been many periods of warrior core builds outperforming their respective elite spec counterparts over the years. This didn't happen near as often with any other class from what I remember. The greatsword in particular is such a strong and well designed weapon in combination with stances and specific secondary weapons that you can easily throw it on any of the elites and do fine.That and the fact that old issues such as the need to run said stances, specific traits and even entire trait lines persist to this day due to weapons skills which provide you with little to no boons in comparison to other classes and lackluster elite spec utilities which pretty much force you to go back to core utilities outside of a few good ones, not sure I even need to mention Healing Signet and all of that.

In short, you are often stuck on the same old weapons, same old utilities and same old traits. Your role doesn't really change either. We have certainly yet to see an elite that completely transforms the class or opens it up to different roles. All we have had so far are elites which are pretty much the core warrior with a special feature. Special features and new weapons which are being nerfed into oblivion until the entire line is no longer worth taking and you go back to the trusty greatsword/stances core combo.

This.

[Regh.8649]

@Henry.5713 said:There have been many periods of warrior core builds outperforming their respective elite spec counterparts over the years. This didn't happen near as often with any other class from what I remember. The greatsword in particular is such a strong and well designed weapon in combination with stances and specific secondary weapons that you can easily throw it on any of the elites and do fine.That and the fact that old issues such as the need to run said stances, specific traits and even entire trait lines persist to this day due to weapons skills which provide you with little to no boons in comparison to other classes and lackluster elite spec utilities which pretty much force you to go back to core utilities outside of a few good ones, not sure I even need to mention Healing Signet and all of that.

In short, you are often stuck on the same old weapons, same old utilities and same old traits. Your role doesn't really change either. We have certainly yet to see an elite that completely transforms the class or opens it up to different roles. All we have had so far are elites which are pretty much the core warrior with a special feature. Special features and new weapons which are being nerfed into oblivion until the entire line is no longer worth taking and you go back to the trusty greatsword/stances core combo.

In Hot I was Berserker, In PoF was really amazed with spellbreaker, until THAT little something was no more and here I am, with my trusty core warrior.Thank you for finding the right words to describe it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Regh.8649 said:

@Henry.5713 said:There have been many periods of warrior core builds outperforming their respective elite spec counterparts over the years. This didn't happen near as often with any other class from what I remember. The greatsword in particular is such a strong and well designed weapon in combination with stances and specific secondary weapons that you can easily throw it on any of the elites and do fine.That and the fact that old issues such as the need to run said stances, specific traits and even entire trait lines persist to this day due to weapons skills which provide you with little to no boons in comparison to other classes and lackluster elite spec utilities which pretty much force you to go back to core utilities outside of a few good ones, not sure I even need to mention Healing Signet and all of that.

In short, you are often stuck on the same old weapons, same old utilities and same old traits. Your role doesn't really change either. We have certainly yet to see an elite that completely transforms the class or opens it up to different roles. All we have had so far are elites which are pretty much the core warrior with a special feature. Special features and new weapons which are being nerfed into oblivion until the entire line is no longer worth taking and you go back to the trusty greatsword/stances core combo.

In Hot I was Berserker, In PoF was really amazed with spellbreaker, until THAT little something was no more and here I am, with my trusty core warrior.Thank you for finding the right words to describe it.

Because everytime warrior gets something nice it almost immediately gets nerfed. Newest casualty being Warrior's Cunning.

[rdigeri.7935]

@Jagdtiger.2517 said:There is actually a Core Warrior player in the top 10 in NA. He's a cool guy. A bit troll sometimes. Very skilled player.

Who are they?

[Lighter.5631]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Jagdtiger.2517 said:There is actually a Core Warrior player in the top 10 in NA. He's a cool guy. A bit troll sometimes. Very skilled player.

Who are they?

no one, because the only way to climb and keep your position is play fb, rev, mes, holo and thief

[rdigeri.7935]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Jagdtiger.2517 said:There is actually a Core Warrior player in the top 10 in NA. He's a cool guy. A bit troll sometimes. Very skilled player.

Who are they?

no one, because the only way to climb and keep your position is play fb, rev, mes, holo and thief

Thank you for that valuable comment

[Lighter.5631]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Jagdtiger.2517 said:There is actually a Core Warrior player in the top 10 in NA. He's a cool guy. A bit troll sometimes. Very skilled player.

Who are they?

no one, because the only way to climb and keep your position is play fb, rev, mes, holo and thief

Thank you for that valuable comment

your welcome mate

[otto.5684]

@Henry.5713 said:There have been many periods of warrior core builds outperforming their respective elite spec counterparts over the years. This didn't happen near as often with any other class from what I remember. The greatsword in particular is such a strong and well designed weapon in combination with stances and specific secondary weapons that you can easily throw it on any of the elites and do fine.That and the fact that old issues such as the need to run said stances, specific traits and even entire trait lines persist to this day due to weapons skills which provide you with little to no boons in comparison to other classes and lackluster elite spec utilities which pretty much force you to go back to core utilities outside of a few good ones, not sure I even need to mention Healing Signet and all of that.

In short, you are often stuck on the same old weapons, same old utilities and same old traits. Your role doesn't really change either. We have certainly yet to see an elite that completely transforms the class or opens it up to different roles. All we have had so far are elites which are pretty much the core warrior with a special feature. Special features and new weapons which are being nerfed into oblivion until the entire line is no longer worth taking and you go back to the trusty greatsword/stances core combo.

Bit late to the party. This has been my consistent issue with warrior. In PvE only axe/axe and PvP is locked to GS. I was very disappointing with SB that daggers do not deal any competitive damage in PvE. And for me, I hate warrior GS, so PvP has always been out of the picture.

Personally, I think warrior line balance is probably the best class. Weapons, probably the worst. However, weapons (in PvE at least) control how much build diversity you can have. As result warrior has none.