Obstacles on sPvP maps are a discrimination of unskilled players.

[Nabbut.7480]

On open map, a "skilled" player haves a solid chance to get swarmed and die like everyone else; on mazes like mutilated Coliseum he can 1v3 and win by kiting.

[Wisty.4135]

I can see this stance, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I know with these changes, I've been forced to consider line of sighting, spots where I can't be TP'd to, etc. Whereas on the old map I wouldn't have (and didn't). I think these are good changes, as they force a player to consider slightly more strategy to be successful.... But I will admit some maps have a bit too much "stuff" in the way.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Wisty.4135" said:I can see this stance, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I know with these changes, I've been forced to consider line of sighting, spots where I can't be TP'd to, etc. Whereas on the old map I wouldn't have (and didn't). I think these are good changes, as they force a player to consider slightly more strategy to be successful.... But I will admit some maps have a bit too much "stuff" in the way.

yep, reminded me of core necro that just sat on the wood platforms on glad coliseum, just bombarded with condi throught walls, or just by peaking, when you jump to him he fears you off and hits you throught walls, decaps and hops back on the planks. props to him for this cancer but holly cow was that boring.

[Wisty.4135]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:yep, reminded me of core necro that just sat on the wood platforms on glad coliseum, just bombarded with condi throught walls, or just by peaking, when you jump to him he fears you off and hits you throught walls, decaps and hops back on the planks. props to him for this cancer but holly cow was that boring.

True, and that'll happen - Cheese always happens. But did it force you to consider how you might best engage him or a similar player in the future?

(Playing devil's advocate here. I hate cheese like that.)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Wisty.4135 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:yep, reminded me of core necro that just sat on the wood platforms on glad coliseum, just bombarded with condi throught walls, or just by peaking, when you jump to him he fears you off and hits you throught walls, decaps and hops back on the planks. props to him for this cancer but holly cow was that boring.

True, and that'll happen - Cheese always happens. But did it force you to consider how you might best engage him or a similar player in the future?

(Playing devil's advocate here. I hate cheese like that.)

it did, i fucked off mid to have fun somewhere else, he can have his node. :Dfor all its worth that was funny and inovative, and not in any way too strong, there are classes/build that could take the node and keep it, just not mine.all im saying that if new player was there, he would propably keep trying, died and lost the node, without the right build to deal with this you just cant do anything.

[bravan.3876]

Just get good, seriously. Kiting is part of skill and should be learnt instead complaining in forums to get something removed you are just too lazy to get into. Coliseum is one of the best maps after the latest changes.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:Just get good, seriously. Kiting is part of skill and should be learnt instead complaining in forums to get something removed you are just too lazy to get into. Coliseum is one of the best maps after the latest changes.

I like coliseum too personally, but near a point there is just too much stuff, good players can just troll 1v3/1v4 on holo/warrior, chaining evades hiding behind walls, and you cant even follow them becouse they can hit through walls :/kiting is good and all but there should be limits, holo/mirage can just leap from 1 place to another and some classes take 10-15s to get to them.

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Just get good, seriously. Kiting is part of skill and should be learnt instead complaining in forums to get something removed you are just too lazy to get into. Coliseum is one of the best maps after the latest changes.

I like coliseum too personally, but near a point there is just too much stuff, good players can just troll 1v3/1v4 on holo/warrior, chaining evades hiding behind walls, and you cant even follow them becouse they can hit through walls :/kiting is good and all but there should be limits, holo/mirage can just leap from 1 place to another and some classes take 10-15s to get to them.

Every class can and should kite and get profit from it. That some classes have too much stuff can hit out of los/ through walls is another problem and has nothing to do with map structure. For Engi some hit through wall things got remove already, maybe Anet keeps that direction.

[Vancho.8750]

I'm more annoyed by old map JPs which are mostly pixel chasing and since when you are in combat you run slower you also jump less distance so you need swiftness to make the jump, but if you have slowing condition you are stuck on the ground so the whole point of using the JP is lost. On another hand some classes can just skip the jp and teleport. So if you are on boots on the ground build just take the long path.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Vancho.8750 said:I'm more annoyed by old map JPs which are mostly pixel chasing and since when you are in combat you run slower you also jump less distance so you need swiftness to make the jump, but if you have slowing condition you are stuck on the ground so the whole point of using the JP is lost. On another hand some classes can just skip the jp and teleport. So if you are on boots on the ground build just take the long path.

