When Alliances hit, what will be the incentive?

[Knighthonor.4061]

I was thinking about something regarding the future Alliance system. Seem like a great idea, but there can always be a hole of two in a great idea. Dont see a problem with pointing these out before release of an Idea for hope that solutions could be made to something that may have been overlooked.

From the limited information we have on Alliances, it seem that we will no longer have dedicated factions any more. The teams will be shuffled every week or so, or whatever rotation time they decide on.

So there is a chance you will be playing with a different set of people every rotation.

This to me will eliminate any last bit of Faction Pride in the game mode.

Currently, WvW as is, doesnt really have an incentive to win, since like the game show "Who Line Is It Anyway", there are no winners or losers in WvW. The Only real incentive we have is the rep of our Servers.Thats kind of it.

Now Servers go away, now what? What would be the incentive in WvW going forward?

[knite.1542]

My guess is a 3 AP achievement that takes 100 hours to complete, maybe a cheesy title, and a sense of accomplishment.

[XenesisII.1540]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:I was thinking about something regarding the future Alliance system. Seem like a great idea, but there can always be a hole of two in a great idea. Dont see a problem with pointing these out before release of an Idea for hope that solutions could be made to something that may have been overlooked.

From the limited information we have on Alliances, it seem that we will no longer have dedicated factions any more. The teams will be shuffled every week or so, or whatever rotation time they decide on.

So there is a chance you will be playing with a different set of people every rotation.

This to me will eliminate any last bit of Faction Pride in the game mode.

Currently, WvW as is, doesnt really have an incentive to win, since like the game show "Who Line Is It Anyway", there are no winners or losers in WvW. The Only real incentive we have is the rep of our Servers.Thats kind of it.

Now Servers go away, now what? What would be the incentive in WvW going forward?

You probably need to go reread the alliance thread...

They plan to reshuffle worlds(servers) every 2 months like relinks.Alliances only count at the time of reshuffle and placing you in the same world as your allies, after that you're with the same people on that world for 2 months, you can rep whatever guilds as usual.Matchups are still weekly as now.Alliances will have at least 500 players for a cap because guilds can go up to 500. Most of the alliances that have moved around in the past two years haven't even had that many players, probably even room for current servers to have most of their current population stay in one huge alliance.Once the population issue has been settled I'm sure they will think about tournaments, and even a "seasons" which they have already used to describe the 2 month period.

[Gop.8713]

My highest, best hope for alliances is that it helps anet create matchups with more balanced coverage, or at least population. If they can actually do that -- and I understand that it would be very difficult and run contrary to the preference of the majority of the player base -- then the game mode would actually be more fun to play, and at that point I wouldn't really care if there was anything specific to fight for . . .

[Dawdler.8521]

"Server pride" or "faction pride" is just pride for belonging to a group. The size of that group is fairly irrelevant. All the alliances does in that area is move what you "belong" to from a 2500+ man server with many, many people you cant possibly know and feel a connection for, to a smaller 500ish section where you choose to belong, very much like how a guild works. It literally still is "faction pride", except now you can customize it and make it your own, with more freedom to join another "faction" when you lost faith in your current - or create a new faction. Solo->Party->Squad->Guild->Server or Solo->Party->Squad->Guild->Alliance. Take your pick. Faction, server, alliance, just names.

As I have said many times before, I am hoping that Anet double down on showing what alliances we belong to. When we cap a keep, it should be ours. As in, the alliance. And every other alliance should know it. The "world" you belong to during that 2 months season is less important.

[Sovereign.1093]

there is no incentive if there is no ranking like wvw community website or tournaments season

[borgs.6103]

Honestly, I would just be happy to have people to fight with one side not hilariously outnumbering the others.

[Swagger.1459]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:I was thinking about something regarding the future Alliance system. Seem like a great idea, but there can always be a hole of two in a great idea. Dont see a problem with pointing these out before release of an Idea for hope that solutions could be made to something that may have been overlooked.

From the limited information we have on Alliances, it seem that we will no longer have dedicated factions any more. The teams will be shuffled every week or so, or whatever rotation time they decide on.

So there is a chance you will be playing with a different set of people every rotation.

This to me will eliminate any last bit of Faction Pride in the game mode.

Currently, WvW as is, doesnt really have an incentive to win, since like the game show "Who Line Is It Anyway", there are no winners or losers in WvW. The Only real incentive we have is the rep of our Servers.Thats kind of it.

Now Servers go away, now what? What would be the incentive in WvW going forward?

Server “pride” is replaced with guild alliance “pride”, for those that still care about “pride”. If anyone is the type of person who is hung up on (insert server name some devs made up), then you’ll probably be sad, but there are others who don’t care and will be happy to play with the people they want in their guild alliance.

