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First time post here of complaint warrior buff is bad idea edit: Nerf rifle warrior


Axl.8924

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hello fellow players i am here to ask and complain about the recent warrior buffs, and concerned that these buffs to warriors after the nerfs of a certain class barrier is a bad tacked on move that will lead warriors to one shotting players with barriers that don't even last long enough.

Doing something like 50% more dmg against barrier is crazy when combined with other bonuses where not only will you out damage barrier but possibly 1 shot, and warriors in my opinion are already pretty op

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The thing is that tactics is literally a 100% sustain line if we are talking meta. And if you play spell breaker that damage buff is the only way you will do damage. I totally agree that having a class that can hit for 50k is absurd but as far as meta goes we will possibly barely see it because for 1 rifle war just is a 1 trick pony that unlike other 1 shot builds eg. weaver, mirage and thief it has little mobility and little invulns the only one being a physical dmg immunity that doesn’t counter condi. So after knowing that it is barely a thing is that damage buff really that op? I’m actually on the edge I’m not sure if it should be removed because I don’t see any problem with core war in ats or ranked yet....

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@Axl.8924 said:Thing is this gives a line to harass eles with certain builds and 1 shot scourges and of course scrappers. It seems a bit too punishing.

But scourge is already dying and the things necro condi really harasses any war build. Ele is 1 thing but it’s a side boxer with invulns so it is inconvenient to go after as far as scrappers they have a lot of projectile hate and are also side noders with a lot of utility. I just don’t see these changes largely affecting the meta. Rifle war was already good against bunkers but is so inconvenient to run that we don’t see it meta ever so is adding a bit of dmg to a support line gonna delete the meta? Again I’m not 100% sure otherwise I’d see it played in plat lvl, which as someone who plays plat3-legend I can tell you I haven’t seen it once...

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Thing is this gives a line to harass eles with certain builds and 1 shot scourges and of course scrappers. It seems a bit too punishing.

But scourge is already dying and the things necro condi really harasses any war build. Ele is 1 thing but it’s a side boxer with invulns so it is inconvenient to go after as far as scrappers they have a lot of projectile hate and are also side noders with a lot of utility. I just don’t see these changes largely affecting the meta. Rifle war was already good against bunkers but is so inconvenient to run that we don’t see it meta ever so is adding a bit of dmg to a support line gonna delete the meta? Again I’m not 100% sure otherwise I’d see it played in plat lvl, which as someone who plays plat3-legend I can tell you I haven’t seen it once...

I wonder if it works against reaper/core necro shrouds, if it does it might be more reliable then I orginally believed, I can see some supportish core warrior run tactics in teamfight, have no damage against most but simply focus down barrier specs ( necro,scrapper,holo,ele ) could be good, could be bad, 100% feelsbad on the person getting arcingsliced :D

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Thing is this gives a line to harass eles with certain builds and 1 shot scourges and of course scrappers. It seems a bit too punishing.

But scourge is already dying and the things necro condi really harasses any war build. Ele is 1 thing but it’s a side boxer with invulns so it is inconvenient to go after as far as scrappers they have a lot of projectile hate and are also side noders with a lot of utility. I just don’t see these changes largely affecting the meta. Rifle war was already good against bunkers but is so inconvenient to run that we don’t see it meta ever so is adding a bit of dmg to a support line gonna delete the meta? Again I’m not 100% sure otherwise I’d see it played in plat lvl, which as someone who plays plat3-legend I can tell you I haven’t seen it once...

I wonder if it works against reaper/core necro shrouds, if it does it might be more reliable then I orginally believed, I can see some supportish core warrior run tactics in teamfight, have no damage against most but simply focus down barrier specs ( necro,scrapper,holo,ele ) could be good, could be bad, 100% feelsbad on the person getting arcingsliced :D

It doesn’t lol and reaper core is what ppl will play

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@Axl.8924 said:Also scourge got hit with a pretty big nerf with the way they land aoe sure it does more dmg but its going to be a lot easier to gank them now and a lot harder to hit people, plus combined with warr buffs its gonna be overkill.

U can put in w.e perspective u want but necro has and always will counter war in this meta. If I don’t land your burst which you won’t because of shroud and firebrand the warrior will just be food. Ded in 1 second and forgottenRifle war still doesn’t seem op yet this is starting to make me laugh

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:The thing is that tactics is literally a 100% sustain line if we are talking meta.

lol op complains about 50% damage bonus in tactics vs barrieryou say thissomeone is wrong methinks

What he means is that core builds that use Tactics are 100% using the sustain traits and ignoring the damage ones.He's referring to meta though, which is incorrect, seeing as core warrior isn't meta.

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Hmm at least its visible dmg i mean i heard someone say that at least warriors dmg is visible compared to stealth deadeye kills , and they are right and that seems to be some form of rifle which should be able to be blocked, so i am going to take back my comments on dmg as long as its with rifle if only because of magnetic aura from eles.

Thinking of it more though the dmg does seem kinda nuts from rifle, even if its visible that almost 40k strike from a 1 shot is kinda stupid being able to almost 1 shot anyone.

