What should we realistically expect?

[LughLongArm.5460]

Pre Hot(during beta weekends) and during the first weeks of Hot there used to be a lot of forum communication with A.net, followed by big balance and even some design changes to the Druid.For PoF it feels like the delivery of the soulbeast was in much more premature state compared to the druid(even during the beta weekends before release) and yet, there is 0 communication with A.net regarding the state of the spec and it's future. What do you think we should expect? The big polish this spec deserves and needs or small patches of several changes/fixes, each balance update like we had over the last year?

[Prophet.1584]

Considering the massive amount of backlash the devs received after HoT and the Druid I don't expect we'll ever have that opportunity again. For HoT it was outright negative, and yet many of those people most likely threw a fit when giving up their Druid for SB. I expect there to be less back and forth communication with Anet. Hopefully the next set of specs will have a power focus or condi will be toned down to some degree so that power builds can get back into the meta.

[Fluffball.8307]

SB is so underwhelming as an elite spec, I don't expect them to go through gigantic design iterations and nerfs like with druid. I haven't seen a single complaint in or out of game about SB being too good at anything other than the rock gazelle. I think it exists solely to give people who wanted a petless ranger something to do.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

Expect nothing aside from bug fixes.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Fluffball.8307 said:SB is so underwhelming as an elite spec, I don't expect them to go through gigantic design iterations and nerfs like with druid. I haven't seen a single complaint in or out of game about SB being too good at anything other than the rock gazelle. I think it exists solely to give people who wanted a petless ranger something to do.

I don't know about it being too good, but I really do like it. It provides good damage bonuses and survivability, even when I don't use beastmode. My only complaint is the lack of a Adept trait for those who don't want to use beastmode, and a Master trait for power damage.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:SB is so underwhelming as an elite spec, I don't expect them to go through gigantic design iterations and nerfs like with druid. I haven't seen a

single

complaint in or out of game about SB being too good at anything other than the rock gazelle. I think it exists solely to give people who wanted a petless ranger something to do.

I don't know about it being too good, but I really do like it. It provides good damage bonuses and survivability, even when I don't use beastmode. My only complaint is the lack of a Adept trait for those who don't want to use beastmode, and a Master trait for power damage.

A SB not using beast mode is like a Druid not using the avatar state, it's something that's so core to the spec that you should just consider using it.

[kharmin.7683]

For me, I could never really get comfortable with avatar in druid (PvE). It just didn't work for me. SB makes more sense to me as a player and so far I'm finding play-time with it.

To the OP, I expect patches/fixes but no real communication as before.

[LughLongArm.5460]

@Prophet.1584 , It's true, but most of the backlash for druid was about design and flavor, in terms of power it was very strong. It took 2 years of nerfs to the point are in now.

@Fluffball.8307 , Ya, at least this time around, we'r not on the community nerf radar.

@"Wondrouswall.7169" With the Soulbeast "bug fixes" will do plenty because there is so much broken stuff. Most of the Soulbeast skills(F1+F2), many of traits and skills not working or semi working while in Soulbeast etc...

@kharmin.7683 I hope the first patch will be significant, and not like the patch we got with PoF release.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Fluffball.8307 said:SB is so underwhelming as an elite spec, I don't expect them to go through gigantic design iterations and nerfs like with druid. I haven't seen a single complaint in or out of game about SB being too good at anything other than the rock gazelle. I think it exists solely to give people who wanted a petless ranger something to do.

Pretty much this. Other than the Rock Gazelle which is only OP against downed players from what i have experienced , Soulbeast doesnt stand out as being Overpowered, it doesnt stand out as hugely underpowered but it does need tuning. It is lacking in some areas but not enough for the majority of players to really care. Would be good to get some QoL changes and some tweaks to the traits. But nothing really stands out creaming "nerf the hell out of me" like it does with Firebrand and such at the moment

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:SB is so underwhelming as an elite spec, I don't expect them to go through gigantic design iterations and nerfs like with druid. I haven't seen a

single

complaint in or out of game about SB being too good at anything other than the rock gazelle. I think it exists solely to give people who wanted a petless ranger something to do.

I don't know about it being too good, but I really do like it. It provides good damage bonuses and survivability, even when I don't use beastmode. My only complaint is the lack of a Adept trait for those who don't want to use beastmode, and a Master trait for power damage.

