How to beat a daredevil as a warrior?

[hammu.1752]

Hello fellow warriors! I'm pretty sure this has been discussed many times before, but i'll ask again: is there a way, even in theory? I'm still pretty new in wvw but i find this infinity dodge stuff unbearable. And if i manage to get a thief to low hp by his own mistakes, he'll just port away and reset the fight. How this kind of broken mechanic can exist or have i misunderstood something essential? Thanks.

[RedShark.9548]

How this is allowed to exist? Im asking myself and friends etc for years, nobody has an answer,but if you ask a thief player in the forums, most say that thief cant do stuff like that, because if he has stuff rdy to run away, he wont be using it to kill the warrior and thus cant kill him....

Which from all my years of experience is not true, but oh well, what do i know.

There is so sure way to kill a thief, but you need lots of burst dmg, and hope that he makes a mistake. I give them that, if they do make mistakes they can die fairly quick, but you rly need to burst them hard.

Try to time your cc in a way that it will land when his dodge ends, hes kinda stuck in that animation.Keep an eye on your debuff bar for blind and weakness, if you go for a cc and he blinds you, you can assume he isnt going to dodge it, so if you remove the blind shortly before your cc land while already in the animation (with shake it off or berserker stance for example)Weakness rly is a pain aswell and if you cant clear it, try to safe your dmg when its gone.A big deal is that if your start a charging skill Like gs5 or bullscharge before a thief stealths, your skill will track the thief even after he entered stealth, and many dont anticipate it. So if he puts down a smoke and you bullschargehim while hes using a leapfinisher (dagger2 for example) you will still knock him down when he doesnt dodge it in stealth, if you hit you will get adrenalin and then you can unload some dmg at that spot, i like to use hundred blades and after 2 or 3 hits just f1 with gs, if he ate the bullscharge and the hits from hundred blades he should be below 50% for the big f1 crits.

Tgief is one of the most frustrating classes to play against, and if he is good on it you wont ever be able to kill him, they can always just reset the fight and run or try again, until make a mistake or all your defenses are on cd, and then they chase you down and throw siege on you :) or whisper you and flame you for trying to run away, when you were about to die.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

If you fight a condi thief, and ur playing strength war, dodging at the same time as them will make your dodge hit, as well as dodge all the aids from their lotus.

Dodge steal. And when they teleport into u with sword 2, just unleash ur burst, they will catch themselves with that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I can confirm the tracking on skills used before they stealth. Works for mesmers as well. Volley works the same way with it's channel. I've killed thieves trying to get into towers that way. If you have a burst up and this situation happens, use it when you see evidence that you hit (might gain for instance). With Volley, if you are a zerker, as soon as you face the thief as they come out of stealth (the tracking resumes as soon as they unstealth) use Gunflame if you are able.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Magebane tether is your new best friend

[hammu.1752]

Thanks all, some good points there.Because of that ridiculous red circle spam, i find big blob zerking less enjoyable than small scale fights, so it would be a shame if ganking perma dodge DDs or perma stealth DEs managed to drain the fun out of roaming too. It's good to hear that there's at least some l2p stuff to do, even thou, from my experience, a good thief can easily win even 3vs1.I've found SB least fitting to my stupid all-out raging play style, and because of my warrior melee philosophy i haven't used ranged stuff a lot, but perhaps it's time to shine the rust off from my rife, or give magebane yet another chance.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Well if you are 'raging' then try Berserker. Arc Divider and Gunflame will kill any thief on a solid crit if they aren't at 100% hp when you do so. Higher risk gameplay style, but you can end the fight the moment they make a mistake without giving them the ability to recover.

[Teratus.2859]

Ports and Stealth are the main reasons I despise those mechanics in any PvP mode.They are cheap mechancis that are far too easy for anyone to abuse with high success.

[hammu.1752]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Well if you are 'raging' then try Berserker. Arc Divider and Gunflame will kill any thief on a solid crit if they aren't at 100% hp when you do so. Higher risk gameplay style, but you can end the fight the moment they make a mistake without giving them the ability to recover.

