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[merged] Legendary Gear and Templates


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@Setz.9675 said:It was completely right to introduce shared inventory slots and it's completely right to introduce equipment and build storages. Both of these features are tremendous QoL improvements. What needs to happen now is to make the latter reach their fullest potential and that isn't going to happen when a minority within a minority needs to be taken into account for.Clearly the right action is not to get people to delete their hard worked legendaries. Being a dick to non-casual players who put in that time is what's going to kill the game further and this is evidenced by the decline of the quality of players in various game modes. Dumbing it down for casuals and angering people is just not the right way to do things in the grand scheme of QoL. That said build storage most certainly does not need to be account bound in this way, but rather the gear storage settings need to be so that when you swap gear between characters you don't have to reapply the stats for that character. It much easier to do it that way too without alienating a percentage of the playerbase (of which you specifically don't know the numbers). Let's not forget about the impact to the economy if there's nothing worth crafting if only for the skins. People not spending to create more will no longer contribute to it and that's not good for it in the long run.

I'm also glad people like you aren't making decisions by picking the lowest common denominator without taking into account the sacrifices the upper bound will take for some QoL. Putting limits on something that was previously unlimited is just a bad idea.

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@cgMatt.5162 said:

@Setz.9675 said:It was completely right to introduce shared inventory slots and it's completely right to introduce equipment and build storages. Both of these features are tremendous QoL improvements. What needs to happen now is to make the latter reach their fullest potential and that isn't going to happen when a minority within a minority needs to be taken into account for.Clearly the right action is not to get people to delete their hard worked legendaries. Being a kitten to non-casual players who put in that time is what's going to kill the game further and this is evidenced by the decline of the quality of players in various game modes.This decline is caused by a lack of content updates in their respective gamemodes and a lack of perceived future for the game (expansions), it has nothing to do with the amount of QoL being introduced, don't draw false conclusions just to further your own agenda, at this point anyone who followed this back and forth between us can see how manipulative you are. No one who made legendary armor is going to delete even a single piece in any kind of environment, ever. This is a complete and utter fantasy scenario on your side.Dumbing it down for casuals and angering people is just not the right way to do things in the grand scheme of QoL.Removing excessive equipping/unequipping and dragging gear around is in your words the equivalent of dumbing things down for casuals and not at all a QoL? Remove the entirety of equipment and build templates and travel through time to change the decision to allow arc templates while you are at it, since in your own words templates are just dumbing things down for casuals and angering the dedicated players.That said build storage most certainly does not need to be account bound in this way, but rather the gear storage settings need to be so that when you swap gear between characters you don't have to reapply the stats for that character.We already have an account bound build storage. If it is equipment storage you mean that doesn't have to be account bound I could agree but I definetely won't. Making it account bound would be the greatest QoL improvement this game has gotten since shared inventory slots and even triumphs over mounts. Also here is a fun thing to think about: How many legendary stats should 1 equipment storage remember? for example we take warrior trying to roam in arah: sword leap-->warhorn swiftness --> GS 3, 5 -> hammer f1 --> shield 4, all of this in berserker, but now equipment storage 2 is opened and all of this needs to be in marauder, lets swap to berserker or spellbreaker and add some daggers/torch warhorn and axes in that mix too. Im sure you have the qualifications to call out how easy this will be to fix.It much easier to do it that way too without alienating a percentage of the playerbase (of which you specifically don't know the numbers).You aren't qualified to say what is and isn't easyer to create. Also wet finger works here: most ''dedicated'' players use gw2efficiency, on gw2effiency less than 0,5% of this ''dedicated'' playerbase has more than 18 legendary armor items. There are more casuals than dedicated players so even less than 0,5% of the playerbase would be 'alienated'. That 0,5% of playerbase is also not a hivemind, some would welcome account wide equipment storages and some wont and some wont care one way or another. So for less than 0,5% of the playerbase you want to decline an account armory because you drew an arbitrary line between: removing clicks to swap builds/gear on character = good, removing clicks to swap gear between characters = bad.Let's not forget about the impact to the economy if there's nothing worth crafting if only for the skins. People not spending to create more will no longer contribute to it and that's not good for it in the long run.You don't have the capacity to predict how this would impact the economy, for example: if equipment storage becomes account bound I would make 3 legendary sets for my alt account which I won't in the current system. Also I won't make more than the 4 legendary sets I have on my main account regardless of account wide storage or not.