Yeah, I don't mind LOS -- but the jumping puzzle shenanigans mid combat are possibly the most annoying stalling techniques in the history of competitive play.

[Vancho.8750]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:I'm more annoyed by old map JPs which are mostly pixel chasing and since when you are in combat you run slower you also jump less distance so you need swiftness to make the jump, but if you have slowing condition you are stuck on the ground so the whole point of using the JP is lost. On another hand some classes can just skip the jp and teleport. So if you are on boots on the ground build just take the long path.

Yeah, I don't mind LOS -- but the jumping puzzle shenanigans mid combat are possibly the most annoying stalling techniques in the history of competitive play.It is Double annoying if you play Norn Warrior or necro. The speed increase decrease really fucks with my perception of distance surely you can step over that rock nope you bumped your toe on the pebble it is impossible hurdle. Started running Spectral grasp cause i couldn't be bothered with people on ledges.

[Chaith.8256]

Terrain discriminates against unskilled players? Wow, lurking forums for 7yrs and I wasn't prepared for this idea.

[rng.1024]

I don't see the issue, as kiting requires you to go off-point always. Just don't chase and cap it. If they can 1v3 you without giving the decap, map obstacles have nothing to do with it.

Solid advice:If 1 player is trolling your home node (regardless of profession/build), either leave the node altogether and come back later, or send only 1 duelist there to stall them. Any more than that, unless it ensures a really fast kill (within 30 sec), is a waste of time and points.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Coliseum is a bit overkill on the obstacles.

The ones right outside spawns are especially unneeded.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

discriminating obstacles? we should sue them for game place locational harassment!

[Infect.2738]

@Chaith.8256 said:Terrain discriminates against unskilled players? Wow, lurking forums for 7yrs and I wasn't prepared for this idea.

You and me both old friend.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:I'm more annoyed by old map JPs which are mostly pixel chasing and since when you are in combat you run slower you also jump less distance so you need swiftness to make the jump, but if you have slowing condition you are stuck on the ground so the whole point of using the JP is lost. On another hand some classes can just skip the jp and teleport. So if you are on boots on the ground build just take the long path.

Yeah, I don't mind LOS -- but the jumping puzzle shenanigans mid combat are possibly the most annoying stalling techniques in the history of competitive play.

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

@"paShadoWn.5723" said:On open map, a "skilled" player haves a solid chance to get swarmed and die like everyone else; on mazes like mutilated Coliseum he can 1v3 and win by kiting.

U already lose ur combat, it's kite wars 2, i've been like u at the begining, something like "what the heck with all this ppl runing/hiding/jumping everywhere instead of fighting like a man :) buuut time make me learn, it's a part of the game, u have to go to some privates servers and practice how to kite, the strategics points to hide, YOUR skills who helps u to kite, Good luck ;)

PS : I confirm that some points are really boring, like "The Henge" in Forest of Niflhel (left point), i can kill anyone there with a DE or Mirage just by kitting.

[Ralkuth.1456]

Well, if it’s:

(1) part of the game(2) not explicitly forbidden(3) gives advantage towards a win

Then it’s a mechanic to be used in combat. It’s so much more value for low mobility classes like Guardian to be able to avoid things through LoS and kiting. In fact to be able to know when/where/how to kite + react to enemy animations = skills that increase your chances to climb out of Gold.

OP isn’t literally talking about it being unfair though, just mentioning this, right?

https://sirlin.squarespace.com/ptwI’m not great at games but I remember this.

[Bladestrom.6425]

Op has got it the wrong way around, the first thing a new player should learn to do is use obstacles to negate the skill advantage

[Falan.1839]

This post pretty much summarizes what is wrong with this community.

[reikken.4961]

I like how everyone is playing this straight. So straight that I almost think that we aren't all collectively in on the joke.