Ye i have messed around with berserker every now and then. Glassy but fun. Perma evade is still the problem for me thou.

@Teratus.2859 said:Ports and Stealth are the main reasons I despise those mechanics in any PvP mode.They are cheap mechancis that are far too easy for anyone to abuse with high success.

Yes. Tonight i encountered a holosmith couple of times. Equally as frustrating as DD. Hard hits, stealth, then when down in hp, port away, reset the fight and engage me again while my skills still at cd. Such a brilliant design.

[Trianox.3486]

I play both daredevil main, and warrior as my 2nd at the moment.As daredevil, I know what is dangerous for me, and as a warrior how difficult it can sometimes be to beat thieves... But how easy it may also be.Before any hints, I'll just start by saying that I found warrior to be easy to be decent but much harder to really really master. It's actually very similar to thief minus the fact that thief are really squishy if traited to do dmg, but also have some neat escape plans, which counterbalance their squishiness... And in WvW those escape will outshine warrior.That being said, I also realized over the years that warriors being easier to be decent at, means that many players won't actually get to know/master the pieces that would make you go from good to amazing. Anyways...

If you pay Spellbreaker with strengths and discipline:

• Full counter can be dangerous for DD if you activate the block AS the DD launches in the air with either staff vault, dagger/dagger death blossom, or lotus training dodge or the impact dodge. Why? As you see these mechanism, they'll imminently hit you, so they'll trigger your full counter, which you can then use to hit back. Not only he wasted dodges/initiatives, but you got no DMG and stroke him back.

• Magebane tether. Yeah. This is really good.

• Trait for immob on daze. Use bola and dazes. The thief will start hating you and might panic haha.

• Mace, shield: blocks and CC. If you face a power thief, he's likely to be squishy, 1-2 well places CC should do the trick. If you play against condi DD, he likely have bigger HP pool, so you'll need to chain 2-3 CC instead of 1-2, followed by DMG.

• All those dodging/jumping leave the DD very vulnerable on his landing point (as the evade is shorter than the animation). Observe and try to land your hit at the end of the vaults/blossom/power-dodge. Lotus is more trickery to catch off guard because of the animation, but these three others are much easier.

• Discipline with 1 range + 1 melee weapon is also a good combination. 4 sec swap CD is enough for you to swap to a range option as soon as the daredevil dodge/vaulted too far, or is trying to escape. Swap back to melee as soon as he is in melee range.

• The general rule is that, for him to sustain enough initiatives to dodge/dmg AND have a bit of lea-way to escape, he'll need to time his dodge/vault and cannot just spam,which gives you better windows of opportunity. If he spams everything/too fast which leaves a too short window for you to DMG him, just do the same: block/evade/kite. And wait 45 sec, try 1-2 cc and a few attacks quickly, and go back to dodging/evading/blocking/kitting. At the 45 sec mark, he will either miss some initiatives and won't be able to escape you, or you'll force him to burn it and you'll retry the CC as soon as your cooldowns are off.

• Don't worry too much about the "he is resetting the fight" with sword2, shortbow5 or whatever because he is bruning more initiatives. And while he is away, your cooldown are also resetting.

A good thief can 1v3, just the same way a good spellbreaker can 1v3 too. A lot has to do with practice, and the type of opponents. I even won a 1v4 as a daredevil. None were using CCs or immobs.But I also got defeated by a spellbreaker despite teaming up with a guardian, and a ranger. The ranger kept triggering the spellbreaker full counter. It was so annoying. And I think the spellbreaker had adrenal health and might makes right or some nasty sustain. Not completely sure, but the take away was: In 1-1, I could have never bursted through him. And I met a few warriors like that in the last few months. Either they were really easy to melt, or would out-sustain me to a rediculous level.

[Super Hayes.6890]

My answer to the thread title:

"With a stick while it sleeps!"