I'm also glad people like you aren't making decisions by picking the lowest common denominator without taking into account the sacrifices the upper bound will take for some QoL. Putting limits on something that was previously unlimited is just a bad idea.Sure lets throw in some ''lowest common denominator'' and ''sacrifices the upper bound will take'' even when it doesn't apply, maybe some gullible people will fall for your tropes. QoL =/= lowest common denominator and bad investments =/= sacrifices the upper bound will take, give up already dude.

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@Setz.9675 said:No one who made legendary armor is going to delete even a single piece in any kind of environment, ever. This is a complete and utter fantasy scenario on your side.They will if they make the changes you're suggesting. This even means 2-4 of any one handed weapon type and 1-2 of any two handed weapon types that you will ever have to craft. Is that end game enough?

@Setz.9675 said:You aren't qualified to say what is and isn't easyer to create. Also wet finger works here: most ''dedicated'' players use gw2efficiency, on gw2effiency less than 0,5% of this ''dedicated'' playerbase has more than 18 legendary armor items. There are more casuals than dedicated players so even less than 0,5% of the playerbase would be 'alienated'.For perspective that number is over a thousand players and thousands pieces of legendary armor, not counting weapons.

I do not think this is worth arguing further, and I'm not even arguing about the convenience of quick swap between characters but the impact it has to players who made more. I can see that this is no longer a healthy discussion because of the tones and accusations being thrown around, and we should just give others an opportunity to give their feedback. I only meant to point out the flaws such a QoL would have and the response is basically "I don't care, make the change".

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@cgMatt.5162 said:

@Setz.9675 said:No one who made legendary armor is going to delete even a single piece in any kind of environment, ever. This is a complete and utter fantasy scenario on your side.They will if they make the changes you're suggesting. This even means 2-4 of any one handed weapon type and 1-2 of any two handed weapon types that you will ever have to craft. Is that end game enough?According to gw2efficiency only 16 people own more legendary weapons than there are skins. Dualwielding legendary 1 handed weapons is still a thing and unlocking skins is also a thing. A legendary armor piece goes for 300g while legendary weapons are between 1000g and 2300g, beside those 16 players NO ONE in this playerbase is making legendary weapons for the stat changing option. Is this end game enough? Not doing something because <0,001% of the playerbase did a thing?

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GW2 efficiency only counts those who are registered to it. I for one primarily make lege's for the stat-swap function, and i have more lege weaps than i do armour, but that's cos i'm still on my first set of armour, whereupon i will have the same number of lege weaps and armour.

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Look, I'm really not sold on the utilitarianism of that solution because people should not have to give up their hard worked armor for the greater QoL. I'll tell you what, if they give us a vendor or a salvage tool that let's us get all of those individual materials back (down to the materials and account bound currency), then I would gladly agree with it. We would at least be able to put mats and precursors back into circulation and no one would have to delete anything.

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@cgMatt.5162 said:Look, I'm really not sold on the utilitarianism of that solution because people should not have to give up their hard worked armor for the greater QoL. I'll tell you what, if they give us a vendor or a salvage tool that let's us get all of those individual materials back (down to the materials and account bound currency), then I would gladly agree with it. We would at least be able to put mats and precursors back into circulation and no one would have to delete anything.

thats actually reasonable, imo legendarys should be salvageable to return the fortune gift but lose the other items like map completion gift and precursor.

@Ragi.7291 said:Could we at least fix the problem of infusions that disappear on the legendary armors. plsI lost one again, two days ago it's really really tiring.

What is the sequence of actions to losing an infusion if there is any or it just happens randomly? Like equip/unequip/drag/moving armor etc, asking for science.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Tell me what issue"s" does exactly the system has? I'm using it fine with the only issue being that if I want to put my legendary armor sets on another class of the same weight, I have to trash the current templates of equipment I have made.

People have such a high demand from a F2P game that only lives from microtransactions.

I feel like I'm trapped in a
whenever I read comments like these. ;) Please take the time to delve into the system fully and you will discover its flaws.

