Desert Borderland: 4 Years Later.

[TheMaskedGamer.5708]

Greetings.

I'm very curious about the community's perspective about the Desert Borderlands after 4 years of its existence.

From what I can tell, it is still considered an unpopular map. Very convoluted, slow to navigate (Although Gliding and Warclaw may have resolved some of these issues) and so on. Considering what I've experienced, almost no one or very few enemy worlds would touch Red team's borderland. Seemingly giving the red team a free pass of points cause no one wants to play in it.

I wish to as a few questions to get a better understanding of the current mindset of today's players regarding the map. Please answer as thoroughly as possible:

1. When it comes to your current WvW experience, how often do you play in the Desert Borderland Map?

2. Do you enjoy your time playing in the map if at all?

3. What makes playing this map enjoyable/unenjoyable/both?(Positives and/or Negatives)

4. Has the additions of Gliding and Warclaw made things better when it comes to traveling in there?

5. What makes Alpine more appealing to play in than Desert if you do not like Desert?

6. What make Desert more appealing than Alpine if you like Desert?

7. If there are any positives or interesting implementations to the Desert Borderland that you like, what are they? If there are any, would you want to see these be added to Alpine or apossible Green Borderland?

8. Would you want Desert Borderland to be reworked or redesigned? If so to what extent? Small redesigns or a full rework/remake? Please explain.

9. If there are any lessons that Anet could learn when redeveloping or making something new for the future designs of borderlands (if they ever do), what would they be?

10. Here answer with any additional thoughts or opinions on the matter at hand.

Looking forward to learning more.

Kind regards,TheMaskedGamer

[Vavume.8065]

Never

No

[TheMaskedGamer.5708]

@Vavume.8065 said:

1. Never
2. No

What would you change? What would you want Desert Borderland to be more appealing or overall an objectively better map?

[Ototo.3214]

I'm mainly a PvE player that really only goes to WvW atm to mess around with friends while we get easy WvW dailies. But I can confirm that I hate the desert borderland map and will only go there if it is the only option I currently have to get a daily.

My main frustration with it is mainly just....attempting to navigate it. Like I said, I'm not a big WvW player, so when I do go to the map I can't figure out how to get from point A to point B in a reasonable amount of time sometimes and it's pointlessly frustrating. I think the main issue is just with the lower half of the map, where there's either a bunch of cliffs or scaffolding and such. Sometimes you have to go through some portal apparently but it's not very intuitive.

If they could somehow make it more intuitive to navigate it would probably make it more enjoyable. The only thing I kinda like in it compared to Alpine is the Shrines being more interesting than Ruins but that's really all I can think of.

[Danikat.8537]

The desert borderland is actually my favourite, because there's more variety which makes going round in circles capturing, re-capturing and occasionally defending the same objectives over and over marginally more interesting. (I find WvW as a whole quite repeative, it's fine for short periods but I wouldn't want it play it all the time.)

There's more variety of terrain in the desert borderlands, not what it looks like but how its navigated and it uses a lot of the ideas from the Edge of the Mists like the shrines which give different bonuses. Which also means there's more for a solo player to do until a group shows up. I don't mind the other WvW maps but I always chest Desert first when I start, and it's the one I'm most likely to play in if they're all equally active.

[Omega.6801]

1) Every now and then, though the other maps are more popular with my guild2) I enjoy the map a lot, but then again I'm he person who enjoys EotM as well, so my oppinion might not count for much.3) It takes more time to get to know the maps and the best walkways from A to B. But it's different that the "old" maps and more complex, that's why I like it.4) Gliding and the mount made WvW a whole lot more playable for me, walking is just so slow.5) I think players prefer the straight forward style of the Alpine maps, also Desert requires more movement skills("JP"ing around) and some players are bad at those.6) same question as 37) I don't think that Alpine needs shrines or anything like that.8) Nah, Desert is fine. I'd rather have ANet offer a third variety of BL to play around with.9) Less pitfalls, keep it simple, it's WvW not JP-Wars. The enemy should be the opposing players not the terrain or the map design.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"TheMaskedGamer.5708" said:

1. When it comes to your current WvW experience, how often do you play in the Desert Borderland Map?

Whenever I can/there is a zerg on it. Or PPT'ing in a small roamer group at night.

