Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

[Rukia.4802]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Rukia.4802 said:When your predecessor template system is 10x better you know theres a problem or miscommunication at arenanetUnfortunately, i'm quite sure that the current situation was not due to miscommunication and mismanagement, but due to the management prioritising monetizing that QoL over its actual usefulness to anyone.It's not that they failed to design it well. It's that they intentionally designed it into that state, because the system being useful was

not

the overriding priority.

I agree its clearly intentional when they could have made actual templates with equipment templates like GW1.A very simple and easy to use unlimited copy pasta save/load system was too hard? No just not able to be monetized because it works too well LOL.

[Infusion.7149]

@kharmin.7683 said:@"Balthzar.3807" I get what you're saying. Truly, I do. But you are just one player out of (probably) millions. Your $200/month loss may not be so significant to Anet, and they are willing to accept that.

I was questioning the other poster who wanted this to be something account wide for legendary, ascended and other items that are not soul bound. My devil's advocate point was Anet probably wouldn't accommodate that request because doing so only gets money from a player one time whereas the current model allows for multiple transactions should a player want the 'full' system. Granted, most players probably haven't purchased all of the available load-out slots, so my question might not be on solid ground. Only Anet has the figures and knows whether or not the current template system is a financial success (or enough of one) that satisfies their investors.

As a casual, non-competition mode player, the current system suits me fine and I haven't had to buy anything beyond what was originally released. I've thought about it, but even I wasn't willing to justify the cost. I completely understand where the non-casual (raid, WvW, PvP) crowd gets their anger, especially as the official system, to them, no way replaces ARC. I never used ARC, so I can't say; but I do understand the discontent.

I just keep coming back to the same question for the suggestions in this thread: what's in it for ANet? There is no way that we can know the financial reasons and/or repercussions of this decision and implementation.

Now, if someone could come up with a solution that makes enough profit for Anet (including whatever developing resources would have to be expended), then I'm certain that they would listen. There aren't many things that speak louder to a company than dollars.

Equipment templates should have worked with shared inventory slots or an accountwide storage so GW2 could sell those instead at a higher cost for people with legendary items across characters. In its current state they're reasonable when compared against bag slots (400 gems=20-32 slots) or inventory space in bank if you have ascended (600 gems = 30 slots) but once you buy a bunch of them they can easily get out of hand. The best way to solve that is bulk packs (say 5 or 9 , 1 for each class to WvW with) or unlocking all for a character at a reduced rate.

Because of the templates system on the one hand you can link people new to WvW a build template. The problem is if it's not a backline class then you need sustain which means an equipment template is more or less mandatory unless only one equipment template is used for PvE.

As you stated you don't play competitive and are casual, technically 2 equipment templates covers almost all berserker+viper non-support builds. So if someone wants to play the common non-raid supports such as quickness firebrand or alacrity renegade and maybe druid (less common now) that's 2-3 equip templates provided the player intends to retain power+condition tabs.

Build templates could have been accountwide as iterated multitudes of times ; if it has to be increased to 800 gems per build template like crafting license it wouldn't be out of hand. I don't think this is likely to change retroactively given the amount of time that has passed though. If you don't play competitive modes you can repurpose the 2nd and 3rd build templates for PvE. Unless there's a dire need for hotswapping of builds faster than plopping a chatcode, it just isn't enticing in its current state.

I doubt anyone buys build storage in its current implementation but it could have multiple times larger limit and the existing implementation if kept paid should retroactively add that multiple (i.e. instead of 3 slots , 9 or 10 slots per purchase ... consider bank tab is 30 slots and is 600 gems). If kept paid, the least amount of coding is upping the limit on maximum slots and changing 3 slots per purchase to a higher number. When the next PvP season starts that would be a good time to expand build storage limits.