Incentives are... being able to play with your guild and group of alliance friends because you are all on the same side. More population balance is a big goal of alliances, so that’s incentive to play. I’m sure new game rewards will also be an incentive.

[SlateSloan.3654]

i dont think there are enough people left for an 500ppl 24/7 battle... anet should have developed an proper gvg system, for the sake of „guild wars“ and the sake of giving fast competition possibility to the players. theres a reason why young people rather not join mmos but fast action shooters like pubg or fortnite. they want action and direct results, not wait a week to see who won. that old wvw system is out of trend and not worth the time effort.

[kash.9213]

Not sure if this is what the op means but many of us, at least on my current server, are either solo or not in a guild that runs squads in wvw, who just kind of float around working together here and there instinctively tag or not. You get to know people that way after a long time maybe better than you know most of the guild you're in but like at work, you don't think about it until you're suddenly working with different people. It's easy to say just form a guild together but that idea does get complicated all the sudden when you really think about it. Many of those people might not be floating around together after. Hopefully like minds from our servers will slowly assemble again.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@kash.9213 said:Not sure if this is what the op means but many of us, at least on my current server, are either solo or not in a guild that runs squads in wvw, who just kind of float around working together here and there instinctively tag or not. You get to know people that way after a long time maybe better than you know most of the guild you're in but like at work, you don't think about it until you're suddenly working with different people. It's easy to say just form a guild together but that idea does get complicated all the sudden when you really think about it. Many of those people might not be floating around together after. Hopefully like minds from our servers will slowly assemble again.

The OP doesn’t play WvW. He doesn’t understand the mode.

I am more like you Kash, though I do have a guild I run primarily Havoc on. I’ll be using them as a WvW guild so that even if we don’t join an actual alliance, we will continue to play together.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@SlateSloan.3654 said:i dont think there are enough people left for an 500ppl 24/7 battle... anet should have developed an proper gvg system, for the sake of „guild wars“ and the sake of giving fast competition possibility to the players. theres a reason why young people rather not join mmos but fast action shooters like pubg or fortnite. they want action and direct results, not wait a week to see who won. that old wvw system is out of trend and not worth the time effort.

And yet, there are 4-5 new games coming out that are focused on just that.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

Not sure exactly what incentives there can be anymore other than playing with friends. I used to head into wvw back in the beginning to scout, upgrade structures etc. None of that matters much anymore. WvW is mainly now a fight fest. Score really doesn’t matter for anything since the 1up/down thing came in. Every relink there is a load of bandwagoning so the populations that were just apparently balanced become imbalanced almost right away.

Alliances will apparently help to stop this massive migration every two months but the “community” damage has already been successfully implemented. We are left with people playing with people they like, aka my own guildies for the most part. We will never again see a need to go in and defend and build your defences up like the old days.

Once our main raid is done sometimes a few of us run havoc for fun but mostly it’s time to log out. Alliances won’t change that imo.

[MELORD.5013]

what if Alliances crush all servers

[Sovereign.1093]

wvw needs doing.

without seasons, it is dying more faster.

[Iozeph.5617]

By the time Alliances hit -assuming they actually ever do- I'll be counting it a bonus just to be able to wake up every day and still be able to eat solid food.

[Towelie.3719]

I think at this point it's a "if" rather than a "when"

[Sovereign.1093]

there is no reason to win. there has to be one

[Towelie.3719]

before megaservers there was at least a minor incentive for people on the same server to go to WvW as they got things like xp bonuses, crafting bonuses etc. They should revisit that model to try to pull people from open world PvE and whatnot into WvW. They were super minor but they at least gave someone in PvE some reason to ever participate in WvW

Artisan: 2-3% increased chance of crafting critical success.Defender: 1-2% increased defense against monsters.Energetic: 1-2% endurance regeneration bonus.Gatherer: 2-3% chance of additional gathering node usesMedic: 1-2% increased healing effectivenessRobust: 1-2% increased maximum healthScavenger: 1-2% bonus coin per kill.Wisdom: 1-2% bonus experience per kill.

[XenesisII.1540]

They weren't minor, they went up to 10-20% over the course of the week, and yet when it was taken away pve'ers said nothing. They did not care, and they didn't need to because they got the bonus regardless of participating or not in wvw, as the bonus came from their server performance, which all servers got to max bonus by thursday anyways. I remember waiting till end of the week to do crafting stuff, especially when I was leveling alts back in the day.

The bonuses were also hidden to the wvw menu which a pve'er wouldn't bother to look at unless they did wvw, I once suggested putting the bonuses up on a boon icon so pve'er could see it even in pve like they do for whenever any of the events with bonuses are up, but of course that was buried and never looked at.