2. Do you enjoy your time playing in the map if at all?

It is my favorite WvW map.

3. What makes playing this map enjoyable/unenjoyable/both?(Positives and/or Negatives)

It's vast, has beautiful designs (Undercroft <3) and has some interesting verticality. You need to learn your way around it, and it's quite diverse. You can break into objects from so many different sides, it makes for great cat-and-mouse hunts at times.

4. Has the additions of Gliding and Warclaw made things better when it comes to traveling in there?

The launch pads and electric clouds/winds/whatever they are called are fun to use. My absolut favorite, however, are the piles of hay; I love landing on those from great heights. Also like the lava portals.

5. What makes Alpine more appealing to play in than Desert if you do not like Desert?

Alpine gets boring quickly, especially since we have two of those. It's time for a new map to replace one of them.

6. What make Desert more appealing than Alpine if you like Desert?

Already answered this before. See (3).

7. If there are any positives or interesting implementations to the Desert Borderland that you like, what are they? If there are any, would you want to see these be added to Alpine or a possible Green Borderland?

None of them would fit on a flat, monotonous map like the Alpine Borderland, at least I can't imagine it.

8. Would you want Desert Borderland to be reworked or redesigned? If so to what extent? Small redesigns or a full rework/remake? Please explain.

Can't think of anything from the top of my head.

9. If there are any lessons that Anet could learn when redeveloping or making something new for the future designs of borderlands (if they ever do), what would they be?

I like to be surprised. Anything diverse would have my vote.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"TheMaskedGamer.5708" said:

1. When it comes to your current WvW experience, how often do you play in the Desert Borderland Map?

About 1/3 the time I am on a Borderland.

2. Do you enjoy your time playing in the map if at all?
3. What makes playing this map enjoyable/unenjoyable/both?(Positives and/or Negatives)
4. What makes Alpine more appealing to play in than Desert if you do not like Desert?
5. What make Desert more appealing than Alpine if you like Desert?

I find the map design does not matter to my enjoyment. If I am enjoying WvW "today" at all, then Desert is no less (or more) enjoying than the other maps.

4. Has the additions of Gliding and Warclaw made things better when it comes to traveling in there?

Yes, getting around faster has enhanced my general experience of WvW, and this makes the DBL more enjoyable.

7. If there are any positives or interesting implementations to the Desert Borderland that you like, what are they? If there are any, would you want to see these be added to Alpine or a possible Green Borderland?
8. If there are any lessons that Anet could learn when redeveloping or making something new for the future designs of borderlands (if they ever do), what would they be?

More variety is better than less variety.

8. Would you want Desert Borderland to be reworked or redesigned? If so to what extent? Small redesigns or a full rework/remake? Please explain.

The center area seems wasted. Streamline it a bit to make getting through it easier. Maybe also clone the center of the map as it is now, and put it into a separate WvW area, and use shards of this map to allow groups to use it (either arranged or random draw) for 10v10 or 20v20, which would actually create an area for GvG combat.

10. Here answer with any additional thoughts or opinions on the matter at hand.

That's all I've got, thanks for asking.

[starlinvf.1358]

DBL's strengths are also its problems. The division in opinion is largely caused by how you feel about what its accomplishing. Its nature as a hybrid between EBG, Edge and ABLs also seems to lead to people thinking its going "too far" or "not too far enough".

Honestly I think its better to change the focus of the questions about what players think an ideal map should be like (and assuming they're going to use vague descriptors), to break down how DBL is hitting points for those demographics.

[Cyninja.2954]

Simple answer:The desert Borderland is completely overdesigned. I get that the developers in charge wanted to add fun mechanics and strategic elements galore, but this completely misses the mark.