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@"Axl.8924" said:Hmm at least its visible dmg i mean i heard someone say that at least warriors dmg is visible compared to stealth deadeye kills , and they are right and that seems to be some form of rifle which should be able to be blocked, so i am going to take back my comments on dmg as long as its with rifle if only because of magnetic aura from eles.

Thinking of it more though the dmg does seem kinda nuts from rifle, even if its visible that almost 40k strike from a 1 shot is kinda stupid being able to almost 1 shot anyone.

Hello friend. I did some testing for you with a nice warrior rifle build. I used the SUPER over powered trait you are talking about.

This is my results...

clips.twitch.tv/DelightfulPeacefulTitanAMPEnergy

I see NOTHING WRONG... :)

xoxo

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@Ajaxx.3157 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:Hmm at least its visible dmg i mean i heard someone say that at least warriors dmg is visible compared to stealth deadeye kills , and they are right and that seems to be some form of rifle which should be able to be blocked, so i am going to take back my comments on dmg as long as its with rifle if only because of magnetic aura from eles.

Thinking of it more though the dmg does seem kinda nuts from rifle, even if its visible that almost 40k strike from a 1 shot is kinda stupid being able to almost 1 shot anyone.

Hello friend. I did some testing for you with a nice warrior rifle build. I used the SUPER over powered trait you are talking about.

This is my results...

I see NOTHING WRONG... :)

xoxo

Lmao.

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ANet's moto is that fixing the issues is bad, adding more problems to hid the issues is good.Too many boons? Let flood the game with boon corruption.Too many dodge? Let's flood the game with weakness.Too many incoming damage? Let's flood the game with invulnerability/evade.Projectiles lose to projectile counter tools? No problem, let's make projectile counter tools block and flood the game with unblockable.... etc.

You see, barrier is an issue? Let's increase damage dealt by players onto players that have barrier...

At this point it doesn't even look like they are trying to understand why some things are an issue, they just throw a counter to those things.

Why is barrier an issue? It stack. Because it stack, the optimal way to use it is to increase the number of source of barrier. Which lead to the overwhelming number of scourges in WvW zergs. Which cemente WvW zerg gameplay into a gameplay that fit the scourge's own gameplay, making professions that can't adapt to this gameplay unwelcome.

So what's ANet answer? Let's adapt warrior to an environment full of barrier. Yeah, I know it's an hilarious answer but there is some kind of logic there.

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@Ajaxx.3157 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:Hmm at least its visible dmg i mean i heard someone say that at least warriors dmg is visible compared to stealth deadeye kills , and they are right and that seems to be some form of rifle which should be able to be blocked, so i am going to take back my comments on dmg as long as its with rifle if only because of magnetic aura from eles.

Thinking of it more though the dmg does seem kinda nuts from rifle, even if its visible that almost 40k strike from a 1 shot is kinda stupid being able to almost 1 shot anyone.

Hello friend. I did some testing for you with a nice warrior rifle build. I used the SUPER over powered trait you are talking about.

This is my results...

I see NOTHING WRONG... :)

xoxo

UH that dmg is pretty insane 30k crits? over 40k dmg to a enemy with barrier? yeah thats way too strong in my opinion.

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Losing out on Spellbreaker, Discipline, or Strength for a gimmick that punishes maybe a grand total of 4 specializations in the game can't be considered OP imo.

Unless you're taking tactics for the sustain like @Dantheman.3589 said, it's kind of like playing with a handicap.

Even as a Warrior main I can say pretty confidently that the entirety of the last balance update could be rolled back and I don't think any of us would be too bothered.

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I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

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@Axl.8924 said:I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

For sure. As a a warrior main I would have been so much happier with defense getting a rework rather than tactics. All the toughness and extra sustain is pretty bad because protection will always beat toughness in terms of sustain because of the straight up -33% damage multiplier and core warrior gets none. Defy pain is a total joke too. 90s CD on a no-skill passive for 2s of immunity to power damage.

That whole middle tree in the defense line needs to be redesigned if defense is ever going to make a comeback, and core warrior needs some way to apply protection. Even if they only get a tiny amount like with Guard counter. It makes all the difference when pretty much every other class is running around with the boon applied near-constantly.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

For sure. As a a warrior main I would have been so much happier with defense getting a rework rather than tactics. All the toughness and extra sustain is pretty bad because protection will always beat toughness in terms of sustain because of the straight up -33% damage multiplier and core warrior gets none. Defy pain is a total joke too. 90s CD on a no-skill passive for 2s of immunity to power damage.

That whole middle tree in the defense line needs to be redesigned if defense is ever going to make a comeback, and core warrior needs some way to apply protection. Even if they only get a tiny amount like with Guard counter. It makes all the difference when pretty much every other class is running around with the boon applied near-constantly.

keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

For sure. As a a warrior main I would have been so much happier with defense getting a rework rather than tactics. All the toughness and extra sustain is pretty bad because protection will always beat toughness in terms of sustain because of the straight up -33% damage multiplier and core warrior gets none. Defy pain is a total joke too. 90s CD on a no-skill passive for 2s of immunity to power damage.