Edit: geez I suggested it back in 2016 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Quality-of-Life-Suggestions

[anduriell.6280]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:I was thinking about something regarding the future Alliance system. Seem like a great idea, but there can always be a hole of two in a great idea. Dont see a problem with pointing these out before release of an Idea for hope that solutions could be made to something that may have been overlooked.

From the limited information we have on Alliances, it seem that we will no longer have dedicated factions any more. The teams will be shuffled every week or so, or whatever rotation time they decide on.

So there is a chance you will be playing with a different set of people every rotation.

This to me will eliminate any last bit of Faction Pride in the game mode.

Currently, WvW as is, doesnt really have an incentive to win, since like the game show "Who Line Is It Anyway", there are no winners or losers in WvW. The Only real incentive we have is the rep of our Servers.Thats kind of it.

Now Servers go away, now what? What would be the incentive in WvW going forward?

Alliances means that: Guild alliances.Your guild can ally with other guilds to make sure you get to play with the ppl you want.Those alliances will be the actual "server pride" which doesnt exists anymore from the links bandwagon.

I agree we need those PvE bonuses back in the game and more benefits based in the winning position. I began with wvw just because i was wondering what those bonus were coming from.

[Acheron.4731]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:I was thinking about something regarding the future Alliance system. Seem like a great idea, but there can always be a hole of two in a great idea. Dont see a problem with pointing these out before release of an Idea for hope that solutions could be made to something that may have been overlooked.

From the limited information we have on Alliances, it seem that we will no longer have dedicated factions any more. The teams will be shuffled every week or so, or whatever rotation time they decide on.

So there is a chance you will be playing with a different set of people every rotation.

This to me will eliminate any last bit of Faction Pride in the game mode.

Currently, WvW as is, doesnt really have an incentive to win, since like the game show "Who Line Is It Anyway", there are no winners or losers in WvW. The Only real incentive we have is the rep of our Servers.Thats kind of it.

Now Servers go away, now what? What would be the incentive in WvW going forward?

Alliances means that: Guild alliances.Your guild can ally with other guilds to make sure you get to play with the ppl you want.Those alliances will be the actual "server pride" which doesnt exists anymore from the links bandwagon.

I agree we need those PvE bonuses back in the game and more benefits based in the winning position. I began with wvw just because i was wondering what those bonus were coming from.

How are people not forming their own alliances with the system that is already in place?I am pretty sure they are.So, what really is the incentive and what will this definitively fix at this point. It is a little too late to do much good.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Acheron.4731 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:I was thinking about something regarding the future Alliance system. Seem like a great idea, but there can always be a hole of two in a great idea. Dont see a problem with pointing these out before release of an Idea for hope that solutions could be made to something that may have been overlooked.

From the limited information we have on Alliances, it seem that we will no longer have dedicated factions any more. The teams will be shuffled every week or so, or whatever rotation time they decide on.

So there is a chance you will be playing with a different set of people every rotation.

This to me will eliminate any last bit of Faction Pride in the game mode.

Currently, WvW as is, doesnt really have an incentive to win, since like the game show "Who Line Is It Anyway", there are no winners or losers in WvW. The Only real incentive we have is the rep of our Servers.Thats kind of it.

Now Servers go away, now what? What would be the incentive in WvW going forward?

Alliances means that: Guild alliances.Your guild can ally with other guilds to make sure you get to play with the ppl you want.Those alliances will be the actual "server pride" which doesnt exists anymore from the links bandwagon.

I agree we need those PvE bonuses back in the game and more benefits based in the winning position. I began with wvw just because i was wondering what those bonus were coming from.

How are people not forming their own alliances with the system that is already in place?I am pretty sure they are.

They have been, and despite some of them being mostly defunct. But it won’t take long for them to reform if they choose.

So, what really is the incentive and what will this definitively fix at this point. It is a little too late to do much good.

Well, it would form a frame. And it would be up to the players to fill it.

Theoretically, it would allow for better matched fights. It could grow into multiple new ‘worlds’ or flex down into less.

So, we figure there are only two tiers worth of players, this would allow Anet to do that.

If it grows because the matchups are fun again, then the tiers could expand.

Will it fix it? No idea.

But, it could be the frame for a fix.

[Thornwolf.9721]

At this point I doubt it will ever happen, They will leave us and PvP to rot. They don't much care for us~

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Acheron.4731" said:So, what really is the incentive and what will this definitively fix at this point. It is a little too late to do much good.People always keep misinpreteting - and misrepresenting - the idea of the alliances. Fix what? "Pride"? All the alliance system is intended to fix is this:

Current server matchup system16+13+11=40No matter how you twist and turn, you cant flip those numbers in any way that doesnt give one side a major advantage, while the low pop server will always be low pop.

Alliance matchup system(4+4+5)+(6+4+3)+(8+2+4)=40Notice how many ways you can flip these numbers around. You can never achieve perfect balance... but you can try.

And thats it.