More complex answer:

• The Desert Borderland has more mechanics, movement and special abilities spread out between its objective as all the other borders combined. Most of these mechanics very unintuitive on top of that.
• The big hight differences and paths, while less an issue with gliding and mounts today, prevent big groups from moving between objectives. It's literally designed to keep players from engaging each other as fast as possible.
• the keeps are designed more for winning a beauty and design contest, than actual fun gameplay, though Palace is okay (and they are way to big currently for proper anti stealth gameplay)

In general you want border maps to enhance the main gameplay experience. Less design with maybe some key elements (not as many as there are now) is way better for sandbox content like WvW. The alpine borders are strait forward, allow for minimal unintuitive objectives to interfere with gameplay and in general still offer enough tactical depths for commanders to outplay opponents.

It's the same issue that Edge of the Mists face. Totally overdesigned with way to many distracting elements. Not to mention that it's not fun to navigate a blob through small bridges and cliffs. Remove elements which cause player death due to falling damage to strategic positions only if need be.

To be honest, all it would take is a reskin of the alpine border with minor adjustments to keep design, terrain design, camp placements and maybe 1-2 unique "special" mechanics per map. This would also greate better balance between which ever side has red (worst map to defend only balanced by the fact that it sees the least play) and the sides which have blue/green.

[Ashen.2907]

I would love the DBL as a pve map, but am not particularly interested in the sense of exploration in a competitive game mode.

[Acheron.4731]

Get rid of the entire middle of the map,,,make all objectives close and strategically located (even more-so than borderlands) and I think it will quickly become a favorite vs a t-u-r-d with sand

[Leablo.2651]

Well it is basically HoT: the WvW map. Everything that has been said about HoT map navigation is at the core of the problem with Desert, and further exacerbated by the lack of intuitive PvE movement aids like bouncing mushrooms, nuhoch wallows, etc. Or in short, it is like trying to play HoT maps while trying to keep the design equitable for core players (so no movement masteries or effective mounts).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The number one rule of war maps in games is that the combat has to be focused towards the center, for some reason ArenaNet always puts it all around the outside, I guess to make people travel around more, but that just takes away from the action. If you can't log on and immediately know where to go for a fight and have a general idea of where the party is then its a bad PvP design.

This is why EB is such a popular map, because it was designed properly, Stonemist is the "arena" of the map, while the outlying objectives serve as targets for small groups and roamers to harass. All the other maps are poor in comparison, and Desert Borderlands is the worst.

Remember that the goal of a war game is to have people in combat, as much as possible.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@TheMaskedGamer.5708 said:I'm very curious about the community's perspective about the Desert Borderlands after 4 years of its existence.

It's a good place to go grab some ranger pets.

[arielwind.8921]

Whenever my guild mates raiding in Desert BL. Almost 50%

Pretty much

We've keep fighting more than 7 years in SAME MAPs! That's insane. I wondered why everybody don't get bored in EBG/Alpine.

Yes, absolutely.

Not applicable.

Same as #3 answer. I need new tactics.

Something that makes faster to engage opponent. Possibly some transportation.

Tower of Aion (one of NCsoft mmo) has mid-air combat in WvW. That was pretty fun. So how about to test flying mount (with mount weapon) in Desert BL. Each object has airborn shield, once shield generator destroyed that placed in the middle of tower/keep, enemy can fly into there. (This is Tower of Aion mechanics)

Not really.

Need mid-air, underwater combat.

I want to see Gw2 version of Star Wars space ship fight...

Everybody fly and get on board huge air-ship(like Super Star Destroyer) and do 3-way fight in the ship, to get supreme leader.

[Marxx.5021]

Desert borderland would be a great PvE map. I always had favoured the older map for its clean design that let you focus on what WvW is about.

[Fueki.4753]

As far as I know, they still haven't updated the Veteran creature to include Desert BL monsters.So, the only time I check it are when I can't kill a caravan on the other maps, for the caravan daily.

[Ben K.6238]

From my perspective it's mostly unpopular because of the dual disadvantages of being a borderland map and being more complex than the alternative one.

1/2. I don't play DBL very often at all, largely because I only play WvW a few times a month and there's very little action outside EB at the times I play (and even that is often quiet). It's my favourite WvW map but there's seldom any reason to go there.