If you look at what was in the build storage + template pack it was clearly disconnected with instanced PvE and WvW.Look at the likely scenarios:

• "I only login on living world patch day" Someone only plays openworld PvE + living story , why buy templates
• "I only login for non-raid PvE" Someone plays strikes/fractals , then they might opt for 2-3 templates (repurpose PvP build template #2 for PvE) or a different character slot
• "I only play WvW at reset" Someone plays openworld PvE + story and casual WvW on weekend so needs equipment templates for a few common WvW setups so doesn't need to remember gear
• "I don't raid except in WvW" Someone plays openworld PvE with only instanced strikes/fractals and WvW a few days a week , needs at least 2-3 templates
• "I only play PvE to get materials/food to WvW with" Someone plays PvE with intent to make ascended trinkets + weapon/ armor, with no other incentive to PvE , probably needs no equipment templates if running marauder WvW gear
• Someone plays instanced PvE and a few matches of PvP several times a week
• "I only login on raid reset" Someone plays raids and min maxes, then likely more equipment templates and possibly build template if they need build template #3 for WvW
• (mixed mode daily player) Someone plays fractal dailies + PvP dailies + WvW at reset / WvW dailies
• PvP -only player , why buy templates ... only time it makes sense is if you store different rune/amulet per tab and have over 2 setups but also multiple builds : the incentive is low since hotswapping disallowed once match starts

The bundle offered twice thus far was 2 build , 2 equipment , 1 build storage (3 slots) , plus some boosters ... how does that address the majority of people?

• PvE only players need zero build templates if they buy an equipment template or two.
• PvE+WvW casual players could use additional equipment templates such that build template #1+2 = PvE , build template #3 = WvW
• mostly WvW players could use equipment templates but most people I asked just buy character slots because it means you get 3 WvW builds (3 build templates) + 2 equipment templates just for WvW purposes
• PvP-only players don't really need build templates since they're locked in once match starts: they need build storage more. Unlike WvW which needs many clicks for swapping gear, PvP amulet + rune + sigils is all that's swapped if the weapons are correct. Equipment templates have far lower appeal as a result for PvP.
• The only time build templates become meaningful without equipment templates is if you want to hotswap builds that share equipment such as power sword weaver and power tempest (since elementalists gained weaponswap out of combat) , power guardian + power dragonhunter, power rifle holo + power sword holo, power soulbeast + power core ranger, or power berserker/warrior to spellbreaker , power staff daredevil + power deadeye (only weapon change)

Some ideas for packages:PvE-only support build package (i.e. firebrand+renegade+chrono+heal druid/tempest/scourge): 5 equipment templates for 20% off (limit up to 2x?) = 2000 gems---> the reason is the majority of PvE players will repurpose their PvP/WvW build tabs for PvE, meaning they have access to 3 build templates but only 2 equipment templatesWvW classic "core" pack (4 "core" classes: Guardian Warrior Ele Necro) : 4 equipment templates for 20% off = 1600 gems---> this allows PvE+WvW (i.e not playing PvP) people to have a WvW equipment setup without having to get build templatesWvW "legion" package (firebrand, scourge/reaper, scrapper, spellbreaker/cleric warrior, tempest/weaver, condi rev/ backline herald, staff daredevil): 9-10 equipment templates at ~25-33% off , one time limit = 3000-3500 gems instead of 4500 gems for 9 equipment templatesAvant-garde build theorist / Min-max / "I only play one class >90% of the time" / "let me swap to my main" pack: maxed equipment templates , maxed build templates for one character (so in total 4 equipment templates @ 500 gems and 3 build templates @ 300 gems normally = 2900 gems) at around 1600 gems or ~ 45% reductionIt's been data-mined that there can be up to 10 equipment/build templates so if that is implemented this would have higher cost (8 equip+7 build templates= 6100 gems) but higher discount to around 3000 gems---> also applies to PvE raid mesmer which has 5 different meta builds , meaning if you WvW on that character you're looking at easily maxed equip / build templates---> the other major offender currently is revenant (berserker for power herald, viper for condi, diviner for alacrity, harrier for heals = 4 total just for PvE), as the skill changes have made condi quickness firebrand share most of the equipment with condi firebrand (before it was power, condi, condi quickness, heal/support)"Who needs anything other than berserker+viper's in PvE" maxed build templates pack (especially useful for elementalists , necros, and warriors) : if datamined 10 build templates becomes true then 7 @ 300 gems each adds up so ~1050-1250 gems (~ 40-50% discount)---> a build templates package would need to be competitive both with added character slots (800 gems = 3 build templates) and build storage (500 gems = 3 build storage currently) but this highlights build template character-bound pricing problems.Versatile player / "I play all 3 modes on 9 classes" pack : 9 equipment templates @ 500 gems + 9 build templates @ 300 gems at 3600 gems (~50% off)

