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Reducing the number of illusions from 3 to 2 might just fix mesmer...


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Higher skillcap, reducing the possibility of overstacking clones (because let's be honnest, the real limit is actually 6 with that several seconds delay). I don't know, I just feel like a player should use their skill to win something, instead of just overloading the ennemy's screen with useless information and blending in with the soup.

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OK but first I think reducing the number of attunements from 4 to 2 might just fix Elementalists.

Higher skillcap, reducing the possibility of overstacking weaponskills (because let's be honnest, its really just having double the amount of weapon skills as everybody else). I don't know, I just feel like a player should use their skill to win something, instead of just overloading the ennemy's screen with useless information and blending in with the soup.

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this would lower the skill cap, considering you should then shatter before ANY new clone production - not that calculating clone production is hard thoughbtw there is no limit on stacking clones (9 is not uncommon, chrono before nerf had 10+)

higher your own skillcap by learning to find the real player

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@ROMANG.1903 said:Higher skillcap, reducing the possibility of overstacking clones (because let's be honnest, the real limit is actually 6 with that several seconds delay). I don't know, I just feel like a player should use their skill to win something, instead of just overloading the ennemy's screen with useless information and blending in with the soup.

Given that people have been consistently begging for Chrono to go from 3 to 2 while regaining IP, there are probably limitations. I don't see why core/mirage would need it, they don't have CS or alacrity.

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Then the damage of the third clone is redistributed across a 2 clone plus illusionary persona setup (for Mesmer and Mirage, blimey is Chrono awful right now) and thus it's easier for the Mesmer/Mirage/Chrono to land damage as there's one less clone to have to generate/worry about being popped by stray AoE. This would...increase the skill cap...somehow...I dunno...carrots!

Perhaps remove all clones and turn Mind Wrack into a skill that allows the Mesmer to shoot a laserbeam out of its mouth that can cut enemy players in half.

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You can't just repeat the post for others classes mechanics and act like you've made a point. The elementalist is balanced. The ranger is balanced. Firebrand is balanced. Mesmer might be balanced to players who can somehow spot the right one (strangely enough there's never a real tip for that from the chrono players who say it's easy), but that's the deal: most players can't, and that's saying something when there are so many complaints about the visual soup every Mesmer puts us in before making their one shot combo one second later.

I've tried to counter that too, duh. The only tip I got for that was to "spot the sword". The small, foggy, transparent, very quick sword that travels to me before the combo hits. To spot that thing in between 4 character models throwing their purple auto attacks, plus any other skill the Mesmer might have used, is a very poor idea of a "balanced" counter. Because here's the other thing: Every Mesmer animation is the same. You never know what they do. If their hard-hitting skills had some obvious animations like others classes, that might do the trick. But it's simply not the case.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:Higher skillcap, reducing the possibility of overstacking clones (because let's be honnest, the real limit is actually 6 with that several seconds delay). I don't know, I just feel like a player should use their skill to win something, instead of just overloading the ennemy's screen with useless information and blending in with the soup.

Given that people have been consistently begging for Chrono to go from 3 to 2 while regaining IP, there are probably limitations. I don't see why core/mirage would need it, they don't have CS or alacrity.

For chrono I actually I think it would be the better option.But mirage should get another downside.Overall IH should need adjustments for competitive modes a bit but it's mainly a noob filter. Anyone that isn't able to go to the options menu and toggle thicc health bars and seed out the real mesmer needs to learn that.

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@"ROMANG.1903" said:You can't just repeat the post for others classes mechanics and act like you've made a point. The elementalist is balanced. The ranger is balanced. Firebrand is balanced. Mesmer might be balanced to players who can somehow spot the right one (strangely enough there's never a real tip for that from the chrono players who say it's easy), but that's the deal: most players can't, and that's saying something when there are so many complaints about the visual soup every Mesmer puts us in before making their one shot combo one second later.

I've tried to counter that too, duh. The only tip I got for that was to "spot the sword". The small, foggy, transparent, very quick sword that travels to me before the combo hits. To spot that thing in between 4 character models throwing their purple auto attacks, plus any other skill the Mesmer might have used, is a very poor idea of a "balanced" counter. Because here's the other thing: Every Mesmer animation is the same. You never know what they do. If their hard-hitting skills had some obvious animations like others classes, that might do the trick. But it's simply not the case.

I agree about the "visual soup". I just disagree with the one shot combo.The combo itself is not a problem IMO, the real issue is that they can get away with it even if they miss the combo, because they clusterfuck your screen, port away, evade 10 times, stealth/invul/etc.

Also, i find Condi Mirage 10x more problematic than any other mesmer spec bcuz they actually maintain those 387 illusions while hitting with confusion and torment so you cant cast skills nor move :D sounds fun

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@"ROMANG.1903" said:You can't just repeat the post for others classes mechanics and act like you've made a point. The elementalist is balanced. The ranger is balanced. Firebrand is balanced. Mesmer might be balanced to players who can somehow spot the right one (strangely enough there's never a real tip for that from the chrono players who say it's easy), but that's the deal: most players can't, and that's saying something when there are so many complaints about the visual soup every Mesmer puts us in before making their one shot combo one second later.