A SB not using beast mode is like a Druid not using the avatar state, it's something that's so core to the spec that you should just consider using it

It's not really the be-all end-all, though. There are plenty of times and situations where having the pet would be more beneficial than having the additional stats, especially with our crappy power coefficients.

Yes, one could simply play core Ranger, then; but the Soulbeast traits are very good, for the most part.

I'm still camping beastmode, anyways. 'Cause BEASTMASTERY, YEAH!

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:I'm still camping beastmode, anyways. 'Cause BEASTMASTERY, YEAH!

and losing out on like 30% of potential damage. The pathetic stat buff you get and few decent Soul Beast skills dont make up for that. Beastmode without a doubt needs some love and attention.

[psizone.8437]

I expect them to allow pet swap in beastmode or remove the cooldown on re-merging. It's desperately needed and it's been asked for enough times for it to be on their radar.

Dagger should get a buff to condition application and/or an evade on Dagger 3.

I'll be sorely disappointed if they don't tweak some of (most of) the merged skills as they're a little lackluster and they really should rework a fair few of the traits.

[Sedlina.1097]

They needed the druid as their raid healer. Don't get your hopes up for the soulbeast to get a similar treatment

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:I'm still camping beastmode, anyways. 'Cause BEASTMASTERY, YEAH!

and losing out on like 30% of potential damage. The pathetic stat buff you get and few decent Soul Beast skills dont make up for that. Beastmode without a doubt needs some love and attention.

30% of potential damage from what, the pet? The pet hasn't been 30% of a Ranger's damage in a long time. This is, of course, assuming the Ranger is attempting to maximise her damage. In which case, I would argue the stat buffs actually help more than the pet.

Running Beastmastery and a Deadly pet, Beastmode gives +280 Power, +80 Precision, +250 Ferocity, +10% Damage ^ 90% HP, and either +5% Damage or +250 Ferocity. You also have a somewhat-limited ability to stack Might, and a Regeneration effect.

Obviously, in PvE, buffs are only ever a good thing, but I don't believe camping Beastmode to be worse than having the pet out.

[Levetty.1279]

I don't think it gives the +10% Damage ^ 90% HP

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

It will continue with soulbeast similary to druid. Anet will fix minor problems with guardian and elementalist, buffing warrior to another one-man-army state and after that they will fix some major ranger bugs like wrong tool tips.

For real: there will be no changing of class mechanic. The half of the druid skills are useless (3 in avatar form, 2 of staff and some glyphs). The druid avatar form is absolutly clunky and its resource is just unfair (short duration, increasing just with heal builds, starting avatar just with full resource and losing 1/4 resource for leaving avatar form) ... and nothing real was changed except some healing coefficient, that you've to play a druid with max healing power attributes.

Soulbeast will not have pet change in beastmode, most pets will stay in a useless state, dagger will not become a pure condi or pure power weapon and losing beastmode by mounting or swiming will be a problem all the time. The only think they will fix asap is the cool damage boost and other strong synergies with sic'em and beastmaster traits and for that we will get a duration increase of griffon stance -.-

[Hawken.7932]

I'm having so much damn fun with soulbeast as it is now, and there has been a huge amount of positive response to the class as it has been implemented, so the parallel to the initial HoT release of druid just isn't there, imho. Pet swap in beast mode isn't necessary (and doesn't make ANY sense from the point of view of the fantasy of what's going on), though I'd love to see a cooldown reduction on re-merge. That's not critical, but just would improve the flow. The only real sad part of how things are was that once again, we're pushed into condi- builds. The dream of power soulbeast is still just a dream.

If you're running a condi build (like the quantify meta build, for example: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/ranger/condi-soulbeast/) and still complaining about dps, you're absolutely doing it wrong.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Prophet.1584 said:Considering the massive amount of backlash the devs received after HoT and the Druid I don't expect we'll ever have that opportunity again. For HoT it was outright negative, and yet many of those people most likely threw a fit when giving up their Druid for SB. I expect there to be less back and forth communication with Anet. Hopefully the next set of specs will have a power focus or condi will be toned down to some degree so that power builds can get back into the meta.