In any case, we don't have "high demands". On the contrary:
  1. Our
    only
    demand is for things to work properly without screwing anything up (
    regardless
    of the system's immense limitation with its 6-slots limit or the pricing).
  2. GW1 itself, as well as a free GW2 3rd party tool, used to do everything perfectly, the way people who actually have use of templates needed it to work. Both systems were
    much simpler
    in their functionality, yet
    more efficient
    . Asking for something "simpler" is the exact opposite of "having high demands", no?

Think like a business as well as what you have currently.

You know that the people in charge would (usually) do the best if they could, they are paid for it. Or even better if you could be paid to make it better you should be the one applying for said situation. There's clearly only so much that can be done but we are stuck arguing about the possibilities when it's right there in front of you that nothing is going to change.

It's evident that free is only gonna go so far.

Also it seems to go right above everyone's mind that they are trying to keep a margin of profit over their revenue by giving people features that they want but not in excess, anyway behold the complains are still there and we want everything for free and permanently with even less motives to give a dying label a reason to move on.

People took the third party tool for granted and that's where it stops for me. The current templates has only a few flaws outside the whole contreversial paywall that is always surprising to people but no different than the rest of features that you'd have to pay for including character slots effectively giving you more per gem in the end. (Yeah, real humans work there for you!)

It's also evident that the equipment sharing is driven by the idea of keeping the economy going, I could understand if they didn't do it for Ascended but they should given it's account bound, for Legendary gear it's completely whack because they are advertised and feature as the "never struggle with you armor again" kind of mentality AND the system goes against by forcing template destruction which is my complete non sense from any point but resource that don't really make players want to spend more real cash, just time.

If it had to be this way even for legendary armor, there's clearly a need for resource reduction they want to achieve. Because those people who are going to swap that legendary gear will be spending transmutation charges in which depending what kind of player you are, those are also sometimes bought on the gemstore by others, so it keeps one sort of revenue regardless unlike having people with 6 other sets that will rarely ever change. This could apply to ascended though, since some people just roll Berserker gear on everything.

Thinking like a business is needed at times because it helps one understand all the ways they are trying to milk our accounts dry. Recognizing them is one thing but actually supporting them when I'm a consumer, would be nonsensical as it would be opposite to my interests.

I don't really get this "urban myth" of a free game. This game had a box price for its core and its expansions. On top of that, it's a proven fact that its main revenue stream ( microtransactions), has been the most profitable model in the history of gaming business. Even the minority of late comers who got core for free and never upgraded or spent a dime on the store are helping the model work with their engagement in the MMO. Presenting Anet to be a poor studio, struggling to keep the lights on, is a poor attempt to justify questionable decisions.

There are no "free" games period. I would have thought the insane profits of the mostly "free" mobile market would have been a hint.

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I was nowhere near as negative about build templates compared to the rest of the community. They needed some work but that was it mostly.

Then I tried swapping my legendary gear into an alt to do some map completion for a legendary weapon.

Wowzors what a headache it ended up as. My carefully crafted equipment templates gone, my inventory a mess, having to redo all the sigils and runes and infusions.

Templates really need manual save and reload so that you can just reload and snap your templates back into place when you want to do stuff like this.

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I completely disagree with you Setz on the materials front. You want to strip my world completion, the thousands of mithril and elder wood i needed to make the precursors? The hours, days and weeks of effort it took to make those lege's? I doubt that would be a popular move. Give us everything back, down to each glob of ecto, obsidian shard, t2 claw etc. All they need to do is make the templates actual templates (re: definition of the word) and let us share our endgame gear across all chars in our acct who can use it.

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@Funky.4861 said:I completely disagree with you Setz on the materials front. You want to strip my world completion, the thousands of mithril and elder wood i needed to make the precursors? The hours, days and weeks of effort it took to make those lege's? I doubt that would be a popular move. Give us everything back, down to each glob of ecto, obsidian shard, t2 claw etc. All they need to do is make the templates actual templates (re: definition of the word) and let us share our endgame gear across all chars in our acct who can use it.

What the actual duck are you talking about? You aren't forced to salvage a legendary if the option becomes available. Secondly unlocking a legendary skin and salvaging the legendary to get all your money back? what kind of clown fiesta is that? I dont even want to go into all the faults a salvage system like that has.