At the end of the day the pricing needs to be competitive with character slots which offer 3 build templates extra (900 gems total), + 1 equipment template (500 gems) or two if you consider a completely new stat combination, with that in mind:Hypothetical guardian player plays all 3 modes (or even just PvE+WvW), needs power DH/core guard+condi FB+quickness FB+healbrand/minstrel firebrandequip #1 , build template #1 = power DH/ core guardequip #2 , build template #2 = condi FBequip #3 , build template #3 = heal/support FB ... can be used in WvW if minstrelequip #4 , build template #4 = condi quickness firebrand (alternatively build storage)if playing PvP , build template #5 = PvP

You'd want 2 equipment, 2-3 build templates (or build storage). Why would such a person not just buy a character slot so that power DH+condi DPS are one character , while heal support/quickness are a separate character? Guardian is the most played class so it isn't a rare scenario. Indeed many players have done this.

Some of the other more common classes are warrior , necromancer, elementalist, and ranger (PvE). Let's look at those typically run in the "GWEN" core WvW classes.Warrior:equip #1 , build template #1 = power berserker DPS (banner) or core warrior power DPS (banner)equip #2 , build template #2 = condi berserker DPSequip #3 (option if clicks to weapon swap is an issue) , build template #3 = spellbreaker (alternatively build storage)equip #4 WvW (marauder/cleric), build template #4 spellbreaker with sustain / tactics shouts warriorif playing PvP , build template #5 = PvPYou'd want 1 equipment , 2-3 build templates (although PvE spellbreaker can go in build storage unless you play fractals with boons often). PvE-only? No build templates required technically.

Elementalist:equip #1 , build template #1 = power weaverequip #1 , build template #2 / build storage = power tempestequip #2 , build template #3 / build storage = condi weaver for the piano players (less common after focus changes)equip #3, build template #4/ build storage = heal tempestequip #4 (WvW marauder weaver /minstrel tempest) shared build template with power weaver/heal tempest or added build template / build storage for twist of fate + extra sustain utilities on weaverif playing PvP , build template #5 = pvpYou'd want 1-2 equipment (if playing heal tempest) templates, build templates. For most people playing openworld and not playing WvW in organized squads, there's no reason to run heal tempest. If build templates were accountwide then the 1-2 equipment templates for elementalist would be roughly a character slot.

Necromancer:equip #1 , build template #1 = power reaperequip #2 , build template #2 = condi scourgeequip #3 , build template #3 = WvW scourge (celestial/trailblazer)equip #4 , build template #4 = heal support scourge (optional)if playing PvP ,build template #5 = PvPSo you'd want 2 equipment depending on if you play a support scourge in PVE,1-2 build template. The better option is to have one character for power reaper /core condi (PvP), one character for condi scourge + support scourge If build templates were accountwide then the 1-2 equipment templates would be roughly a character slot.

Even just considering these 4 classes the pricing model doesn't hold up to character slots due to the form of build template monetization.

edit: It may have been trimmed from my post due to the forum glitching out, but another reason to change the monetization is if everyone is using berserker's and viper's then it is really difficult for people to form any form of organized instanced PvE or WvW squad with supports. That means it is a less pleasant experience for all players and a lower competent geared playerbase for harder strike missions and organized WvW. If they're trying to introduce players to raids via strikes , then there really should be a way to have support classes adopted by more people. If you look at the LFG grouping system, people always are looking for HB (healbrand aka healing firebrand) / quickbrand (quickness firebrand) and alacrity renegade (because chrono requires sitting in well range for entire duration to receive alacrity so it has lower potential).

The availability of build templates and the build template+equipment bundle made no dent in gem to gold pricing unlike every character slot sale so I can't imagine them making proper ROI on this system.

edit 2: Also, I'm pretty sure that an attractive (i.e. high uptake) template purchase is in Arenanet's best interest since a character slot definitely takes more data (you have inventory , story, location of character, wardrobe, map completion, finishers, dyes, etc).

[kharmin.7683]

@Infusion.7149 What an incredible post! Well done. A lot of (in my opinion) reasonable options and ideas. Thank you for taking the time.

[kharmin.7683]

A note on legendary equipment and templates: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100933/legendary-equipment-and-templates

[CarlJunior.7832]

Can I trade my second heavy legendary set for a medium one since the second heavy one is useless now :)

[TPMN.1483]

So it becomes even cheaper to have multiple characters than it does for equipment templates (aka loadouts) with this proposed update from anet as could potentially just share leg armour/weapons/rings.