The next will be probably power spec. But i also think that soulbeast has way bettwr interaction with core ranger and could be played with hybrid gear. I wished that grieving gear would be better accesible.In some weeks there will be a major update. Hope they fix all the bugs and improve on the traits and stances and most of us will be happy with Sbeast.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:Running Beastmastery and a Deadly pet, Beastmode gives +280 Power, +80 Precision, +250 Ferocity, +10% Damage ^ 90% HP, and either +5% Damage or +250 Ferocity. You also have a somewhat-limited ability to stack Might, and a Regeneration effect.

Curious, how do you get all of that? Dont you mean Ferocious as the deadly one gives Condition damage? Now, lets take out all the other traits from other lines. So you lose the regeneration effect right away, you also then get even less stats from merging. Losing the damage modifiers as well. In my opinion, You shouldnt be NEEDING to take over trait lines to make Beastmode passable and thats all it is, even with the taken traits. Others get traits that improve theirs sure, but theirs would still be useful and good without taking specific traits. Like Deadeye would still be doing insane damage, Spellbreakers and Firebrands would still be very strong. Beastmode however goes from useless to passable.

While Beastmode is fun, it does need work. Just giving minor stats isnt enough, maybe something like having the different pet types give a chance of a different effect when you are in Beastmode:

Deadly: Chance to inflict a random damaging condition on hit, 33% chanceFerocious: Chance for your hits to deal increased damage, 25% increased damage. 25% chanceSupportive: Chance to steal health and deal damage on stroke, 33% chanceVersatile: Chance to steal a boon on strike, 25% chance

I am sure they would need tweaks and likely ICDs but something like this would be rather welcome as a starting point, The F abilities could do with tweaks, especially the Supportive ones as i just feel the cast time and cool down of it is just a little too long, yeah its nice healing but 40second cool down and the long cast time makes it easy to interrupt and removes the reactive gameplay

[Skuzz.6580]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:I'm still camping beastmode, anyways. 'Cause BEASTMASTERY, YEAH!

and losing out on like 30% of potential damage. The pathetic stat buff you get and few decent Soul Beast skills dont make up for that. Beastmode without a doubt needs some love and attention.

30% of potential damage from what, the pet? The pet hasn't been 30% of a Ranger's damage in a long time. This is, of course, assuming the Ranger is attempting to maximise her damage. In which case, I would argue the stat buffs actually help more than the pet.

Running Beastmastery and a Deadly pet, Beastmode gives +280 Power, +80 Precision, +250 Ferocity, +10% Damage ^ 90% HP, and either +5% Damage or +250 Ferocity. You also have a somewhat-limited ability to stack Might, and a Regeneration effect.

Obviously, in PvE, buffs are only ever a good thing, but I don't believe camping Beastmode to be worse than having the pet out.

• Loud Whistle does not affect the player while in beastmode
• pet's Prowess only gives +150 ferocity to the player when in beastmode
• Actually the only thing Beastmaster gives is +80 all stats when merged, +30% movement speed (which is trivial since you have mounts) and a small heal every 3 seconds. The +250 ferocity from Honed Axe's is rarely active because most builds don't even use axes.
• Both Marksmanship and Skirmishing will give more overall damage than Beastmastery.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Skuzz.6580 said:

Obviously, in PvE, buffs are only ever a good thing, but I don't believe camping Beastmode to be worse than having the pet out.

• Loud Whistle does not affect the player while in beastmode
• pet's Prowess only gives +150 ferocity to the player when in beastmode
• Actually the only thing Beastmaster gives is +80 all stats when merged,
  +30% movement speed
  (which is trivial since you have mounts) and a small heal every 3 seconds. The +250 ferocity from Honed Axe's is rarely active because most builds don't even use axes.
• Both Marksmanship and Skirmishing will give more overall damage than Beastmastery.

Itsn't the mobility from another trait in another line, so technically beastmode/Soul beast doesnt even give that

[Ackzar.9156]

I think some are forgetting some major differences between HoT and PoF release. First off HoT was the first expansion ArenaNet made, and I'm sure they were probably a bit more nervous about how the community would react to the new specs. With PoF now, they've learned, and I think they're more confident about their product. Secondly, and most importantly; For HoT we had beta-weekends. Meaning we were allowed as beta testers, and Anet WANTED feedback. We played, knowing this probably WOULDN'T be the end product we would play at release day. And that was what Anet wanted, they wanted feedback so they could adjust the elite specs. I know parts of the ranger community was speculating that the Druid was the least polished elite spec by the time we got to try in the beta. And if that's correct, then it also makes a lot of sense that the devs would listen more to the community, seeing as it wasn't a finished product, hence they had a lot more room to make adjustments. Skip ahead two years, and we got PoF. Now, for PoF we didn't get beta access. What we got were test weekend, and stress tests. Now see, there's a huge difference between a BETA and a TEST. Although it felt similar for the players, the reasoning and intent behind them are vastly different. For a beta you are displaying a not yet finished product that you want feedback on, so you can make adjustments. For a test weekend, you're basically saying "ok, here is what you will get at launch, but we will let you play early to get you hyped". For the test weekend, they were already done with the specs. They weren't looking for feedback and adjustments for the specs the same way they were with HoT. They just let us try PoF a couple weeks early to get us hyped up...