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@Setz.9675 said:

@cgMatt.5162 said:Look, I'm really not sold on the utilitarianism of that solution because people should not have to give up their hard worked armor for the greater QoL. I'll tell you what, if they give us a vendor or a salvage tool that let's us get all of those individual materials back (down to the materials and account bound currency), then I would gladly agree with it. We would at least be able to put mats and precursors back into circulation and no one would have to delete anything.

thats actually reasonable, imo legendarys should be salvageable to return the fortune gift but lose the other items like map completion gift and precursor.>

This right here is the issue. If we're given the option to deconstruct our legendaries for whatever reason, we should get back EVERYTHING IT TOOK to make them (apart from our time ofc :p) otherwise we're being ripped-off. As to unlocking the skin- you do know that only gen 1 lege's are tradeable, and if i spent the gold to buy one from the TP you're crazy to think that i'd not want that gold back- there's nothing you can do with an acct-bound skin; it has zero value.

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Theres is absolutely no reason in making a legendary gear if everyone can just build cheap second/third/... ascended equips.I feel completely trolled by the devs ,after all the time, gold and effort i wasted in this crap. If it would be at least 5% better than ascend. gear, like Asc is to exotic....it would actually give people a reason to make legy gear and give people give Leg. Gear a reason to NOT quit the game

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I swear to god I'm losing a sigil a week because of equip/unequip issues on legendaries. I can't put my finger on it but I've gone from five sigils of [Correction: Force] in bank to three because one detaches into oblivion. Surely it's just me. I must be doing something wrong.

I guess to expand, I roleplay, meaning sometimes equipment has to un-equip into regular inventory because I can't hide it otherwise. When I re-equip, things that overlap in other slots will pop off, like +9 AR baubles and an occasional sigil. I have to re-add it.

[Editing again - now that I've equipped a hammer with a sigil of force on it, a second sigil of force has appeared in my inventory, seeming to have come out of nowhere.]

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@Kate Soulguard.7132 said:I swear to god I'm losing a sigil a week because of equip/unequip issues on legendaries. I can't put my finger on it but I've gone from five sigils of [Correction: Force] in bank to three because one detaches into oblivion. Surely it's just me. I must be doing something wrong.

I guess to expand, I roleplay, meaning sometimes equipment has to un-equip into regular inventory because I can't hide it otherwise. When I re-equip, things that overlap in other slots will pop off, like +9 AR baubles and an occasional sigil. I have to re-add it.

[Editing again - now that I've equipped a hammer with a sigil of force on it, a second sigil of force has appeared in my inventory, seeming to have come out of nowhere.]

If your sigil is on your legendary great sword in equipment 1 and off hand shield in equipment 2 you wont get it back wen you remove either greatsword or shield, since its still in use in other templates.

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@Kate Soulguard.7132 said:I swear to god I'm losing a sigil a week because of equip/unequip issues on legendaries.

You are not losing anything. The sigil is equipped on additional items in other loadouts, hence it is being unlinked from any weapon you unequip. Upgrades on legendaries are being used in several loadouts at the same time, hence you require less of them. It is part of the problem of how inconveniently the unequipping of legendary gear is being handled. I'd rather have upgrades work the way they used to before than have to redo a weapon's stats and upgrades each time I unequip it. Highly annoying, no idea what genius came up with that inconvenient concept.

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@Funky.4861 said:

@cgMatt.5162 said:Look, I'm really not sold on the utilitarianism of that solution because people should not have to give up their hard worked armor for the greater QoL. I'll tell you what, if they give us a vendor or a salvage tool that let's us get all of those individual materials back (down to the materials and account bound currency), then I would gladly agree with it. We would at least be able to put mats and precursors back into circulation and no one would have to delete anything.

thats actually reasonable, imo legendarys should be salvageable to return the fortune gift but lose the other items like map completion gift and precursor.>

This right here is the issue. If we're given the option to deconstruct our legendaries for whatever reason, we should get back EVERYTHING IT TOOK to make them (apart from our time ofc :p) otherwise we're being ripped-off. As to unlocking the skin- you do know that only gen 1 lege's are tradeable, and if i spent the gold to buy one from the TP you're crazy to think that i'd not want that gold back- there's nothing you can do with an acct-bound skin; it has zero value.