One good way of checking what players think of items is by looking at what is being offered on sale in the gem store and if there is a noticeable rise in the gold -> gem cost. Build templates went on sale and there was no real rise, character slots went on sale and the gold->gem cost went up by over 50g/ for 400 gems.

[kharmin.7683]

@TPMN.1483 said:So it becomes even cheaper to have multiple characters than it does for equipment templates (aka loadouts) with this proposed update from anet as could potentially just share leg armour/weapons/rings.

One good way of checking what players think of items is by looking at what is being offered on sale in the gem store and if there is a noticeable rise in the gold -> gem cost. Build templates went on sale and there was no real rise, character slots went on sale and the gold->gem cost went up by over 50g/ for 400 gems.

This may not directly correlate. I know players who don't raid or even use templates who were waiting for character slots to go on sale. That's not to say that your point doesn't have merit; rather, it may not be a 1:1 causality.

[TPMN.1483]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TPMN.1483 said:So it becomes even cheaper to have multiple characters than it does for equipment templates (aka loadouts) with this proposed update from anet as could potentially just share leg armour/weapons/rings.

One good way of checking what players think of items is by looking at what is being offered on sale in the gem store and if there is a noticeable rise in the gold -> gem cost. Build templates went on sale and there was no real rise, character slots went on sale and the gold->gem cost went up by over 50g/ for 400 gems.

This may not directly correlate. I know players who don't raid or even use templates who were waiting for character slots to go on sale. That's not to say that your point doesn't have merit; rather, it may not be a 1:1 causality.

Char slots were on sale in the last week : March 13, 2020 - March 14, 2020 : 25% OffGold -> Gem prices rose from 37 Gold -> Gem to 40 Gold -> Gem. (A 10% rise in the raw price)

There recently was one of the build storage expansions on sale (not shown on the wiki) last week and the gold->gem price hardly moved.

[Balthzar.3807]

lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

[Nivelis.8763]

its so frustrating when your pvp equipment change your pve equipment. I have different weapons on my pvp set so when I play pvp it takes wrong weapon, when I set up all properly it changes my pve setup after play removing my sigils and infusions. Its soo annoying why its not fixed after so many months?

[kharmin.7683]

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Nivelis.8763 said:its so frustrating when your pvp equipment change your pve equipment. I have different weapons on my pvp set so when I play pvp it takes wrong weapon, when I set up all properly it changes my pve setup after play removing my sigils and infusions. Its soo annoying why its not fixed after so many months?

So we will buy an extra slot for PvP.

[Curunen.8729]

There's a couple of quality of life things I want to see:

• Build and Equipment template linking - use one keybind to change both at the same time.
• Template Name popup on change - so it is clear which one you are swapping to.

But especially the first, it's stupid to have double sets of keybinds to swap build and equipment separately when you should just be able to press one button and swap them together.

[zealex.9410]

Monthly reminder than the on sale values for the templates is the pricing they should've been introduced by default and that trait/ skill templates should be by default free...

Also remove the revert button and instead add edit/save template function

[Balthzar.3807]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

hey was looking to hear from Anet not you, but thanks for chirping in (you are pretty good at that). I would like to hear from an Anet employee in the future when I direct a question to them.

Thanks for trying to be a help but it was not helpful. unless you speak for Anet?

Good Day Kharmin

[Linken.6345]

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

hey was looking to hear from Anet not you, but thanks for chirping in (you are pretty good at that). I would like to hear from an Anet employee in the future when I direct a question to them.

Thanks for trying to be a help but it was not helpful. unless you speak for Anet?

Good Day Kharmin

Good luck with that bud it happens once every 10k posts Id say.

[Balthzar.3807]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

hey was looking to hear from Anet not you, but thanks for chirping in (you are pretty good at that). I would like to hear from an Anet employee in the future when I direct a question to them.

Thanks for trying to be a help but it was not helpful. unless you speak for Anet?

Good Day Kharmin

Good luck with that bud it happens once every 10k posts Id say.

oh I know that and not holding my breath its just certain figures on these forums think they are Anet

[kharmin.7683]

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

hey was looking to hear from Anet not you, but thanks for chirping in (you are pretty good at that). I would like to hear from an Anet employee in the future when I direct a question to them.

Thanks for trying to be a help but it was not helpful. unless you speak for Anet?