3. I solo roam a lot, so a map that gives you lots of back routes and partially obscured places to duck the zergs is always going to be favourable to me. The environment art of DBL appeals to me more than the other WvW maps too.
4. Because I enjoyed the complexities of traversing DBL, I've had little need for additional movement options to make that easier, though they haven't been unwelcome. They've been more significant to my experience in Alpine where paths and traversability are more clear-cut.5/6/7/8. If anything, DBL's main draw for me over Alpine has been a bigger sense of scale. Alpine is something of a tiny theme park that feels rather more restrictive, and I'm not a fan of the ability to attack structures from other structures - I prefer how DBL was arranged so you have to be able to defend your siege in the open field if you're trying to break into a structure. The two systems appeal to different players though, so my preference for handling these in future would be to cater to both. I'd like to see these borderlands (and any possible future borderlands) adjusted to be three-way maps like EB that try not to inherently favour any particular side, but that's the extent of it.
5. The biggest lesson would be that spending too much time developing a map is risky, because there's no guarantee that everyone will like it anyway. ANet hold themselves to very high quality standards, which is admirable in many ways but for WvW they've been making the perfect into an enemy of the good. It doesn't need to be. They've got a massive library of finished art, and it does not take very long to put together a quick and dirty prototype map with reused art.

It will be rough around the edges at first, but it's fantastic for adding some variety and WvW has never been competitive enough to worry about whether each team starts on perfectly equal terrain. The other bonus to quickly prototyped content is that for any maps that do have big problems, you've got plenty of fallbacks. Then players' favourite maps can be polished if that looks like a productive use of resources.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

As a PvE scrub dabbling in roaming and occasional dailies, I love DBL because it's generally fewer people there.

@Marxx.5021 said:Desert borderland would be a great PvE map. I always had favoured the older map for its clean design that let you focus on what WvW is about.

There's a Wurm by SE camp and a Warg by S camp that counts. There's also a Tiger between the two southern Ruins, but I'm not 100% sure that counts for Daily.

[Knighthonor.4061]

good survey

[Rubius.9280]

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:As a PvE scrub dabbling in roaming and occasional dailies, I love DBL because it's generally fewer people there.

@Marxx.5021 said:Desert borderland would be a great PvE map. I always had favoured the older map for its clean design that let you focus on what WvW is about.

There's a Wurm by SE camp and a Warg by S camp that counts. There's also a Tiger between the two southern Ruins, but I'm not 100% sure that counts for Daily.

The tiger does not, but there's also a Veteran Harpy near the eastern keep (high in the ruins) that will count for your veteran dailies and wxp.

For OP: My guild used to hate the desert BL but after spending a lot of time defending on it, we slowly warmed up to it. There are some really neat tricks you can employ due to the terrain, and in my opinion much of WvW for havoc squads does rely on being sneaky and finding good spots to use that terrain to surprise your enemies. The only problem with the map is that the vertical nature of it is very difficult for newer players to understand, and does take some time for them to figure out if they aren't following their commander or are trying to get to one.

[Jethro.9376]

As others have stated the biggest upside for DBL is also a big flaw.

For me DBL has to many "dead zones" and thus resulting in a mapsize that's not really there. Given APL has a few dead areas aswell but it doesn't matter because they're not in the middle of a keep and you don't need to cross that field of "nothing".

The shrine mechanics is a good idea but how often is it really used? I rarely play on DBL but when i do i almost never make use of them because i just don't need to.

[Blocki.4931]

As with all WvW maps it has areas that are largely unused. I'm pretty sure 80% of people don't even know there are wyverns in the top right corner.

Other than that I prefer it over any other map. The way height plays a role in defense, attack and general movement is neat. Alpine is bland and boring in comparison.

[Gop.8713]

1) I never really leave home bl, so whenever it's my home bl . . .2) Yes, it's great. Prefer it slightly over alpine . . .3) Tend to be fewer players and I like smallscale/low pop. Also since it's more spread out you're less likely to be interrupted by other players once you've selected enemies to engage . . .4) I wouldn't say better, just different . . ?5) N/A . . .6) Stated above . . .7) No, I like that there are things unique to desert, I wouldn't want them introduced into other bls . . .8) Not really. But there is this big space in the middle that isn't really being used for anything, if you've ever noticed . . .9) Don't be too different, gw2 players adapt poorly . . .10) I'm very tall . . .