The problem however is that you are completely wrong frendo, because legendary weapons serve 2 purposes: one is to make players look swank as heck while the other purpose is being a gigantic material sink. Allowing players to gain amazing skins and then give them back the materials it required to make those skins would devalue every material beside the account bound materials to poverty value.

But lets leave legendary salvaging for another thread instead of derailing this one. It only came up as an idea in the unlikely event that account wide equipment templates would be introduced (which absolutely should happen).

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Okay y'all, I've found out that I'm not losing it, but there is a bug somewhere. Here are the steps to reproduce using Agony Infusions as an example.

TL;DR: Apparent bugs are at steps 4 and 10.

Requirements:1 Legendary Greatsword (LGS)1 Legendary Staff (LS)4 Unique Sigils4 identical +9 Infusions

Given:No equipment templates have assigned weapons.LGS and LS are in inventory, have two sigils applied, and have two +9 infusions applied.AR for Template 1 is 132.AR for Template 2 is 72.

1) Equip LGS in Template 1 Primary.Observe that AR for Template 1 jumps to 150 (132+18)

2) Equip LS in Template 2 Primary.Observe that AR jumps to 90 (72+18)Two +9 infusions return to inventory.Both the LGS and the LS show two +9 infusions because they're shared, right?

3) Un-equip LGS from Template 1.Observe that the LGS now has no +9 infusions.AR for Template 1 reduces to 132.

4) Re-equip LGS from Template 1.Observe that the LGS still doesn't have +9 infusionsAR is still at 132. Those two infusions on the LS are not shared with the LGS back in Template 1.------------------>That seems like a bug, but that's not the one I'm showcasing.

5) Add the two UNLINKED +9 infusions to the GS while equipped in Template 1.Observe with each apply that the number of unlinked infusions doesn't change.With each apply, the number of linked infusions DECREASES by 1.Observe that AR for Template 1 is restored to 150.

6) Get confused by this and apply an UNLINKED +9 infusion to the top slot of the LS in Template 2.Observe that inventory Infusions goes down to 1.Linked infusions goes up to 1.

7) Apply the last UNLINKED +9 infusion to the bottom slot of the LS in Template 2.8) Unequip LGS9) Unequip LS10) You will end up with:1 LGS in inventory, no infusions.1 LS in inventory, 2 infusions1 +9 Infusion in inventory1 missing +9 infusion that shows as allocated in the template views, but NO WEAPONS IN ANY TEMPLATE.------------------>Is this working as intended? It really feels like a bug to me.

To correct the defect:11) Equip the LGS and LS in slots 1 and 2 of Template 1.The missing +9 infusion will drop back out into inventory.

I'm going to conduct the same experiment with a shared sigil here shortly, and I bet a nickel we see the same allocation issue.

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Another Legendary Weapon equipment template bug.

TL;DR: By step 3 you will observe that accuracy is not properly shared between templates.

In my scenario I have...1 Legendary Greatsword (LGS, zerker); Sup. Sigil of Force; Sup. Sigil of Accuracy1 Legendary Longbow (LLB, zerker); Sup. Sigil of Force; Sup. Sigil of AccuracyNo weapons equipped in any template.Template 1 Critical Chance = 42.19%Template 2 Critical Chance = 27.19%

1) Equip LGS in Template 1 Main-handCrit goes to 57.71%

2) Equip LLB in Template 2 Main-hand.Crit goes to 42.71%One Force sigil falls out into inventory.One Accuracy sigil falls out into inventory.

3) Un-equip LGS in Template 1 Main.4) Re-equip LGS in Template 1 Main.Crit goes to 50.71%---------->Critical chance from Template 2 Main-hand sigil is not shared back to Template 1.I would be willing to bet that +damage from Force isn't shared either.

4) Apply Force and Accuracy to LGS in Template 1Both sigils now appear both as Template-linked and unlinked, which is an anomaly.Accuracy becomes correct at 57.71%

Someone please tell me I'm wrong, but this really doesn't seem to be WAI.

Oh! One more thing - once you un-equip your LGS, if you re-equip sigils and AR, THEN re-equip, the numbers appear to be correct even though the sigils are stripped out on equip.

If this is all confusing or cumbersome, it's better to get the Legendary to unlock the skin and then use Ascended as your actual gear so you don't have to worry about this silly "un-slotting" shared feature. IMO they really need to turn off this rule. As soon as you equip a legendary, its slotted parts pop out, and then when you un-equip it, you have to re-apply the slotted stuff. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense if it's supposed to be a real feature.