Good Day Kharmin

Good luck with that bud it happens once every 10k posts Id say.

oh I know that and not holding my breath its just certain figures on these forums think they are Anet

I have never once indicated that I am in any way affiliated with Arenanet.

[Balthzar.3807]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

hey was looking to hear from Anet not you, but thanks for chirping in (you are pretty good at that). I would like to hear from an Anet employee in the future when I direct a question to them.

Thanks for trying to be a help but it was not helpful. unless you speak for Anet?

Good Day Kharmin

Good luck with that bud it happens once every 10k posts Id say.

oh I know that and not holding my breath its just certain figures on these forums think they are Anet

I have never once indicated that I am in any way affiliated with Arenanet.sorry wasn't talking to you didn't realize you were quoted there. sorry you personalized it

[kharmin.7683]

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.

hey was looking to hear from Anet not you, but thanks for chirping in (you are pretty good at that). I would like to hear from an Anet employee in the future when I direct a question to them.

Thanks for trying to be a help but it was not helpful. unless you speak for Anet?

Good Day Kharmin

Good luck with that bud it happens once every 10k posts Id say.

oh I know that and not holding my breath its just certain figures on these forums think they are Anet

I have never once indicated that I am in any way affiliated with Arenanet.sorry wasn't talking to you didn't realize you were quoted there. sorry you personalized it

I appreciate that. Just didn't want anyone to think that I was impersonating Anet or anything. ;)

[Astralporing.1957]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.Of course. After all, monetization was the only purpose of this system. Functionality was never important. Nor was player satisfaction.So, everything is indeed completely fine. After all, correcting any issues players might see would require the system to get reprioritized towards completely different purpose, and we simply can't have that.

[Ashantara.8731]

My Ranger has reached his limit of Equipment loadout slots. Why?

Slot 1: PvE Power SoulbeastSlot 2: ditto, only that the 2nd weapon set is replaced by a longbowSlot 3: PvE Condition SoulbeastSlot 4: Raid Heal Support DruidSlot 5: WvW Power SoulbeastSlot 6: ditto, only that the 2nd weapon set is replaced by a longbow

Now, two slots are being wasted because my longbow happens to be a legendary, and the PvE and WvW builds use different upgrades, so I can't switch to longbow on the run without using an extra equipment slot (because it resets when not embedded in a loadout). I would have to redo the stats all over each time I equip it from my inventory.

Two extra slots for just a minor weapon swap. That's insane!

Can we please get a higher number of Equipment Template slots, if nothing else?

[kharmin.7683]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Balthzar.3807 said:lets not forget about this thread. looking for an update possibly time frame or some information about correcting issues

Working as intended. There are no issues to correct.Of course. After all, monetization was the only purpose of this system. Functionality was never important. Nor was player satisfaction.So, everything is indeed completely fine. After all, correcting any issues players might see would require the system to get reprioritized towards completely different purpose, and we simply can't have that.

You managed to find my sarcasm.

Actually, I think that you and I (based on your response) have it pretty well summed up insofar as ANet is concerned. This implementation is what was planned, approved, designed and put into place. It wasn't a snap decision. There was purpose behind it.

[Juan.6124]

Just reminding everyone that the "templates" still automatically save your changes and that revenant utility skill randomly change locations.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

^ Title

Would be awesome if each equipment tab would save whether you had an outfit on or off, what outfit it was, and differences in transmutation skins.

Example of what I mean:

A Charr uses the same Ranger build in all 6 build templates. He only has 1 berserker gear setup, which he also uses in all 6 tabs of his equipment templates. But due to a new system where each equipment template individually saves outfit settings and transmutation settings, he is able to configure 6 different fashions, with one berserker outfit, so he doesn't have to keep wasting transmutation charges and/or messing with outfit settings manually, each time he wants a change in skins:

• Equip Temp 1 - An Iron Legion themed outfit
• Equip Temp 2 - A Flame Legion themed outfit
• Equip Temp 3 - A Blood Legion themed outfit
• Equip Temp 4 - An Ash Legion themed outfit
• Equip Temp 5 - A Metal Legion themed outfit
• Equip Temp 6 - Some outfit designed to be clownish, ugly, and trollish, for the lulz

Keep in mind, this is all with the same single berserker gear outfit. So essentially the guy has himself configured to rock out different themes at will, on swap.

Just saying, this would be a pretty cool addition to the fashion wars.