[OGDeadHead.8326]

@Skuzz.6580 said:The +250 ferocity from Honed Axe's is rarely active because most builds don't even use axes.

I use axes, but I'm a bit odd I guess! ;) Running WS, BM and SB, I for sure would love to replace one traitline with skirmishing for Vicious Quarry, but I always come back to these. Maybe next expansion will open up for 4 traitlines to be active, that would be fun :)

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:Running Beastmastery and a Deadly pet, Beastmode gives +280 Power, +80 Precision, +250 Ferocity, +10% Damage ^ 90% HP, and either +5% Damage or +250 Ferocity. You also have a somewhat-limited ability to stack Might, and a Regeneration effect.

Curious, how do you get all of that? Dont you mean Ferocious as the deadly one gives Condition damage? Now, lets take out all the other traits from other lines. So you lose the regeneration effect right away, you also then get even less stats from merging. Losing the damage modifiers as well. In my opinion, You shouldnt be NEEDING to take over trait lines to make Beastmode passable and thats all it is, even with the taken traits. Others get traits that improve theirs sure, but theirs would still be useful and good without taking specific traits. Like Deadeye would still be doing insane damage, Spellbreakers and Firebrands would still be very strong. Beastmode however goes from useless to passable.

Ah, yes. Ferocious, not Deadly. However, every modifier and stat bonus I listed is from Beastmastery. Some are mutually exclusive, so I will clarify.

Pet Buff:Ferocious: +200 Power, +100 FerocityAdept:Pack Alpha: +80 Power, +80 Precision, +80 Toughness, +80 VitalityPotent Ally: Gain Might on critical hits.Master:Loud Whistle: Deal +10% Damage while health is above 90%.Two-handed Training::+5% Damage with Greatsword --or-- Natural Healing: Gain Health every 3 seconds.Grandmaster:Pet's Prowess: +150 Ferocity, +25% Movement SpeedHoned Axes: +250 Ferocity with main- or off-hand Axe.

@Skuzz.6580 said:

• Loud Whistle does not affect the player while in beastmode

Edit: After testing, I can confirm Loud Whistle doesn't work.

@Skuzz.6580 said:

• Actually the only thing Beastmaster gives is +80 all stats when merged, +30% movement speed (which is trivial since you have mounts) and a small heal every 3 seconds. The +250 ferocity from Honed Axe's is rarely active because most builds don't even use axes.
• Both Marksmanship and Skirmishing will give more overall damage than Beastmastery.

I don't set the meta builds, but I personally use Sword/Axe for my melee set. Given the fact that Greatsword or Sword/Axe are the available power weapons, in PvE at least, I argue Axes are used more than just 'rarely.' I also run the damage modifiers in Marksmanship with 80% Critical Chance (60% Base + Fury)

On Topic!

I will not say 'no' to ANet buffing Beastmode or Soulbeast traits, and fixing bugged skills so they work properly is always a good thing. ArmageddonAsh's suggestions do look interesting to me. However, I think a small refinement of buffs gained from the specific pets and an adjustment of skill coefficients is more than enough for power builds. Say, an additional +40/+20 to stats and an increase of 0.1/0.2 to Power modifiers. Condition builds are perfectly fine.

My point is that Soulbeast and Beastmode have the potential to give us quite a lot. Realistically, you have to look at the whole picture when changing something like Beastmode. That is why I listed what you're capable of getting from Beastmastery.

[Levetty.1279]

I do actually expect a return to the early Ranger patch notes of nothing but tooltip corrections. Nothing about Soulbeast stands out as overpowered in any mode and it has a Raid DPS build so not expecting any tweaks but there are a lot of traits that don't mention their interaction with beastmode.