I've tried to counter that too, duh. The only tip I got for that was to "spot the sword". The small, foggy, transparent, very quick sword that travels to me before the combo hits. To spot that thing in between 4 character models throwing their purple auto attacks, plus any other skill the Mesmer might have used, is a very poor idea of a "balanced" counter. Because here's the other thing: Every Mesmer animation is the same. You never know what they do. If their hard-hitting skills had some obvious animations like others classes, that might do the trick. But it's simply not the case.

I dont think people care to explain how to counter mesmer at this point, they just lube themselfs for another round of nerfs.truth be told, in a perfect world, where you know every single mesmer ability by hearth, you would never ever, not once be confused by illusion, since meta RN doesnt run stealth, or targetbreake.but we dont live in a perfect world, people dont even try to "know" how to spot the real mesmer.

this is a good example

warrior in question calls cmirage " cancer "he legit afked for 10s near the real one did nothing, facetanked several abilities and got away with it, becouse warrior is overtuned,if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

1 In that 10s mesmer used staff 2, that teleports him back and leaves clone -> gives away the real mesmer.2 then he followed up by torch 5 -> creates explosion around the mesmer -> gives away the real mesmer3 ran in an angle to warrior -> gives away its real mesmer4 used entire scepter 3 channel -> this one gives away the real one too, and im amazed that warrior was so bad that he didnt even notice it.

And then he goes ahead and says -> "good mesmer would be able to easily kill me here" -> all that time he facetanked for 10s, took no damage, used rampage and just randomly used stomp when mesmer was stealthed, that 1 hit, on stealthed mesmer did more dmg then entire 10s of combat on afking warrior.

TLDR. People dont try to learn or improve, and if they meet obstacle that needs some focus and info to succeed, they colapse and are unable to find solutions.

and for you to learn finding the real mesmer.make lvl 1 mesmer, go to mettablate, grab "meta" build. use EVERY ability, you have and look at animations, and where clones/phantasms are summoned compared to you.after 1hour you will be able to stop the real one reasonably fast.

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Yeah you can find the one mesmer, it's not the issue. Still you have to cross or get around all the clones, risk some more IH or shatter skills... then to cc him or burst him before he stealths away with so much ease. It has a lot of teleports / shadowstep, blocks, invu, evades, stealth, and obviously clones spam. The #2 staff that can teleport even if you're stunned is already a complete joke, it shouldn't be.If it's a l2p issue to fight Mirages, have mirages already tried to learn to play others classes to keep argue theuy're balanced ?

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@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Yeah you can find the one mesmer, it's not the issue. Still you have to cross or get around all the clones, risk some more IH or shatter skills... then to cc him or burst him before he stealths away with so much ease. It has a lot of teleports / shadowstep, blocks, invu, evades, stealth, and obviously clones spam. The #2 staff that can teleport even if you're stunned is already a complete joke, it shouldn't be.If it's a l2p issue to fight Mirages, have mirages already tried to learn to play others classes to keep argue theuy're balanced ?

I did, thats how I got to platinum, was hardstack gold for months on my mesmer, made a warrior mashed random buttons and ended up in plat, then decided to never touch this broken heap of stats ever again.

sorry to say that but the mesmer on the video was running 1 stealth.1 stealth every 30s, assuming spammed of cooldown1 staff tp, every 8s, assuming spammed of cd ( impossible to do since weapon swap )1 jaunt 450 tp every 30s.1 blink 1200 tp every 30s.

warrior in the video could run up to the mesmer, facetank all damage for 30s. hit him 3 times and kill him.but instead he afked 10s in one go then another 5s, wasted several important cooldowns. and know what ?he won that, becouse he denied decap. he played it AS BAD AS POSSBLE, I dont see a way for him to play it any worse, and yet he takes no damage keeps node capped. He was only punished becouse holo arrived ( power damage killed him ).

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

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@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you dont know what is a real one to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.only exeptions are -> stealth, axe 3, and that 35s evade ability whatever its called.and mesmer that stands still and uses autattack only deals no damage, even then you can kite behind wall, clones will walk up to you while real one wont.real one also has boons/conditions on him, or is missing health.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:...you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one...lol

its like, I cant find the real mesmer. didnt bother learning how to do that. so mesmer needs to be nerfed.I could see there being a tradeoff trait, that gives strong bonus, but reduces max clone by 1. Like 1 gm in every tree would be much stronger but remove 1 clone.could be fun.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

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@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

ok, i'll go with a normal fight so u can undestand my point of view :

Starting a fight with staff 3 and 2 (clones generation + evade), go scepter + torch then torch 4 (3 sec stealth), blink teleport behind the enemy scepter 3 then dodge + A (ambush) and signet of midnight.... just torch 4 + signet of midnight = 5 sec stealth......

And as i say again, not everyone can handle it and i don't call for a nerf just calm down, mirage is squichy and he need his clones and evade(dodge) to survive.

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