[Super Hayes.6890]

I personally avoid daredevils while on my warrior. I will try some of the tips posted above though. You got some solid responses on this topic and I intend to bag me a daredevil with them :)

[hammu.1752]

@Trianox.3486Thanks man! I appreciate your effort.

[sauceboss.3254]

Yo, i've played warrior and daredevil a lot in pvp/wvw. I've created a matchup video for this exact scenario.

You can check out both sides this way. Understanding the thief is just as important as know your own abilities with the warrior.

[hammu.1752]

Thank you for another effort.Even thou the vid seemed to be more about pvp, where thieves can't disappear into the distance when low hp, unlike in wvw. Magebane helps there, but i'd like use rather revenge counter because of majority of condi builds.I know, my biggest flaw is the lack of understanding mechanics of other professions, so i've got a lot of study to do here.

Now that i've managed to beat a daredevil couple of times, i might as well chance the tittle of this thread to "how to kill a holosmith."One day i encountered a good one almost ten times and every time he beat me easily. Only times i got him close to death was when i switched to berserk and managed to burst to him good but then he just did the thief thing and ported to the horizon, got to full hp and attacked me again while all my utility skills were still on cd.Sometimes i had 2 or even 3 allies with me and we couldn't take him down. Endless evades, lots of heavy cc, damage and stability plus stealth/ports. No class should be allowed to have all that, from my limited experience.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"hammu.1752" said:Thank you for another effort.Even thou the vid seemed to be more about pvp, where thieves can't disappear into the distance when low hp, unlike in wvw. Magebane helps there, but i'd like use rather revenge counter because of majority of condi builds.I know, my biggest flaw is the lack of understanding mechanics of other professions, so i've got a lot of study to do here.

Now that i've managed to beat a daredevil couple of times, i might as well chance the tittle of this thread to "how to kill a holosmith."One day i encountered a good one almost ten times and every time he beat me easily. Only times i got him close to death was when i switched to berserk and managed to burst to him good but then he just did the thief thing and ported to the horizon, got to full hp and attacked me again while all my utility skills were still on cd.Sometimes i had 2 or even 3 allies with me and we couldn't take him down. Endless evades, lots of heavy cc, damage and stability plus stealth/ports. No class should be allowed to have all that, from my limited experience.

Holo's don't have a port if I remember correctly but yes the spec is overperforming and then some currently.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"hammu.1752" said:Thank you for another effort.Even thou the vid seemed to be more about pvp, where thieves can't disappear into the distance when low hp, unlike in wvw. Magebane helps there, but i'd like use rather revenge counter because of majority of condi builds.I know, my biggest flaw is the lack of understanding mechanics of other professions, so i've got a lot of study to do here.

Now that i've managed to beat a daredevil couple of times, i might as well chance the tittle of this thread to "how to kill a holosmith."One day i encountered a good one almost ten times and every time he beat me easily. Only times i got him close to death was when i switched to berserk and managed to burst to him good but then he just did the thief thing and ported to the horizon, got to full hp and attacked me again while all my utility skills were still on cd.Sometimes i had 2 or even 3 allies with me and we couldn't take him down. Endless evades, lots of heavy cc, damage and stability plus stealth/ports. No class should be allowed to have all that, from my limited experience.

Hard CC followed by burst + whirlwind attack. Use rush or bulls charge next because they will try to stealth and use healing turret to full heal. Rush and bc track them in stealth.

[Ruufio.1496]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"hammu.1752" said:Thank you for another effort.Even thou the vid seemed to be more about pvp, where thieves can't disappear into the distance when low hp, unlike in wvw. Magebane helps there, but i'd like use rather revenge counter because of majority of condi builds.I know, my biggest flaw is the lack of understanding mechanics of other professions, so i've got a lot of study to do here.