That whole middle tree in the defense line needs to be redesigned if defense is ever going to make a comeback, and core warrior needs some way to apply protection. Even if they only get a tiny amount like with Guard counter. It makes all the difference when pretty much every other class is running around with the boon applied near-constantly.

keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

toughness could work in pve but in pvp it wont help prevent being one shotted

We are talking about new classes with invuln spam and such and personally in my opinion core classes should help beef up the elites and elites themselves shouldn't be so overcompensating for the lack luster core stuff.

I hear guardian is viable as core and necromancer is a good example of something that core while getting slightly better still has some stuff to improve upon.

Warrior should be no different in that core should help boost up the other elites up.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

I feel you. I'm not asking for perma-protection like most the other classes get, but anything; even the very least for core warrior. Even if it's similar to guard counter for Spellbreaker being low up-time and proc-dependent; I wouldn't mind, i'd actually encourage more investment-heavy ways of applying protection like that. After all, protection is a huge boon, probably one of if not the strongest. Toughness and armor are pretty meh being additive, but protection is just a straight up -33% power damage reduction multiplier. I don't think it increases healing though? Idunno, could be wrong there, or maybe that's referring to a trait or rune or something.

I think Defense is the best-suited line here because it's the most fitting, and you lose a considerable bit of dps to take this as Spellbreaker. Like I say the middle line is totally garbage and bland and really needs an update which could include protection. Rousing Resilience is also another proc-dependent trait that could easily give protection instead of the toughness which would make the skill better, give the skill more counterplay, and make defense more viable all at once.

Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

I can try to imagine this for a Warrior, but it's easier to just picture Scrapper getting the same skill with fairly high protection uptime, on a shorter CD, and with a longer duration with Elixir X + HGH since that's reality. It basically makes them near-immune to power damage for 15s(10s for warriors.) That's kind of prepping for the extreme though either way, as the skill has a pretty lengthy CD and the huge initial damage reduction multiplier makes rampagers pretty immune to power damage to begin with.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

For sure. As a a warrior main I would have been so much happier with defense getting a rework rather than tactics. All the toughness and extra sustain is pretty bad because protection will always beat toughness in terms of sustain because of the straight up -33% damage multiplier and core warrior gets none. Defy pain is a total joke too. 90s CD on a no-skill passive for 2s of immunity to power damage.

That whole middle tree in the defense line needs to be redesigned if defense is ever going to make a comeback, and core warrior needs some way to apply protection. Even if they only get a tiny amount like with Guard counter. It makes all the difference when pretty much every other class is running around with the boon applied near-constantly.

keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

toughness could work in pve but in pvp it wont help prevent being one shotted

We are talking about new classes with invuln spam and such and personally in my opinion core classes should help beef up the elites and elites themselves shouldn't be so overcompensating for the lack luster core stuff.

I hear guardian is viable as core and necromancer is a good example of something that core while getting slightly better still has some stuff to improve upon.

Warrior should be no different in that core should help boost up the other elites up.

sorry but warrior doesnt get 1shoted, and toughtness DOES help with 1shot/bursts.core war is overperforming almost as much if not as much as spb.all im saying is that protection on warrior, would be worth more then protection on most if not all other classes, due to having perma 25might, thus not needing many dmg traits to do massive ammounts of damage, having HEAVY sustain.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

I feel you. I'm not asking for perma-protection like most the other classes get, but anything; even the very least for core warrior. Even if it's similar to guard counter for Spellbreaker being low up-time and proc-dependent; I wouldn't mind, i'd actually encourage more investment-heavy ways of applying protection like that. After all, protection is a huge boon, probably one of if not the strongest. Toughness and armor are pretty meh being additive, but protection is just a straight up -33% power damage reduction multiplier. I don't think it increases healing though? Idunno, could be wrong there, or maybe that's referring to a trait or rune or something.

I think Defense is the best-suited line here because it's the most fitting, and you lose a considerable bit of dps to take this as Spellbreaker. Like I say the middle line is totally garbage and bland and really needs an update which could include protection. Rousing Resilience is also another proc-dependent trait that could easily give protection instead of the toughness which would make the skill better, give the skill more counterplay, and make defense more viable all at once.

Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

I can try to imagine this for a Warrior, but it's easier to just picture Scrapper getting the same skill with fairly high protection uptime, on a shorter CD, and with a longer duration with Elixir X + HGH since that's reality. It basically makes them near-immune to power damage for 15s(10s for warriors.) That's kind of prepping for the extreme though either way, as the skill has a pretty lengthy CD and the huge initial damage reduction multiplier makes rampagers pretty immune to power damage to begin with.

yea I wouldnt be opposed per say, its just dangerous to do so . Expecially since core warrior is strong as it is.what I ment about prot into healing is that, healing is worth MORE if you take LESS damage.immagine take full damage. 100 every time, then healing for 50. it means you lost 50.then immagine ahving prot, instead you take 67 dmg, still heal for 50. meaning you lose 17 hp. making healing more effective compared to the HP you have.

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