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@"Kate Soulguard.7132" said:Another Legendary Weapon equipment template bug.

[...]

---------->Critical chance from Template 2 Main-hand sigil is not shared back to Template 1.I would be willing to bet that +damage from Force isn't shared either.

4) Apply Force and Accuracy to LGS in Template 1Both sigils now appear both as Template-linked and unlinked, which is an anomaly.Accuracy becomes correct at 57.71%

Someone please tell me I'm wrong, but this really doesn't seem to be WAI.

Oh! One more thing - once you un-equip your LGS, if you re-equip sigils and AR, THEN re-equip, the numbers appear to be correct even though the sigils are stripped out on equip.

You only require one of each here for both weapons: 1 Sigil of Force and 1 Sigil of Accuracy. You then remove the extra pair of sigils from your character (to avoid confusion), then equip both legendary weapons in the two loadouts mentioned, then assign their stats and upgrades. While this is a major hassle, it is a fact that both weapons, while placed in different loadouts, will make use of the exact same sigils, which is why you don't need the extra pair. If both weapons are used in the same loadout, however, you will require an extra pair of sigils.

If you unequip either of the two weapons from all loadouts, while its upgrades are still being used on another legendary weapon in one of the loadouts, it will not eject the upgrades but will be unequipped in a "blank" state.

That's why this system is major nonsense and the exact opposite of a (presumably intended) QoL feature. It just complicates things unnecessarily and has you check and double-check all loadouts as well as your inventory in search for the upgrades on each change of weaponry (not to mention that you have to redo everything from scratch each time you re-equip an item).

´P.S. I, for one, am not going to spend any money on additional loadouts as long as the legendary situation has not been fixed to work user-friendly like it used to before the templates system was released.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:[...] then [...] then [...] then

breathes into a brown paper bag for a few minutes

Hi Ashantara,

Thank you so much for explaining! I really appreciate you taking the time to do so.

.

Is this part is still a bug? I think at least this is still a bug...

1 missing +9 infusion that shows as allocated in the template views, but NO WEAPONS IN ANY TEMPLATE.

.

Anet, please change this. I worked hard for legendary items but if this is how it's going to be, I need to shelf them and use Ascended. There is just no way I will be able to keep track of all of this stuff.

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@Kate Soulguard.7132 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:[...] then [...]
then
[...]
then

breathes into a brown paper bag for a few minutes

Hi Ashantara,

Thank you so much for explaining! I really appreciate you taking the time to do so.

.

Is this part is still a bug? I think at least this is still a bug...

1 missing +9 infusion that shows as allocated in the template views, but NO WEAPONS IN ANY TEMPLATE.

.

Anet, please change this. I worked hard for legendary items but if this is how it's going to be, I need to shelf them and use Ascended. There is just no way I will be able to keep track of all of this stuff.

Are you sure that infusion aint shared on another templates armor or accessories?

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@Kate Soulguard.7132 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:[...] then [...]
then
[...]
then

breathes into a brown paper bag for a few minutes

Hi Ashantara,

Thank you so much for explaining! I really appreciate you taking the time to do so.

You're welcome. :) I almost freaked out right after release when I worked on two equipment loadouts on a character with exclusively legendary gear and couldn't figure out what was wrong. :s

@Linken.6345 said:

@Kate Soulguard.7132 said:Is this part is still a bug? I think at least this is still a bug...

1 missing +9 infusion that shows as allocated in the template views, but NO WEAPONS IN ANY TEMPLATE.

Are you sure that infusion aint shared on another templates armor or accessories?

This. What goes for weapons goes for armor and trinkets as well, of course. You likely have said infusion equipped in another loadout on either a piece of armor or a trinket. If nothing else, at least ANet's system doesn't "eat up" any of the upgrades. ;)

Since you can't distinguish between similar upgrades, it is best to start from scratch: remove all upgrades from all loadouts, place them in the bank, start re-equipping the ones that are similar by starting with one and link it in all loadouts where it is required. Only grab an additinoal one if there are none left to link on an item. (And pray for ANet to remove this nonsense "QoL feature" from their system ASAP. :p )

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