Now that i've managed to beat a daredevil couple of times, i might as well chance the tittle of this thread to "how to kill a holosmith."One day i encountered a good one almost ten times and every time he beat me easily. Only times i got him close to death was when i switched to berserk and managed to burst to him good but then he just did the thief thing and ported to the horizon, got to full hp and attacked me again while all my utility skills were still on cd.Sometimes i had 2 or even 3 allies with me and we couldn't take him down. Endless evades, lots of heavy cc, damage and stability plus stealth/ports. No class should be allowed to have all that, from my limited experience.

Hard CC followed by burst + whirlwind attack. Use rush or bulls charge next because they will try to stealth and use healing turret to full heal. Rush and bc track them in stealth.

You'll know an engi is trash if he uses elixir S. That gives the engineer breathing room but it also gives the attacker 3s back of all of his cooldowns as well.

[RedShark.9548]

@Ruufio.1496 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"hammu.1752" said:Thank you for another effort.Even thou the vid seemed to be more about pvp, where thieves can't disappear into the distance when low hp, unlike in wvw. Magebane helps there, but i'd like use rather revenge counter because of majority of condi builds.I know, my biggest flaw is the lack of understanding mechanics of other professions, so i've got a lot of study to do here.

Now that i've managed to beat a daredevil couple of times, i might as well chance the tittle of this thread to "how to kill a holosmith."One day i encountered a good one almost ten times and every time he beat me easily. Only times i got him close to death was when i switched to berserk and managed to burst to him good but then he just did the thief thing and ported to the horizon, got to full hp and attacked me again while all my utility skills were still on cd.Sometimes i had 2 or even 3 allies with me and we couldn't take him down. Endless evades, lots of heavy cc, damage and stability plus stealth/ports. No class should be allowed to have all that, from my limited experience.

Hard CC followed by burst + whirlwind attack. Use rush or bulls charge next because they will try to stealth and use healing turret to full heal. Rush and bc track them in stealth.

You'll know an engi is trash if he uses elixir S. That gives the engineer breathing room but it also gives the attacker 3s back of all of his cooldowns as well.

It also gives him stealth to setup burst tho.

[hammu.1752]

Speaking of stealth and thieves again, yesterday i got hit by a 13,7k vault. Before that, i fought a deadeye who vanished for such a long time i thought he gave up and went away. So i foolishly rode to wait for a daily veteran creature and soon he landed me a 20k malicious backstab immediately followed by a 13k heartseeker. Oh the enjoyment, hoo hoo hoo. I wonder do even thief players think these amounts of dmg are ok to a heavy armor class, while a broken mechanic of invisibility exists.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

A good thread but I'll add, remember that Warrior also has generous access to Weakness.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@hammu.1752 said:Speaking of stealth and thieves again, yesterday i got hit by a 13,7k vault. Before that, i fought a deadeye who vanished for such a long time i thought he gave up and went away. So i foolishly rode to wait for a daily veteran creature and soon he landed me a 20k malicious backstab immediately followed by a 13k heartseeker. Oh the enjoyment, hoo hoo hoo. I wonder do even thief players think these amounts of dmg are ok to a heavy armor class, while a broken mechanic of invisibility exists.

They have high burst cuz their a burst class and stealth cuz that's part of thier defense as they're glass even when built for sustain.U as a warrior with more innate tankyness can choose to run zerk and still have decent sustain and bursts very similar to thief, try it. Did u expect the thief to stay and fight u face to face without using his defensive mechanic against ur warrior? Be a stupid thief if he did lol

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Hannelore.8153 said:A good thread but I'll add, remember that Warrior also has generous access to Weakness.

It does? Hammer #2 call to arms and mace aa?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:A good thread but I'll add, remember that Warrior also has generous access to Weakness.

It does? Hammer #2 call to arms and mace aa?

Traits..? Which are the backbone of any build, really..

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:A good thread but I'll add, remember that Warrior also has generous access to Weakness.

It does? Hammer #2 call to arms and mace aa?

Traits..? Which are the backbone of any build, really..

Why would you take Body Blow over Forceful Greatsword? I mean, if they increased the bleed stacks to something high enough to turn Hammer and Mace into condi weapons then sure... Cull the weak itself only works when the target is below 50% health.